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On November 27 2017 21:58 Bonyth wrote:
The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording. The administration is more interested in seeing all games played, rather than in clans trying their best to bend the rules in their favour, while trying to force their will over a clan. Consequently the most important rule is: Thou shall have fun and not spoil fun for others.
Add this rule from BWCL and we are good.
Watching the clock as the 15 minute mark goes and 1 second later demanding a walkover because a player is on the wrong channel is wrong.
This rule doesn't mean there are no options for walk overs. Then again, I'm with you when it comes to the tone of this conversation. It does take some energy to become such a "person" that feels the urge to argue about a video game in their late twenties / early thirties as if this was the most important aspect of life when, broken down, the prize pool per player is next to nothing. The imo best decision and most constructive feedback was the one of team psi: don't like it, leave, give a reason why.
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@Bonyth
619 and SK forced a walkover of us in PATL by:
- Repeatedly not responding to our requests to play early
- Answering inconclusively
- Avoiding saying anything specific
- Taking the walkover when we didn't show up because we said we couldn't, a number of times, but they just simply refused to reschedule or be conclusive in any way, just to get the win.
I could go get screenshots or whatever, but I don't have to. Bonyth, your clan leader is a well known scammy, skeevy underhanded immature whiny bitch. He's done other awesome things like smurf a noob tournament to win 30 bucks, while encouraging other clan members to do the same. He repeatedly lies and makes up false stories to support his own agenda, while never backing up his own words. He constantly complains and tries to abuse every rule he can and not take part in "The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording", which is your very own quote.
Everyone who ever deals with him on any sort of extended basis knows this. We all know what kind of person he is (it would be typical of him to be two faced), so for you to represent his clan and say that is extremely hypocritical, because SK and 619 in particular are the exact opposite of your very own words.
So, what say you then? You're on the team that the very leader does not represent your own values. Seems like a strange situation to me and likely others.
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oh man i had a word for that .. it starts with s and makes a sound like this zzzzzzzzz but i totally forgot the name ...
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On November 28 2017 05:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
oh man i had a word for that .. it starts with s and makes a sound like this zzzzzzzzz but i totally forgot the name ...
I'll take snake for $1000, Alex
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Sneaky snakes.. Sneaky snakes everywhere!
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Set 1- Bonyth
Set 2- Dewalt
Set 3- Bonyth/Quantel
Set 4- Terror
I dont understand why youre trying to claim a walk-over for set 4 before any of the games have even been played simply because the person isnt in the channel. We told you that he was finishing a best of 1 game and would be a few mins late. We didnt write the rules to so players can try and abuse them for a win. This rule is set in place so players arent waiting for their opponent that is never going to show up. In this case there was games to be played - play sets 1,2 and 3 quit being unreasonable. My decision wasnt to bend the rules to favor SK, but to encourage the games to be played and not get free walk-overs. I agree if a team is completely absent at the 15 min mark a walk-over is what is needed but I dont agree with people watching the timer waiting to disqualify someone and then furthermore trying to cause a big scene about something that shouldnt be.
You guys have volunteered to play in this league. Im confident the majority of you guys are having fun and are completely satisfied with the goal and direction but if this isnt something you care for you do not need to participate. I refuse to keep dealing with negative people, negativity spreads like cancer. I have stated multiple times im more than willing to work with certain individuals but at the end of the day if its not exactly what they want they throw a fit.
I have given Eywa fair warning and chances to being involved in the league but because of his personal issue with me he chooses to be a pain in the ass everywhere we meet. This is why you are no longer welcome to participate. I would rather not donate my time to someone like you. You want to push someones buttons until they are no longer willing to work with you and thats exactly what you have done. I have also warned you that if you continue your selfish behavior you are going to forfeit your entire team in the league. Move on, we cant work together and I have no desire in trying to make things work with you in the future.
With that being said... kapppa
I really am enjoying everyone elses participation. I talk to most of the leaders pretty frequently and its exciting to hear everyone being so competitive and taking their games seriously. I would also like to thank teams like SouL, [eF], KDV, [a.G]-A/B team managers and players for working together and getting games played either before the deadline or working around the other events that are going on in the Starcraft community. This is the kind of spirit we want to encourage. I think we have a strong foundation with the league but there is always room for improvement and thats what we will continue to do every day. Lets not get distracted in the negative and go have some fun.
