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United States37500 Posts
Love the "subtle" poke at IdrA when everything he just stated isn't even that off base.
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On February 28 2009 23:29 damenmofa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2009 23:15 IdrA wrote:On February 28 2009 23:01 damenmofa wrote:On February 28 2009 22:53 IdrA wrote:On February 28 2009 22:33 nebffa wrote:People called Flash the favourite in a lot of things recently but then he got beaten by Piano in Winner's League. People called Savior the favourite in his MSL against Bisu but then he got beaten. So much analysis on statistics when we all need to chill out and take a deep breath. Take a look at the games Luxury and Jangbi have been playing lately. WATCH the games. Luxury was pretty cool in his all-kill on KHAN. Since then, has he showed the same blistering control? I'm not entirely sure. Then take a look at Jangbi, has he showed good play over the past month? Yeah I really think he has. He hasn't all-killed but he has done some pretty uber face-powning if you ask a newb like me. Regardless, to call people clear favourites??? Luxury is a pretty good Zerg as Zergs go, and Jangbi is a pretty good Protoss as Protosses go. Don't count anyone out cause at the end of the day, you're going to look like a n00bie when you're wrong  hardly the people who said flash was a huge favorite were right. the people who said savior was a huge favorite were right. (guess that ones a bit more arguable since bisu had already shown signs of brilliance before that match, but not enough to tip him vs the 80% zvp rapingeverythingonthefaceoftheearth savior) a good prediction is not judged by the outcome, it is judged by what the prediction is founded on. a random newbie who says 'lolol piano gonna rape flash' is not a genius, he made a baseless prediction that would never have been remembered had he been wrong. now if a woongjin member had said 'piano noticed the current tvt tend towards vulture tank and has a really abusive counter build for it, and flash has limited practice time and so wont be prepared for such a designed build, so piano will win' that would be a good prediction, whether piano won or not, because given those circumstances it was likely piano could win and the predicted was founded on good reasoning. just like calling savior over bisu was founded on good logic and jangbi>lux is a good call because jangbi is the better player with a beastly, very solid sound pvz while lux is often reliant on gimmicky or overaggressive builds. as those dont tend to work well vs solid players and jangbi can certainly outplay him, of course jangbi is a heavy favorite. yeah cus the beastly, solid player always triumphs over the weakling who relies on gimmicky or overaggressive builds. Oh wait... i am not particularly solid. my game sense isnt well enough developed to be considered so. i just tend toward conservative standard styles. jangbi, on the other hand, has game sense flowing out the ass along with the best mechanics of any protoss except maybe bisu. wow props for saying that. however, to return to your original post, I think the crux lies within the "good logic". U gave a perfectly fine example of a good prediction and then continued to make a bad one yourself. U start your reasoning with "because jangbi is the better player". Thats just subjective opinion and has nothing to do with logic. Describing his pvz with positive adjectives also is no loigcal reasoning. no, saying 'jangbi is the better player' is ok because i went on to explain why he was the better player, and also why he is particularly well suited to luxury. i said he has the better mechanics, which cant really be substantiated any further. he is just a cleaner player. luxury slips up on both macro and micro far more than jangbi does. that can really only be supported by watching their play.
The only point of some substance I see in your prediction is Luxurys "reliance on gimmicky or overaggressive builds". And in this only point u may have, I disagree with you. It is within Zergs nature to be more reliant on "gimmicky, overaggressive builds" or simply high(er) risk builds, as I would like to call them by an unbiased name. Luxury doesnt rely on those builds more than the majority of other zergs. In fact, there are Zergs who have been far more successful who rely much more on such builds (july anyone?).
currently jaedong yarnc effort zero and probably others im forgetting tend much more towards strong management play than luxury. flash himself said that luxurys strength was allin type plays. it has worked in the past for some, and its not doing bad for lux, but just look at the big z's throughout history. you have july as a cheesy player, then you have gorush savior jaedong as almost pure management players. julys the exception there. but i wasnt commenting on the viability of luxury's style in general, just saying that jangbi is well equipped to counter such a style.
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god why is anyone even talking about jangbi here its so obvious that Nada will rape him ez
+ Show Spoiler +
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Damenmofa how about we both bet, if Luxury wins than I get banned for 90 days however if Jangbi wins than you get banned for 90 days?
Edit: we are counting Semis.
