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On December 01 2010 07:04 DentThat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 05:22 Zocat wrote:
About Boxer
Chances of TvT in RO64 GSL2: 23/63 = 36%
Chances of TvT in RO64 GSL3: 27/63 = 43%
Getting TvT in both RO64: 15%
It's not really that unlikely.
You are looking at it wrong You need to calculate just how many TvT's there actually were GSL SEASON 2 RO64:There were 24 T match ups, only 4 were TvT. Boxer gets 1. GSL SEASON 3 RO64:There were 22 T match ups, only 2 were TvT. Guess what, Boxer gets it! This goes on and on. There's only a few TvT's, and Boxer always manages to get it
Instead of saying that ppl are wrong or whatnot, tell me how can GOMTV control the result of the games. If they want BoxeR to play TvT, they have to put T exclusively on his side of bracket, which is not the case. After the Ro64, there is a chance that BoxeR might play a Zerg. What you are saying is that GOM also fixed the games which are not true at all.
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On November 30 2010 13:52 Klamity wrote:
The current ratio in TvT is 50% T wins. I think it's an extremely fair matchup.
Thank you for the thoughtful insight.
I want boxer to as far as possible (not win, It is IdrA's chance , i wish) but i think it is lame that he has played so many TvT.
I really like Z vT and think it would be cool if he played that matchup more than one time
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On December 01 2010 07:10 dragonblade369 wrote:
Instead of saying that ppl are wrong or whatnot, tell me how can GOMTV control the result of the games. If they want BoxeR to play TvT, they have to put T exclusively on his side of bracket, which is not the case. After the Ro64, there is a chance that BoxeR might play a Zerg. What you are saying is that GOM also fixed the games which are not true at all.
Brackets are carefully orchestrated by 6 people...
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On December 01 2010 07:04 DentThat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 05:22 Zocat wrote:
About Boxer
Chances of TvT in RO64 GSL2: 23/63 = 36%
Chances of TvT in RO64 GSL3: 27/63 = 43%
Getting TvT in both RO64: 15%
It's not really that unlikely.
You are looking at it wrong You need to calculate just how many TvT's there actually were GSL SEASON 2 RO64:There were 24 T match ups, only 4 were TvT. Boxer gets 1. GSL SEASON 3 RO64:There were 22 T match ups, only 2 were TvT. Guess what, Boxer gets it! This goes on and on. There's only a few TvT's, and Boxer always manages to get it
There are 25 ZvX.
Only 1 ZvR. Monster gets 1. Following your logic Monster was given the Random.
Only 2 ZvZ. Fruitdealer gets 1. Following your logic Fruitdealer was given a ZvZ from them.
In GSL2 0 ZvZ. Fruitdealer therefore get's 100% a ZvZ in RO64 if there is at least one ZvZ.
(Edit: GSL1 clearly doesnt count, because no one knew the favourites back then!)
But ok - let's assume you're correct.
Can you explain the "This goes on and on" part? How do they give Boxer TvT in RO32/16/8/4?
Please explain how they're able to do this.
Please consider the fact, that when you look at the T distribution in GSL2.
A-7 B-7 C-8 D-7.
The same amount of Ts in all brackets.
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On December 01 2010 07:16 DentThat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 07:10 dragonblade369 wrote:
Instead of saying that ppl are wrong or whatnot, tell me how can GOMTV control the result of the games. If they want BoxeR to play TvT, they have to put T exclusively on his side of bracket, which is not the case. After the Ro64, there is a chance that BoxeR might play a Zerg. What you are saying is that GOM also fixed the games which are not true at all. Whenever GOMtv see's the opportunity to place Boxer in a TvT, 9 out of 10, they did. That's a fact. (the only other time was a TvP against cOreZenith in the RO32, Season 2)
But how can they place him in a TvT outside of the Ro64, when the brackets are decided in advance? Do they also fix the games to make sure he gets to play other Terrans in the ro32 and ro16?
