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I was about as wrong as it gets when thinking Rain was favored :D
Impressive, impressive play by Light.
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Karma's a bitch. Rain got the lucky breaks in the opening against Soma, and today Lady Luck just spat in his face. Mainly watched G1 and G2. Didn't seem like Rain played that badly. Light was just better, and yes, was luckier with the map spawns and scouting. Even without lucky breaks, Light would've still won but we would've all gotten a closer series. Probably the final scoreline is rather misleading and unfair towards Rain.
Not good enough to comment about the maps and balance. But based on Light's TvP games against both Bisu and Rain, the current state of the matchup just seems brutal for Protoss. Protoss has to take the initiative and make all the risky moves to stop the Terran macro machine. I don't even think Light has hit the godlike peak of Flash - yet he's still owning. Probably a dirtier player like mini is the perfect foil against Terran. Or a miracle man like Jangbi who can play from behind and has the clutch factor. Rain has shown signs of mixing things up this season, so maybe he can still go up a few gears.
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On April 09 2022 22:28 RKC wrote:
Karma's a bitch. Rain got the lucky breaks in the opening against Soma, and today Lady Luck just spat in his face. Mainly watched G1 and G2. Didn't seem like Rain played that badly. Light was just better, and yes, was luckier with the map spawns and scouting. Even without lucky breaks, Light would've still won but we would've all gotten a closer series. Probably the final scoreline is rather misleading and unfair towards Rain.
Not good enough to comment about the maps and balance. But based on Light's TvP games against both Bisu and Rain, the current state of the matchup just seems brutal for Protoss. Protoss has to take the initiative and make all the risky moves to stop the Terran macro machine. I don't even think Light has hit the godlike peak of Flash - yet he's still owning. Probably a dirtier player like mini is the perfect foil against Terran. Or a miracle man like Jangbi who can play from behind and has the clutch factor. Rain has shown signs of mixing things up this season, so maybe he can still go up a few gears.
Its only Light thats currently bashing protoss. Other terrans are doing very poorly. Online, Rush is doing good in tvz and JyJ has okay record against toss. And the rest, well: http://eloboard.com/men/bbs/board.php?bo_table=rank_list
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that was disappointing. in asl and kcm i see terran dominating on eclipse but all the casters being terran players they always complain about that map. thats really my only complaint about nyoken and scan they have some big blinders on
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This is where rain got exposed for having been out of the scene too long. Too many casuals thought rain was the best player when he just opened with 12 nexus vs Soma 4x and got lucky. Casuals don't know how big of an advantage 12 nexus is vs zerg in upper echelons of the progaming level. Pros try everything to get ahead and that leads to victory in almost all cases.
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On April 09 2022 23:19 Shinokuki wrote:
This is where rain got exposed for having been out of the scene too long. Too many casuals thought rain was the best player when he just opened with 12 nexus vs Soma 4x and got lucky. Casuals don't know how big of an advantage 12 nexus is vs zerg in upper echelons of the progaming level. Pros try everything to get ahead and that leads to victory in almost all cases.
soma started going 9 pool to stop 12 nexus, i am pretty sure he only got 12 nexus in 2 games
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On April 09 2022 23:19 Shinokuki wrote:
This is where rain got exposed for having been out of the scene too long. Too many casuals thought rain was the best player when he just opened with 12 nexus vs Soma 4x and got lucky. Casuals don't know how big of an advantage 12 nexus is vs zerg in upper echelons of the progaming level. Pros try everything to get ahead and that leads to victory in almost all cases.
It wasn't 4x. He went 12 Nexus first 3 games, won 2-1. Then went Forge expand last 3 games, still won 2-1.
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On April 09 2022 23:19 Shinokuki wrote:
This is where rain got exposed for having been out of the scene too long. Too many casuals thought rain was the best player when he just opened with 12 nexus vs Soma 4x and got lucky. Casuals don't know how big of an advantage 12 nexus is vs zerg in upper echelons of the progaming level. Pros try everything to get ahead and that leads to victory in almost all cases.
Don't think there were that many people claiming Rain to be favorite for the title against Light. Everyone that knows his history is aware that he has had major failings against Terran before in big series and that it's his weakest match-up.
It was perfectly reasonable to think Rain would make it a series because of the previous games where he was able to mind-game other pros towards a victory. Today he tried to play conventional for today's meta and got blasted out of this realm.
