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![[image loading]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362773877916696577/376728732670361600/SK_Team_League.png) Clan SK is proud to announce the launch of the SK Team League Season 1. This league is packed with Broodwars premier talent, and will showcase some of the best team match-ups. If you are interested in supporting this $500 prize pool please click here. We will be spotlighting the top 3 weekly match-ups with a two man casting team that will be held on our official Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/clansk_tvPrize Pool $1500
1st- $1000
2nd- $350
3rd- $150 Please refer to our SKTL Discord for any league information. (Schedule, Team Rosters, Results, Rules)You will have all week to schedule your match-up with your opponent if you cannot meet the default time Sundays at 12pm est. Please work with team managers if they have players playing in seperate events like BWCL and Clash for Char, likely you have players playing in those events as well so lets work together and not abuse the 15 walk-over rule. It is very important that every team, and team captain/coach read the rules completely. There is an order to submitting replays and will answer most general questions. If you need any clarification or the help of a league admin please join our discord channel by clicking here and feel free to ask. If you notice you do not have a team captain please reach out to 619 or fire and designate one. Prize pool is gaurenteed $500, with $500 in coupons provided by Matcherino as well as the sale of 15 products on our Matcherino shop ($650) provided by E-Blue Gaming. 100% of the sale price goes towards the prize pool. Estimated total prize pool is $1500We are currently searching for staff members to help run our current projects, and for expansion ideas in the near future. If you feel like you would be a good fit, please contact me. SKTL Discord: Click Here!Clan Discord: Click Here!Website: http://www.clansk.comOfficial Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/clansk_tvOfficial Liquipedia Page: [url=http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/SK_Team_League_Season_1[/url] If you are interested in supporting the prize pool for this event please click here! Sponsors/Partnerships:Matcherino - [url=http://www.matcherino.com]http://www.matcherino.com[/url] E-Blue Gaming - [url=https://shop.e-bluegaming.com/]https://shop.e-bluegaming.com/[/url] Dangerous to Play Alone - [url=https://discord.gg/Rw6QeUV]https://discord.gg/Rw6QeUV[/url] E-Sports Tickets - [url=http://www.esports-tickets.com]http://www.esports-tickets.com[/url] Contact: [SK]Fire Battle.net ID: FOr#11217 Discord: fire#6357 Email: skgamingleague@gmail.com Or just PM me here.
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Can we agree atleast to not allow koreans to play the ace match ?right now the system allows 1 player to play 1 1v1 1 2v2 and ace match,im not really ok with that either.
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I have recieved confirmation that racepicking will now be allowed. :D
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On October 31 2017 10:22 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
I have recieved confirmation that racepicking will now be allowed. :D
Flavor of the week rules.
Speaking of which, they aren't yet updated in the discord if that's true:
2) No race picking.
3) Once a line-up is submitted, they will be forced to play whatever specific race they chose, regardless of the opponents race. If your player is not confident in a mirror match, then strategy comes into play when submitting your line-up.
4) Random is not allowed.
Edit (wut?):
EywaSC - Today at 9:32 PM
I'm curious to know what changes were brought in other than race picking
I mean
Lineups
I guess I won't get the schedule tonight then? :smile:
AeroSx17 - Today at 9:32 PM
racepicking will NOT change until NEXT season IF majority of the teams feel the same way.
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I think hes saying racepicking will be allowed this season, and next season if people dont like it then it can be changed
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On October 31 2017 11:10 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
I think hes saying racepicking will be allowed this season, and next season if people dont like it then it can be changed
Its not possible to have race picking in this format. Whatever race you submit in your lineup at the beginning of the week is the race you have to play that week. The format allows players to practice for their matchup during the week. For instance. If NAS leader wants to put dragon in as a Zerg on a protoss map and have him pay zerg that week that fine. But he cant be put in as a protoss then switch to zerg if he gets a pvp.
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On October 31 2017 14:00 [SK]sLiMpoweR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2017 11:10 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
I think hes saying racepicking will be allowed this season, and next season if people dont like it then it can be changed Its not possible to have race picking in this format. Whatever race you submit in your lineup at the beginning of the week is the race you have to play that week. The format allows players to practice for their matchup during the week. For instance. If NAS leader wants to put dragon in as a Zerg on a protoss map and have him pay zerg that week that fine. But he cant be put in as a protoss then switch to zerg if he gets a pvp.
My race is ZvP PvZ PvT PvR, my opponents race is protoss. He will see this, realize he has a PvZ, and have a week to prepare just like everyone else. So yes, its definitely possible.
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Arcania has a really good argument for this, lets hope he comes here and drops us some knowledge.
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Why is everyone bickering over this? My goodness... just let people play the race, they have a week to prepare, who cares. If you're good, you'll win. If not, then you lose. Use your 1 week however you want. I see a lot of bickering; just let the man play his match up and call it a day...
Also, it's only low level players complaining about this. I don't see any good players caring about race picking or not. Just food for thought.
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Race pickers are an organizer's wet dream because they typically play matchups that lead to better viewership than mirrors. It helps a lot especially in small tournaments where you have limited games to pick from for casting.
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On November 01 2017 02:54 Eywa- wrote:
Race pickers are an organizer's wet dream because they typically play matchups that lead to better viewership than mirrors. It helps a lot especially in small tournaments where you have limited games to pick from for casting.
Agreed! I haven't seen one good player or a veteran of the game complaining about race picking. Not a single one...
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Honestly, the racepicking rule is pressing, but another rule that I think deserves attention is the mandatory 3 players must show up to a clan war. This is a problem because players can double as 1v1 and 2v2, thus you could theoretically lose a CW if you're up 3-0 because the 4th set could turn out to be a walk over. If that 4th set is a walk over, you would automatically lose despite the final score being 3-1.
What does this mean for league play? Walk Overs are ultra valuable, and I know that as a team manager I will probably be taking W.O the second that it is available (speaking of which, I don't even remember reading what the walk over rules are... And I can't check the rules because I've been put on timeout from the discord chat which is the sole source of information.
EywaSC - Today at 5:08 PM
Okay, but let's say I win 3-1, 2 players showed up and they played the 2v2, 1 set W.O
What would happen?
AeroSx17 - Today at 5:08 PM
you will learn, and VERY fast, i dont play bullshit, the league is being ran for a certain way, and the easiest way. if you dont like it, thats tough.
then you lose the CW, all members need to be present.
I've never seen the result of a clan war reversed due to 1 walk over set is all I'm saying, but with the current rules, it's entirely possible.
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I now clearly remember why I don't play in leagues and tournaments.
They are usually ran by assholes with biased views and stupid rules. Not to mention the endless waiting that's usually on the weekend. Good luck with the tour!
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Anyway, I thankfully got banned from SKTL due to not respecting the authority of the host. I didn't want to participate from the start, that was clear from my demeanor.
In the spirit of competition, my message to all of the other clan leaders is this: If you play in this event, you will lose. SK holds all the cards and they have a rule that says 1 player can win a CW via 1v1, 2v2 and ace. That's 3 matches in a best of 5 where Koreans are allowed to play... Is the money that enticing that you would go through a whole season of the frustration, dealing with the lack of clear rules for a chance to win 2nd place?
The competitive aspect is gone, and if you allow this to take place then it will only continue to take place. Even if it's reduced to max 2 plays per week you can lose your best player to a Korean just by luck of the draw... And you need to win every non Korean matchup.
I'm not saying kill the clan league, just together all of the clans should demand a ruleset that is fair for everyone and that encourages competition.
The only reason I'm posting this as that I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, and something had to be said.
ReD is looking for fair CWs anytime, we can also do $$ CWs with non Koreans if any teams are up for putting in equal sums.
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I agree that having koreans, especially when combined with 1player able to play 3sets, is unfair to the majority of the teams playing in this. Ive talked to Aeros and he agreed that the 1player playing 3sets rule is not good. However then he also said he didnt want to change it, so I dont know what to expect at the moment. He did change the rule about racepicking, which I am happy about, that was the biggest concern to me.
I am still not happy about playing with these other 2 conditions, and I expect most other teams arent either. Hopefully at least the 1player 3sets rule is changed. As soon as koreans were allowed, I no longer expected to realistically have a chance at winning the league, so at this point im just playing for 2nd place which is pretty lame. Im playing knowing that the league is unfair, but there arent any better options for teamleagues at the moment.