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On February 28 2009 23:36 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2009 23:29 damenmofa wrote:On February 28 2009 23:15 IdrA wrote:On February 28 2009 23:01 damenmofa wrote:On February 28 2009 22:53 IdrA wrote:On February 28 2009 22:33 nebffa wrote:People called Flash the favourite in a lot of things recently but then he got beaten by Piano in Winner's League. People called Savior the favourite in his MSL against Bisu but then he got beaten. So much analysis on statistics when we all need to chill out and take a deep breath. Take a look at the games Luxury and Jangbi have been playing lately. WATCH the games. Luxury was pretty cool in his all-kill on KHAN. Since then, has he showed the same blistering control? I'm not entirely sure. Then take a look at Jangbi, has he showed good play over the past month? Yeah I really think he has. He hasn't all-killed but he has done some pretty uber face-powning if you ask a newb like me. Regardless, to call people clear favourites??? Luxury is a pretty good Zerg as Zergs go, and Jangbi is a pretty good Protoss as Protosses go. Don't count anyone out cause at the end of the day, you're going to look like a n00bie when you're wrong hardly the people who said flash was a huge favorite were right. the people who said savior was a huge favorite were right. (guess that ones a bit more arguable since bisu had already shown signs of brilliance before that match, but not enough to tip him vs the 80% zvp rapingeverythingonthefaceoftheearth savior) a good prediction is not judged by the outcome, it is judged by what the prediction is founded on. a random newbie who says 'lolol piano gonna rape flash' is not a genius, he made a baseless prediction that would never have been remembered had he been wrong. now if a woongjin member had said 'piano noticed the current tvt tend towards vulture tank and has a really abusive counter build for it, and flash has limited practice time and so wont be prepared for such a designed build, so piano will win' that would be a good prediction, whether piano won or not, because given those circumstances it was likely piano could win and the predicted was founded on good reasoning. just like calling savior over bisu was founded on good logic and jangbi>lux is a good call because jangbi is the better player with a beastly, very solid sound pvz while lux is often reliant on gimmicky or overaggressive builds. as those dont tend to work well vs solid players and jangbi can certainly outplay him, of course jangbi is a heavy favorite. yeah cus the beastly, solid player always triumphs over the weakling who relies on gimmicky or overaggressive builds. Oh wait... i am not particularly solid. my game sense isnt well enough developed to be considered so. i just tend toward conservative standard styles. jangbi, on the other hand, has game sense flowing out the ass along with the best mechanics of any protoss except maybe bisu. wow props for saying that. however, to return to your original post, I think the crux lies within the "good logic". U gave a perfectly fine example of a good prediction and then continued to make a bad one yourself. U start your reasoning with "because jangbi is the better player". Thats just subjective opinion and has nothing to do with logic. Describing his pvz with positive adjectives also is no loigcal reasoning. no, saying 'jangbi is the better player' is ok because i went on to explain why he was the better player, and also why he is particularly well suited to luxury. i said he has the better mechanics, which cant really be substantiated any further. he is just a cleaner player. luxury slips up on both macro and micro far more than jangbi does. that can really only be supported by watching their play. Show nested quote +
The only point of some substance I see in your prediction is Luxurys "reliance on gimmicky or overaggressive builds". And in this only point u may have, I disagree with you. It is within Zergs nature to be more reliant on "gimmicky, overaggressive builds" or simply high(er) risk builds, as I would like to call them by an unbiased name. Luxury doesnt rely on those builds more than the majority of other zergs. In fact, there are Zergs who have been far more successful who rely much more on such builds (july anyone?).
currently jaedong yarnc effort zero and probably others im forgetting tend much more towards strong management play than luxury. flash himself said that luxurys strength was allin type plays. it has worked in the past for some, and its not doing bad for lux, but just look at the big z's throughout history. you have july as a cheesy player, then you have gorush savior jaedong as almost pure management players. julys the exception there. but i wasnt commenting on the viability of luxury's style in general, just saying that jangbi is well equipped to counter such a style.
Actually, I've always thought that zergs do less gimmicky stuff than other races in general. Mainly because zergs seem to benefit the most from their final tier tech. Heck, once you get through early game all-ins, which EVERY race has an abundance of, all zergs really do is turtle. Both muta harass and lurker tech epitomizes this until hive tech kicks in.
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Jangbi's got a pretty bland style of PvZ. Just the same standard 1/2 sair into zeal archon timing every game. Luxury has a pretty bland style of ZvP.
I don't care how great they are against T, I think it'll be a dissapointing series.
Hoping Nada can at least take some games from Jangbi though..
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On February 28 2009 22:33 nebffa wrote:People called Flash the favourite in a lot of things recently but then he got beaten by Piano in Winner's League. People called Savior the favourite in his MSL against Bisu but then he got beaten. So much analysis on statistics when we all need to chill out and take a deep breath. Take a look at the games Luxury and Jangbi have been playing lately. WATCH the games. Luxury was pretty cool in his all-kill on KHAN. Since then, has he showed the same blistering control? I'm not entirely sure. Then take a look at Jangbi, has he showed good play over the past month? Yeah I really think he has. He hasn't all-killed but he has done some pretty uber face-powning if you ask a newb like me. Regardless, to call people clear favourites??? Luxury is a pretty good Zerg as Zergs go, and Jangbi is a pretty good Protoss as Protosses go. Don't count anyone out cause at the end of the day, you're going to look like a n00bie when you're wrong
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 Luxury seems to be doing pretty well on this star leagues thing. Maybe he will get a good nickname if he wins one of these?
