EPTGroup A: Casy > Anytime
Group B: Chojja > Jihyun
Group C: YellOw > TT
Group D: JJu > Rock
Group E: Zergman > Firebathero
Group F: Iris > Cloud
OGN Group selection
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
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priceless
Sweden540 Posts
Group A: Casy > Anytime Group B: Chojja > Jihyun Group C: YellOw > TT Group D: JJu > Rock Group E: Zergman > Firebathero Group F: Iris > Cloud | ||
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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AyOnY
Pitcairn1026 Posts
G.A: Casy[T] > Anytime[P] G.B: Chojja[Z] > Jihyun[Z??] G.C: YellOw[Z] > TT[P] G.D: JJu[Z] > Rock[P] G.E: Zergman[Z] > Firebathero[T] G.F: Iris[T] > CLoud[T] | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Group A from Shinhan 2005 revival right here jihyun = z he got cannon rushed by Pusan on RoV a couple ODT's ago... he got totally raped like a bnet pubbie | ||
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zonbi
Hungary514 Posts
GE: Jy[Z] > NaDa [T] (he's not firebathero he is Sea.Jy) GD: TheROCK [P] > Canata [T] GC: TT [P] > Shine[NamE] GB: JiHyun [Z] > Bisu [P] GA: Anytime [P] > midas [T] | ||
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Cedric
Hungary186 Posts
B: [z] ChoJJa -> [z] JiHyun -> [p] Bisu -> C: [z] Yell0w -> [p] TT -> [t] Shine -> D: [z] JJu -> [p] TheRock -> [t] Canata -> E: [z] ZergMan -> [z] Sea.jy -> [t] Nada -> F: [t] IriS -> [t] Cloud -> [z] GoRush -> | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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zonbi
Hungary514 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/MAIN/2006/08/FFMAIN20060818202119001.JPG) grow some balls midas and choose a real opponent, like july | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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priceless
Sweden540 Posts
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Beamo
France1279 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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Beamo
France1279 Posts
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Cedric
Hungary186 Posts
B: [z] ChoJJa -> [z] JiHyun -> [p] Bisu -> [t] Firebathero C: [z] Yell0w -> [p] TT -> [t] Shine -> [t] GoodFriend D: [z] JJu -> [p] TheRock -> [t] Canata -> [t] Sea E: [z] ZergMan -> [z] Sea.jy -> [t] Nada -> [t] Light F: [t] IriS -> [t] Cloud -> [z] GoRush -> [z] GGPlay | ||
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AyOnY
Pitcairn1026 Posts
GoRush or YellOw for OSL plz;; | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
B is average, easy pickings for chojja C is lame D is interesting (canata and sea  )E is boring (nada ftw) F is just plain shitty TvT ftw -.-;;;!!! | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
Groups i like A because it has the best players.E because of Nada and Jy. And F cause of Gorush. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
Gosh cant wait for this and MSL to start. Im genuinely pumped! Also I wouldnt say any of these groups are downright shitty, its not like there are 3 T's in one of them or the players had genuinely more interesting choices to make. This OSL just happens to have tons of newcomers or near-newcomers. So I think it kinda ends up looking like Dual Tournament or something. | ||
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Raidern
Brazil3811 Posts
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Beamo
France1279 Posts
On August 18 2006 04:52 Plexa wrote: A is fucking cool! yay gg's!! B is average, easy pickings for chojja C is lame D is interesting (canata and sea )E is boring (nada ftw) F is just plain shitty TvT ftw -.-;;;!!! I don't agree on everything :/ ok for A B is the weakest, should be no match for Chojja C is an other KTF win D is interesting E is a Nada all win F is the group of inconsistant players ! Gorush has shown he could beat anyone but also lose to about anyone, Cloud is known as the Giant Killer, Iris did pretty well in the last 2OSL but not anywhere else (maybe proleague ?), GGPlay is GGPlay | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
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KorvspaD
Sweden468 Posts
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TomciO
Poland414 Posts
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
Anyway, this Starleague won't be very fun unless the P's show some nice tricks (Bisu !@#). But I doubt they will. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27168 Posts
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
b - chojja+bisu c - yellow+gf d - canata+sea e - nada+jy f - iris+gorush | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 18 2006 05:17 Jathin wrote: Hes deader than dead my friend...Don't be so quick to rule Anytime out. His PVT is top-calibur. Potentially one of the best PVT's next to PuSan and (potentially) Bisu[Shield]. If anyone can beat Midas PVT in this Starleague, it's Anytime. Casy will also be very hard to beat, but Anytime's PVT far surpasses his PVZ. I'd say he has a better shot against Casy/Midas than he would against any zerg one step down from that level. his pvt is actually really bad as of late.. he lost to Light[alive] on 815... 815 ffs x.x and light isnt even a big name terran midas will chew him up for breakfast | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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SP)diQ
1107 Posts
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Wasabi
United States3085 Posts
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oshibori_probe
United States2934 Posts
roflmao jathin zergs are flaming vaginas rofl | ||
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Wasabi
United States3085 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