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On April 09 2022 23:09 barcodejester wrote:
that was disappointing. in asl and kcm i see terran dominating on eclipse but all the casters being terran players they always complain about that map. thats really my only complaint about nyoken and scan they have some big blinders on
Well, as a viewer you have to filter some of this stuff too. And since most casters in BW are Terran of course you will get some bias thrown in in there.
And it's worth mentioning that the way pro players play these maps is different from what usually happens on ladder where Terrans indeed do get cheesed a lot on Eclipse for example.
At the highest level the most you get is an eco-cheese and that's a whole different world altogether, so the margins are finer and the sole purpose is to get an eco-lead and then transition into a standard build.
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Looks like people on this webside will never be satisfied with casters.
Klazart quit because he kept being flamed and parodied here.
The others like diggity, moletrap etc was bad because they had no knowledge of the game.
Tasteless has apparently turned to shit because he isnt as active as he once were, Artosis is bad because he doesnt have the knowledge some people think he should have, and now that we have an actual progamer commentating, thats bad too because of some "bias" people seem to think he has.
All under the excuse as "constructive critisism" by people who doesnt even want to watch their casting.
Its never good enough.
Maby just STFU and be thankfull people like Scan and Nyoken are keeping this scene alive, and realise that your "constructive critisism" isnt wanted, and is just an excuse to stirr up some shit.
Neither is this the thread for it since its the ASL finals thread, not a thread about the commentaters.
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How the hell did Light win game4? Holy crap that's an epic game....
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On April 09 2022 22:00 whaski wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2022 20:51 LaStScan wrote:On April 09 2022 20:21 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:50 Ikirouta wrote:On April 09 2022 19:37 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:28 oxKnu wrote:
I completely disagree with what Scan is saying. Revolver is a perfectly fine map for Terran.
Only some spawn configurations + scout timings can be troublesome but that's always a possibility on other 4p maps as well. Scan has been a disgrace this season with his Terran bias. It's like, he's literally appreciating Terran all game, blaming the map which are supposed to be a balanced and saying nothing about the maps which areclearly Terran favored. Feels bad for Nyoken trying to balance the act. I no longer watch Starcast TV stream anymore. Even Artosis the whiner has been professional in his casting and doesn't let his bias slip in. idk why you complain, just don't watch it if you don't like it, why do you also have to cry about it lmao I literally said I no longer watch StarcastTV anymore lmao. As for crying, I just stated my opinion about his cast when someone brought up a somewhat relevant info. That's literally what everyone's doing on the internet. Crying would be me making a new thread about it. Likewise I can say if you don't like my post dont read or dont reply. Why cry? See how ridiculous your response now? Picking a single moment of my sentence doesn't mean I'm being biased for terran. There's literally no terran players who want to play on metaverse because there are 3 different level of floor(main is 3rd, nat is 2nd, 3rd base is 1st floor). Multiple of terrains with high and low grounds do not support terran for any of timing attack to execute any location 12 nexus with carrier build easily. It's just simply the map did not support for JyJ + Bisu with 0 mistake synergize on that map. Terran simply has to aim for protoss's mistakes to take some chance. So That's why I said JyJ did nothing wrong. I've said this numerous times I don't root for anyone when I do the commentary. I only talk about FACTs and what's out there. I compliment what the player did well/bad in the game. You close your ears all the time and hear ONLY what you want. Please don't talk like you know everything. + Nyoken and I don't get paid to do the ASL cast either. If you don't like our passion + commentary work, that's how you're killing the sc community. You should not care about comments like that. To TMwhatevernameis, It was clearly reflected within player predictions, that most of pros think these maps are terrible for tvp just as Scan argued. Or maybe you know better than Scan and Soulkey perhaps who was very vocal on his stream about maps being rigged towards protoss in pvt.
Yeah?
So rigged that the PvT win rate on Allegro and Vermeer are 44.6 and 39.2%?
That the go-to maps for Protoss to pick, Eclipse and Revolver, have 48.7 and 47%? Not so P favored eh?
I'm surprised that Monopoly is 47.3% though, but maybe that's because not many PvT on that map go to late game.
Only maps which are statiscally positive for Protoss are Butter (50.5%) and Metaverse (52.5%) but with small sample size those small margins can swing the opposite way easily.
