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Braavos36375 Posts
On March 15 2009 15:31 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:28 Hot_Bid wrote:
can some explain why flash 14ccs so much? he's a superior player who doesn't need these risky, stupid build orders to win, especially in TvT. just do a standard, safe build order and let your skills do the work flash, why go for the cheap advantage? its seriously really stupid. I guess its because he knows he has the advantage when it gets to mid game so going for 14cc it already gives him the early economic adv but he hasent 14cc for months, last time i remember was a month ago vs leta and then before thatn vs jd where he got raped with 9pool, its not like where he was 14ccing every third game
obviously we know why he 14ccs, 14cc = economic advantage (duh)
but why does the best terran player on the planet need to risk losing early for a cheap eco advantage? shouldn't the best play even more safe because they'd expect their opponents to allin them? it makes no sense, because the longer the game the more likely flash wins due to his superior skills, so why does he decide to do a ridiculous build like 14cc that effectively destroys his advantage in skills because the opponent can do a build early game that autokills him? it makes absolutely no sense.
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On March 15 2009 15:32 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:29 Avidkeystamper wrote:On March 15 2009 15:28 maareek wrote:On March 15 2009 15:24 Avidkeystamper wrote:
If someone 14CCs, why don't they at least scout, honestly! If you've decided to 14 CC, there's not much point. If they do a build that would make you not want to 14 CC, you'll still be fucked by the time you scout it. It's a build you decide before the game starts, not one that relies on the opponent. If Flash scouted the middle after he finished that supply depot, the game would've been a lot different. If fantasy had gone for a standard build he'd have been way behind. And a late rax, say, 13rax can't beat a proxy rax anyway.
And no way a 14CC can beat a 2 fact, a known HARD counter, yet Light and Flash have both done it. It would've been a 12 rax, and 12 rax's can beat 8 proxy rax.
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OMG BOXER OOV MIDAS YELLOW
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On March 15 2009 15:32 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:30 LosingID8 wrote:On March 15 2009 15:28 Rostam wrote:On March 15 2009 15:25 Hot_Bid wrote:
i love the fanboys who are like "it's a BO loss"
if someone does 14cc and loses constantly with it, you can't possibly say its a "BO loss" when you're up hugely if the build succeeds. 14cc is just a huge gamble, the risk is built into the build, you can't just be like "oh its lucky that the other player tried to keep me honest" lolol
i love it when 14cc or 14nex dies horribly BBS is a huge gamble too, I'm not saying it's luck that Fantasy won but it's not the kind of situation where people can just BBS Flash every game and win by default. He made a calculated risk, Fantasy made a calculated risk, Fantasy's happened to pay off while Flash's fucked him over. People are just pretending it's 2008 and saying Flash needs to stop 14ccing, which is just ridiculous because its really not that bad an idea to throw in once in a while in TvT. But, I mean...it was a BO loss. it wasn't a BBS. it was a center rax which in itself is not that horrible. if you saw fantasy's main, he got gas at fairly standard timing. my guess is that he predicted that there was a very high chance of flash going 14cc so this build would punish him for it. if flash was going standard he would have a nice transition into standard play with earlier rax float scouting. Sorry, doesn't BBS just stand for "Barracks Before Supply"? I dunno, I always kind of assumed that, so if I'm misusing the term then sorry. But that's what I meant if BBS is something else.
LOL BBS= 2 barracks before supply. Barracks, Barracks, Supply see?
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On March 15 2009 15:28 JIJIyO wrote:
When Forgg reaches KTF house.
Forgg: Yo Flash, why didn't you learn after I raped your 14ccs?
See? This is what I say!!
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On March 15 2009 15:33 Lebesgue wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:31 Hot_Bid wrote:
i can't believe people are mad at fantasy for not playing standard when flash did a 14cc and was punished for it. 8 rax ONLY hard counters 14cc, every other build you're behind lol I think lots of people are really disappointed. I, for example, expected an epic TvT from both players (of course I hoped that Flash will win but even if he loses after epic game I wouldn't feel bad). But this way I feel I have been cheated/robbed from a good game.
It's probably a reaction to the 70% of the thread that's just bashing flash for 14ccing
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okay fantasy finish this up! best is so unreliable nowadays
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Did anyone just see that commercial with Rock and Keke? lol...
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United States12607 Posts
On March 15 2009 15:33 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:31 Hot_Bid wrote:
i can't believe people are mad at fantasy for not playing standard when flash did a 14cc and was punished for it. 8 rax ONLY hard counters 14cc, every other build you're behind lol, 8 rax isn't even that risky or cheesy in tvt. This, fantasy knows flash inside and out because they play together so much, was just really smart by fantasy
Yes, this is a good point. Proxy 8rax is actually not uncommon in TvT.
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Flash's SCV micro failed. If he had Bisu's probe micro he might've survived.
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HOLY SHIT I LOVE THIS SONG!!!! <3 Japanese anime op in Korean TV <3333 Blast My Desire <3333 whee~
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Wow that flashback was epic. I man both these teams were star studded.
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Wow, i'd so be afraid to be a progamer if we had to live that close...
