EPT[MSL] Lost Saga Quarterfinal B - Page 35
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GTR
51630 Posts
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
On February 28 2009 21:52 baubo wrote: LOL. No wonder FS's so pissed off at people who treat TLPD as the bible. I'm pretty sure Jangbi hasn't played Savior in ages. Those must've been some old, old games. do you even read my posts?? I myself said in my first post that the games he played against the good ZvPers were so long ago they are practically irrelevant now.. This was just to underline the fact that there is no valuable evidence pointing to jangbis pvz being that good. Why am I even writing all this, u probably wont read or understand all of it anyway... T_T Edit: Ok for all of you, read both these posts completely or just ignore them, but quoting me out of context is lame as hell. I never said these figures proof Jangbis PvZ sux. I am saying these figures proof that you cant really judge jangbis PvZ against the top zergs in this mu. | ||
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iLoveKT
Philippines3615 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
On February 28 2009 22:00 Shikyo wrote: I'm just utterly confused as to how FS can have watched Luxury's recent ZvPs and still think that JangBi is a clear favorite against him. It's even at best(Byzantium played twice), but I could never see JangBi as the favorite. same here, he must have gotten overexcited seeing jangbi roll over mediocre zergs time and time again.. | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
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iLoveKT
Philippines3615 Posts
I think in a bo5 vs jangbi, lux would be the favorite on paper but you can never underestimate all s-class players like jangbi. they are capable of anything, anytime. just my 2 cents though. | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On February 28 2009 21:56 damenmofa wrote: do you even read my posts?? I myself said in my first post that the games he played against the good ZvPers were so long ago they are practically irrelevant now.. This was just to underline the fact that there is no valuable evidence pointing to jangbis pvz being that good. Why am I even writing all this, u probably wont read or understand all of it anyway... T_T Actually there is. Watch his games. Stop just read the list of his opponents from his TLPD. Edit: Ok for all of you, read both these posts completely or just ignore them, but quoting me out of context is lame as hell. I never said these figures proof Jangbis PvZ sux. I am saying these figures proof that you cant really judge jangbis PvZ against the top zergs in this mu. If you don't want people to misunderstand your posts, stop posting them in a way that causes misunderstandings. You write a post which basically listing Jangbi's stats(most of which are old now that I took a look at the TLPD), what do you expect people to say? It's one thing to think Luxury's ZvP is better than what FS thinks, because Luxury recent performance has been quite impressive given his history. But it's another to discredit Jangbi's PvZ, which is S-Class and rivals any other protoss at the moment. | ||
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D00dles
Cambodia217 Posts
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hazz
United Kingdom570 Posts
On February 28 2009 21:46 damenmofa wrote: to be more precise:  JangBi PvZ Total: 29-18 (61.70%)Impressive Stats you say? Lets look at it a lil closer: vs  YellOw[ArnC]: 8-2vs Orion: 4-1vs Jaedong: 0-2vs sAviOr: 0-2vs Luxury 0-1vs July: never playedvs MuMyung 0-1Sorry but Jangbis PvZ isnt what u think it is... you realise the games against jaedong/savior were from 1 and a half to 2 years ago? they're hardly relevant edit: some other people already said it | ||
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nebffa
Australia776 Posts
Take a look at the games Luxury and Jangbi have been playing lately. WATCH the games. Luxury was pretty cool in his all-kill on KHAN. Since then, has he showed the same blistering control? I'm not entirely sure. Then take a look at Jangbi, has he showed good play over the past month? Yeah I really think he has. He hasn't all-killed but he has done some pretty uber face-powning if you ask a newb like me. Regardless, to call people clear favourites??? Luxury is a pretty good Zerg as Zergs go, and Jangbi is a pretty good Protoss as Protosses go. Don't count anyone out cause at the end of the day, you're going to look like a n00bie when you're wrong  | ||
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ssystem
United Kingdom337 Posts
On February 28 2009 22:33 nebffa wrote: People called Flash the favourite in a lot of things recently but then he got beaten by Piano in Winner's League. People called Savior the favourite in his MSL against Bisu but then he got beaten. So much analysis on statistics when we all need to chill out and take a deep breath. Take a look at the games Luxury and Jangbi have been playing lately. WATCH the games. Luxury was pretty cool in his all-kill on KHAN. Since then, has he showed the same blistering control? I'm not entirely sure. Then take a look at Jangbi, has he showed good play over the past month? Yeah I really think he has. He hasn't all-killed but he has done some pretty uber face-powning if you ask a newb like me. Regardless, to call people clear favourites??? Luxury is a pretty good Zerg as Zergs go, and Jangbi is a pretty good Protoss as Protosses go. Don't count anyone out cause at the end of the day, you're going to look like a n00bie when you're wrong Ah but you can gloat like a mofo when you're right | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On February 28 2009 22:33 nebffa wrote: People called Flash the favourite in a lot of things recently but then he got beaten by Piano in Winner's League. People called Savior the favourite in his MSL against Bisu but then he