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I thought they draw a random bracket ?
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On December 01 2010 07:20 Nimic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 07:16 DentThat wrote:On December 01 2010 07:10 dragonblade369 wrote:
Instead of saying that ppl are wrong or whatnot, tell me how can GOMTV control the result of the games. If they want BoxeR to play TvT, they have to put T exclusively on his side of bracket, which is not the case. After the Ro64, there is a chance that BoxeR might play a Zerg. What you are saying is that GOM also fixed the games which are not true at all. Whenever GOMtv see's the opportunity to place Boxer in a TvT, 9 out of 10, they did. That's a fact. (the only other time was a TvP against cOreZenith in the RO32, Season 2) But how can they place him in a TvT outside of the Ro64, when the brackets are decided in advance? Do they also fix the games to make sure he gets to play other Terrans in the ro32 and ro16?
Yes, they do. I explained in my post that 3 people were in on this, and 1 might have been.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172934¤tpage=17#331
Terious, Chief and Leenock were all paid-off in order to ensure the maximum number of TvTs for Boxer in GSL2.
This is an undisputable fact.
Also, in the groups there were 7 terrans in each group except Boxers, which had 8.
Of those 8 terrans in Boxers group, there were 2 TvTs, so a maximum of 6 terrans could make it through.
That number (6) is equal with 1 other groups, but below one group, which had no TvTs, so 7 Terrans could make it through and above another where 5 could make it. That group had TWO TvT RO64s.
That means the terrans were effectively evenly difivded at the RO64 stage, with 7 or 8 Terrans per group, and 6 or 7 being able to make it through the first round.
Group A:
7 terrans in RO64. 7 can make it through.
7 terrans in RO32, 4 can make it through.
4 terrans in RO16, 2 can make it through.
2 terrans in RO8, 1 can make it through.
Group B:
7 terrans in RO64, 5 can make it through
5 terrans in RO32, 4 can make it through.
4 terrans in RO16, 2 can make it through.
2 terrans in RO8, 1 can make it through.
Group C: (Boxers group)
8 terrans in RO64, 6 can make it through.
6 terrans in RO32, 3 can make it through.
3 terrans in RO16, 2 can make it through.
2 terrans in RO8, 1 can make it through.
Group D:
7 terrans in RO64, 6 can make it through.
6 terrans in RO32, 4 can make it through.
4 terrans in RO16, 2 can make it through.
2 terrans in RO8, 1 can make it through.
So in fact, Boxers group had the lowest chance of TvTs in certain rounds, although not on boxers half of the bracket.
Of the 8 games in the RO16, 7 of them could have ended up being TvT. 7 of 8. And you are saying it's a fix because Boxers was? The only one that could NOT have been a TvT was Nada vs his opponent. Every single other RO16 could have been a TvT, and leading up to that, many RO32 games could also have been TvT.
RO32 TvT possibilities: 9 of 16
RO16 TvT possibilities: 7 of 8
RO8 TvT possibilities: 4 of 4
RO4 TvT possibilities: 2 of 2
Final TvT possibilities: 1 of 1
Amazingly enough, the round with the lowest TvT possibilities, the RO32, is where Boxer didn't play a TvT, he played TvP.
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On December 01 2010 07:16 DentThat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 07:10 dragonblade369 wrote:
Instead of saying that ppl are wrong or whatnot, tell me how can GOMTV control the result of the games. If they want BoxeR to play TvT, they have to put T exclusively on his side of bracket, which is not the case. After the Ro64, there is a chance that BoxeR might play a Zerg. What you are saying is that GOM also fixed the games which are not true at all. Whenever GOMtv see's the opportunity to place Boxer in a TvT, 9 out of 10, they did. That's a fact. (the only other time was a TvP against cOreZenith in the RO32, Season 2)
I see this in almost all sports. However, they still have to compete and win. In the end Boxer still has to play a highly skilled player in the end to win. And he has to play against pro players to get there regardless.