Anytime can easily beat Casy, and vice versa. However... I am sorta worried about Casy. His qualification will boil down to Midas vs Casy imo. He can beat July. He can beat Anytime. But can he beat Midas? Group B has the two people who raped Boxer, FBHero and Bisu. I honestly don't care much but I look forward to seeing what Bisu can do vs Chojja and JiHyun. I like My PvZs. I think group C is gonna be interesting. Shine has shown some good play in the past. While not amazing, he's someone who can do pretty good at a SL, plus he IS a terran -_-;; TT is a Zerg Killer.... and a 2v2 player -_-;; But I would actually like to see what he can do. I doubt much.. afterall he is a mediocre vet. Yellow and GF... Yellow just found his groove again and I hope he RAPES his SL up. GF.. eh. Group D is a fun group. Jju vs Rock will be awesome. Jju crushed Sea the last time they played. Jju vs Canata I have yet to see.... OMG it's gonna be sweet. Rock is capable but not.. I know you know what I mean by that. And Canata is in his first SL, he might revert back and choke, altho recently he's been pretty hot hot hot. I honestly think Sea will not make it out from his group. Zergman, dead. Nada is back... but Light's strong MU I would say is his TvT. Sea.jy, murdered many terran's and is very good ZvT if he retains his pace. I honestly don't know because I'm not totally convinced by Nada yet. Last group is gonna be fun. It could be massive upsets, or just rape fest. I hope GGPlay and GoRush qualify though. We have enough Terrans, and enough Zergs -_-;; but at least ZvZ's dont take half a day. | ||
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
Group B is an underdog group. Chojja's chances aren't bad, but Bisu is fast becoming a monster and FireBatHero's TvZ is good. I'll have to look at maps to determine who advances I think. Group C is another underdog group, what with Yellow's return to power, nobody seeming to care about TT despite his proleague presence, Shine still being thought of as an amatuer, and GF "slumping." Group D is full of rising stars. Jju who has only now really pulled himself out of the "proleague only" status he was maintaining last year, Rock who has become a starleague regular, Canata whose unbeatable spirit in practice seems to be transferring to individual performance, and th 15 year old legend Sea. Group E should prove interesting. I feel the Zman is badly underrated (people still think of him as that player who used to be the punching bag of the starleagues...guess what? He wasn't last go 'round). Jy is just one of those hot amatuers everybody is watching. NaDa is back! Light is up and coming to super star status. Group F shitty? You must be joking. Iris is one of the most mechanically sound gamers there is. Cloud has been looking stronger and stronger (didn't you see his qualification games?). Gorush used to be a monster and shouldn't be forgotten. GGPlay is on a hot streak at the moment and is one of the most underrated gamers there is. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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YoUr_KiLLeR
United States3420 Posts
im also interested in seeing what bisu can do, and midas has something to prove after placing last in his group in the last OSL, no matter how unstoppable he may have seemed in the last few weeks. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 18 2006 04:34 Jathin wrote: The Z's are such huge flaming vaginas. They picked the first P's they could find. And if no P's were available, they picked Z's. Actually, picking TT isn't exactly the standard coward choice for yellow.. I mean, I remember a starleague (MBC, although a couple of years back) where he knocked out both chojja and yellow without losing a game, before finally meeting nal_ra in winners bracket and losing, then meeting ra in losers bracket and losing ; [ Or was that rage? Eitherway, I think he's known for being strong PvZ.. Oh well, dunno =] At least we have interesting maps now. I think. | ||
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Kacas
Brazil3143 Posts
the only P with chance of winning something...is fucked lol | ||
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Purind
Canada3562 Posts
On August 18 2006 06:15 Jathin wrote: Eh. Just because he isn't a big name doesn't mean he's not as good as them. Bisu[Shield] tore Boxer a new asshole but he's not a big name. He beat Boxer convincingly, too. None of that luck shit. Light[Alive] is a damn good Terran. Also, 815 is a clusterfuck of a map -- it's a total tossup as to who wins usually (unless ZVP, of course). Anytime's PVT has also been top-notch as of late. He smacked Sea[Shield] down as well. The only thing making me feel iffy about that win was the fact that he used DT's. I don't really count DT's as being that 'secure' a win, save special instances where you can safely use them to expand and such. So he did catch Sea[Shield] offguard, but it's CP. CP requires high pressure so DT's is probably one of the best things to do. The thing about Anytime is that he is very, very controlled. There are very few cases where he gets sloppy. Both his macro and micro are strong, as he seems to know when to focus on each one. His problem post-So1 was either 1) He was facing a zerg or 2) He went overboard on DT's. I think now he's not relying on DT's as much because people have gotten accustomed to his style. Midas[gm] is the best TvP in the world. However, ruling Anytime out because he lost to Light[Alive] means nothing. Boxer lost to ShinHwa[Name], who is a dogshit player. You should judge playstyles over who beats who -- ShinHwa's playstyle was poor, and he got as far as he did due to luck -- while players like Bisu[Shield] look very promising. For the record I think Midas will beat Anytime, but to say that with absolute certainty isn't fair. Umm... come on, it's Anytime. I'd be worried if he won without the use of DT's Anyway, I like Anytime's chances, considering the fact that the OGN curse is factual. I also hope he proves his PvZ to us. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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Luhh
Sweden2974 Posts
. Oh well. Anytime/July fighting! | ||
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miNi
Korea (South)2010 Posts
On August 20 2006 09:27 Ace wrote: Stop your bullshit.Anytime isn't that good, I'd be surprised if he made it out of his group. He won a Starleague vs Xellos + iloveoov + Boxer Isn't that good? | ||
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Luhh
Sweden2974 Posts
On August 20 2006 10:22 miNi wrote: Stop your bullshit. He won a Starleague vs Xellos + iloveoov + Boxer Isn't that good? Yeah, I don't get it either. He's one of the better PvT players out there, and at least I consider him a favorite against the terrans, but July is quite another matter. Edit: Oh, and Midas TvP is overrated. One of the best but still very much overrated. A good PvT player should have an advantage compared to a good TvPer. | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
On August 20 2006 10:29 Luhh wrote: Edit: Oh, and Midas TvP is overrated. One of the best but still very much overrated. A good PvT player should have an advantage compared to a good TvPer. Yeah, having a TvP record of 11-1 at some point is definitely overrated. ^_^ | ||