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I'm not happy about the Koreans being allowed after there was a poll which resulted in people not wanting korean participation, but I also see the side of SK wanting to allow their player to join their own team league. If this were my league and I had a Korean I would want them to join in, one of my players and good friends is Korean and while Im glad he can play, Scan is at a very high level, its almost an auto-win for him unless you bring a top caliber Korean to match him. Also while I get along with Aeros I feel he had it out for Eywa from the start, sorry Aeros just calling how I saw it I still like you <3 Hopefully things settle down and everyone can play happily. The idea of SK Team League is great, but perhaps it needs to go back to the drawing board, some rules strike me as odd.
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Just FYI, the host, anderson barrett, has a bad reputation for not delivery what he promises. aka the prize money, you will most likely never get if you won.
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On November 03 2017 10:29 YPang wrote:
Just FYI, the host, anderson barrett, has a bad reputation for not delivery what he promises. aka the prize money, you will most likely never get if you won.
care to elaborate?
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Holy shit indeed. Fuck this, team NaS is out.
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Norway28669 Posts
While that thread is really damning of Aeros / Smi.Athene, SK has been running tourneys for a good while now, and I haven't heard anyone complain about not getting their money. Additionally I have been told that Anderson Barrett has been removed from the team and from any organizing position. I understand that people are apprehensive when stuff like this comes to light but the friday+saturday tourneys have been going on for a couple months now, certainly someone would have complained if money wasn't being paid out as planned.
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Hmm, what's the word? Irony? ;d
+ Show Spoiler +
Tbh, there was something off about this guy from the beginning, a man who wants to do something for the community... Yet he admitted (given, in private chat) that he was entirely disconnected from Starcraft and didn't have the passion for it. I'm surprised at what came out though, mostly because there's not much money to do away with ;d.
I think that the tour is going to be better for it, AeroSx17 had a terrible attitude and I really think the new SK admin is a good guy. Best of luck to all teams  .
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On November 03 2017 12:13 Eywa- wrote:Hmm, what's the word? Irony? ;d + Show Spoiler +
LMFAO
MCGANGBANG THO
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"You work at McDonald's, live with mother, in basement, etc"
Weak stuff.
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On behalf of the Clan SK I would like to make a few things clear about the current situation, and also promise our commitment to improve each and every day. I was completely unaware of AeroS or Anderson Barnetts affiliation with the community in the past, but I am very thankful for the people who brought this to our attention so quickly.Thankfully Andersons tenure with SK was only 4 days. This is not the kind of environment we are trying to cultivate in the community and we want to make sure that our reputation isn't damaged based on this persons past. We have never had issues with payments in the past. Partnered with our weekly sponsor and my own personal money we have had 35 successful tournaments without 1 failed payment or mixup. We would like to continue to hold ourselves to a high standard and create excellent content for the Broodwar community. I would hope that everyone can come together as we look forward to a very bright future. I really am excited about the things that are happening behind the scenes here at SK and I think they will definitely benefit the community. SKTL will be run by the SK Operations Manager [SK]fire for the time being until we find the right person to take over. Fires contact info is listed below. I apologize for any negativity this has caused.
fire#6357
Daniel Duryea
[SK]619
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On November 03 2017 12:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:
While that thread is really damning of Aeros / Smi.Athene, SK has been running tourneys for a good while now, and I haven't heard anyone complain about not getting their money. Additionally I have been told that Anderson Barrett has been removed from the team and from any organizing position. I understand that people are apprehensive when stuff like this comes to light but the friday+saturday tourneys have been going on for a couple months now, certainly someone would have complained if money wasn't being paid out as planned.
that is a good point, SK have been legit with their other tours. Perhaps I wont withdraw, but I want to talk to this new guy first
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If you feel like you would be a good fit, please contact me
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Contact: Anderson Barrett
Battle.net ID: aéros#1708
Discord: AeroS#0810
Email: skgamingleague@gmail.com
On November 03 2017 13:27 619 wrote:
I was completely unaware of AeroS or Anderson Barnetts affiliation with the community in the past, but I am very thankful for the people who brought this to our attention so quickly.Thankfully Andersons tenure with SK was only 4 days.
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/d2bc63963a450faa37c7cd358c9c8a78.png)
1. Why was he saying he was running the league in the SKTL discord way before you say he joined SK.
2. Who is supplying the money? Who is sponsoring it?
3. Why would you let this guy have access to the SK Teamliquid account and e-mail address on his supposed first day of being with SK?
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On November 03 2017 16:09 SCC-Faust wrote:Show nested quote +If you feel like you would be a good fit, please contact me
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Contact: Anderson Barrett
Battle.net ID: aéros#1708
Discord: AeroS#0810
Email: skgamingleague@gmail.com
Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 13:27 619 wrote:
I was completely unaware of AeroS or Anderson Barnetts affiliation with the community in the past, but I am very thankful for the people who brought this to our attention so quickly.Thankfully Andersons tenure with SK was only 4 days.
1. Why was he saying he was running the league in the SKTL discord way before you say he joined SK. 2. Who is supplying the money? Who is sponsoring it? 3. Why would you let this guy have access to the SK Teamliquid account and e-mail address on his supposed first day of being with SK?
I’ve actually seen the guy mention that everything was dumped on him overnight essentially and that he was re-working the rules etc. I’m not sure why you would have ever thought he was taking care of this before we switched organizers. It was very clear I was the organizer of the tournaments and league and there was talk about weather I should be in charge of the league and the leader of Clan SK so again to do what the community requested we threw in what we thought would have been a good candidate. Honestly the guys “fake” resume was impressive. I didn’t really think twice about it. Currently we have a $100 donation, and i will be responsible for the remaining $400. Again payments have never been an issue after 35 tournaments, i don’t believe it’s even fair to question us when it comes to money.
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On November 03 2017 16:09 SCC-Faust wrote:Show nested quote +If you feel like you would be a good fit, please contact me
...
Contact: Anderson Barrett
Battle.net ID: aéros#1708
Discord: AeroS#0810
Email: skgamingleague@gmail.com
Show nested quote +On November 03 2017 13:27 619 wrote:
I was completely unaware of AeroS or Anderson Barnetts affiliation with the community in the past, but I am very thankful for the people who brought this to our attention so quickly.Thankfully Andersons tenure with SK was only 4 days.
1. Why was he saying he was running the league in the SKTL discord way before you say he joined SK. 2. Who is supplying the money? Who is sponsoring it? 3. Why would you let this guy have access to the SK Teamliquid account and e-mail address on his supposed first day of being with SK?
To be entirely fair, this move was a forced move by the community as well, there wasn't much time for this to get on track and they needed to bring someone in on short notice. Now, you can argue that it was an organizational mistake to not foresee this, but on the grand scale of organizational mistakes, I don't think it's a very significant one (and most of the time it won't come back to bite you).
As for the general rule with sponsorship, if you don't see a sponsor listed, you should probably assume that the organizer is putting up the money. Given that the prize pool isn't so significant, I don't see much reason to question whether or not it'll be paid out in the absence of a sponsor. (Also, from what I hear SK has reliably paid out over the past months)
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So are you gonna change some rules ? Like race picking or allowing koreans ?
I don't event want to play in this league atm, and i hope eywa, dragon and eon will agree not to play in this if you don't change some rules.
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Is this gonna be like proleague?
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Theres conversation of changing the rule regarding the ace match (Koreans not being allowed for the ace match), however we are not open to the idea about completely region locking this event. Come Season 2 I think there could be enough interest to host two leagues (foreign/global or open/invite). We are committed to providing the community with as much content as we can so as we experiment with ideas please be patient with us.
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On November 03 2017 21:22 KenZy wrote:
So are you gonna change some rules ? Like race picking or allowing koreans ?
I don't event want to play in this league atm, and i hope eywa, dragon and eon will agree not to play in this if you don't change some rules.
I've read somewhere that racepicking is going to be allowed (please correct me if I'm wrong).
In the post above you can also see that Koreans might not be allowed win clan wars alone. It's a step forward, some compromise.
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We have not discussed the idea of race picking allowed. We liked the set-up of the Pan American Team League and honestly adopted a lot of their rules. That league will no longer be happening next season and I spoke with Psyonic Reaver about basically passing of the torch. Because Clan SK has a desire to host events ourselves we decided not to keep the PATL name and change it to SKTL and open region locks.
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Ok there is going to be some rule changes and I will briefly go over them here but the details will be updated in the rules later today.
Race picking will be allowed. (Read rules for specifics)
Koreans will not be able to play the ace match.
I would like to make it clear that while the min participants for the CW is three, you can win with two people if you 3-0 and do not allow for a game 4. If the matchup goes to game 4 you would be required to play your third player because a player can only play in one 1v1, one 2v2, and the ace as long as they aren’t korean. One player cannot play in two 1v1, and the 2v2.