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On November 28 2017 07:18 619 wrote:
Set 1- Bonyth
Set 2- Dewalt
Set 3- Bonyth/Quantel
Set 4- Terror
I dont understand why youre trying to claim a walk-over for set 4 before any of the games have even been played simply because the person isnt in the channel. We told you that he was finishing a best of 1 game and would be a few mins late. We didnt write the rules to so players can try and abuse them for a win. This rule is set in place so players arent waiting for their opponent that is never going to show up. In this case there was games to be played - play sets 1,2 and 3 quit being unreasonable. My decision wasnt to bend the rules to favor SK, but to encourage the games to be played and not get free walk-overs. I agree if a team is completely absent at the 15 min mark a walk-over is what is needed but I dont agree with people watching the timer waiting to disqualify someone and then furthermore trying to cause a big scene about something that shouldnt be.
As repeated several times by others, the problem here is that the rule says at 15 minutes they can take a walkover. It does NOT give exception to when you have a player definitely coming, but will be a few minutes late. The priority of decision goes to the team who is has a player(s) waiting to play their match against someone who is not currently present, not to the team who has the late player. You cannot make the decision for said team to promote the "spirit of the game." To reiterate, it is fine to have that sentiment, but not when it wrongly is in line with benefiting your team at the inconvenience of others. As the hosting team of this league, it would show decency on your part to be mature and have granted the walkover if the opposing team requested it, instead of being finicky over a single game.
I have given Eywa fair warning and chances to being involved in the league but because of his personal issue with me he chooses to be a pain in the ass everywhere we meet. This is why you are no longer welcome to participate. I would rather not donate my time to someone like you. You want to push someones buttons until they are no longer willing to work with you and thats exactly what you have done. I have also warned you that if you continue your selfish behavior you are going to forfeit your entire team in the league. Move on, we cant work together and I have no desire in trying to make things work with you in the future.
With that being said... kapppa
Stop conflating everyone who is in disagreement with your antics to only a single person. You mention him more than anyone, instead of looking at the issue at hand. Adding Kappa at the end gives no one relief. FYI enjoy your warning for using twitch emotes on TL.
I really am enjoying everyone elses participation. I talk to most of the leaders pretty frequently and its exciting to hear everyone being so competitive and taking their games seriously. I would also like to thank teams like SouL, [eF], KDV, [a.G]-A/B team managers and players for working together and getting games played either before the deadline or working around the other events that are going on in the Starcraft community. This is the kind of spirit we want to encourage. I think we have a strong foundation with the league but there is always room for improvement and thats what we will continue to do every day. Lets not get distracted in the negative and go have some fun.
Classic PR move, but I admire the sentiment. No problems with saying this. Insult people first, then write a complement at the end adds a nice cherry on top.
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On November 28 2017 07:18 619 wrote:
Set 1- Bonyth
Set 2- Dewalt
Set 3- Bonyth/Quantel
Set 4- Terror
I dont understand why youre trying to claim a walk-over for set 4 before any of the games have even been played simply because the person isnt in the channel. We told you that he was finishing a best of 1 game and would be a few mins late. We didnt write the rules to so players can try and abuse them for a win. This rule is set in place so players arent waiting for their opponent that is never going to show up. In this case there was games to be played - play sets 1,2 and 3 quit being unreasonable. My decision wasnt to bend the rules to favor SK, but to encourage the games to be played and not get free walk-overs. I agree if a team is completely absent at the 15 min mark a walk-over is what is needed but I dont agree with people watching the timer waiting to disqualify someone and then furthermore trying to cause a big scene about something that shouldnt be.
You guys have volunteered to play in this league. Im confident the majority of you guys are having fun and are completely satisfied with the goal and direction but if this isnt something you care for you do not need to participate. I refuse to keep dealing with negative people, negativity spreads like cancer. I have stated multiple times im more than willing to work with certain individuals but at the end of the day if its not exactly what they want they throw a fit.
I have given Eywa fair warning and chances to being involved in the league but because of his personal issue with me he chooses to be a pain in the ass everywhere we meet. This is why you are no longer welcome to participate. I would rather not donate my time to someone like you. You want to push someones buttons until they are no longer willing to work with you and thats exactly what you have done. I have also warned you that if you continue your selfish behavior you are going to forfeit your entire team in the league. Move on, we cant work together and I have no desire in trying to make things work with you in the future.