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JoMal
Trinidad/Tobago1177 Posts
Midas[gm] fighting !~ | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
However, I really hope he wins. Maybe he will make it to the round of 8 or semis and prove the Curse can be Broken... hell -_- if He's gonna fill in Boxer's shoes.. he should at least be able to break the curse. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
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jacen
Austria3644 Posts
T_T | ||
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hasuprotoss
United States4612 Posts
On August 20 2006 12:20 SuperJongMan wrote: Casy's gonna die.. It's time for the curse to destroy him. However, I really hope he wins. Maybe he will make it to the round of 8 or semis and prove the Curse can be Broken... hell -_- if He's gonna fill in Boxer's shoes.. he should at least be able to break the curse. July got to the Round of 8 in 2005 ShinHan after winning Ever2. So it can be done, but it rarely happens. | ||
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Myxomatosis
United States2392 Posts
On August 20 2006 12:45 MaGic~PhiL wrote: I so fucking much hope nada makes it at least out of groups and.. well.. nada should win the whole thing.. i wish him the very best =D yes! [ReD]NaDa FTW! I think Anytime will walk through Casy. Casy hadn't played much TvP in the prior OSL, and the games he played vs. Stork in WCG were quite shitty. I think I speak for a lot of people when I saw that I would really like to see a NaDa vs. July final! P.S. Can someone please link me to the groups for this OSL, I can't seem to find the news post!! | ||
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Purind
Canada3562 Posts
I like Casy, but the OGN curse is too strong. I'm hoping Anytime and July move on, and Casy beats Midas and screws over his chances. Midas has been so well lately, but Casy can certainly screw things up for him! | ||
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essare
Korea (South)251 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27168 Posts
On August 20 2006 17:21 essare wrote: A PROTOSS ALWAYS WINS IN THE FALL. Preach.. PREACH MY BROTHER! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=33364 | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Anyway, Freechal - Garimto Sky 2001 - Garimto Sky 2002 - Reach Mycube, NHN Hangame - Kingdom, Nal_rA SO1 Anytime So yeah, this actually true.. The only time a toss hasn't won during autumn is 2004 ;O | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
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Myxomatosis
United States2392 Posts
that was dumb of me. i skimmed through and thought i only saw groups with 2 names listed and the one with pictures. found one now. sry again. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27168 Posts
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funkie
Venezuela9376 Posts
On August 20 2006 19:26 Manifesto7 wrote: it is in this thread... try reading before posting. Yes and.. ![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/MAIN/2006/08/FFMAIN20060818224359001.JPG) | ||
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GunSlinger
614 Posts
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Highways
Australia6105 Posts
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MuShu
United States3223 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On August 20 2006 10:22 miNi wrote: Stop your bullshit. He won a Starleague vs Xellos + iloveoov + Boxer Isn't that good? He won a Starleague playing his best matchup for the last 3 rounds and all of a sudden we are supposed to think he is the new god of protoss so many rabid fanbois claim him to be? Afer his Starleague win he fucking dropped off the face of the earth-HARD. Even on his trip to the SL if you read the comments in the old threads it's more of the fact that a PROTOSS player is doing well than the fact that Anytime is "that good" that gave him all the hype to begin with. Beating those 3 Terran's isnt an easy feat by any means for any player, but Zergman beating July,Savior, and Chojja to win a SL through sheer ZvZ shouldn't be the damn near mental orgasm some people on this forum have every time Anytime's name is mentioned. He is not as good as people claim him to be AND he is in a group of death. Of the 4 players in that group he has the least chance to win period. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
T-T more faith in Storm Zerg~! HongJinHo fighting!! | ||
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YoUr_KiLLeR
United States3420 Posts
On August 20 2006 22:21 Ace wrote: He won a Starleague playing his best matchup for the last 3 rounds and all of a sudden we are supposed to think he is the new god of protoss so many rabid fanbois claim him to be? Afer his Starleague win he fucking dropped off the face of the earth-HARD. Even on his trip to the SL if you read the comments in the old threads it's more of the fact that a PROTOSS player is doing well than the fact that Anytime is "that good" that gave him all the hype to begin with. Beating those 3 Terran's isnt an easy feat by any means for any player, but Zergman beating July,Savior, and Chojja to win a SL through sheer ZvZ shouldn't be the damn near mental orgasm some people on this forum have every time Anytime's name is mentioned. He is not as good as people claim him to be AND he is in a group of death. Of the 4 players in that group he has the least chance to win period. you forgot that anytime raped his way through the challenge league and won it to gain the 4th seed to the OSL that he won. after winning his OSL, yes, he did poorly in his group and fell all the way back down to the offline qualifications. its a long road from the pcbang league to the OGN starleague, so for him to get back here within 1 season (eliminated from groups in Shinhan, missed Shinhan2006, qualified for Shinhan2006 2) is pretty damn good. i also dont think hes the clear underdog in the group. the way i see it, july and midas are the favorites and anytime and casy are the underdogs. it'd be hard to make predictions in this group, i would say: july = midas midas = casy casy = july july > anytime anytime = midas anytime > casy he hardly has the least chance to win. | ||
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EntertainMe
864 Posts