Are you saying its rigged beyond brackets? Or that Boxer doesn't have the skill to handle Zerg or Protoss? If not, they aren't doing anything different. Keep in mind these GSL seasons 1-3 are still seeding for the other seasons. Based on seeding this becomes irrelevant. In fact, you could say that these seasons become irrelevant once the ranking system comes in.
Still, hero or not, he doesn't deserve any special treatment in a competition. But here's the other thing, how likely is it that he was told by GOM they are doing this for him? And if its being done by GOM, is it the decision of their president, or the 6 people who create the brackets without the knowledge of the tournament itself?
If we're saying brackets are set at R64, then GOM has placed him TvT only twice. Not 9/10 times. Everything else was by random chance. You are implying that they rig matches to let Terrans advance so that Boxer plays against Terrans.
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From reading the title I expected some crazy fan assault on Boxer that was prevented by hero body guards etc.
This post doesn't seem to have gotten a lot of attention, but I think the point is valid:
On November 30 2010 13:59 Fenneth wrote:
It's human nature to find patterns and coincidences in random data. I'd suggest holding back a little on the accusations of wide-scale conspiracy based on a few scraps of flimsy data.
With the logic applied in this thread for the maps for example, you could conclude that FruitDealer should have never won GSL1.
Its just the 3rd Season and a really small sample size, don't jump to conclusions.
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On December 01 2010 07:23 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 07:20 Nimic wrote:On December 01 2010 07:16 DentThat wrote:On December 01 2010 07:10 dragonblade369 wrote:
Instead of saying that ppl are wrong or whatnot, tell me how can GOMTV control the result of the games. If they want BoxeR to play TvT, they have to put T exclusively on his side of bracket, which is not the case. After the Ro64, there is a chance that BoxeR might play a Zerg. What you are saying is that GOM also fixed the games which are not true at all. Whenever GOMtv see's the opportunity to place Boxer in a TvT, 9 out of 10, they did. That's a fact. (the only other time was a TvP against cOreZenith in the RO32, Season 2) But how can they place him in a TvT outside of the Ro64, when the brackets are decided in advance? Do they also fix the games to make sure he gets to play other Terrans in the ro32 and ro16? Yes, they do. I explained in my post that 3 people were in on this, and 1 might have been. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172934¤tpage=17#331Terious, Chief and Leenock were all paid-of in order to ensure the maximum number of TvTs for Boxer in GSL2. This is an undisputable fact.
I don't know why you call this undisputable when your own quoted post says "let's assume this is all true" and that the OP made an "idiotic proposition".
But basically yes, this thread, and the OP idea is implying that they are rigging the games. Not rigging the brackets or "protecting" boxer. Its implying they are rigging the game intentionally to the point where people are "taking the fall" to advance certain players. All of the negotiation is done post qualifications however, in a very small window between qualifying and R64. Unless of course, the rigging starts PRE-qualification, which means the plot thickens!
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On December 01 2010 07:29 Avs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2010 07:23 Lonyo wrote:On December 01 2010 07:20 Nimic wrote:On December 01 2010 07:16 DentThat wrote:On December 01 2010 07:10 dragonblade369 wrote:
Instead of saying that ppl are wrong or whatnot, tell me how can GOMTV control the result of the games. If they want BoxeR to play TvT, they have to put T exclusively on his side of bracket, which is not the case. After the Ro64, there is a chance that BoxeR might play a Zerg. What you are saying is that GOM also fixed the games which are not true at all. Whenever GOMtv see's the opportunity to place Boxer in a TvT, 9 out of 10, they did. That's a fact. (the only other time was a TvP against cOreZenith in the RO32, Season 2) But how can they place him in a TvT outside of the Ro64, when the brackets are decided in advance? Do they also fix the games to make sure he gets to play other Terrans in the ro32 and ro16? Yes, they do. I explained in my post that 3 people were in on this, and 1 might have been. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172934¤tpage=17#331Terious, Chief and Leenock were all paid-of in order to ensure the maximum number of TvTs for Boxer in GSL2. This is an undisputable fact. I don't know why you call this undisputable when your own quoted post says "let's assume this is all true" and that the OP made an "idiotic proposition". But basically yes, this thread, and the OP idea is implying that they are rigging the games. Not rigging the brackets or "protecting" boxer. Its implying they are rigging the game intentionally to the point where people are "taking the fall" to advance certain players. All of the negotiation is done post qualifications however, in a very small window between qualifying and R64. Unless of course, the rigging starts PRE-qualification, which means the plot thickens!
