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On August 21 2010 19:52 moosh wrote:
LOl goddamn... I have to tech to every unit (banelings, speedlings, infestors, and ultras) and use all their abilities (burrow, fungal growth)... spawn lots of creep... control all the watch towers... out-expand and defend all the expands.... harass... never get supply blocked... get all the upgrades I can for all my units... tech to tier 3 units as quickly as possible
to deal with 1a marines... lulz all day
Now you are just trolling. Doing a select few of those recommendations would let you easily roll over mass marines. Your problem is that you did none of them. I highly suspect if you posted more of your losses against Terran we'd see more of the same macro/micro problems. From what you say, you certainly would have a lot of those to show us?
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I couldn´t download the replay, but I still guess, that he had more than 2 Baracks.
Given the screenshot I also guess he was 2 basing.
Marines only isn´t really a strong playstyle, but an easy one. You also can counter it with something easy.
Simply Speedlings with Banelings in big masses. Everything else is bonus to utterly destroy him.
Especially if he doesn´t have a single Marauder, Marines die like paper planes.
If he doesn´t build anything else, youre fine with just having more lings than him, for which you clearly had the resources. If you accidentally get over 1k Minerals, just build Overlords till you hit 200 Supply, so you don´t have to worry about it later.
It´s not as complicated as people write here to just beat 1a Marines.
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How many of you are actually zerg players? I feel like my rage isn't just from this game (though this was the worst) but a collection of frustrations over this whole period of laddering since release.
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On August 21 2010 20:04 Sevenofnines wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 19:52 moosh wrote:
LOl goddamn... I have to tech to every unit (banelings, speedlings, infestors, and ultras) and use all their abilities (burrow, fungal growth)... spawn lots of creep... control all the watch towers... out-expand and defend all the expands.... harass... never get supply blocked... get all the upgrades I can for all my units... tech to tier 3 units as quickly as possible
to deal with 1a marines... lulz all day Now you are just trolling. Doing a select few of those recommendations would let you easily roll over mass marines. Your problem is that you did none of them. I highly suspect if you posted more of your losses against Terran we'd see more of the same macro/micro problems. From what you say, you certainly would have a lot of those to show us?
No, I tend to play like this. But if you'd play Z you'd understand that we have to play kind of defensively against Terran and that each of their pushes are incredibly difficult to hold off. All my ZvT matches end up with me having to tech to either broodlords or ultras. Our tier two units just... SUCK. Everything melts like butter.
http://rapidshare.com/files/414227981/ZvT_Epic_Ultras.SC2Replay
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On August 21 2010 20:07 Mataza wrote:
I couldn´t download the replay, but I still guess, that he had more than 2 Baracks.
Given the screenshot I also guess he was 2 basing.
Marines only isn´t really a strong playstyle, but an easy one. You also can counter it with something easy.
Simply Speedlings with Banelings in big masses. Everything else is bonus to utterly destroy him.
Especially if he doesn´t have a single Marauder, Marines die like paper planes.
If he doesn´t build anything else, youre fine with just having more lings than him, for which you clearly had the resources. If you accidentally get over 1k Minerals, just build Overlords till you hit 200 Supply, so you don´t have to worry about it later.
It´s not as complicated as people write here to just beat 1a Marines.
http://rapidshare.com/files/414228096/Worst_Game_Ever.SC2Replay
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On August 21 2010 15:21 moosh wrote:
By the way, the guy messaged me afterwards and exclaimed he probably didn't deserve that win. I definitely see where I made mistakes but... so I have to play as good as Check to beat a guy who 1a's marines? That's pretty discouraging.
Unfortunately that's kind of the case. If you post a replay as a zerg you will get critized for not using every mineral and gas you got but really it's exactly like you say you should not have to be check to beat a guy who 1-a marines.
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Seriously... That Zerg in the replay was just beyond awful with his unit control. Keep your units in a ball and attack move, it's not hard. The problem with the Zerg in that game is that every fight he streamed his units in in a big conga line.
Embarrassing.
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"omg marines are T1 ololol" ... medivac support is not. Bling/Sling is 1.5 and is all you need. You can both A-move and you will win. If you add 10% extra control (burrow or take a smaller amount and attack from another direction) you'll win even bigger.
Threads like this make the other ZvT threads look bad. Or good, depending on which ones you've read.