Iris picks Cloud. Commentator: Iris picked you as the easiest opponent, how do you feel about this? Cloud: I knew he would pick me, so I'm not too surprised. Commentator: What? Are you calling yourself the easiest player? Cloud: Till now, my style has been everyone's easiest player to beat. But now, with Casy's influence on me, I am no longer the old Cloud you know. I've been changing alot. I will show you that I'm no longer an easy player. Commentator: Now that you know he's not the same player you thought he was, do you feel any regrets? Iris: I can find out all I want about Cloud from XelloS(in same team as Iris). So I'm not worried. That's why I picked him... They've been friends for years and I've notice them gaming together alot. I have more than enough replays of him. Im confident. Cloud: (With "Oh Shit!" expression on his face) To tell you the truth, I really didn't play hard when I was playing against Xellos. It was just for fun. You won't get too much out of those reps. Commentator: But... aren't you(Iris) friends with Casy(who is in same team as Cloud) as well? Iris: Yes. Commentator: Then wouldn't Cloud have just as much as info(reps) as you do? Iris: I used the BOs I would never normally use in a real game. It's irrelevant. Commentator: Oh, I see. Nicely covered. Well I heard Cloud wasnt playing his 100% against Xellos. What do you think about that? Iris: Thats bullshit. I checked his apm. It was insanely high. So i don't think so. *giggles* Commentator: *laugh laugh* Iris says you were playing seriously. You had high apm. You still say you werent serious? Cloud: I had to practice micro. I enjoyed watching it, it gave me alot of insights with their relationships. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
just watch his recent pvts... they arent impressive at all =( rofl at that interview | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
I hope he doesnt' end up being Xellos' disciple line.. altho he already is. Boxer - Oov - Boxer Xellos - Iris... Cloud - Casy - Cloud? Oh fackin boo.. I hope cloud wins. I didn't get to see the group stage pics yet. And I can't believe the Anytime hate... Anytime is awesome dude... Plus he is REALLY smart. You can see that in his builds. His PvZ is sorta bleh, as he uses an old style, but his PvT is awesome and I can't get how people forgettin how exciting his SL victory was... WTF people. Double Robo of Doom on 815 = thx gg oov | ||
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
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YoonSooJin
Korea (South)7 Posts
On August 18 2006 04:52 Plexa wrote: A is fucking cool! yay gg's!! B is average, easy pickings for chojja C is lame D is interesting (canata and sea )E is boring (nada ftw) F is just plain shitty TvT ftw -.-;;;!!! Actually... Group E would be one of the best groups to watch. Zergman and JY are very good zergs and will test NaDa's skill against zerg. | ||
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WhatisProtoss
Korea (South)2325 Posts
On August 20 2006 22:21 Ace wrote: He won a Starleague playing his best matchup for the last 3 rounds and all of a sudden we are supposed to think he is the new god of protoss so many rabid fanbois claim him to be? Afer his Starleague win he fucking dropped off the face of the earth-HARD. Even on his trip to the SL if you read the comments in the old threads it's more of the fact that a PROTOSS player is doing well than the fact that Anytime is "that good" that gave him all the hype to begin with. Beating those 3 Terran's isnt an easy feat by any means for any player, but Zergman beating July,Savior, and Chojja to win a SL through sheer ZvZ shouldn't be the damn near mental orgasm some people on this forum have every time Anytime's name is mentioned. He is not as good as people claim him to be AND he is in a group of death. Of the 4 players in that group he has the least chance to win period. Whoa... you think Anytime is not good? That's because you only watch the small amount of VODs that you can scavenge online. AnyTime is one of the best protoss, considering his micro is VERY good while having a macro that rivals 박지호. He can easily take down the top players of ANY race. What makes you think that vs T is his best matchup? It isn't. Koreans don't see him as a lucky winner with DTs. He has the best micro and can actually accomplish such risky tactics. He is like 강민 back in 2002-2003, beating large armies with amazing control from his small armies. | ||
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
On August 21 2006 09:42 PaleMan wrote: who are 박지호 and 강민? Pusan and Ra respectively. Also, Anytime came up with the only game of Double Robo so I do consider that BO very smart. Kang Min is known for his proxy whackness, that is characteristically a Ra build, just like how Anytime has his own builds. I believe BO's are a part of 'smartness' I honestly wanted to say during Anytime's short time on top he reminds me of a lot of Garim elements but I didn't feel like explaining myself. However, Garim, Ra, and Anytime all share that 'something special' protoss creativity very few players have i.e. - Much, Tester, Daezang, etc don't. They are another style of Protoss players. I would DIE HAPPY if Anytime and Casy were the ones to make it out from their group. That would be so good, these are two young bloods I really really like plus they are both past champions responsible for their own team's sponsorship in a way. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
The thing is...the crowds are fickle. Play awesome in one tournament or get a lot of positive publicity and all of a sudden you become one of the favorites. It happens a lot with non-Koreans too... Most people's sense of "who is the best" is really absurd. But I won't push the point any. | ||
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miNi
Korea (South)2010 Posts
He was never overrated, nor did he become anyone's favorite. | ||
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TheGreatOne
United States534 Posts
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ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
That doesn't change the fact that they'll be eliminated by Zergs before the quarterfinals. But hey, we'll see. There may be a hero amoung them. | ||
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KorvspaD
Sweden468 Posts
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TiQ.SinGi