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Another rule change, please note:
A player can only play a maximum of 2 times per team per week.. Previously it was 3 times per team per week.
Race picking will be allowed.
Koreans will not be able to play the ace match.
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Fair enough, and respectable responses. *puts on monocle and top hat and skiddles out of thread with a candy cane shoved up his ass*
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Ok, these are changes in the right direction. Team NaS will play. Id prefer no koreans at all though, since that is what the community voted for.
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Remember team captains, your line-ups for week 1 are due tomorrow by 12pm est. If you forget to send your line-up for week one you will forfeit the entire week for your team. There’s to many teams to address and monitor this internally so it is your responsibility to get these in each week. Please send your lineups to fire and he will post this weeks matchups. Remember the schedule for all 12 weeks and full team roster is available on clansk.com
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If you need any help mate shoot me a msg on skype.
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On November 05 2017 03:20 NbSky wrote:
If you need any help mate shoot me a msg on skype.
will do, thnx bud!
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On November 04 2017 06:46 SCC-Faust wrote:
Fair enough, and respectable responses. *puts on monocle and top hat and skiddles out of thread with a candy cane shoved up his ass*
LOL !!
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On November 06 2017 20:25 Poegim wrote:
clansk.com domain dead?
No? Not sure what happened sir check again.
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Great stuff from Matcherino. I hope the BW community get behind this kind of support. Click the link guys and show Matcherino that Starcraft is a worthy investment.
It's not a registration page. It's just a since sign in with twitch, Google or Twitter and punch in the code..
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Please note that play time for SKTL has been changed to Sunday at 12pm est. Also if you have not already used the coupon code on our matcherino to support the prize pool with $1 free dollar please do so! The code is: SKTLS1 - Follow link below.
https://matcherino.com/tournaments/8078/description
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Hi, can vietnam team join this League?
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You guys should put this on the calendar for the next cast. Whoever is casting is pretty good (Beast and Pisan I think?)
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Hey, not to nitpick or anything, but it's week 3 and we still don't know what the schedule is for the league. Currently only 8 of 12 weeks of the league are accounted for and in those 8 weeks we're only scheduled to play half of the teams because we are scheduled to meet 2 teams twice.
I'm very confused... When are we going to know the full league schedule?
My inquiry about this in the discord chat seems to have fallen by the wayside.
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So, TerrOr showed up 26 minutes late for a CW today, but we can't take walk over because he's the 4th set (this is something that was made up on the spot as it isn't specified in the walk over rule)
7) All matches will be held on the East server at channel: Clan SK. You have until every Sunday at 12:00pm set to start your match. Disqualifications will start 15 mins after deadline.
This very much is SK's clan league.
The rules also have this little nugget:
4) Each team is required to have three members to compete minimum.
That also wasn't met by the 15 minute deadline.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/VUCglL7.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler [More] +
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I think the league needs a neutral admin who's input will be 100% honored by the Host of the League. I appreciate what SK is doing by hosting a league, but bending rules to cater to you is a bit much. We really need someone neutral or teams playing vs SK will continuously have issues like this...PsyonicReaver you're our only hope!
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Eywa its not like you werent in communication with Sky, he was finishing his match in Clash for Char. We have asked everyone to be flexible as people are switching between BWCL, Clash for Char, PATL, SKTL so we can make this work. Just because it doesnt fit your agenda for a free walk-over quit complaining. You literally bring 0 benefit or importance to this league so like I said before if you want to continue to show your displeasure I will simply remove you. If you want to work together cohesively id be more than happy to have you around but I will not dish out anymore warnings and I dont care if its on TL, or its on Discord. If your unhappy ill solve that problem really fast for you buddy.
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On November 27 2017 03:46 619 wrote:
Eywa its not like you werent in communication with Sky, he was finishing his match in Clash for Char. We have asked everyone to be flexible as people are switching between BWCL, Clash for Char, PATL, SKTL so we can make this work. Just because it doesnt fit your agenda for a free walk-over quit complaining. You literally bring 0 benefit or importance to this league so like I said before if you want to continue to show your displeasure I will simply remove you. If you want to work together cohesively id be more than happy to have you around but I will not dish out anymore warnings and I dont care if its on TL, or its on Discord. If your unhappy ill solve that problem really fast for you buddy.
To be fair, the post was before your last warning, so I feel like the ban is unwarranted. I've never been opposed to working together, but going against your own rules in "the spirit of the game" does not lead to me wanting to work together, especially when it benefits your team.
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Its not bending the rule for anyone in particular, every single week nobody had this issue. It wasnt like the people werent online talking about this. Eywa find someone to figure out your roster since your so unhappy you have been removed from any form of communication. If you want to continue your actions and risk your team completely forfieting the event than keep running your mouth. its to stresssful dealing with you every day im just going to be honest.
and yes it is SK's league. SK staff puts termendous hours into making this work so if you are not satisfied with it then dont participate. im not putting my time and money and dealing with a bunch of complainers at the same time.
this stuff isnt going to be argued anymore im completely done with it.
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The requirements for a W.O win should be explicitly stated in the rules so this type of thing doesnt happen again. ATM the rules read to me as not having 3 players by 12:15 means your opponent can take a walkover. Personally I would always wait if the other team is in communication though, because we all signed up to play BW
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On November 27 2017 04:25 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
The requirements for a W.O win should be explicitly stated in the rules so this type of thing doesnt happen again. ATM the rules read to me as not having 3 players by 12:15 means your opponent can take a walkover. Personally I would always wait if the other team is in communication though, because we all signed up to play BW
NVM, I assumed based on your post that the rules had been changed (I obviously can't see them since I'm not in the discord)
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It's conniving to say that you cannot take a walkover when a match has yet to be played, while waiting an indeterminable amount of time for the opponent to show up. If you have a particular person you want to play in the lineup, they have to be on time. If he/she does not show up within 15 minutes, the opposing team has the option of taking a walkover. There should be no exceptions to this. An organization that uses deception and exploits loopholes to its own rules while telling everyone else to fuck off is iniquitous. 619 is notorious for being toxic, and has no problems with doing anything to achieve wins/growing SK, at the expense of clan members.
If there is a problem and everyone but yourself thinks the root of it is you, maybe it is time to reflect upon yourself.
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![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/GrvSo0E.png)
lol, the irony
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On November 27 2017 03:31 Fujikura wrote:
I think the league needs a neutral admin who's input will be 100% honored by the Host of the League. I appreciate what SK is doing by hosting a league, but bending rules to cater to you is a bit much. We really need someone neutral or teams playing vs SK will continuously have issues like this...PsyonicReaver you're our only hope!
psyonic reaver tried his best but he failed and lost interest really fast, he also tried to do to much I knew that leauge was falling from day 1 sktl is doing the same thing but there alot more motivated and can learn from the formers mistakes like a sorter season since you know half the teams are going to disband anyway. I mean if literally anyone wanted to run a leauge im sure they would and many would follow. The fact is no one wants to do. I have seen leagues fall and rise over my 15 years of playing and theres a pretty simple formula I dont know why people try to devait from it. ITs called WGT
Im sure 619 is somewhat melding the rules to his own will. but pushing for w.os is equally as gay Top teams should never try to w.o each other the rules are just there to kill off teams who cant even field a lineup. Like you always knew terror was coming you just wanted a free win.
but I get it there is drama thats a whole other issue. admins shouldnt bring the drama its counter productive... This whole trend needs to stop tbh. Yes you need a couple admins to run a league but each team doesint need managers really. Were not pros were just players trying to have fun.
You dont want the whole highlight of a red vs sk tourney being about 619 vs eywa its about the players
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On November 27 2017 12:34 sicklucker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 03:31 Fujikura wrote:
I think the league needs a neutral admin who's input will be 100% honored by the Host of the League. I appreciate what SK is doing by hosting a league, but bending rules to cater to you is a bit much. We really need someone neutral or teams playing vs SK will continuously have issues like this...PsyonicReaver you're our only hope! psyonic reaver tried his best but he failed and lost interest really fast, he also tried to do to much I knew that leauge was falling from day 1 sktl is doing the same thing but there alot more motivated and can learn from the formers mistakes like a sorter season since you know half the teams are going to disband anyway. I mean if literally anyone wanted to run a leauge im sure they would and many would follow. The fact is no one wants to do. I have seen leagues fall and rise over my 15 years of playing and theres a pretty simple formula I dont know why people try to devait from it. ITs called WGT Im sure 619 is somewhat melding the rules to his own will. but pushing for w.os is equally as gay Top teams should never try to w.o each other the rules are just there to kill off teams who cant even field a lineup. Like you always knew terror was coming you just wanted a free win. but I get it there is drama thats a whole other issue. admins shouldnt bring the drama its counter productive... This whole trend needs to stop tbh. Yes you need a couple admins to run a league but each team doesint need managers really. Were not pros were just players trying to have fun. You dont want the whole highlight of a red vs sk tourney being about 619 vs eywa its about the players
There was a lot of wasted time in the clan war due to SK not having their players ready. To me, that's equally disrespectful as taking walkover (also, read my signature  ). That's kind of aside from the point.