The reality is the so-called Protoss maps are somewhat balanced or even slightly Terran favored, while the maps that Terrans pick are just hugely in favor of them.
Also let's not play the appeal to authority fallacy card here because if that's the case I'm sure Best and Mini may have something to say.
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If Butter ends up getting played as much as Eclipse has it will have historic lows as far as 2p maps go in PvT winrate. That map is like a cut-in-half Shakuras Temple with no regard for Protoss life.
A complete over-haul in map design would do the current state of BW a world of good.
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On April 10 2022 00:47 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2022 22:00 whaski wrote:On April 09 2022 20:51 LaStScan wrote:On April 09 2022 20:21 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:50 Ikirouta wrote:On April 09 2022 19:37 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:28 oxKnu wrote:
I completely disagree with what Scan is saying. Revolver is a perfectly fine map for Terran.
Only some spawn configurations + scout timings can be troublesome but that's always a possibility on other 4p maps as well. Scan has been a disgrace this season with his Terran bias. It's like, he's literally appreciating Terran all game, blaming the map which are supposed to be a balanced and saying nothing about the maps which areclearly Terran favored. Feels bad for Nyoken trying to balance the act. I no longer watch Starcast TV stream anymore. Even Artosis the whiner has been professional in his casting and doesn't let his bias slip in. idk why you complain, just don't watch it if you don't like it, why do you also have to cry about it lmao I literally said I no longer watch StarcastTV anymore lmao. As for crying, I just stated my opinion about his cast when someone brought up a somewhat relevant info. That's literally what everyone's doing on the internet. Crying would be me making a new thread about it. Likewise I can say if you don't like my post dont read or dont reply. Why cry? See how ridiculous your response now? Picking a single moment of my sentence doesn't mean I'm being biased for terran. There's literally no terran players who want to play on metaverse because there are 3 different level of floor(main is 3rd, nat is 2nd, 3rd base is 1st floor). Multiple of terrains with high and low grounds do not support terran for any of timing attack to execute any location 12 nexus with carrier build easily. It's just simply the map did not support for JyJ + Bisu with 0 mistake synergize on that map. Terran simply has to aim for protoss's mistakes to take some chance. So That's why I said JyJ did nothing wrong. I've said this numerous times I don't root for anyone when I do the commentary. I only talk about FACTs and what's out there. I compliment what the player did well/bad in the game. You close your ears all the time and hear ONLY what you want. Please don't talk like you know everything. + Nyoken and I don't get paid to do the ASL cast either. If you don't like our passion + commentary work, that's how you're killing the sc community. You should not care about comments like that. To TMwhatevernameis, It was clearly reflected within player predictions, that most of pros think these maps are terrible for tvp just as Scan argued. Or maybe you know better than Scan and Soulkey perhaps who was very vocal on his stream about maps being rigged towards protoss in pvt. Yeah? So rigged that the PvT win rate on Allegro and Vermeer are 44.6 and 39.2%? That the go-to maps for Protoss to pick, Eclipse and Revolver, have 48.7 and 47%? Not so P favored eh? I'm surprised that Monopoly is 47.3% though, but maybe that's because not many PvT on that map go to late game. Only maps which are statiscally positive for Protoss are Butter (50.5%) and Metaverse (52.5%) but with small sample size those small margins can swing the opposite way easily. The reality is the so-called Protoss maps are somewhat balanced or even slightly Terran favored, while the maps that Terrans pick are just hugely in favor of them. Also let's not play the appeal to authority fallacy card here because if that's the case I'm sure Best and Mini may have something to say.
So what? Scan has right to have his opinnion as much as Best and Mini. You can watch and translate what Mini said during Bisu vs Light or Rain that matter. And are you serious, no terran pro predicted that Light would win. And while it is not certain, those players practiced with Rain and got trashed. Korean community was certain that Rain would win. Yeah surely you know better than them how this game works hahaha.
And for that, everyone was bashing Light when he switched to protoss and kept losing and losing. Surely he has not evolved as a player but maps are tesagi, terran is tesagi and protoss "is at disadvantage" shees.
Edit, I am just so tired of this crap, same thing when Last sweeped Jaedong, "maps are tesagi, casters terran biased, terran imba" blah blah. Its just so great, when zerg beats protoss on map like lunar colony or when terran loses on third world.