Norway385 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On August 20 2006 22:26 Jathin wrote: Wow you compared PVT to ZVZ. I was using Zergman's best matchup to illustrate the point that if a player is playing something that he obviously dominates in, it shouldn't be such a huge surprise when he wins. On August 20 2006 23:32 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote: you forgot that anytime raped his way through the challenge league and won it to gain the 4th seed to the OSL that he won. after winning his OSL, yes, he did poorly in his group and fell all the way back down to the offline qualifications. its a long road from the pcbang league to the OGN starleague, so for him to get back here within 1 season (eliminated from groups in Shinhan, missed Shinhan2006, qualified for Shinhan2006 2) is pretty damn good. i also dont think hes the clear underdog in the group. the way i see it, july and midas are the favorites and anytime and casy are the underdogs. it'd be hard to make predictions in this group, i would say: july = midas midas = casy casy = july july > anytime anytime = midas anytime > casy he hardly has the least chance to win. I think you guys are misinterpresting my quotes. I dont think Anytime is just some dogshit Protoss the same way I think of Pusan(waits for flames). I just think he is highly overrated after that SL win. I can't see how anyone thinks he isn't the least capable of making it out of that group with the 3 players he's stuck with. 2 of them are absolute protoss killers, and the other is just if not above Anytime's level of build manipulation. If he makes it out, great, but it will be because his skill has truly risen to a level where he can be called "top of the game". Or in the unfortunate case he loses, we might have to settle with more protoss fans complaining about imbalances,which is valid but not for every damn ZvP and TvP match! On August 21 2006 02:49 SuperJongMan wrote: And I can't believe the Anytime hate... Anytime is awesome dude... Plus he is REALLY smart. You can see that in his builds. His PvZ is sorta bleh, as he uses an old style, but his PvT is awesome and I can't get how people forgettin how exciting his SL victory was... WTF people. I think Anytime is good, but not at the peak of Protoss power as say, Reach has ever been to. Sure he won a SL, but so has Sync and where is he now? And his PvT hasn't been the same since that SL trip... On August 21 2006 09:23 WhatisProtoss wrote: Whoa... you think Anytime is not good? Where did I say that? On August 21 2006 09:23 WhatisProtoss wrote: He can easily take down the top players of ANY race. What makes you think that vs T is his best matchup? It isn't. Koreans don't see him as a lucky winner with DTs. He has the best micro and can actually accomplish such risky tactics. He is like 강민 back in 2002-2003, beating large armies with amazing control from his small armies. If his PvT isn't his best matchup then what is/was? | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On August 21 2006 11:14 Mortality wrote: IMO Anytime became badly overrated when he won SO 1, but I must admit his position for getting out of his group this year is not very bad at all. The thing is...the crowds are fickle. Play awesome in one tournament or get a lot of positive publicity and all of a sudden you become one of the favorites. It happens a lot with non-Koreans too... Most people's sense of "who is the best" is really absurd. But I won't push the point any. Kind of like how you think Ret is going to win everyone in Sandlot even though hes inactive? And even when hes fully active hes beatable. | ||
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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YoUr_KiLLeR
United States3420 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Jathin: You left out Stork on purpose? | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27168 Posts
Not everyone hates him though, etter has Anytime wet dreams to this day. | ||
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YoUr_KiLLeR
United States3420 Posts
btw, even though casy's on a hotstreak, remember he lost the only tvp he played in the last starleague (vs nalra) =P. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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Luhh
Sweden2974 Posts
Anytime, Pusan, Ra, Reach are the tosses I like. Tester and Bisu may end up something as well hopefully. | ||
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
On August 22 2006 05:31 Jathin wrote: Really I'm a bigger fan of new-talent than I am the old. The new guys are all younger and innovative in their styles. Most of the older players stick to their old style and just get smacked around. When was the last time you saw Reach/rA go arbiters against a T? That was something that was emphasized greatly during the Neo-Toss era of Anytime/PuSan/Stork and shown to be very effective, but Reach/rA didn't even attempt to adopt any of those concepts. Not to mention as of late Reach's PvZ has been nothing but disappointing. Ra was 5-2 PvT in osl, msl, and proleague and got further in osl/msl than any of the neo-tosses(if they even qualified), hardly getting "smacked around". Why fix something that isn't broken? oh and IPX would have mopped the floor with any of the neo-tosses, at least Ra put up a fight. | ||
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Wasabi
United States3085 Posts
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
Also, I think we agree for the Anytime fans that his innovation and control are what make him outstanding as opposed to his macro. It's good of course, he's pro. However, I think Anytime will die in his group quite miserably. Midas and July are really... I mean, their name is all you really need to hear. You know how good they are, they are never underdogs. Still, I cheer for my race. Hell, DT July and I will sware I will be an Anytime Fan... FOREVER. Sad thing is... I don't think any toss this OSL has a better chance than Anytime in going far. TT's PvZ is pretty strong they say... but even the strongest PvZ can be an underdog as we were cruelly reminded this MSL. And he's as familiar to me as Rock, they are both veterans but not household names.... and unaccomplished... and hasn't seen a tour de force really. Bisu... I think he can make it out of groups but I have never seen the guy play more than one game at a time. A Series is very different from a Single Elim. It'll be interesting to see him if he makes it to that point. Rock is Rock.. at best, he will pull out til top 8, as unlikely as that is. Plus... when Rock plays bad... Yeah... Discussion over. Jathin - Please never call Kingdom a Push-Over again or I will boil your firstborn with a puppy and eat them both... and carrots And beating Chojja on The Eye is a task in itself that's pretty noteworthy. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