I don't see how using the two offenses you brought up are even remotely comparable... I mean, I hosted 4 seasons of Gambit cup, accounting for 6 round robins and 7 playoff brackets, never once did I ban someone for inquiring about the rules or suggesting they should be changed. The rules of Gambit's Cup have changed where needed, counter abuse measures were taken when it was requested in order to ensure that the league remained unbiased (You know how much drama there was to deal with when Plumbum and Pez were on me during Gambit Cup playoffs for alleged abuse by LRM?). - This SKTL drama is nothing. I should feel bad for 619 because his ego is so large, he's not willing to change anything from his creation until next season?
It's frustrating to me when I see drama like this (and I know I'm at the center of it), where the whole situation can be fixed by spending an additional 1-2 hour on the rules to make them clear and complete. When a valid suggestion comes up, there's no need to get defensive... Obviously, if I didn't care about the league at all I wouldn't even make suggestions, I would argue them until I get tossed from the channel... The whole reason I have these debates over rules is because I think the players deserve the league to be the best that it can be, something that is impossible without some healthy debate.
At this point, I'm not sure what can be done, because 619 doesn't agree with what you've posted here, he doesn't see himself as using the rules to his advantage. So if he doesn't see the problem, it's really hard to fix the problem.
P.S. If you find out that a rule isn't what you want it to be, that's fine and it's okay to change it, but you can't apply the changed rule to the immediate situation.
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No one wants me to join their clan cause I fucking suck.
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On November 27 2017 13:27 SCC-Faust wrote:
No one wants me to join their clan cause I fucking suck.
Let's start a clan. The cheesy players that suck. Come up with a name and I'm in hahaha
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damn, I remember this thread from back in the day LOL. This is golden. Anderson Barrett told me he was in the process of buying a new House and wanted me to move in with him. He even offered a member in Clan X17 a new gaming mouse/keyboard (which til' this day he still hasn't received it and claimed that he wasn't given a tracking #)
Beware of AthenA
On another note, I'm glad SK realized this and took the matters in their own hand before it got too out of hand.
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whats scc then? stupid clan chums?
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The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording. The administration is more interested in seeing all games played, rather than in clans trying their best to bend the rules in their favour, while trying to force their will over a clan. Consequently the most important rule is: Thou shall have fun and not spoil fun for others.
Add this rule from BWCL and we are good.
Watching the clock as the 15 minute mark goes and 1 second later demanding a walkover because a player is on the wrong channel is wrong.
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On November 27 2017 14:20 EndingLife wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 13:27 SCC-Faust wrote:
No one wants me to join their clan cause I fucking suck. Let's start a clan. The cheesy players that suck. Come up with a name and I'm in hahaha
I'm joining NaS, you interested?
The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording. The administration is more interested in seeing all games played, rather than in clans trying their best to bend the rules in their favour, while trying to force their will over a clan. Consequently the most important rule is: Thou shall have fun and not spoil fun for others.
Add this rule from BWCL and we are good.
Watching the clock as the 15 minute mark goes and 1 second later demanding a walkover because a player is on the wrong channel is wrong.
I understand the sentiment of: "Thou shall have fun and not spoil fun for others." I have a problem with conflating that idea with the idea of not giving walkovers. Because of the fact that there is a rule regarding this, the organization must have believed that the rule had a purpose upon creating said rule. It is only logical that if the rule was created, it must have been to deter people from forcing opponents to wait an indeterminable amount of time to get a member to play. This contradicts exactly what happened yesterday. Responsible players who appear on time should not be punished. The option of taking a walkover absolutely does not lie with the team that is irresponsible with time.
I also wouldn't put it past 619 to tell SK members to always take the walkover on opponents, as that was exactly what he told us during PATL.
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On November 27 2017 21:58 Bonyth wrote:
The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording. The administration is more interested in seeing all games played, rather than in clans trying their best to bend the rules in their favour, while trying to force their will over a clan. Consequently the most important rule is: Thou shall have fun and not spoil fun for others.
Add this rule from BWCL and we are good.
Watching the clock as the 15 minute mark goes and 1 second later demanding a walkover because a player is on the wrong channel is wrong.
Your opinion on the matter is invalid given your lack of willingness to play a match ahead of time in the Gambit Cup Winner Bracket Final. You effectively excluded iFU's TrutaCz which was your right by the rules, but that doesn't follow your so-called philosophy of "spirit of the rules".
Maybe your outlook on life has changed in the past two weeks though... Who am I to judge?
The only situations in which rules are required are those that can be morally conflicting, thats why they are rules, it's an objective standpoint that not even the league organizer can overrule without a VERY good reason.
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On November 27 2017 23:57 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 21:58 Bonyth wrote:
The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording. The administration is more interested in seeing all games played, rather than in clans trying their best to bend the rules in their favour, while trying to force their will over a clan. Consequently the most important rule is: Thou shall have fun and not spoil fun for others.
Add this rule from BWCL and we are good.
Watching the clock as the 15 minute mark goes and 1 second later demanding a walkover because a player is on the wrong channel is wrong. Your opinion on the matter is invalid given your lack of willingness to play a match ahead of time in the Gambit Cup Winner Bracket Final. You effectively excluded iFU's TrutaCz which was your right by the rules, but that doesn't follow your so-called philosophy of "spirit of the rules". Maybe your outlook on life has changed in the past two weeks though... Who am I to judge?
Quotation from Netwars: "Jeszcze jedna ważna informacja. iFU poprosiło nas o zagranie pierwszego setu na Magrathea w innym terminie (dzisiaj cały dzień lub jutro do 15:00). Jeżeli komuś nie pasuje jutrzejszy termin, może podjąć rękawicę. Jeśli tak, to proszę tę osobę o wysłanie mi prywatnej wiadomości."
U can do the google translating yourself or u can take my word for it, that I forwarded IFU's request to my team, however no one answered to that call. So please don't accuse anyone without any evidence. Or maybe that's what u do, being always on the offense, so people only defend from your accusations, therefore they look like the bad guys.
Not to mention you told Sayle that "we didn't want to reschedule" which obviously isn't true, and from that point there was a talk about karma and how bad Netwars team is. The truth is, team Netwars barely had the players to play on a regular day but it was reverted to some negative shit.
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On November 28 2017 00:09 Bonyth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2017 23:57 Eywa- wrote:On November 27 2017 21:58 Bonyth wrote:
The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording. The administration is more interested in seeing all games played, rather than in clans trying their best to bend the rules in their favour, while trying to force their will over a clan. Consequently the most important rule is: Thou shall have fun and not spoil fun for others.
Add this rule from BWCL and we are good.
Watching the clock as the 15 minute mark goes and 1 second later demanding a walkover because a player is on the wrong channel is wrong. Your opinion on the matter is invalid given your lack of willingness to play a match ahead of time in the Gambit Cup Winner Bracket Final. You effectively excluded iFU's TrutaCz which was your right by the rules, but that doesn't follow your so-called philosophy of "spirit of the rules". Maybe your outlook on life has changed in the past two weeks though... Who am I to judge? Quotation from Netwars: "Jeszcze jedna ważna informacja. iFU poprosiło nas o zagranie pierwszego setu na Magrathea w innym terminie (dzisiaj cały dzień lub jutro do 15:00). Jeżeli komuś nie pasuje jutrzejszy termin, może podjąć rękawicę. Jeśli tak, to proszę tę osobę o wysłanie mi prywatnej wiadomości." U can do the google translating yourself or u can take my word for it, that I forwarded IFU's request to my team, however no one answered to that call. So please don't accuse anyone without any evidence. Or maybe that's what u do, being always on the offense, so people only defend from your accusations, therefore they look like the bad guys.
I'm aware that you posted on Netwars. It's kind of like, when 619 asked for a pre-play in PATL, I posted in our team discord. I didn't actually try to get it done, but I posted all the same.
