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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
On August 22 2006 12:37 Jathin wrote: Yes, that's called adaptability. @ the person who said why fix something that isn't broken -- C Game 1: Nal_rA > Oov @ Rush Hour III C Winner's: Nal_rA > StOrk @ The Eye B Game 1: Nal_rA > ChOJJa @ The Eye B Winner's Game 1: Yooi > Nal_rA @ Arcadia B Winner's Game 2: Nal_rA > Yooi @ 815 III B Winner's Game 3: Nal_rA > Yooi @ Pringles the Eye Game 1: Nal_rA > Kingdom @ Pringles The Eye Game 2: Nal_rA > Kingdom @ Arcadia Game 3: Nal_rA > Kingdom @ 815 III Players in the MSL he never faced: Boxer GoRush Terato Reach Rainbow Pusan Midas Mumyung Rumble It's hard for me to safely say rA is back and doing well/competing with other people actively when it seems a majority of his games were a breeze. His hard ones were facing oov, Stork, and Chojja (all of which he only had to play 1 game against). The rest were kind of pushovers. He won majority his PvT's when you said he was getting smacked around because he can't adapt, which doesn't make sense. Since he went out of both msl/osl to zergs, maybe he should be adapting his PvZ instead? And the only players from that list that Ra wouldn't have beat imo are Reach and Midas. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
On August 22 2006 12:42 Jathin wrote: Did you watch the series between him and Kingdom? Kingdom got absolutely assfucked. ffs he tried going 1base carriers and got raped with his pants down. That was by far the most dissapointing series I've watched in that MSL. I'm not saying Kingdom's a pushover in general, I'm saying that particular series sure as hell was. I definately agree. But that 1 base carrier was because of what Reach did ~_~. Honestly that was probably the worst series Kingdom played in his whole career. And Ra really would have easily beat Reach imo. Kingdom took down Reach, close, barely, but did. Then Ra proceeded to out devil the devil himself. | ||
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
On August 22 2006 14:39 SuperJongMan wrote: I definately agree. But that 1 base carrier was because of what Reach did ~_~. Honestly that was probably the worst series Kingdom played in his whole career. And Ra really would have easily beat Reach imo. Kingdom took down Reach, close, barely, but did. Then Ra proceeded to out devil the devil himself. Don't think so. It wouldn't have been easy that's for sure since both players are the best PVPers. Reach already beat Kingdom once that msl and if he had played the tie breaker straight up he would have won again imo. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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TheGreatOne
United States534 Posts
On August 22 2006 05:31 Jathin wrote: Stork upsets me. He has streaks of brilliant play, then just makes horrible horrible mistakes. His PvZ is weak and he is very susceptible to vulture harassment in PvT (he doesn't like making cannons really). I also left rA and Reach out. I was starting to gain a lot of faith in rA after seeing him beat oov with solid play (this was before oov was recognized as slumping), but the rest of the season disappointed me. Esp. the final against IPXZerg. I expected IPX to win, but not as easily as he did. Really I'm a bigger fan of new-talent than I am the old. The new guys are all younger and innovative in their styles. Most of the older players stick to their old style and just get smacked around. When was the last time you saw Reach/rA go arbiters against a T? That was something that was emphasized greatly during the Neo-Toss era of Anytime/PuSan/Stork and shown to be very effective, but Reach/rA didn't even attempt to adopt any of those concepts. Not to mention as of late Reach's PvZ has been nothing but disappointing. Anytime/PuSan/Bisu[Shield] I think we will see good performance in the near future. As far as Tester[gm], I think he'll be kind of like Canata -- it'll take a while for him to burst out into his potential. Either that or he'll just die out like Mumyung. I agree with you on most parts except the fact that I think the old toss are adapting and adapting good if you haven't seen any of ra's new pvt's you might not notice that he goes arbiters every time games vs nada at the blizzcon he did it.. and more recent games he has like vs Rhythm[gm]. In fact I can see a major improvment in ra's pvt and pvp. But the consequence of this is he might of lost practice in his pvz and hes lost his edge in that that is for sure. When was the last time ra lost to a zerg 3-1 even ? On August 21 2006 14:01 Jathin wrote: Anytime is my favorite P player. I've never seen anyone with as much control as him. P players: 1. Anytime -- very, very controlled. His micro is incredible, but he knows when to cut micro and focus on macro. Also very innovative. 2. PuSan -- around the time of So1 he was very sloppy and a choke artist, but now he's awesome. Comes up with great builds and has good control. 