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On April 10 2022 01:52 whaski wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2022 00:47 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 22:00 whaski wrote:On April 09 2022 20:51 LaStScan wrote:On April 09 2022 20:21 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:50 Ikirouta wrote:On April 09 2022 19:37 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:28 oxKnu wrote:
I completely disagree with what Scan is saying. Revolver is a perfectly fine map for Terran.
Only some spawn configurations + scout timings can be troublesome but that's always a possibility on other 4p maps as well. Scan has been a disgrace this season with his Terran bias. It's like, he's literally appreciating Terran all game, blaming the map which are supposed to be a balanced and saying nothing about the maps which areclearly Terran favored. Feels bad for Nyoken trying to balance the act. I no longer watch Starcast TV stream anymore. Even Artosis the whiner has been professional in his casting and doesn't let his bias slip in. idk why you complain, just don't watch it if you don't like it, why do you also have to cry about it lmao I literally said I no longer watch StarcastTV anymore lmao. As for crying, I just stated my opinion about his cast when someone brought up a somewhat relevant info. That's literally what everyone's doing on the internet. Crying would be me making a new thread about it. Likewise I can say if you don't like my post dont read or dont reply. Why cry? See how ridiculous your response now? Picking a single moment of my sentence doesn't mean I'm being biased for terran. There's literally no terran players who want to play on metaverse because there are 3 different level of floor(main is 3rd, nat is 2nd, 3rd base is 1st floor). Multiple of terrains with high and low grounds do not support terran for any of timing attack to execute any location 12 nexus with carrier build easily. It's just simply the map did not support for JyJ + Bisu with 0 mistake synergize on that map. Terran simply has to aim for protoss's mistakes to take some chance. So That's why I said JyJ did nothing wrong. I've said this numerous times I don't root for anyone when I do the commentary. I only talk about FACTs and what's out there. I compliment what the player did well/bad in the game. You close your ears all the time and hear ONLY what you want. Please don't talk like you know everything. + Nyoken and I don't get paid to do the ASL cast either. If you don't like our passion + commentary work, that's how you're killing the sc community. You should not care about comments like that. To TMwhatevernameis, It was clearly reflected within player predictions, that most of pros think these maps are terrible for tvp just as Scan argued. Or maybe you know better than Scan and Soulkey perhaps who was very vocal on his stream about maps being rigged towards protoss in pvt. Yeah? So rigged that the PvT win rate on Allegro and Vermeer are 44.6 and 39.2%? That the go-to maps for Protoss to pick, Eclipse and Revolver, have 48.7 and 47%? Not so P favored eh? I'm surprised that Monopoly is 47.3% though, but maybe that's because not many PvT on that map go to late game. Only maps which are statiscally positive for Protoss are Butter (50.5%) and Metaverse (52.5%) but with small sample size those small margins can swing the opposite way easily. The reality is the so-called Protoss maps are somewhat balanced or even slightly Terran favored, while the maps that Terrans pick are just hugely in favor of them. Also let's not play the appeal to authority fallacy card here because if that's the case I'm sure Best and Mini may have something to say. So what? Scan has right to have his opinnion as much as Best and Mini. You can watch and translate what Mini said during Bisu vs Light or Rain that matter. And are you serious, no terran pro predicted that Light would win. And while it is not certain, those players practiced with Rain and got trashed. Korean community was certain that Rain would win. Yeah surely you know better than them how this game works hahaha. And for that, everyone was bashing Light when he switched to protoss and kept losing and losing. Surely he has not evolved as a player but maps are tesagi, terran is tesagi and protoss "is at disadvantage" shees. Edit, I am just so tired of this crap, same thing when Last sweeped Jaedong, "maps are tesagi, casters terran biased, terran imba" blah blah. Its just so great, when zerg beats protoss on map like lunar colony or when terran loses on third world.
Lmao who said anything about Light or Rain or Tesagi that you had to bring that up. You must be very insecure about Terran-related matters huh? Even I myself always said Light is the best player skillwise.
And I don't know how you got that weird idea of players prediction being fully indicative of map balance. So, nothing to do with luck, form and the players themselves eh? Nothing to do with the Koreans believing in the champion pedigree of Rain especially after the semi (just like they were believing in Soma before that), and Light's tendency to underperform? No it has to be about maps lol.