All I'm saying is, if there was a forced pre-play policy (like there was in Gambit Cup Throwback), you would have pre-played the match. Would you not?
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On November 28 2017 00:19 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:09 Bonyth wrote:On November 27 2017 23:57 Eywa- wrote:On November 27 2017 21:58 Bonyth wrote:
The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording. The administration is more interested in seeing all games played, rather than in clans trying their best to bend the rules in their favour, while trying to force their will over a clan. Consequently the most important rule is: Thou shall have fun and not spoil fun for others.
Add this rule from BWCL and we are good.
Watching the clock as the 15 minute mark goes and 1 second later demanding a walkover because a player is on the wrong channel is wrong. Your opinion on the matter is invalid given your lack of willingness to play a match ahead of time in the Gambit Cup Winner Bracket Final. You effectively excluded iFU's TrutaCz which was your right by the rules, but that doesn't follow your so-called philosophy of "spirit of the rules". Maybe your outlook on life has changed in the past two weeks though... Who am I to judge? Quotation from Netwars: "Jeszcze jedna ważna informacja. iFU poprosiło nas o zagranie pierwszego setu na Magrathea w innym terminie (dzisiaj cały dzień lub jutro do 15:00). Jeżeli komuś nie pasuje jutrzejszy termin, może podjąć rękawicę. Jeśli tak, to proszę tę osobę o wysłanie mi prywatnej wiadomości." U can do the google translating yourself or u can take my word for it, that I forwarded IFU's request to my team, however no one answered to that call. So please don't accuse anyone without any evidence. Or maybe that's what u do, being always on the offense, so people only defend from your accusations, therefore they look like the bad guys. I'm aware that you posted on Netwars. It's kind of like, when 619 asked for a pre-play in PATL, I posted in our team discord. I didn't actually try to get it done, but I posted all the same. All I'm saying is, if there was a forced pre-play policy (like there was in Gambit Cup Throwback), you would have pre-played the match. Would you not?
I don't know, I would still have to play the match before and in addition to that, I'd have to lead my own team the next day, which obviously is not good for me since I'd have to show up 2 times.
Not to mention more technical stuff, that I simply didn't want to play on Magrathea.
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On November 28 2017 00:21 Bonyth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 00:19 Eywa- wrote:On November 28 2017 00:09 Bonyth wrote:On November 27 2017 23:57 Eywa- wrote:On November 27 2017 21:58 Bonyth wrote:
The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording. The administration is more interested in seeing all games played, rather than in clans trying their best to bend the rules in their favour, while trying to force their will over a clan. Consequently the most important rule is: Thou shall have fun and not spoil fun for others.
Add this rule from BWCL and we are good.
Watching the clock as the 15 minute mark goes and 1 second later demanding a walkover because a player is on the wrong channel is wrong. Your opinion on the matter is invalid given your lack of willingness to play a match ahead of time in the Gambit Cup Winner Bracket Final. You effectively excluded iFU's TrutaCz which was your right by the rules, but that doesn't follow your so-called philosophy of "spirit of the rules". Maybe your outlook on life has changed in the past two weeks though... Who am I to judge? Quotation from Netwars: "Jeszcze jedna ważna informacja. iFU poprosiło nas o zagranie pierwszego setu na Magrathea w innym terminie (dzisiaj cały dzień lub jutro do 15:00). Jeżeli komuś nie pasuje jutrzejszy termin, może podjąć rękawicę. Jeśli tak, to proszę tę osobę o wysłanie mi prywatnej wiadomości." U can do the google translating yourself or u can take my word for it, that I forwarded IFU's request to my team, however no one answered to that call. So please don't accuse anyone without any evidence. Or maybe that's what u do, being always on the offense, so people only defend from your accusations, therefore they look like the bad guys. I'm aware that you posted on Netwars. It's kind of like, when 619 asked for a pre-play in PATL, I posted in our team discord. I didn't actually try to get it done, but I posted all the same. All I'm saying is, if there was a forced pre-play policy (like there was in Gambit Cup Throwback), you would have pre-played the match. Would you not? I don't know, I would still have to play the match before and in addition to that, I'd have to lead my own team the next day, which obviously is not good for me since I'd have to show up 2 times.
Exactly,
You can argue your standpoint that you would have had to show up twice and it's SUPER inconvenient for you.
And I can argue that TrutaCz deserved to play in that CW and that it's in good spirit to go out of your way to play 1 match.
That's why we have rules.
- Also, you never even proposed a different map.
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This thread just got spicy lol
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To be clear @Bonyth,
I'm not here to argue whether you're a good or a bad person and how that relates to Brood War. I'm specifically trying to get you to see the importance of rules and why "the spirit of play" doesn't constitute a rule. Each player has their own philosophy and their own things that they value in a league. If your predominant rule is "spirit of fair play", then you'll have problems more and more as the league goes on.
It's the nature of the beast, if you want to avoid problems (which seems to be 619's goal), then you put in objective rules that everyone has to follow.
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While taking the w/o at 15 is a slimy thing to do its the other teams right. If your player is playing something else at the time of the match you send another player or u let them take walkover. If they want to be slimy then you let them be slimy. In the end you have to go by the rules that are in-place. If you want to then later take a look and change the rule that is fine. I totally agree with preserving and fighting for the spirit of the game. And I do it every chance i get. But that it my choice, just as taking a w/o at 15 might be the choice someone else makes.
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I just came here to say that we decided to skip this league for a reason.
We just want to have fun and enjoy starcraft.
Without well-worded rules and well-designed format, this is impossible. Hence, team Psi decided to leave the league before it even began.
I tried to give feedback, but the answer was that if we want to participate - we will...
I believe that most of us (team leaders) have 10+ years of experience participating in leagues and matches and we can provide input worth hearing
Well, I don't want me and my team to get involved in a shitstorm.
Good luck with the struggle everyone.
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On November 27 2017 21:58 Bonyth wrote:
The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording. The administration is more interested in seeing all games played, rather than in clans trying their best to bend the rules in their favour, while trying to force their will over a clan. Consequently the most important rule is: Thou shall have fun and not spoil fun for others.
Add this rule from BWCL and we are good.
Watching the clock as the 15 minute mark goes and 1 second later demanding a walkover because a player is on the wrong channel is wrong.
This rule doesn't mean there are no options for walk overs. Then again, I'm with you when it comes to the tone of this conversation. It does take some energy to become such a "person" that feels the urge to argue about a video game in their late twenties / early thirties as if this was the most important aspect of life when, broken down, the prize pool per player is next to nothing. The imo best decision and most constructive feedback was the one of team psi: don't like it, leave, give a reason why.
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@Bonyth
619 and SK forced a walkover of us in PATL by:
- Repeatedly not responding to our requests to play early
- Answering inconclusively
- Avoiding saying anything specific
- Taking the walkover when we didn't show up because we said we couldn't, a number of times, but they just simply refused to reschedule or be conclusive in any way, just to get the win.
I could go get screenshots or whatever, but I don't have to. Bonyth, your clan leader is a well known scammy, skeevy underhanded immature whiny bitch. He's done other awesome things like smurf a noob tournament to win 30 bucks, while encouraging other clan members to do the same. He repeatedly lies and makes up false stories to support his own agenda, while never backing up his own words. He constantly complains and tries to abuse every rule he can and not take part in "The spirit of the rules should be followed, rather than the wording", which is your very own quote.
Everyone who ever deals with him on any sort of extended basis knows this. We all know what kind of person he is (it would be typical of him to be two faced), so for you to represent his clan and say that is extremely hypocritical, because SK and 619 in particular are the exact opposite of your very own words.
So, what say you then? You're on the team that the very leader does not represent your own values. Seems like a strange situation to me and likely others.
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oh man i had a word for that .. it starts with s and makes a sound like this zzzzzzzzz but i totally forgot the name ...
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On November 28 2017 05:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
oh man i had a word for that .. it starts with s and makes a sound like this zzzzzzzzz but i totally forgot the name ...
I'll take snake for $1000, Alex
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Sneaky snakes.. Sneaky snakes everywhere!
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Set 1- Bonyth
Set 2- Dewalt
Set 3- Bonyth/Quantel
Set 4- Terror
I dont understand why youre trying to claim a walk-over for set 4 before any of the games have even been played simply because the person isnt in the channel. We told you that he was finishing a best of 1 game and would be a few mins late. We didnt write the rules to so players can try and abuse them for a win. This rule is set in place so players arent waiting for their opponent that is never going to show up. In this case there was games to be played - play sets 1,2 and 3 quit being unreasonable. My decision wasnt to bend the rules to favor SK, but to encourage the games to be played and not get free walk-overs. I agree if a team is completely absent at the 15 min mark a walk-over is what is needed but I dont agree with people watching the timer waiting to disqualify someone and then furthermore trying to cause a big scene about something that shouldnt be.