On August 22 2006 12:37 Jathin wrote: Yes, that's called adaptability. @ the person who said why fix something that isn't broken -- C Game 1: Nal_rA > Oov @ Rush Hour III C Winner's: Nal_rA > StOrk @ The Eye B Game 1: Nal_rA > ChOJJa @ The Eye B Winner's Game 1: Yooi > Nal_rA @ Arcadia B Winner's Game 2: Nal_rA > Yooi @ 815 III B Winner's Game 3: Nal_rA > Yooi @ Pringles the Eye Game 1: Nal_rA > Kingdom @ Pringles The Eye Game 2: Nal_rA > Kingdom @ Arcadia Game 3: Nal_rA > Kingdom @ 815 III Players in the MSL he never faced: Boxer GoRush Terato Reach Rainbow Pusan Midas Mumyung Rumble It's hard for me to safely say rA is back and doing well/competing with other people actively when it seems a majority of his games were a breeze. His hard ones were facing oov, Stork, and Chojja (all of which he only had to play 1 game against). The rest were kind of pushovers. He won majority his PvT's when you said he was getting smacked around because he can't adapt, which doesn't make sense. Since he went out of both msl/osl to zergs, maybe he should be adapting his PvZ instead? And the only players from that list that Ra wouldn't have beat imo are Reach and Midas. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
On August 22 2006 12:42 Jathin wrote: Did you watch the series between him and Kingdom? Kingdom got absolutely assfucked. ffs he tried going 1base carriers and got raped with his pants down. That was by far the most dissapointing series I've watched in that MSL. I'm not saying Kingdom's a pushover in general, I'm saying that particular series sure as hell was. I definately agree. But that 1 base carrier was because of what Reach did ~_~. Honestly that was probably the worst series Kingdom played in his whole career. And Ra really would have easily beat Reach imo. Kingdom took down Reach, close, barely, but did. Then Ra proceeded to out devil the devil himself. | ||
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
On August 22 2006 14:39 SuperJongMan wrote: I definately agree. But that 1 base carrier was because of what Reach did ~_~. Honestly that was probably the worst series Kingdom played in his whole career. And Ra really would have easily beat Reach imo. Kingdom took down Reach, close, barely, but did. Then Ra proceeded to out devil the devil himself. Don't think so. It wouldn't have been easy that's for sure since both players are the best PVPers. Reach already beat Kingdom once that msl and if he had played the tie breaker straight up he would have won again imo. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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TheGreatOne
United States534 Posts
On August 22 2006 05:31 Jathin wrote: Stork upsets me. He has streaks of brilliant play, then just makes horrible horrible mistakes. His PvZ is weak and he is very susceptible to vulture harassment in PvT (he doesn't like making cannons really). I also left rA and Reach out. I was starting to gain a lot of faith in rA after seeing him beat oov with solid play (this was before oov was recognized as slumping), but the rest of the season disappointed me. Esp. the final against IPXZerg. I expected IPX to win, but not as easily as he did. Really I'm a bigger fan of new-talent than I am the old. The new guys are all younger and innovative in their styles. Most of the older players stick to their old style and just get smacked around. When was the last time you saw Reach/rA go arbiters against a T? That was something that was emphasized greatly during the Neo-Toss era of Anytime/PuSan/Stork and shown to be very effective, but Reach/rA didn't even attempt to adopt any of those concepts. Not to mention as of late Reach's PvZ has been nothing but disappointing. Anytime/PuSan/Bisu[Shield] I think we will see good performance in the near future. As far as Tester[gm], I think he'll be kind of like Canata -- it'll take a while for him to burst out into his potential. Either that or he'll just die out like Mumyung. I agree with you on most parts except the fact that I think the old toss are adapting and adapting good if you haven't seen any of ra's new pvt's you might not notice that he goes arbiters every time games vs nada at the blizzcon he did it.. and more recent games he has like vs Rhythm[gm]. In fact I can see a major improvment in ra's pvt and pvp. But the consequence of this is he might of lost practice in his pvz and hes lost his edge in that that is for sure. When was the last time ra lost to a zerg 3-1 even ? On August 21 2006 14:01 Jathin wrote: Anytime is my favorite P player. I've never seen anyone with as much control as him. P players: 1. Anytime -- very, very controlled. His micro is incredible, but he knows when to cut micro and focus on macro. Also very innovative. 2. PuSan -- around the time of So1 he was very sloppy and a choke artist, but now he's awesome. Comes up with great builds and has good control. 3. Bisu -- sloppier micro than PuSan, but equal to/better macro (yes, I said it!) His macro is just ridiculously good. He tends to try to flood the opponent into a gg, which really limits him as far as matchups (he'll get raped PVZ). Hopefully after some work he'll become as good as PuSan. 4. Tester -- give him time, he has potential to become very good. His PVT has always been top-notch, and his PVZ has definite potential considering his amazing micro. Watch the 2006 SKY Proleague of eNature vs. Lecaf Oz if you want to see his PVZ potential. The attack at 8:08 was incredible. I didn't think he'd be able to even get through, but he did and was able to dish out a significant amount of damage while he was at it. I agree with most of this except that bisu[shield]'s best mu is pvz. He had a what 80% pvz win rate on pgtour which is damn impressive considering he was playing all the top zergs and won a Season at ultimate rank. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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ChApFoU