But let's not bring the topic too far. The original matter is about Scan's bias in commentary. Go see the JYJ vs Bisu vods on youtube and see how many people also share my impression, that Scan himself had to give an explanation. If you want to dispute that, try to analyze how JYJ "did nothing wrong" and "the map is wrong" in that game.
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On April 10 2022 02:38 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2022 01:52 whaski wrote:On April 10 2022 00:47 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 22:00 whaski wrote:On April 09 2022 20:51 LaStScan wrote:On April 09 2022 20:21 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:50 Ikirouta wrote:On April 09 2022 19:37 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:28 oxKnu wrote:
I completely disagree with what Scan is saying. Revolver is a perfectly fine map for Terran.
Only some spawn configurations + scout timings can be troublesome but that's always a possibility on other 4p maps as well. Scan has been a disgrace this season with his Terran bias. It's like, he's literally appreciating Terran all game, blaming the map which are supposed to be a balanced and saying nothing about the maps which areclearly Terran favored. Feels bad for Nyoken trying to balance the act. I no longer watch Starcast TV stream anymore. Even Artosis the whiner has been professional in his casting and doesn't let his bias slip in. idk why you complain, just don't watch it if you don't like it, why do you also have to cry about it lmao I literally said I no longer watch StarcastTV anymore lmao. As for crying, I just stated my opinion about his cast when someone brought up a somewhat relevant info. That's literally what everyone's doing on the internet. Crying would be me making a new thread about it. Likewise I can say if you don't like my post dont read or dont reply. Why cry? See how ridiculous your response now? Picking a single moment of my sentence doesn't mean I'm being biased for terran. There's literally no terran players who want to play on metaverse because there are 3 different level of floor(main is 3rd, nat is 2nd, 3rd base is 1st floor). Multiple of terrains with high and low grounds do not support terran for any of timing attack to execute any location 12 nexus with carrier build easily. It's just simply the map did not support for JyJ + Bisu with 0 mistake synergize on that map. Terran simply has to aim for protoss's mistakes to take some chance. So That's why I said JyJ did nothing wrong. I've said this numerous times I don't root for anyone when I do the commentary. I only talk about FACTs and what's out there. I compliment what the player did well/bad in the game. You close your ears all the time and hear ONLY what you want. Please don't talk like you know everything. + Nyoken and I don't get paid to do the ASL cast either. If you don't like our passion + commentary work, that's how you're killing the sc community. You should not care about comments like that. To TMwhatevernameis, It was clearly reflected within player predictions, that most of pros think these maps are terrible for tvp just as Scan argued. Or maybe you know better than Scan and Soulkey perhaps who was very vocal on his stream about maps being rigged towards protoss in pvt. Yeah? So rigged that the PvT win rate on Allegro and Vermeer are 44.6 and 39.2%? That the go-to maps for Protoss to pick, Eclipse and Revolver, have 48.7 and 47%? Not so P favored eh? I'm surprised that Monopoly is 47.3% though, but maybe that's because not many PvT on that map go to late game. Only maps which are statiscally positive for Protoss are Butter (50.5%) and Metaverse (52.5%) but with small sample size those small margins can swing the opposite way easily. The reality is the so-called Protoss maps are somewhat balanced or even slightly Terran favored, while the maps that Terrans pick are just hugely in favor of them. Also let's not play the appeal to authority fallacy card here because if that's the case I'm sure Best and Mini may have something to say. So what? Scan has right to have his opinnion as much as Best and Mini. You can watch and translate what Mini said during Bisu vs Light or Rain that matter. And are you serious, no terran pro predicted that Light would win. And while it is not certain, those players practiced with Rain and got trashed. Korean community was certain that Rain would win. Yeah surely you know better than them how this game works hahaha. And for that, everyone was bashing Light when he switched to protoss and kept losing and losing. Surely he has not evolved as a player but maps are tesagi, terran is tesagi and protoss "is at disadvantage" shees. Edit, I am just so tired of this crap, same thing when Last sweeped Jaedong, "maps are tesagi, casters terran biased, terran imba" blah blah. Its just so great, when zerg beats protoss on map like lunar colony or when terran loses on third world. Lmao who said anything about Light or Rain or Tesagi that you had to bring that up. You must be very insecure about Terran-related matters huh? Even I myself always said Light is the best player skillwise. And I don't know how you got that weird idea of players prediction being fully indicative of map balance. So, nothing to do with luck, form and the players themselves eh? Nothing to do with the Koreans believing in the champion pedigree of Rain especially after the semi (just like they were believing in Soma before that), and Light's tendency to underperform? No it has to be about maps lol. But let's not bring the topic too far. The original matter is about Scan's bias in commentary. Go see the JYJ vs Bisu vods on youtube and see how many people also share my impression, that Scan himself had to give an explanation. If you want to dispute that, try to analyze how JYJ "did nothing wrong" and "the map is wrong" in that game.