You guys have volunteered to play in this league. Im confident the majority of you guys are having fun and are completely satisfied with the goal and direction but if this isnt something you care for you do not need to participate. I refuse to keep dealing with negative people, negativity spreads like cancer. I have stated multiple times im more than willing to work with certain individuals but at the end of the day if its not exactly what they want they throw a fit.
I have given Eywa fair warning and chances to being involved in the league but because of his personal issue with me he chooses to be a pain in the ass everywhere we meet. This is why you are no longer welcome to participate. I would rather not donate my time to someone like you. You want to push someones buttons until they are no longer willing to work with you and thats exactly what you have done. I have also warned you that if you continue your selfish behavior you are going to forfeit your entire team in the league. Move on, we cant work together and I have no desire in trying to make things work with you in the future.
With that being said... kapppa
I really am enjoying everyone elses participation. I talk to most of the leaders pretty frequently and its exciting to hear everyone being so competitive and taking their games seriously. I would also like to thank teams like SouL, [eF], KDV, [a.G]-A/B team managers and players for working together and getting games played either before the deadline or working around the other events that are going on in the Starcraft community. This is the kind of spirit we want to encourage. I think we have a strong foundation with the league but there is always room for improvement and thats what we will continue to do every day. Lets not get distracted in the negative and go have some fun.
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On November 28 2017 07:18 619 wrote:
Set 1- Bonyth
Set 2- Dewalt
Set 3- Bonyth/Quantel
Set 4- Terror
I dont understand why youre trying to claim a walk-over for set 4 before any of the games have even been played simply because the person isnt in the channel. We told you that he was finishing a best of 1 game and would be a few mins late. We didnt write the rules to so players can try and abuse them for a win. This rule is set in place so players arent waiting for their opponent that is never going to show up. In this case there was games to be played - play sets 1,2 and 3 quit being unreasonable. My decision wasnt to bend the rules to favor SK, but to encourage the games to be played and not get free walk-overs. I agree if a team is completely absent at the 15 min mark a walk-over is what is needed but I dont agree with people watching the timer waiting to disqualify someone and then furthermore trying to cause a big scene about something that shouldnt be.
As repeated several times by others, the problem here is that the rule says at 15 minutes they can take a walkover. It does NOT give exception to when you have a player definitely coming, but will be a few minutes late. The priority of decision goes to the team who is has a player(s) waiting to play their match against someone who is not currently present, not to the team who has the late player. You cannot make the decision for said team to promote the "spirit of the game." To reiterate, it is fine to have that sentiment, but not when it wrongly is in line with benefiting your team at the inconvenience of others. As the hosting team of this league, it would show decency on your part to be mature and have granted the walkover if the opposing team requested it, instead of being finicky over a single game.
I have given Eywa fair warning and chances to being involved in the league but because of his personal issue with me he chooses to be a pain in the ass everywhere we meet. This is why you are no longer welcome to participate. I would rather not donate my time to someone like you. You want to push someones buttons until they are no longer willing to work with you and thats exactly what you have done. I have also warned you that if you continue your selfish behavior you are going to forfeit your entire team in the league. Move on, we cant work together and I have no desire in trying to make things work with you in the future.
With that being said... kapppa
Stop conflating everyone who is in disagreement with your antics to only a single person. You mention him more than anyone, instead of looking at the issue at hand. Adding Kappa at the end gives no one relief. FYI enjoy your warning for using twitch emotes on TL.
I really am enjoying everyone elses participation. I talk to most of the leaders pretty frequently and its exciting to hear everyone being so competitive and taking their games seriously. I would also like to thank teams like SouL, [eF], KDV, [a.G]-A/B team managers and players for working together and getting games played either before the deadline or working around the other events that are going on in the Starcraft community. This is the kind of spirit we want to encourage. I think we have a strong foundation with the league but there is always room for improvement and thats what we will continue to do every day. Lets not get distracted in the negative and go have some fun.
Classic PR move, but I admire the sentiment. No problems with saying this. Insult people first, then write a complement at the end adds a nice cherry on top.
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On November 28 2017 07:18 619 wrote:
Set 1- Bonyth
Set 2- Dewalt
Set 3- Bonyth/Quantel
Set 4- Terror
I dont understand why youre trying to claim a walk-over for set 4 before any of the games have even been played simply because the person isnt in the channel. We told you that he was finishing a best of 1 game and would be a few mins late. We didnt write the rules to so players can try and abuse them for a win. This rule is set in place so players arent waiting for their opponent that is never going to show up. In this case there was games to be played - play sets 1,2 and 3 quit being unreasonable. My decision wasnt to bend the rules to favor SK, but to encourage the games to be played and not get free walk-overs. I agree if a team is completely absent at the 15 min mark a walk-over is what is needed but I dont agree with people watching the timer waiting to disqualify someone and then furthermore trying to cause a big scene about something that shouldnt be.
You guys have volunteered to play in this league. Im confident the majority of you guys are having fun and are completely satisfied with the goal and direction but if this isnt something you care for you do not need to participate. I refuse to keep dealing with negative people, negativity spreads like cancer. I have stated multiple times im more than willing to work with certain individuals but at the end of the day if its not exactly what they want they throw a fit.
I have given Eywa fair warning and chances to being involved in the league but because of his personal issue with me he chooses to be a pain in the ass everywhere we meet. This is why you are no longer welcome to participate. I would rather not donate my time to someone like you. You want to push someones buttons until they are no longer willing to work with you and thats exactly what you have done. I have also warned you that if you continue your selfish behavior you are going to forfeit your entire team in the league. Move on, we cant work together and I have no desire in trying to make things work with you in the future.
With that being said... kapppa
I really am enjoying everyone elses participation. I talk to most of the leaders pretty frequently and its exciting to hear everyone being so competitive and taking their games seriously. I would also like to thank teams like SouL, [eF], KDV, [a.G]-A/B team managers and players for working together and getting games played either before the deadline or working around the other events that are going on in the Starcraft community. This is the kind of spirit we want to encourage. I think we have a strong foundation with the league but there is always room for improvement and thats what we will continue to do every day. Lets not get distracted in the negative and go have some fun.
I'm not playing in your league and have no interest to do so, so take this as you wish, but what's the point of setting rules for a tournament and not enforcing them? How would taking a walkover be considered taking a free win, if it's in the rules?
If the rules aren't being enforced fairly, what's the point of having rules in the first place..
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i only played 1 sktl but all matches are played at the same time?. sk vs nas was not done one at a time
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On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved.
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On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved.
While this may be fun, do not allow a single rotten apple spoil the rest in the bunch.
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On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved.
I know several players who've already quit due to lack of quality in events and lack of quality in the ladder. This is necessary drama if you want good events that will lead to growth.
Generally, speaking from experience in organizing events, organizers who quit due to drama are usually already doing more harm than good at the time where they quit.
This is definitely true for me, I built up events and leagues that gained quite a following in the community, but at the end when people were going nuts, they had good reason to. One thing that I've learned as an organizer and a manager is to take drama the same way you would take constructive criticism... It's hard, believe me, it's hard. This is how you fix up your events.
There aren't many recent comparables for team events, but GC:T and GC4 are good examples in that, the rules were changed 3 times (after the events) following drama - not as a crackdown, but more as a "hmm, this guy might have a point, there should be a rule allowing or disallowing this". If you deal with drama that way, it doesn't tend to spread.
If you're waiting for someone to tell you politely how to fix your event and have a healthy discussion to the point of mutual agreement, forget about it, it's just not going to happen. The goal isn't for the organization to like and agree with all of their rules, it's for the teams and players to enjoy them and to create a good atmosphere.
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On November 28 2017 23:03 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved. I know several players who've already quit due to lack of quality in events and lack of quality in the ladder. This is necessary drama if you want good events that will lead to growth. Generally, speaking from experience in organizing events, organizers who quit due to drama are usually already doing more harm than good at the time where they quit. This is definitely true for me, I built up events and leagues that gained quite a following in the community, but at the end when people were going nuts, they had good reason to. One thing that I've learned as an organizer and a manager is to take drama the same way you would take constructive criticism... It's hard, believe me, it's hard. This is how you fix up your events. There aren't many recent comparables for team events, but GC:T and GC4 are good examples in that, the rules were changed 3 times (after the events) following drama - not as a crackdown, but more as a "hmm, this guy might have a point, there should be a rule allowing or disallowing this". If you deal with drama that way, it doesn't tend to spread. If you're waiting for someone to tell you politely how to fix your event and have a healthy discussion to the point of mutual agreement, forget about it, it's just not going to happen. The goal isn't for the organization to like and agree with all of their rules, it's for the teams and players to enjoy them and to create a good atmosphere.