France2983 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On August 21 2006 13:51 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Kind of like how you think Ret is going to win everyone in Sandlot even though hes inactive? And even when hes fully active hes beatable. I'm convinced he will be one of the toughest people there to beat (obviously not as tough as Dove or Draco, but tough). I've seen some recent games (past month) of him vs "gosus" and I've watched him make them look easy, as if they are the ones who have been away from SC and not him. And this is exactly where my point comes in...those people who are "gosu" who he rolled over really can't be all that gosu if somebody who hasn't been playing can trounce them like that. Testie has been fucking around for pretty much a year now. Just watch as he will prove himself to be one of the 5's in skill. Mondragon too. Guys like Testie/Mondi/Ret are just on another level. They come back from long periods of inactivity, play a few games, and suddenly everyone's losing to them. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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Purind
Canada3562 Posts
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ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
On August 23 2006 10:25 Purind wrote: OK, Anytime definitely has a better shot than Casy. Remember guys, even though Casy's on a hotstreak, that hotstreak won him an OSL, so he's gonna drop out of this one. I agree.  | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Im just saying Mortality.. Ret is simply amazing yes i agree. In fact when hes in top form id call him top 1-3 non korean.. but the top non koreans can ALL beat each other around. Nobody utterly dominates anybody up there except Mondragon > P and Sen > T. Saying Ret will roll everyone over is exactly the same kind of blind and unfound faith you were claiming the korean crowds of having. Ret was in top shape in TLT and he didnt get what, top 16? | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On August 23 2006 11:12 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Testie is playing fairly hard core atm. Im just saying Mortality.. Ret is simply amazing yes i agree. In fact when hes in top form id call him top 1-3 non korean.. but the top non koreans can ALL beat each other around. Nobody utterly dominates anybody up there except Mondragon > P and Sen > T. Saying Ret will roll everyone over is exactly the same kind of blind and unfound faith you were claiming the korean crowds of having. Ret was in top shape in TLT and he didnt get what, top 16? Well I see your point and I will do two things. The first is to say that I think in the past two posts prior to this one you just made we were talking past each other. The second is to take what you just said a step further... At this point, it's unambiguously true that anyone can beat anyone provided they are even within a mile of each other in skill. Oov, Midas and July are far beyond any of the top foreigners in skill, but virtually any of the foreigners there are capable of pulling an upset win, and some of them are quite capable of pulling a 2-1 or even 2-0 upset win to knock those guys out! So of course it is true that even the best players can get knocked around, but when it comes to viewing two players in a showdown, I'll deal in the odds. Ret might get beaten up, but the odds are that he will roll over anyone who isn't a 4 or a 5, and he may roll over some of them as well. He's been that kind of a persistent threat over the years, and the non-Korean community is starting to turn stale (what with WCG slots getting taken away and more and more top players going over to poker). And while you may talk about Ret not getting top 16, what about you? You DID make top 16 TLT 2, but you have yet to even qualify for top 16 in WCG USA. You of all people, someone with rather peculiar tournament results and someone who has won Liquibet that a lot can happen in a tournament and that dealing in odds is about the only thing you can do. About the progaming scene, I'm not so much talking about the Korean fans since I don't know too many of them. I think a lot of people who post on here engage in fanaticism in their unyielding support for their past heroes, bandwagoning of their new ones and their grudging of those who thwart their heroes or otherwise do well that they don't like. To some extent all of us here (including me) are like this, but some of the things people say... just wow. A lot of the fanboism out there is just irrational. You are looking at me in this light, but I could careless about Ret -- I'm judging him by recent results from practice games, his past tournament results, his behavior (he has always played on again / off again yet he more or less always stands out as a star), and the overall shape of the non-Korean community. And I am taking a bit of a gamble in what I say, I'll admit. I'm taking the gamble that he will even bother looking at that maps. I'm taking the gamble that he will even bother looking at who his opponents will be. But I know that he has both the resources and the resourcefulness to make himself a presence. And look at this thread. People think Shinhwa and Zergman are "dogshit" players. Well I've got news -- they wouldn't have done so well against the players they faced if they were. You have people on both lines of the Anytime thing...Anytime is obviously a good player, but he is by no means anywhere near how good Ra was in 2003/2004. Ra was a persistent threat in both leagues. Anytime performed well in one league, once. Anytime is doing pretty well in SKY, yeah, but still no MSL appearance and it's dubious to think he has carried Lecaf as well as NaDa carried Pantech this past season or as well as Ra did for KTF in all those ace match games. Bisu is an amazing player, but his performance in this league will be very deciding -- he's untested in the pro ring. Still, some players take longer to come out of their shell than others. Canata, Casy, Jju and Zergman are all examples of players that took some time to really develop into a presence, very unlike NaDa who just flatout stormed onto the scene like the tornado they call him. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
You went above and beyond the statement. Not a real debate here, i was more calling you hypocritical and your comming here justifying the hypocrisy. Thats fine, i didnt say you were "wrong" or that you are retarded. I was more saying 2 things: 1. your a hypocrite. 2. I think Ret WONT tear through the tourney like you predicted. You seem to concede both, so my issue here is done. PS: i got 1 and 2 in my WCG prelims but than had college obligations that did not allow me to go to regionals in Cali or NY. Using my WCG epxerience as some kind of readout on my skill is flawed i would think. Nobody mentioned WCG.. how does it pertain to a online tourney like Sandlot? | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