Scan is a terran player. What is wrong with the biase? He also happened to be extremely skilled (pro lvl) And proly faces many problems with that specific map.He speak koreans so im sure he got the same feedback from others.That is his opinion ofc.I dont see nothing wrong with it.If you disagree you are free to show stats or some way to explain why you dont agree with that. Instead you are acting like a weirdo and btching about his cast cuz of one specific game ? I still respect you dont like his cast. But the btching is not needed.
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Btw I said it last time with light vs Bisu. It seems Light solved TvP .
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Unfortunate for Rain... Light really just is too solid. He totally deserves the win (also grats on his marriage lol)
This was a fun and great ASL overall. Return of Jaedong/Rain/Bisu, A few super tight Ro8 series, good semis and balance of races. Crazy to think all 4 seeds didn't make it to re-seeding. The finals having an in-person crowd was awesome to see too (even selling out within minutes according to Scan).
My personal highlights this season were Soulkey vs Mong on Vermeer (Ro24 Group F), Rain vs Soulkey in Ro8, and JYJ vs Bisu vs in Ro8.
On April 09 2022 21:32 Sirris wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2022 20:19 Ikirouta wrote:
Thanks to Scan + Nyoken for another great season of casting! I agree  I really hope they keep doing it.
I really appreciate the high level insight Scan and Nyoken bring to ASL. It's really allowed me to enjoy the casts on another level <3 You two (and the StarcastTV team) really stepped up when it seemed like ASL English cast was going away and definitely raised my expectations of casting!
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On April 10 2022 02:51 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2022 02:38 TMNT wrote:On April 10 2022 01:52 whaski wrote:On April 10 2022 00:47 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 22:00 whaski wrote:On April 09 2022 20:51 LaStScan wrote:On April 09 2022 20:21 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:50 Ikirouta wrote:On April 09 2022 19:37 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:28 oxKnu wrote:
I completely disagree with what Scan is saying. Revolver is a perfectly fine map for Terran.
Only some spawn configurations + scout timings can be troublesome but that's always a possibility on other 4p maps as well. Scan has been a disgrace this season with his Terran bias. It's like, he's literally appreciating Terran all game, blaming the map which are supposed to be a balanced and saying nothing about the maps which areclearly Terran favored. Feels bad for Nyoken trying to balance the act. I no longer watch Starcast TV stream anymore. Even Artosis the whiner has been professional in his casting and doesn't let his bias slip in. idk why you complain, just don't watch it if you don't like it, why do you also have to cry about it lmao I literally said I no longer watch StarcastTV anymore lmao. As for crying, I just stated my opinion about his cast when someone brought up a somewhat relevant info. That's literally what everyone's doing on the internet. Crying would be me making a new thread about it. Likewise I can say if you don't like my post dont read or dont reply. Why cry? See how ridiculous your response now? Picking a single moment of my sentence doesn't mean I'm being biased for terran. There's literally no terran players who want to play on metaverse because there are 3 different level of floor(main is 3rd, nat is 2nd, 3rd base is 1st floor). Multiple of terrains with high and low grounds do not support terran for any of timing attack to execute any location 12 nexus with carrier build easily. It's just simply the map did not support for JyJ + Bisu with 0 mistake synergize on that map. Terran simply has to aim for protoss's mistakes to take some chance. So That's why I said JyJ did nothing wrong. I've said this numerous times I don't root for anyone when I do the commentary. I only talk about FACTs and what's out there. I compliment what the player did well/bad in the game. You close your ears all the time and hear ONLY what you want. Please don't talk like you know everything. + Nyoken and I don't get paid to do the ASL cast either. If you don't like our passion + commentary work, that's how you're killing the sc community. You should not care about comments like that. To TMwhatevernameis, It was clearly reflected within player predictions, that most of pros think these maps are terrible for tvp just as Scan argued. Or maybe you know better than Scan and Soulkey perhaps who was very vocal on