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On March 15 2009 15:33 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:32 Rostam wrote:On March 15 2009 15:30 LosingID8 wrote:On March 15 2009 15:28 Rostam wrote:On March 15 2009 15:25 Hot_Bid wrote:
i love the fanboys who are like "it's a BO loss"
if someone does 14cc and loses constantly with it, you can't possibly say its a "BO loss" when you're up hugely if the build succeeds. 14cc is just a huge gamble, the risk is built into the build, you can't just be like "oh its lucky that the other player tried to keep me honest" lolol
i love it when 14cc or 14nex dies horribly BBS is a huge gamble too, I'm not saying it's luck that Fantasy won but it's not the kind of situation where people can just BBS Flash every game and win by default. He made a calculated risk, Fantasy made a calculated risk, Fantasy's happened to pay off while Flash's fucked him over. People are just pretending it's 2008 and saying Flash needs to stop 14ccing, which is just ridiculous because its really not that bad an idea to throw in once in a while in TvT. But, I mean...it was a BO loss. it wasn't a BBS. it was a center rax which in itself is not that horrible. if you saw fantasy's main, he got gas at fairly standard timing. my guess is that he predicted that there was a very high chance of flash going 14cc so this build would punish him for it. if flash was going standard he would have a nice transition into standard play with earlier rax float scouting. Sorry, doesn't BBS just stand for "Barracks Before Supply"? I dunno, I always kind of assumed that, so if I'm misusing the term then sorry. But that's what I meant if BBS is something else. Believe it's Barrack barrack supply.
Jeah BBS is barracks before supply, since barracks means more then one so it cant be only 1, but 2.
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i hate to say this ktf fans, but fantasy has lux's number.
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On March 15 2009 15:36 Samurai- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:33 Roffles wrote:On March 15 2009 15:32 Rostam wrote:On March 15 2009 15:30 LosingID8 wrote:On March 15 2009 15:28 Rostam wrote:On March 15 2009 15:25 Hot_Bid wrote:
i love the fanboys who are like "it's a BO loss"
if someone does 14cc and loses constantly with it, you can't possibly say its a "BO loss" when you're up hugely if the build succeeds. 14cc is just a huge gamble, the risk is built into the build, you can't just be like "oh its lucky that the other player tried to keep me honest" lolol
i love it when 14cc or 14nex dies horribly BBS is a huge gamble too, I'm not saying it's luck that Fantasy won but it's not the kind of situation where people can just BBS Flash every game and win by default. He made a calculated risk, Fantasy made a calculated risk, Fantasy's happened to pay off while Flash's fucked him over. People are just pretending it's 2008 and saying Flash needs to stop 14ccing, which is just ridiculous because its really not that bad an idea to throw in once in a while in TvT. But, I mean...it was a BO loss. it wasn't a BBS. it was a center rax which in itself is not that horrible. if you saw fantasy's main, he got gas at fairly standard timing. my guess is that he predicted that there was a very high chance of flash going 14cc so this build would punish him for it. if flash was going standard he would have a nice transition into standard play with earlier rax float scouting. Sorry, doesn't BBS just stand for "Barracks Before Supply"? I dunno, I always kind of assumed that, so if I'm misusing the term then sorry. But that's what I meant if BBS is something else. Believe it's Barrack barrack supply. Jeah BBS is barracks before supply, since barracks means more then one so it cant be only 1, but 2.
the building is named Barracks, its not a plural.
edit: fuck me i suck suck suck
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On March 15 2009 15:36 Coffee wrote:
i hate to say this ktf fans, but fantasy has lux's number.
We'll see
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On March 15 2009 15:34 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:32 Shikyo wrote:On March 15 2009 15:29 Avidkeystamper wrote:On March 15 2009 15:28 maareek wrote:On March 15 2009 15:24 Avidkeystamper wrote:
If someone 14CCs, why don't they at least scout, honestly! If you've decided to 14 CC, there's not much point. If they do a build that would make you not want to 14 CC, you'll still be fucked by the time you scout it. It's a build you decide before the game starts, not one that relies on the opponent. If Flash scouted the middle after he finished that supply depot, the game would've been a lot different. If fantasy had gone for a standard build he'd have been way behind. And a late rax, say, 13rax can't beat a proxy rax anyway. And no way a 14CC can beat a 2 fact, a known HARD counter, yet Light and Flash have both done it. It would've been a 12 rax, and 12 rax's can beat 8 proxy rax.
No, 2fac isn't a hard counter. 14cc fac port can beat it. 14cc is fine against everything but proxy rax.
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On March 15 2009 15:29 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:28 maareek wrote:On March 15 2009 15:24 Avidkeystamper wrote:
If someone 14CCs, why don't they at least scout, honestly! If you've decided to 14 CC, there's not much point. If they do a build that would make you not want to 14 CC, you'll still be fucked by the time you scout it. It's a build you decide before the game starts, not one that relies on the opponent. If Flash scouted the middle after he finished that supply depot, the game would've been a lot different.
Why would you do that? Scouting after the depot would throw off the timing of his entire build, and the only advantage it would give would be allowing him to see a center of the map proxy. If he's concerned about that, he shouldn't even 14 CC. If you decide to 14 CC, you have already decided your opponent is either not going to proxy, or that you're ok with losing to the proxy.
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EPT