Edit: PS: Leta is not an S class player.
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WOW, I did not expect luxury to win. This a pleasant surprise and will hopefully shut up the Leta fans. As JohnBall said Leta is no where near S-Class, he might be a good A-class player but he won't ever be an S-Class player.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On February 28 2009 23:01 damenmofa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2009 22:53 IdrA wrote:On February 28 2009 22:33 nebffa wrote:People called Flash the favourite in a lot of things recently but then he got beaten by Piano in Winner's League. People called Savior the favourite in his MSL against Bisu but then he got beaten. So much analysis on statistics when we all need to chill out and take a deep breath. Take a look at the games Luxury and Jangbi have been playing lately. WATCH the games. Luxury was pretty cool in his all-kill on KHAN. Since then, has he showed the same blistering control? I'm not entirely sure. Then take a look at Jangbi, has he showed good play over the past month? Yeah I really think he has. He hasn't all-killed but he has done some pretty uber face-powning if you ask a newb like me. Regardless, to call people clear favourites??? Luxury is a pretty good Zerg as Zergs go, and Jangbi is a pretty good Protoss as Protosses go. Don't count anyone out cause at the end of the day, you're going to look like a n00bie when you're wrong hardly the people who said flash was a huge favorite were right. the people who said savior was a huge favorite were right. (guess that ones a bit more arguable since bisu had already shown signs of brilliance before that match, but not enough to tip him vs the 80% zvp rapingeverythingonthefaceoftheearth savior) a good prediction is not judged by the outcome, it is judged by what the prediction is founded on. a random newbie who says 'lolol piano gonna rape flash' is not a genius, he made a baseless prediction that would never have been remembered had he been wrong. now if a woongjin member had said 'piano noticed the current tvt tend towards vulture tank and has a really abusive counter build for it, and flash has limited practice time and so wont be prepared for such a designed build, so piano will win' that would be a good prediction, whether piano won or not, because given those circumstances it was likely piano could win and the predicted was founded on good reasoning. just like calling savior over bisu was founded on good logic and jangbi>lux is a good call because jangbi is the better player with a beastly, very solid sound pvz while lux is often reliant on gimmicky or overaggressive builds. as those dont tend to work well vs solid players and jangbi can certainly outplay him, of course jangbi is a heavy favorite. yeah cus the beastly, solid player always triumphs over the weakling who relies on gimmicky or overaggressive builds. Oh wait...
...are you trying to get banned?
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nice one luxury
this guy need more attention
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On March 01 2009 00:55 Solidus_315 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2009 22:33 nebffa wrote:People called Flash the favourite in a lot of things recently but then he got beaten by Piano in Winner's League. People called Savior the favourite in his MSL against Bisu but then he got beaten. So much analysis on statistics when we all need to chill out and take a deep breath. Take a look at the games Luxury and Jangbi have been playing lately. WATCH the games. Luxury was pretty cool in his all-kill on KHAN. Since then, has he showed the same blistering control? I'm not entirely sure. Then take a look at Jangbi, has he showed good play over the past month? Yeah I really think he has. He hasn't all-killed but he has done some pretty uber face-powning if you ask a newb like me. Regardless, to call people clear favourites??? Luxury is a pretty good Zerg as Zergs go, and Jangbi is a pretty good Protoss as Protosses go. Don't count anyone out cause at the end of the day, you're going to look like a n00bie when you're wrong
I think he means the GOM TV famous 3-0, not the group game from this season.
But if you bolded for another reason, dw  .
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AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
OMG LUX GOGOOGOGOGOGOG
on a side note
wtf Leta?
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How did Leta lose G4 except by not defending against the mutas well enough?
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JIJIyO
Canada1957 Posts
On February 28 2009 20:55 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
okay, hold on
people here seriously think Jangbi isn't a MASSIVE favourite over Luxury in a series? What the fuck?
You used to be a Jangbi hater. What happened to you 
Anyways, I'm hoping for a Lux vs Nada finals. Pleaseeeeee make this happen. Since Savior is out Lux deserves a title, or Nada getting one for the sake of old school players.
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I was tired of all the Leta hype. Glad Lux took him down.
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Simple.. Jangbi= better player, Jangbi PvZ= okay/somewhere between good and average, Luxury's ZvP=average at best, thus it is easy to see why Jangbi is the favorite. And as other's point out Jangbi has been hot lately, well hes been hot for like a year now, and Luxury eh..not really but I guess hes still in both starleagues, but I guess its easier when you dont have to carry a team (poor Flash), which coincidentally is what Jangbi is doing these days, since FBH is slumping, and Stork concentrating on his starleague matches.
I went off on a tangent but Id predict 3-1 for Jangbi, or Nada, or whoever the hell luxury is playing next.
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Lux vs Zero could actually be a good series. You never know what you're getting into with a zvz, but zero has shown strength in that MU recently.
I expect Jangbi would walk all over either player though, if he makes it to the finals.
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EPT