1.) It's obvious everyone has their own biases in who they think is good, but there is a difference between fanboism and making an attempt at an objective opinion. I gave you the conditions by which I judged Ret. 2.) I explained that anything is possible, but went on further to explain why I think Ret will tear through his competition as I originally predicted. My turn on you had nothing to do with an attack on your skill and everything (when taken in conjuction with your Liquibet victory) to do with showing why you of all people should recognize that flukes can occur. As it turns out I was mistaken in thinking that you had not won this year, but I am certain that last year you did not win your prelim despite being mentioned by many people as one of the favorites to do well at the WCG USA Finals. I am aware that second place was good enough to move to the next level as I had third place in my prelim and moved on to regionals, and I was not attacking that. I reiterate: "You of all people, someone with rather peculiar tournament results and someone who has won Liquibet that a lot can happen in a tournament and that dealing in odds is about the only thing you can do." I contest that: 1.) My opinion on how Ret will perform is based on sound evidence including but not limited to recent games played against opponents including but not limited (be careful to note the double use of the phrase) to ArtOfGlory (who is okay, but worse than most Sandlot participants) and Dream.t)Orion (who would rape almost anyone at Sandlot in a bo7 very badly). 2.) Ret will tear through pretty much anyone who isn't a 5 in skill. Your attacks on not only my opinions but on me as a person reflect exactly why I was hesitant to post even as much as I did. There is much less of a difference between you and the other people here as you may you think. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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tKd_
United States2916 Posts
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Luhh
Sweden2974 Posts
On August 23 2006 16:37 tKd_ wrote: I definitely wonder how Mondragon, Testie, etc. don't play for a period of time and still own up. It's amazing. It's definitely the way they think. Also their definition of inactive usually means playing a shitload more than most players so that helps a lot.. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I understand your opinion and think your last post was much better in describing your feelings. I still think its completely ludicrous to base an opinion as wide spread as "Ret will tear through everyone under "5" <-- "based on whos ranking?" because you saw him beat Artofglory who sucks, especially vs Z and Orion, who is absolutely incredible yes but in no way constitutes "OH WELL SINCE HE BEAT HIM ALL OTHERS WILL FALL" So while i think you did a much better job describing how you feel, i hope you can see why its so silly to make such a gargantuan statement RIGHT AFTER similar comments about the korean audience. | ||
jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
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TheGreatOne
United States534 Posts
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
discussion is over | ||
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lightman
United States731 Posts
What is Midas TvP record and when was the last time he lost a TvP (game or series) against who? Same for July's ZvP please thanks. | ||
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lightman
United States731 Posts
On August 23 2006 16:37 tKd_ wrote: I definitely wonder how Mondragon, Testie, etc. don't play for a period of time and still own up. It's amazing. It's definitely the way they think. my 2 cents dude, do you have any idea how many games has testie played in his life ?? He was already a decent player when replays weren't around (ok he was a hacker). Don't eat that crap he's working or has a social life, girlfriend, man of affairs, bs. That dude has played probably (and literally) MILLIONS of games. he knows the strats, he knows the speed... doesn't matter if he quits playing 1 day or 1 year. after playing millions of games, it must stick into your brain right ? unless you're stimpy. sure some talent is requiered and there are the other players that are naturally born with it to keep up playing at high level (not testie's case in my opinion), let's take a real old school good player like nazgul or maynard or slayer come back again some of the real good players back when no reps where out there (cause testie wasn't that good back then), I'm pretty sure it would take them perhaps only a couple of weeks to regain their level. Why do you think Fisheye always qualifies for WCG every year ? | ||
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amoxicilline
France1124 Posts
btw go nada -_- | ||
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NubainMuscle
South Africa423 Posts
On August 24 2006 04:18 lightman wrote: I have a question -side topic- What is Midas TvP record and when was the last time he lost a TvP (game or series) against who? Same for July's ZvP please thanks. Midas lost to Stork in the group stage tie-breaker last OSL on Cultivation Period. July lost to Rock in the group stage last OSL on Sin 815 III. These may not be the most recent defeats, but the latest that I can personally remember. | ||
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NubainMuscle
South Africa423 Posts
On August 24 2006 04:25 lightman wrote: dude, do you have any idea how many games has testie played in his life ?? He was already a decent player when replays weren't around (ok he was a hacker). Don't eat that crap he's working or has a social life, girlfriend, man of affairs, bs. That dude has played probably (and literally) MILLIONS of games. he knows the strats, he knows the speed... doesn't matter if he quits playing 1 day or 1 year. after playing millions of games, it must stick into your brain right ? unless you're stimpy. Millions of games? You are way off... 1 million / 8 = 125,000 games / year 125,000 / 365 = 342 GAMES / DAY And you were implying not just 1 million, but several million too! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Realistically, The older, more dedicated players have probably played roughly ~ 30,000 - 40,000 serious 1v1's. Even 50 games / day, every single day of the year (no holiday, let alone vacation) since Starcraft was first released would only yield 146,000. Not to mention many of the top foreigners are known to get by with only 5-10 games per day. | ||
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