I was being silly, pointing out how stupid the OP is, and in fact this entire thread which is based on the OP.
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Well I don't know if there's a big conspiracy behind all of Boxer's TvT but it definitely seems suspicious seeing that he gets so many terran players. Then again even GOM can't plan the matches beyond Ro64, so this is probably unlikely. It would be nice to see boxer play the other MUs as well ^_^
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Gonna repost something I did earlier
People are citing GSL2 as why did Boxer have so many TvTs
Ro64: TvT: If they prepared this, how could they have. By this they wouldnt have known
Ro32: TvP (enough said, this is a protoss, not a terran)
Ro16: TvT (vs loner): Couldve been a TvZ but Loner hung on a thread(almost lost), also couldve been a protoss. The available opponents were : 2 T, 1 p 1 Z
Ro8 TvT( Vs Nada): Couldve been Leenock: if Nada lost (which almost happened). At this stage fromt he other bracket there was 3 Terran, 3 Protoss, and 2 Zerg, any couldve been his Ro8 Fighter
Ro4 TvZ (Vs Nestea the winner)
Is this suspicious?????
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I am sick and tired of people who are absolutely certain that the match-ups are rigged just because they "look fishy". Do some statistical analysis and figure out the percentages and probabilities, then you can be certain. But until you look at it properly, "looks fishy" doesn't cut it.
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On November 30 2010 13:34 PanoRaMa wrote:
What makes you think TvT is his best matchup?
He said it in an interview.
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Seeding is fine. It's done in most significant sports tournaments. It adds importance to season games after a team/player has qualified for the playoffs; without them, a player who has qualified for the tournament might not take his later matches as seriously.
But in good tournaments, seeds are generated by a publicly known algorithm. Moreover, setting up good players against bad is not the same as setting them up with favorable race matchups or maps.
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The idea that Gomtv is rigging brackets to help boxer is such an insult to the players in the tournament. In GSL 2 Loner won 2-1 vs a zerg and a protoss in order to face boxer, and nada had to beat leenock (also 2-1), who's turning out to be one of the best zergs in sc2. People are devaluing their victories by saying that it's a "rigged bracket", and that's just shameful.
And look at the upcoming match-up Jinro vs Moon. If Jinro wins, then it's rigged for TvT. If Moon wins, then it's rigged for a star matchup. Gom can't win. No matter what happens, there will be people complaining and looking for conspiracies.
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Is not statistically significant. Drop it ._.
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Just figured out the numbers:
Ro64 - 29 terrans 28/63 = .444 / .556
Ro32 - 13 terrans 12/31 = .387 / .613
Ro16 - 6 terrans 5/15 = .333 / .667
Ro8 - 4 terrans 3/7 = .429 / .571
Ro4 - 3 terrans 2/3 = .667 / .333
prob of 5 tvt = .016
prob of 4 tvt = .008+.022+.033+.026+.021
= .110
prob of 3 tvt = .011+.016+.044+.013+.035+.052+.010+.027+.041+.032
= .281
prob of at least 3 tvt ~ 41%
Assuming that exactly the same people made it to each round in GSL 2, SlayerS_BoxeR had a 41% chance of encountering at least 3 other terrans. So, the fact that he did? Not at all an indication it was "fixed".
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Brakets are made by gom. Kind of cheap... But it does make for some good entertainment.
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EPT