With that being said... kapppa
I really am enjoying everyone elses participation. I talk to most of the leaders pretty frequently and its exciting to hear everyone being so competitive and taking their games seriously. I would also like to thank teams like SouL, [eF], KDV, [a.G]-A/B team managers and players for working together and getting games played either before the deadline or working around the other events that are going on in the Starcraft community. This is the kind of spirit we want to encourage. I think we have a strong foundation with the league but there is always room for improvement and thats what we will continue to do every day. Lets not get distracted in the negative and go have some fun.
I'm not playing in your league and have no interest to do so, so take this as you wish, but what's the point of setting rules for a tournament and not enforcing them? How would taking a walkover be considered taking a free win, if it's in the rules?
If the rules aren't being enforced fairly, what's the point of having rules in the first place..
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i only played 1 sktl but all matches are played at the same time?. sk vs nas was not done one at a time
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On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved.
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On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved.
While this may be fun, do not allow a single rotten apple spoil the rest in the bunch.
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On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved.
I know several players who've already quit due to lack of quality in events and lack of quality in the ladder. This is necessary drama if you want good events that will lead to growth.
Generally, speaking from experience in organizing events, organizers who quit due to drama are usually already doing more harm than good at the time where they quit.
This is definitely true for me, I built up events and leagues that gained quite a following in the community, but at the end when people were going nuts, they had good reason to. One thing that I've learned as an organizer and a manager is to take drama the same way you would take constructive criticism... It's hard, believe me, it's hard. This is how you fix up your events.
There aren't many recent comparables for team events, but GC:T and GC4 are good examples in that, the rules were changed 3 times (after the events) following drama - not as a crackdown, but more as a "hmm, this guy might have a point, there should be a rule allowing or disallowing this". If you deal with drama that way, it doesn't tend to spread.
If you're waiting for someone to tell you politely how to fix your event and have a healthy discussion to the point of mutual agreement, forget about it, it's just not going to happen. The goal isn't for the organization to like and agree with all of their rules, it's for the teams and players to enjoy them and to create a good atmosphere.
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On November 28 2017 23:03 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved. I know several players who've already quit due to lack of quality in events and lack of quality in the ladder. This is necessary drama if you want good events that will lead to growth. Generally, speaking from experience in organizing events, organizers who quit due to drama are usually already doing more harm than good at the time where they quit. This is definitely true for me, I built up events and leagues that gained quite a following in the community, but at the end when people were going nuts, they had good reason to. One thing that I've learned as an organizer and a manager is to take drama the same way you would take constructive criticism... It's hard, believe me, it's hard. This is how you fix up your events. There aren't many recent comparables for team events, but GC:T and GC4 are good examples in that, the rules were changed 3 times (after the events) following drama - not as a crackdown, but more as a "hmm, this guy might have a point, there should be a rule allowing or disallowing this". If you deal with drama that way, it doesn't tend to spread. If you're waiting for someone to tell you politely how to fix your event and have a healthy discussion to the point of mutual agreement, forget about it, it's just not going to happen. The goal isn't for the organization to like and agree with all of their rules, it's for the teams and players to enjoy them and to create a good atmosphere.
Theres a huge difference between what you have done all season, and constructive criticisms. Do you realize you have been the only participant starting issues with the league since day 1? This kind of drama is completely unnecessary and companies or organizations do not grow from negativity. Dont try and brush your attempt to completely shit on any event that you aren't hosting and pretend your trying to do this for the good of the community. I have had open dialogue with every team leader and instead of using the resources you where provided you chose to bring things up in public arguments and try and shame any idea that doesn't conveniently fit your agenda. Like the person mentioned about not only does this drive any organizers away, but it also drives any companies away that are willing to offer support for LAN events and tournaments in the future.
There is 191 members/coaches participating in this league. I know not every person is going to be completely satisfied but 190 people have been adult enough to have open conversation, and I believe I have addressed most, if not all issues.
On November 28 2017 22:49 Demurity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved. While this may be fun, do not allow a single rotten apple spoil the rest in the bunch.
What exactly have you done for the community Demurity? In the last 6 months not only have I donated 1000+ hrs hosting events and tournaments, but with the SKTL included I have also given nearly $3,000 in tournament payouts. When nobody was hosting any events, I was there every week.