3. Bisu -- sloppier micro than PuSan, but equal to/better macro (yes, I said it!) His macro is just ridiculously good. He tends to try to flood the opponent into a gg, which really limits him as far as matchups (he'll get raped PVZ). Hopefully after some work he'll become as good as PuSan. 4. Tester -- give him time, he has potential to become very good. His PVT has always been top-notch, and his PVZ has definite potential considering his amazing micro. Watch the 2006 SKY Proleague of eNature vs. Lecaf Oz if you want to see his PVZ potential. The attack at 8:08 was incredible. I didn't think he'd be able to even get through, but he did and was able to dish out a significant amount of damage while he was at it. I agree with most of this except that bisu[shield]'s best mu is pvz. He had a what 80% pvz win rate on pgtour which is damn impressive considering he was playing all the top zergs and won a Season at ultimate rank. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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ChApFoU
France2983 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On August 21 2006 13:51 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kind of like how you think Ret is going to win everyone in Sandlot even though hes inactive? And even when hes fully active hes beatable. I'm convinced he will be one of the toughest people there to beat (obviously not as tough as Dove or Draco, but tough). I've seen some recent games (past month) of him vs "gosus" and I've watched him make them look easy, as if they are the ones who have been away from SC and not him. And this is exactly where my point comes in...those people who are "gosu" who he rolled over really can't be all that gosu if somebody who hasn't been playing can trounce them like that. Testie has been fucking around for pretty much a year now. Just watch as he will prove himself to be one of the 5's in skill. Mondragon too. Guys like Testie/Mondi/Ret are just on another level. They come back from long periods of inactivity, play a few games, and suddenly everyone's losing to them. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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Purind
Canada3562 Posts
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ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
On August 23 2006 10:25 Purind wrote: OK, Anytime definitely has a better shot than Casy. Remember guys, even though Casy's on a hotstreak, that hotstreak won him an OSL, so he's gonna drop out of this one. I agree.  | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Im just saying Mortality.. Ret is simply amazing yes i agree. In fact when hes in top form id call him top 1-3 non korean.. but the top non koreans can ALL beat each other around. Nobody utterly dominates anybody up there except Mondragon > P and Sen > T. Saying Ret will roll everyone over is exactly the same kind of blind and unfound faith you were claiming the korean crowds of having. Ret was in top shape in TLT and he didnt get what, top 16? | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On August 23 2006 11:12 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Testie is playing fairly hard core atm. Im just saying Mortality.. Ret is simply amazing yes i agree. In fact when hes in top form id call him top 1-3 non korean.. but the top non koreans can ALL beat each other around. Nobody utterly dominates anybody up there except Mondragon > P and Sen > T. Saying Ret will roll everyone over is exactly the same kind of blind and unfound faith you were claiming the korean crowds of having. Ret was in top shape in TLT and he didnt get what, top 16? Well I see your point and I will do two things. The first is to say that I think in the past two posts prior to this one you just made we were talking past each other. The second is to take what you just said a step further... At this point, it's unambiguously true that anyone can beat anyone provided they are even within a mile of each other in skill. Oov, Midas and July are far beyond any of the top foreigners in skill, but virtually any of the foreigners there are capable of pulling an upset win, and some of them are quite capable of pulling a 2-1 or even 2-0 upset win to knock those guys out! So of course it is true that even the best players can get knocked around, but when it comes to viewing two players in a showdown, I'll deal in the odds. Ret might get beaten up, but the odds are that he will roll over anyone who isn't a 4 or a 5, and he may roll over some of them as well. He's been that kind of a persistent threat over the years, and the non-Korean community is starting to turn stale (what with WCG slots getting taken away and more and more top players going over to poker). And while you may talk about Ret not getting top 16, what about you? You DID make top 16 TLT 2, but you have yet to even qualify for top 16 in WCG USA. You of all people, someone with rather peculiar tournament results and someone who has won Liquibet that a lot can happen in a tournament