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On August 21 2010 15:06 Muftobration wrote:
I just watched the replay. While what everyone says here is true about being able to counter using speedlings and banelings, it's still a bit absurd that marines + a-move is all that the Terran needs to defeat a Zerg who's not 100% on top of everything.
Top of everything? Buddy this guy is floating 2k+ 2k+ on three bases with unnder 80 food. He probably isn't top of bronze.
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When you were complaining in chat you had the spare minerals and gas for 50(fifty!) banelings. Just attack moving those 50 extra banelings would've been more than enough to win the game.
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On August 21 2010 20:10 moosh wrote:No, I tend to play like this. But if you'd play Z you'd understand that we have to play kind of defensively against Terran and that each of their pushes are incredibly difficult to hold off. All my ZvT matches end up with me having to tech to either broodlords or ultras. Our tier two units just... SUCK. Everything melts like butter. http://rapidshare.com/files/414227981/ZvT_Epic_Ultras.SC2Replay
This replay shows many of the same problems as your OP: resource glutting, supply blocks, lack of creep spreading, throwing units into larger enemy forces, and poor scouting. You managed to win because the Terran player in this case was just as bad in this regard that game. Whereas in the OP replay, the Terran player was better in that regard.
No one here is saying you need to be pro, but most of those things are basic to ALL races. You don't need to be a Zerg to understand you should spend your money. You don't need to be Zerg to understand not to get supply blocked. And so on.
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On August 21 2010 20:20 Jaug wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 15:21 moosh wrote:
By the way, the guy messaged me afterwards and exclaimed he probably didn't deserve that win. I definitely see where I made mistakes but... so I have to play as good as Check to beat a guy who 1a's marines? That's pretty discouraging. Unfortunately that's kind of the case. If you post a replay as a zerg you will get critized for not using every mineral and gas you got but really it's exactly like you say you should not have to be check to beat a guy who 1-a marines. Seriously, don't reinforce this guy's belief that it's because of ZvT that he lost.
Sevenofnines perfectly explained why he lost earlier in the thread and reinforcing his belief that the matchup is imbalanced will help no one, least of all the OP since it will mean instead of trying to improve, he will just become frustrated by playing.
To the OP: As a diamond zerg that regularly gets past the first 3-4 rounds in 512-1024 player tourneys(and with a few wins against sponsored players) I can with confidence tell you that the matchup is faaaar from as unbalanced as you seem to believe.
You are simply playing ZvT the wrong way as you usually don't even need to attack before you have ultras/broods(except for a little harassment). All you have to do is scout the map, kill his push(es) when he tries to attack, and outexpand until you simply walk over him. Trying to go for the throat just because you won a fight in the field is one of the biggest mistakes you can make, not to mention all the other criticism already presented in the thread so far.
Edit: Oh and yea, the picture Dead9 posted also perfectly illustrates what should happen if you had actually produced enough banelings and engaged in the proper situations.
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On August 21 2010 14:38 moosh wrote:Hey guys, so i'm not a bad zerg player. I find I have the most trouble with Terran as do most Z players. But you have to check this out. This guy goes flat out ONLY goes marines and medivac. NOTHING ELSE! I'm on three base, I have the gold, he is just barley expanding, and he keeps wiping out my units. I had the money to tech to ultras, brood lords, whatever. But I thought my baneling, roach, hydra would do best. I mean if I went brood lords, his marines would melt the broodlings, and he could quickly pump vikings. If I went ultras they would just melt to a little stim micro. You HAVE to check this out. It is RIDICULOUS! http://rapidshare.com/files/414191018/Worst_Game_Ever.SC2ReplayThe only thing I thought I could maybe do was some burrow micro with banelings. But there are so many fronts for him to attack from on Oasis. Really, I quit zerg until patch. This is complete and utter bullshit.
A better way to look at it is: I should have won this match. What did I do that made me lose? What can I do better next time. We all fail in execution sometimes. Just play better next game. Its not a balance issue. Losing sucks, but there's another game to play...
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On August 21 2010 15:21 moosh wrote:
By the way, the guy messaged me afterwards and exclaimed he probably didn't deserve that win. I definitely see where I made mistakes but... so I have to play as good as Check to beat a guy who 1a's marines? That's pretty discouraging.
You're so far off the mark it's rediculous
Banelings > marines.
End of story.