his stream about maps being rigged towards protoss in pvt. Yeah? So rigged that the PvT win rate on Allegro and Vermeer are 44.6 and 39.2%? That the go-to maps for Protoss to pick, Eclipse and Revolver, have 48.7 and 47%? Not so P favored eh? I'm surprised that Monopoly is 47.3% though, but maybe that's because not many PvT on that map go to late game. Only maps which are statiscally positive for Protoss are Butter (50.5%) and Metaverse (52.5%) but with small sample size those small margins can swing the opposite way easily. The reality is the so-called Protoss maps are somewhat balanced or even slightly Terran favored, while the maps that Terrans pick are just hugely in favor of them. Also let's not play the appeal to authority fallacy card here because if that's the case I'm sure Best and Mini may have something to say. So what? Scan has right to have his opinnion as much as Best and Mini. You can watch and translate what Mini said during Bisu vs Light or Rain that matter. And are you serious, no terran pro predicted that Light would win. And while it is not certain, those players practiced with Rain and got trashed. Korean community was certain that Rain would win. Yeah surely you know better than them how this game works hahaha. And for that, everyone was bashing Light when he switched to protoss and kept losing and losing. Surely he has not evolved as a player but maps are tesagi, terran is tesagi and protoss "is at disadvantage" shees. Edit, I am just so tired of this crap, same thing when Last sweeped Jaedong, "maps are tesagi, casters terran biased, terran imba" blah blah. Its just so great, when zerg beats protoss on map like lunar colony or when terran loses on third world. Lmao who said anything about Light or Rain or Tesagi that you had to bring that up. You must be very insecure about Terran-related matters huh? Even I myself always said Light is the best player skillwise. And I don't know how you got that weird idea of players prediction being fully indicative of map balance. So, nothing to do with luck, form and the players themselves eh? Nothing to do with the Koreans believing in the champion pedigree of Rain especially after the semi (just like they were believing in Soma before that), and Light's tendency to underperform? No it has to be about maps lol. But let's not bring the topic too far. The original matter is about Scan's bias in commentary. Go see the JYJ vs Bisu vods on youtube and see how many people also share my impression, that Scan himself had to give an explanation. If you want to dispute that, try to analyze how JYJ "did nothing wrong" and "the map is wrong" in that game. Scan is a terran player. What is wrong with the biase? He also happened to be extremely skilled (pro lvl) And proly faces many problems with that specific map.He speak koreans so im sure he got the same feedback from others.That is his opinion ofc.I dont see nothing wrong with it.If you disagree you are free to show stats or some way to explain why you dont agree with that. Instead you are acting like a weirdo and btching about his cast cuz of one specific game ? I still respect you dont like his cast. But the btching is not needed.
I made one post calling his cast a disgrace this season, after someone said he disagreed with Scan about Revolver.
The rest are just responses after people and himself jumped into the debate and quoted myself directly
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You can argue that the word "disgrace" too strong, but nothing about my behavior suggests its bitching like a weirdo.
What does it take to not be a weirdo these days? Not replying to people calling for you at all?
About what's wrong with the bias. Not as a player or a streamer, but shouldn't a caster be impartial? Notice how I also kinda complimented Nyoken and Artosis, who are also Terran players, on that aspect? And it's not because of one specific game, it just happens that that game is such a prime example. It's hard to respect his cast after a game where the winner (Bisu) was actually the one who did nothing wrong (or did more right things than the loser), but he spent all his time blaming the map,
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On April 10 2022 02:38 TMNT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2022 01:52 whaski wrote:On April 10 2022 00:47 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 22:00 whaski wrote:On April 09 2022 20:51 LaStScan wrote:On April 09 2022 20:21 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:50 Ikirouta wrote:On April 09 2022 19:37 TMNT wrote:On April 09 2022 19:28 oxKnu wrote:
I completely disagree with what Scan is saying. Revolver is a perfectly fine map for Terran.