and that dealing in odds is about the only thing you can do. About the progaming scene, I'm not so much talking about the Korean fans since I don't know too many of them. I think a lot of people who post on here engage in fanaticism in their unyielding support for their past heroes, bandwagoning of their new ones and their grudging of those who thwart their heroes or otherwise do well that they don't like. To some extent all of us here (including me) are like this, but some of the things people say... just wow. A lot of the fanboism out there is just irrational. You are looking at me in this light, but I could careless about Ret -- I'm judging him by recent results from practice games, his past tournament results, his behavior (he has always played on again / off again yet he more or less always stands out as a star), and the overall shape of the non-Korean community. And I am taking a bit of a gamble in what I say, I'll admit. I'm taking the gamble that he will even bother looking at that maps. I'm taking the gamble that he will even bother looking at who his opponents will be. But I know that he has both the resources and the resourcefulness to make himself a presence. And look at this thread. People think Shinhwa and Zergman are "dogshit" players. Well I've got news -- they wouldn't have done so well against the players they faced if they were. You have people on both lines of the Anytime thing...Anytime is obviously a good player, but he is by no means anywhere near how good Ra was in 2003/2004. Ra was a persistent threat in both leagues. Anytime performed well in one league, once. Anytime is doing pretty well in SKY, yeah, but still no MSL appearance and it's dubious to think he has carried Lecaf as well as NaDa carried Pantech this past season or as well as Ra did for KTF in all those ace match games. Bisu is an amazing player, but his performance in this league will be very deciding -- he's untested in the pro ring. Still, some players take longer to come out of their shell than others. Canata, Casy, Jju and Zergman are all examples of players that took some time to really develop into a presence, very unlike NaDa who just flatout stormed onto the scene like the tornado they call him. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
You went above and beyond the statement. Not a real debate here, i was more calling you hypocritical and your comming here justifying the hypocrisy. Thats fine, i didnt say you were "wrong" or that you are retarded. I was more saying 2 things: 1. your a hypocrite. 2. I think Ret WONT tear through the tourney like you predicted. You seem to concede both, so my issue here is done. PS: i got 1 and 2 in my WCG prelims but than had college obligations that did not allow me to go to regionals in Cali or NY. Using my WCG epxerience as some kind of readout on my skill is flawed i would think. Nobody mentioned WCG.. how does it pertain to a online tourney like Sandlot? | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
1.) It's obvious everyone has their own biases in who they think is good, but there is a difference between fanboism and making an attempt at an objective opinion. I gave you the conditions by which I judged Ret. 2.) I explained that anything is possible, but went on further to explain why I think Ret will tear through his competition as I originally predicted. My turn on you had nothing to do with an attack on your skill and everything (when taken in conjuction with your Liquibet victory) to do with showing why you of all people should recognize that flukes can occur. As it turns out I was mistaken in thinking that you had not won this year, but I am certain that last year you did not win your prelim despite being mentioned by many people as one of the favorites to do well at the WCG USA Finals. I am aware that second place was good enough to move to the next level as I had third place in my prelim and moved on to regionals, and I was not attacking that. I reiterate: "You of all people, someone with rather peculiar tournament results and someone who has won Liquibet that a lot can happen in a tournament and that dealing in odds is about the only thing you can do." I contest that: 1.) My opinion on how Ret will perform is based on sound evidence including but not limited to recent games played against opponents including but not limited (be careful to note the double use of the phrase) to ArtOfGlory (who is okay, but worse than most Sandlot participants) and Dream.t)Orion (who would rape almost anyone at Sandlot in a bo7 very badly). 2.) Ret will tear through pretty much anyone who isn't a 5 in skill. Your attacks on not only my opinions but on me as a person reflect exactly why I was hesitant to post even as much as I did. There is much less of a difference between you and the other people here as you may you think. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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tKd_
United States2916 Posts
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