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On August 21 2010 15:16 moosh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 15:13 ZaaaaaM wrote:On August 21 2010 14:38 moosh wrote:Hey guys, so i'm not a bad zerg player. I find I have the most trouble with Terran as do most Z players. But you have to check this out. This guy goes flat out ONLY goes marines and medivac. NOTHING ELSE! I'm on three base, I have the gold, he is just barley expanding, and he keeps wiping out my units. I had the money to tech to ultras, brood lords, whatever. But I thought my baneling, roach, hydra would do best. I mean if I went brood lords, his marines would melt the broodlings, and he could quickly pump vikings. If I went ultras they would just melt to a little stim micro. You HAVE to check this out. It is RIDICULOUS!http://rapidshare.com/files/414191018/Worst_Game_Ever.SC2ReplayThe only thing I thought I could maybe do was some burrow micro with banelings. But there are so many fronts for him to attack from on Oasis. Really, I quit zerg until patch. This is complete and utter bullshit. lawl, I wish people used this strat against me. So many units are good against pure marines, blords, ultras, blings and roaches. You're saying "if I went x, y would happen [y=bad]" Pretty bold statements and hard to believe without you showing it. Try to play against the same tactic a few times before making a useless topic. Oh yeah, spend your minerals and larva >.< Ultras? Seriously? I debated that. But I figured with a little stim micro those Ultras would melt. Brood lords? With the starports already out, i'm sure those would have just gotten eaten up by vikings. I had to fend off a lot of attacks just to tech to brood lords. By the time i'm there he can just pump some vikings and all that tech is wasted. And with the lack of cliffs to hide over, marines can just stim, run under brood lords, and boom your dead. Honestly? I thought I WAS going the counter for marines. Speedlings, banelings, roaches. The fact that it wasn't WORKING was what made me so frustrated.
You're probably right about the blords, they're just a bit too fragile and 6 vikings tear em apart. I think ultraling with infestors is your best bet, you can either run in with cracklings from 1 side and ultra's from the other side or use the infestors to keep em in place while the ultras are having a nice meal.
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You begun the game with saying you will probably loose. During the game you say you are loosing. At some point you accused the opponent of using maphacks. Throughout the game you foolishly engaged the opponent with like half your army at a time. 24 minutes into the game the opponent has 9 workers to your 37 and you proceed to proclaim that you'll post this the game on teamliquid like you've lost the game and then you throw the game away.
It reminds me of poker players that blame their losses on bad luck and that the poker site is rigged - a couple of bad beats and they go all-in with a loosing hand. Similarly you say that T is OP and that the opponent is cheating. Its a looser mentality. You like bad poker players, play in a way that will reaffirm your beliefs that you can't win. You need to work on taking responsibility for your results and getting rid of those unhelpful beliefs.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 21 2010 20:19 Dead9 wrote:![[image loading]](http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3695/87724531.png)
There you go.
Switching to Terran won't help you if your play is at this level. Interestingly enough, I think you'd actually be *worse* off because Terran doesn't let you pool larvae and spend them all after you missed a production round.
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If you can't spend 2500 minerals and gas with Zerg, I think your macro problems are going to be much, much worse with Terran. You really need to buckle down and work on macro instead of thinking that a race change will fix a fundamental weakness in your play.
LOl goddamn... I have to tech to every unit (banelings, speedlings, infestors, and ultras) and use all their abilities (burrow, fungal growth)... spawn lots of creep... control all the watch towers... out-expand and defend all the expands.... harass... never get supply blocked... get all the upgrades I can for all my units... tech to tier 3 units as quickly as possible
to deal with 1a marines... lulz all day
No, you do not have to do all that to win against 1A marines. Any one or two of those would probably have been enough. However, those are all things that you failed to do, and you should work on all of them.
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Having played against some 800-900 diamond zergs in my time as terran, They can abuse the shit out of you in some games and make you feel like a red headed step child with harassment and sniping your scv's constant air raids and nydus canals keep you on your toes and your mech army spread all over your base trying to keep up. Zerg versus terran isnt broken it. you lost your game for alot of the previously mentioned reasons that and as soon as you saw you were playing a terran your mind fliped a switch that said "Oh Geez Terrans as "overpowered" and this match up sucks so im not even gunna try. Given how shotty your mechanics looked on the replay im guessing your gold level maybe low plat?
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EPT