got beaten. So much analysis on statistics when we all need to chill out and take a deep breath. Take a look at the games Luxury and Jangbi have been playing lately. WATCH the games. Luxury was pretty cool in his all-kill on KHAN. Since then, has he showed the same blistering control? I'm not entirely sure. Then take a look at Jangbi, has he showed good play over the past month? Yeah I really think he has. He hasn't all-killed but he has done some pretty uber face-powning if you ask a newb like me. Regardless, to call people clear favourites??? Luxury is a pretty good Zerg as Zergs go, and Jangbi is a pretty good Protoss as Protosses go. Don't count anyone out cause at the end of the day, you're going to look like a n00bie when you're wrong hardly the people who said flash was a huge favorite were right. the people who said savior was a huge favorite were right. (guess that ones a bit more arguable since bisu had already shown signs of brilliance before that match, but not enough to tip him vs the 80% zvp rapingeverythingonthefaceoftheearth savior) a good prediction is not judged by the outcome, it is judged by what the prediction is founded on. a random newbie who says 'lolol piano gonna rape flash' is not a genius, he made a baseless prediction that would never have been remembered had he been wrong. now if a woongjin member had said 'piano noticed the current tvt tend towards vulture tank and has a really abusive counter build for it, and flash has limited practice time and so wont be prepared for such a designed build, so piano will win' that would be a good prediction, whether piano won or not, because given those circumstances it was likely piano could win and the predicted was founded on good reasoning. just like calling savior over bisu was founded on good logic and jangbi>lux is a good call because jangbi is the better player with a beastly, very solid sound pvz while lux is often reliant on gimmicky or overaggressive builds. as those dont tend to work well vs solid players and jangbi can certainly outplay him, of course jangbi is a heavy favorite. | ||
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Tyxiquale
Australia424 Posts
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
On February 28 2009 22:53 IdrA wrote: hardly the people who said flash was a huge favorite were right. the people who said savior was a huge favorite were right. (guess that ones a bit more arguable since bisu had already shown signs of brilliance before that match, but not enough to tip him vs the 80% zvp rapingeverythingonthefaceoftheearth savior) a good prediction is not judged by the outcome, it is judged by what the prediction is founded on. a random newbie who says 'lolol piano gonna rape flash' is not a genius, he made a baseless prediction that would never have been remembered had he been wrong. now if a woongjin member had said 'piano noticed the current tvt tend towards vulture tank and has a really abusive counter build for it, and flash has limited practice time and so wont be prepared for such a designed build, so piano will win' that would be a good prediction, whether piano won or not, because given those circumstances it was likely piano could win and the predicted was founded on good reasoning. just like calling savior over bisu was founded on good logic and jangbi>lux is a good call because jangbi is the better player with a beastly, very solid sound pvz while lux is often reliant on gimmicky or overaggressive builds. as those dont tend to work well vs solid players and jangbi can certainly outplay him, of course jangbi is a heavy favorite. yeah cus the beastly, solid player always triumphs over the weakling who relies on gimmicky or overaggressive builds. Oh wait... | ||
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Hyperionnn
Turkey4968 Posts
why the hell leta didnt make a bunker for gods sake? (in game 2) | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On February 28 2009 23:01 damenmofa wrote: yeah cus the beastly, solid player always triumphs over the weakling who relies on gimmicky or overaggressive builds. Oh wait... i am not particularly solid. my game sense isnt well enough developed to be considered so. i just tend toward conservative standard styles. jangbi, on the other hand, has game sense flowing out the ass along with the best mechanics of any protoss except maybe bisu. | ||
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amorpheus
Bulgaria2144 Posts
yeah baby  | ||
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
On February 28 2009 23:15 IdrA wrote: i am not particularly solid. my game sense isnt well enough developed to be considered so. i just tend toward conservative standard styles. jangbi, on the other hand, has game sense flowing out the ass along with the best mechanics of any protoss except maybe bisu. wow props for saying that. however, to return to your original post, I think the crux lies within the "good logic". U gave a perfectly fine example of a good prediction and then continued to make a bad one yourself. U start your reasoning with "because jangbi is the better player". Thats just subjective opinion and has nothing to do with logic. Describing his pvz with positive adjectives also is no loigcal reasoning. The only point of some substance I see in your prediction is Luxurys "reliance on gimmicky or overaggressive builds". And in this only point u may have, I disagree with you. It is within Zergs nature to be more reliant on "gimmicky, overaggressive builds" - or simply high(er) risk builds as I would like to call them by an unbiased name - than the other two races . Luxury doesnt rely on those builds more than the majority of other zergs imo. In fact, there are Zergs who have been far more successful who rely much more on such builds (july anyone?). | ||
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KreaGata
United States1702 Posts
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