Theres a huge difference between what you have done all season, and constructive criticisms. Do you realize you have been the only participant starting issues with the league since day 1? This kind of drama is completely unnecessary and companies or organizations do not grow from negativity. Dont try and brush your attempt to completely shit on any event that you aren't hosting and pretend your trying to do this for the good of the community. I have had open dialogue with every team leader and instead of using the resources you where provided you chose to bring things up in public arguments and try and shame any idea that doesn't conveniently fit your agenda. Like the person mentioned about not only does this drive any organizers away, but it also drives any companies away that are willing to offer support for LAN events and tournaments in the future.
There is 191 members/coaches participating in this league. I know not every person is going to be completely satisfied but 190 people have been adult enough to have open conversation, and I believe I have addressed most, if not all issues.
On November 28 2017 22:49 Demurity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved. While this may be fun, do not allow a single rotten apple spoil the rest in the bunch.
What exactly have you done for the community Demurity? In the last 6 months not only have I donated 1000+ hrs hosting events and tournaments, but with the SKTL included I have also given nearly $3,000 in tournament payouts. When nobody was hosting any events, I was there every week.
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On November 29 2017 01:20 619 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 23:03 Eywa- wrote:On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved. I know several players who've already quit due to lack of quality in events and lack of quality in the ladder. This is necessary drama if you want good events that will lead to growth. Generally, speaking from experience in organizing events, organizers who quit due to drama are usually already doing more harm than good at the time where they quit. This is definitely true for me, I built up events and leagues that gained quite a following in the community, but at the end when people were going nuts, they had good reason to. One thing that I've learned as an organizer and a manager is to take drama the same way you would take constructive criticism... It's hard, believe me, it's hard. This is how you fix up your events. There aren't many recent comparables for team events, but GC:T and GC4 are good examples in that, the rules were changed 3 times (after the events) following drama - not as a crackdown, but more as a "hmm, this guy might have a point, there should be a rule allowing or disallowing this". If you deal with drama that way, it doesn't tend to spread. If you're waiting for someone to tell you politely how to fix your event and have a healthy discussion to the point of mutual agreement, forget about it, it's just not going to happen. The goal isn't for the organization to like and agree with all of their rules, it's for the teams and players to enjoy them and to create a good atmosphere. Theres a huge difference between what you have done all season, and constructive criticisms. Do you realize you have been the only participant starting issues with the league since day 1? This kind of drama is completely unnecessary and companies or organizations do not grow from negativity. Dont try and brush your attempt to completely shit on any event that you aren't hosting and pretend your trying to do this for the good of the community. I have had open dialogue with every team leader and instead of using the resources you where provided you chose to bring things up in public arguments and try and shame any idea that doesn't conveniently fit your agenda. Like the person mentioned about not only does this drive any organizers away, but it also drives any companies away that are willing to offer support for LAN events and tournaments in the future. There is 191 members/coaches participating in this league. I know not every person is going to be completely satisfied but 190 people have been adult enough to have open conversation, and I believe I have addressed most, if not all issues. Show nested quote +On November 28 2017 22:49 Demurity wrote:On November 28 2017 20:08 deus_073 wrote:
On one hand I love the drama. On the other, this may be bad for BW. Seeing so many issues might make people get less involved. While this may be fun, do not allow a single rotten apple spoil the rest in the bunch. What exactly have you done for the community Demurity? In the last 6 months not only have I donated 1000+ hrs hosting events and tournaments, but with the SKTL included I have also given nearly $3,000 in tournament payouts. When nobody was hosting any events, I was there every week.
I'm far from the only person questioning the event and the rules. It's fair to say that no one is questioning the rules to the same extent as me. Though, my last post wasn't even negatively targeting you, it was more of a general note on organizers who have left the community in the past due to drama, they're often negatively contributing by the time they leave, that's not a comment on you currently.
I've seen this book play out before as a participant in the story and as an external viewer, it's always the same thing. It's unfortunate that I don't know how to express my thoughts in a way that won't offend you. I don't want to be the bad guy here, I'm just trying to get what's fair for the players and everyone participating in this league. I want it to be a league where the players who chose not to participate can feel bad about their decision, I want every foreign brood war league to be that league.
It's a shame because I'm not trying to offend you, but there's absolutely nothing that I can say (much less now) that you will take constructively.
Also, I think it's super unfair to say that I shit on all leagues that aren't mine.
I think TL Open is super well run and I think SK Weekly tours are as well. They both seem to run smoothly and I can't see issues with either of them. They both contribute very nicely for the community.
I think ZOTAC and ESL had significant issues which they've been working on addressing as they go forward, they are adapting as much as they can to the needs of the community.
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The difference between TL and ZOTAC is your approach to those organizations is much different than your approach with me. Also these organizers wouldn't put up with your shit at all period. You can pretend all you want, but the reason why we don't get along is because of a PATL disagreement. You chose to participate in this event and if this isn't something you want to do then i can dismiss the entire team and create much less headaches. I have told you and everyone that this is Season 1 and this is my first time hosting a team league for the Starcraft scene so there will be growing pains and things that change so we can come with the best competitive experience in the future. Season 1 has been full of changes that support what the players are asking for so lets not pretend nothing has been done all season.
Again, I have given you the opportunity to have open conversation with me and I also tried to smooth any issues we had in the past directly in your private message. Instead of dealing with this like an adult you have to come and try and make me look like shit publicly. I have given you the resources to handle this in a professional manner and you chose not too. Your unwilling to work with me, and because of that I am unwilling to work with you.
If something changes in the future and you want to talk to me, send me a discord message. Im not an unreasonable person and I'd prefer to not have enemies. If we can resolve the issue and work together that would bring the biggest benefit to the community - the balls in your court you chose what you want to do.
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I do appreciate your compliment about the SK Weekly Tournament, its something the staff and I have taken serious for some time and we are excited to bring awesome content to the community every week. Thanks for everyones participation and support.
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What exactly have you done for the community Demurity? In the last 6 months not only have I donated 1000+ hrs hosting events and tournaments, but with the SKTL included I have also given nearly $3,000 in tournament payouts. When nobody was hosting any events, I was there every week.
Youve asked me the same question for the same argument to me several times now. What youre doing is measuring self-worth using the metric youve chosen, time contributed hosting events. If I were to ask: how many people would rather play/hang out with me over you? Well then I think we have a moot point.
Also, I cant do 1000+ hours in 6 months because I have a full time job. Apparently, those numbers youve put in average to 41.66 hrs/week, equivalent to a full time job.
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Listen this isnt a popularity battle - I have two full-time jobs and work as much as you more more while still managing to find the time to provide quality content for the community. Again what have you done in the last 6 months?
Experience- Overall it has been a great experiences for the players and we have developed a respected ongoing weekly tournament. During this time we have paid nearly $2,000 in winnings and have had zero issues with payouts.
Advantage- When we started doing this for the community we where literally the only tournament happening aside from ASL. We also have developed several relationships with companies that will support our vision and benefit the community when it comes to future events and tournaments.
I have stated multiple times that I am far from perfect and there will be things I can do to change and improve. With that being said I also hold far more weight in the positive experience and advantages I have brought to the community then I have done to wrong anybody. These things are not possible without time/money so when you measure self-worth to a community/organization those metrics have to be highly valued.
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Its a matter of cost-benefit; each person chooses what they value-- you cannot control this. Simply put, is the cost of having a corrupt org run by a snake worth having a league? Some people agree via participation in the league, and some dont by way of exiting. It isnt wise to regard yourself in high esteem and ignore those who disappprove, while saying youre doing everything you can to improve. This hypocrisy is exactly why I had left SK the first time, then you turned around and begged me to come back while apologizing. To reiterate, I enjoyed playing and spending time with the SK members, but I think youre the only one holding yourself back from actually getting people to want to help you.
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On November 29 2017 03:29 Demurity wrote:
Its a matter of cost-benefit; each person chooses what they value-- you cannot control this. Simply put, is the cost of having a corrupt org run by a snake worth having a league? Some people agree via participation in the league, and some dont by way of exiting. It isnt wise to regard yourself in high esteem and ignore those who disappprove, while saying youre doing everything you can to improve. This hypocrisy is exactly why I had left SK the first time, then you turned around and begged me to come back while apologizing. To reiterate, I enjoyed playing and spending time with the SK members, but I think youre the only one holding yourself back from actually getting people to want to help you.