Only some spawn configurations + scout timings can be troublesome but that's always a possibility on other 4p maps as well. Scan has been a disgrace this season with his Terran bias. It's like, he's literally appreciating Terran all game, blaming the map which are supposed to be a balanced and saying nothing about the maps which areclearly Terran favored. Feels bad for Nyoken trying to balance the act. I no longer watch Starcast TV stream anymore. Even Artosis the whiner has been professional in his casting and doesn't let his bias slip in. idk why you complain, just don't watch it if you don't like it, why do you also have to cry about it lmao I literally said I no longer watch StarcastTV anymore lmao. As for crying, I just stated my opinion about his cast when someone brought up a somewhat relevant info. That's literally what everyone's doing on the internet. Crying would be me making a new thread about it. Likewise I can say if you don't like my post dont read or dont reply. Why cry? See how ridiculous your response now? Picking a single moment of my sentence doesn't mean I'm being biased for terran. There's literally no terran players who want to play on metaverse because there are 3 different level of floor(main is 3rd, nat is 2nd, 3rd base is 1st floor). Multiple of terrains with high and low grounds do not support terran for any of timing attack to execute any location 12 nexus with carrier build easily. It's just simply the map did not support for JyJ + Bisu with 0 mistake synergize on that map. Terran simply has to aim for protoss's mistakes to take some chance. So That's why I said JyJ did nothing wrong. I've said this numerous times I don't root for anyone when I do the commentary. I only talk about FACTs and what's out there. I compliment what the player did well/bad in the game. You close your ears all the time and hear ONLY what you want. Please don't talk like you know everything. + Nyoken and I don't get paid to do the ASL cast either. If you don't like our passion + commentary work, that's how you're killing the sc community. You should not care about comments like that. To TMwhatevernameis, It was clearly reflected within player predictions, that most of pros think these maps are terrible for tvp just as Scan argued. Or maybe you know better than Scan and Soulkey perhaps who was very vocal on his stream about maps being rigged towards protoss in pvt. Yeah? So rigged that the PvT win rate on Allegro and Vermeer are 44.6 and 39.2%? That the go-to maps for Protoss to pick, Eclipse and Revolver, have 48.7 and 47%? Not so P favored eh? I'm surprised that Monopoly is 47.3% though, but maybe that's because not many PvT on that map go to late game. Only maps which are statiscally positive for Protoss are Butter (50.5%) and Metaverse (52.5%) but with small sample size those small margins can swing the opposite way easily. The reality is the so-called Protoss maps are somewhat balanced or even slightly Terran favored, while the maps that Terrans pick are just hugely in favor of them. Also let's not play the appeal to authority fallacy card here because if that's the case I'm sure Best and Mini may have something to say. So what? Scan has right to have his opinnion as much as Best and Mini. You can watch and translate what Mini said during Bisu vs Light or Rain that matter. And are you serious, no terran pro predicted that Light would win. And while it is not certain, those players practiced with Rain and got trashed. Korean community was certain that Rain would win. Yeah surely you know better than them how this game works hahaha. And for that, everyone was bashing Light when he switched to protoss and kept losing and losing. Surely he has not evolved as a player but maps are tesagi, terran is tesagi and protoss "is at disadvantage" shees. Edit, I am just so tired of this crap, same thing when Last sweeped Jaedong, "maps are tesagi, casters terran biased, terran imba" blah blah. Its just so great, when zerg beats protoss on map like lunar colony or when terran loses on third world. Lmao who said anything about Light or Rain or Tesagi that you had to bring that up. You must be very insecure about Terran-related matters huh? Even I myself always said Light is the best player skillwise. And I don't know how you got that weird idea of players prediction being fully indicative of map balance. So, nothing to do with luck, form and the players themselves eh? Nothing to do with the Koreans believing in the champion pedigree of Rain especially after the semi (just like they were believing in Soma before that), and Light's tendency to underperform? No it has to be about maps lol. But let's not bring the topic too far. The original matter is about Scan's bias in commentary. Go see the JYJ vs Bisu vods on youtube and see how many people also share my impression, that Scan himself had to give an explanation. If you want to dispute that, try to analyze how JYJ "did nothing wrong" and "the map is wrong" in that game.
No, I meant that Scan is maybe biased about maps, but not anymore than other koreans. It has been mentioned multiple times in multiple streams, that this season PvT seems to be heavily in favor of protoss, even if results speak otherwise. You can dive deeper if you want, but what Scan casts is very much alligned with what korean community thinks. If you don't like his casting fine, but disregarding ASL player and his cast as "biased" and "disgrace" is not.
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