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On November 29 2017 01:20 619 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 23:03 Eywa- wrote:On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved. I know several players who've already quit due to lack of quality in events and lack of quality in the ladder. This is necessary drama if you want good events that will lead to growth. Generally, speaking from experience in organizing events, organizers who quit due to drama are usually already doing more harm than good at the time where they quit. This is definitely true for me, I built up events and leagues that gained quite a following in the community, but at the end when people were going nuts, they had good reason to. One thing that I've learned as an organizer and a manager is to take drama the same way you would take constructive criticism... It's hard, believe me, it's hard. This is how you fix up your events. There aren't many recent comparables for team events, but GC:T and GC4 are good examples in that, the rules were changed 3 times (after the events) following drama - not as a crackdown, but more as a "hmm, this guy might have a point, there should be a rule allowing or disallowing this". If you deal with drama that way, it doesn't tend to spread. If you're waiting for someone to tell you politely how to fix your event and have a healthy discussion to the point of mutual agreement, forget about it, it's just not going to happen. The goal isn't for the organization to like and agree with all of their rules, it's for the teams and players to enjoy them and to create a good atmosphere. Theres a huge difference between what you have done all season, and constructive criticisms. Do you realize you have been the only participant starting issues with the league since day 1? This kind of drama is completely unnecessary and companies or organizations do not grow from negativity. Dont try and brush your attempt to completely shit on any event that you aren't hosting and pretend your trying to do this for the good of the community. I have had open dialogue with every team leader and instead of using the resources you where provided you chose to bring things up in public arguments and try and shame any idea that doesn't conveniently fit your agenda. Like the person mentioned about not only does this drive any organizers away, but it also drives any companies away that are willing to offer support for LAN events and tournaments in the future. There is 191 members/coaches participating in this league. I know not every person is going to be completely satisfied but 190 people have been adult enough to have open conversation, and I believe I have addressed most, if not all issues. Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 22:49 Demurity wrote:On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved. While this may be fun, do not allow a single rotten apple spoil the rest in the bunch. What exactly have you done for the community Demurity? In the last 6 months not only have I donated 1000+ hrs hosting events and tournaments, but with the SKTL included I have also given nearly $3,000 in tournament payouts. When nobody was hosting any events, I was there every week.
I'm far from the only person questioning the event and the rules. It's fair to say that no one is questioning the rules to the same extent as me. Though, my last post wasn't even negatively targeting you, it was more of a general note on organizers who have left the community in the past due to drama, they're often negatively contributing by the time they leave, that's not a comment on you currently.
I've seen this book play out before as a participant in the story and as an external viewer, it's always the same thing. It's unfortunate that I don't know how to express my thoughts in a way that won't offend you. I don't want to be the bad guy here, I'm just trying to get what's fair for the players and everyone participating in this league. I want it to be a league where the players who chose not to participate can feel bad about their decision, I want every foreign brood war league to be that league.
It's a shame because I'm not trying to offend you, but there's absolutely nothing that I can say (much less now) that you will take constructively.
Also, I think it's super unfair to say that I shit on all leagues that aren't mine.
I think TL Open is super well run and I think SK Weekly tours are as well. They both seem to run smoothly and I can't see issues with either of them. They both contribute very nicely for the community.
I think ZOTAC and ESL had significant issues which they've been working on addressing as they go forward, they are adapting as much as they can to the needs of the community.
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The difference between TL and ZOTAC is your approach to those organizations is much different than your approach with me. Also these organizers wouldn't put up with your shit at all period. You can pretend all you want, but the reason why we don't get along is because of a PATL disagreement. You chose to participate in this event and if this isn't something you want to do then i can dismiss the entire team and create much less headaches. I have told you and everyone that this is Season 1 and this is my first time hosting a team league for the Starcraft scene so there will be growing pains and things that change so we can come with the best competitive experience in the future. Season 1 has been full of changes that support what the players are asking for so lets not pretend nothing has been done all season.
Again, I have given you the opportunity to have open conversation with me and I also tried to smooth any issues we had in the past directly in your private message. Instead of dealing with this like an adult you have to come and try and make me look like shit publicly. I have given you the resources to handle this in a professional manner and you chose not too. Your unwilling to work with me, and because of that I am unwilling to work with you.
If something changes in the future and you want to talk to me, send me a discord message. Im not an unreasonable person and I'd prefer to not have enemies. If we can resolve the issue and work together that would bring the biggest benefit to the community - the balls in your court you chose what you want to do.
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EPT