I will take your feedback into condsideration, thank you.
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i think i have some old pokemon and yugioh cards that are pretty rare and should fetch a pretty penny when i sell ill contribute to the prize pool
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Did I hear... hockey cards?
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On November 29 2017 04:52 Siz)Beggar wrote:
i think i have some old pokemon and yugioh cards that are pretty rare and should fetch a pretty penny when i sell ill contribute to the prize pool
You could, though I think for MOST Pokemon cards, they are far more valuable when they are in the meta, once they roll out of standard, a lot of them drop in value... Except the ones that gain the "collectible" value - but it would have to be mint condition.
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On November 29 2017 04:52 Siz)Beggar wrote:
i think i have some old pokemon and yugioh cards that are pretty rare and should fetch a pretty penny when i sell ill contribute to the prize pool
If they are 1st Edition Base Set holographic cards, you might have something here.
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Good god I wish I never lost my holographic hitmonlee
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The expert weighs in from experience!
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I had a huge base set collection back in the day. 150+ holographic cards, a few first edition holos and a lot of rare promo cards. I gave them to my nephew some time ago.. Time to be an Indian giver to fund BW tournaments!
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(copypasta'd from my discord post)
Hey guys, I along with the SK team would like to inform you all that as of now, I am assuming the position of being the official go-between for you guys and the SKTL leadership. If you guys have any questions about anything, grievances to express, or suggestions please feel free to hit me up. Additionally, with 619 I intend to assist with avoiding any further negative feelings about the way the league is being managed. I intend to do this by having an open and ongoing dialogue with team leaders/managers to avoid seemingly unilateral decision making going forward. I obviously can't guarantee total capitulation to every individual complaint, but will make sure the opinions of the community and participants are factored in when decisions are being made. I also will to the best of my abilities keep you guys informed of any ideas or changes that may be made AHEAD of their implementation, so your thoughts and impressions can be taken into account and considered as part of the decision making process.
Also how did this thread become about pokemon cards.
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On November 29 2017 07:02 EndingLife wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2017 04:52 Siz)Beggar wrote:
i think i have some old pokemon and yugioh cards that are pretty rare and should fetch a pretty penny when i sell ill contribute to the prize pool If they are 1st Edition Base Set holographic cards, you might have something here.
bro they are the original from when they came out with the red and blue packs back in the 90s
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On November 29 2017 09:29 docholiday_tv wrote:
(copypasta'd from my discord post)
Hey guys, I along with the SK team would like to inform you all that as of now, I am assuming the position of being the official go-between for you guys and the SKTL leadership. If you guys have any questions about anything, grievances to express, or suggestions please feel free to hit me up. Additionally, with 619 I intend to assist with avoiding any further negative feelings about the way the league is being managed. I intend to do this by having an open and ongoing dialogue with team leaders/managers to avoid seemingly unilateral decision making going forward. I obviously can't guarantee total capitulation to every individual complaint, but will make sure the opinions of the community and participants are factored in when decisions are being made. I also will to the best of my abilities keep you guys informed of any ideas or changes that may be made AHEAD of their implementation, so your thoughts and impressions can be taken into account and considered as part of the decision making process.
Also how did this thread become about pokemon cards.
This should be done at the stage of planning. Not mid season. Ridiculous :D
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On November 29 2017 18:29 BlueStar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2017 09:29 docholiday_tv wrote:
(copypasta'd from my discord post)
Hey guys, I along with the SK team would like to inform you all that as of now, I am assuming the position of being the official go-between for you guys and the SKTL leadership. If you guys have any questions about anything, grievances to express, or suggestions please feel free to hit me up. Additionally, with 619 I intend to assist with avoiding any further negative feelings about the way the league is being managed. I intend to do this by having an open and ongoing dialogue with team leaders/managers to avoid seemingly unilateral decision making going forward. I obviously can't guarantee total capitulation to every individual complaint, but will make sure the opinions of the community and participants are factored in when decisions are being made. I also will to the best of my abilities keep you guys informed of any ideas or changes that may be made AHEAD of their implementation, so your thoughts and impressions can be taken into account and considered as part of the decision making process.
Also how did this thread become about pokemon cards. This should be done at the stage of planning. Not mid season. Ridiculous :D
It's never too early or too late to try to improve your league. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of this change, that's more important than the change itself.
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@Clan SK TV, can you please post in the thread when the week 3 VODs are uploaded to youtube with a link?
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On November 29 2017 23:31 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2017 18:29 BlueStar wrote:On November 29 2017 09:29 docholiday_tv wrote:
(copypasta'd from my discord post)
Hey guys, I along with the SK team would like to inform you all that as of now, I am assuming the position of being the official go-between for you guys and the SKTL leadership. If you guys have any questions about anything, grievances to express, or suggestions please feel free to hit me up. Additionally, with 619 I intend to assist with avoiding any further negative feelings about the way the league is being managed. I intend to do this by having an open and ongoing dialogue with team leaders/managers to avoid seemingly unilateral decision making going forward. I obviously can't guarantee total capitulation to every individual complaint, but will make sure the opinions of the community and participants are factored in when decisions are being made. I also will to the best of my abilities keep you guys informed of any ideas or changes that may be made AHEAD of their implementation, so your thoughts and impressions can be taken into account and considered as part of the decision making process.
Also how did this thread become about pokemon cards. This should be done at the stage of planning. Not mid season. Ridiculous :D It's never too early or too late to try to improve your league. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of this change, that's more important than the change itself.
Better late than never, right?
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On November 29 2017 23:38 Eywa- wrote:
@Clan SK TV, can you please post in the thread when the week 3 VODs are uploaded to youtube with a link?
Honestly wont get around to it until I return but the multi-stream/upload to YT is being worked on. If you want to see the VOD's you can go directly to our Twitch for now http://twitch.tv/clansk_tv they are still saved.
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On November 27 2017 12:34 sicklucker wrote:
psyonic reaver tried his best but he failed and lost interest really fast, he also tried to do to much I knew that leauge was falling from day 1 sktl is doing the same thing but there alot more motivated and can learn from the formers mistakes like a sorter season since you know half the teams are going to disband anyway.
I didn't lose interest although I can see from a point of view why it would appear that way.
It was disheartening to see so many teams and players simply give up after the first few weeks because of losing/ego issues. It was not unexpected, I just did not think it would be so excessive.
I don't think PATL was a failure. It had it's rough spots and was definitely a learning experience. I have notes for PATL 2, which will happen in 2018 but not as soon as I hoped. Halfway through PATL 1 there were some family things coming up that I decided took precedent over the League, sadly I did not have the foresight to heavily involve another admin. I cut back on things I was pushing as mandatory and tried to leave it more up to the casters/players to work out themselves. Most of the time it went smoothly and for the few times it did not, I stepped in. I would say the team captains and the players did more self moderation and running of the League than I ever did directly. PATL ran itself. There were clear cut rules, timelines and expectations. Things got a little heated now and then but nothing outrageous I feel.
I see that this league is suffering from many of the same problems as PATL. First and foremost I tried my best to remain neutral in PATL. That is why I did not play in PATL although I really wanted to initially. Not everyone may see it that way and I can understand and accept that.
I've seen my name mentioned here and in other places about stepping in for whatever reason to help. That's the only reason I'm here responding but I felt I had reach back out to sicklurker. Sorry for the bloated opening.
To the point.
This is not my league and 619 has a right to run it as he sees fit, so either buck up and play or don't. Sometimes leagues are AND will be unfair, even blatantly WTF unfair. All Gaming tournaments, especially SC1/SC2, all have those moments. I saw it many times as a caster in my heyday.
The only advice I can offer is let it go in the moment and play on. Document what occurs and voice concern as needed but name calling and acting childish never solves anything. Let me be clear I am not pointing fingers at anyone and the best we can do for this game is treat it with respect and those that still play it with respect. If this game is to survive past when all of us die, it must be respected as the masterpiece it is such as the likes of chess or Go.
Now there will always be individuals that may lose respect but let that be based upon a multitude of actions, not singular one offs. Running AND playing in a league is hard. Admins having to balance an issue between two clans. Clan leaders trying to keep their players Interested... Every aspect is difficult and the best we can do is always try to keep a calm head.
Good luck to all in SKTL.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/2yy2reV.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/52Ark8i.jpg)
