EPT[MSL] Nate MSL Grand Finals - Flash vs Jaedong - Page 198
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BG1
Canada1550 Posts
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haley
64 Posts
On January 23 2010 21:44 gravity wrote: Live gambling odds are sufficient if there was such a thing. Otherwise statistics based on past games are a lot better than any other solution anyone has come up with. Come on, everyone's like "well, it's a lose/lose situation where someone gets screwed". My solution is the only one where nobody technically gets screwed, although of course it might be disappointing for the audience. The only reason to be against it is because it interferes with people's perception that they're in control of their own fate or whatever, but that has nothing to do with "fairness", and it's certainly no worse than simply awarding victory to whoever was in the lead. What is your irrefutable stance on why one instance (given that you know the probabilities) should override expected value? There are many examples in real life where expected value is more important. You say your stance in the only fair way. The only way that can be is if you can answer that question objectively. | ||
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Dark.Carnival
United States5095 Posts
On January 23 2010 21:43 Carnac wrote: MBC might not have been resposible for the power failure itself, but even if they were not: not having uninterruptible power supply is simply a joke. I lack the words to describe this failure. It was all down hill from there, simply because there is no ideal course of action for this. I'm 100% certain Jaedong was ahead in game 3, but being ahead != victory. People come back from disadvantages all the time and while Flash was definitely behind he was far from being in an unwinnable position. Jaedong would probably have won it, but we will never know, which is a shame. Giving Jaedong the win is obviously a huge blow to Flash, while replaying a game in such a situation is always problematic. Both players already revealed their game plan for the map, a game plan they devised in countless practice games... The best would probably have been to call off the match and replay the series from scratch at different time, especially considering the score was 1-1 I feel it would have been the fairest call all things considered. It was hilarious fail they didn't have a way to prevent what happened, but even more fail is how they handled it. Awarding Jaedong game three is a toss up, either way it was unfair towards one of the players. What made it worse is how they handled it, and the ensuing hour long shit storm. If they handled it better by taking their time to review the decision and present it to the players, coaches and fans then going into game 4 Flash might not have been so mentally raped. I'd say Flash, while not happy with having game three awarded to Jaedong, would have been able to come back and play at his normal level but being subjected to his angry father and coaches for over an hour just gg'd him. I was expecting them to call a reschedule, because it was clearly unfair at that point for Flash who took the brunt of the shitstorm. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On January 23 2010 21:44 Vasoline73 wrote: Yeah because that happened 5 minutes before a deciding game 4 in the 2nd biggest tournament in Korea? Whats wrong with you? I just agreed with DoctorHelvetica that not even Jaedong could have taken the mental pressure. | ||
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verteqz
Canada89 Posts
On January 23 2010 21:43 iG.SwOrD wrote: Or maybe you should stop being such a drama queen over a game? The people who had to judge the situation made the decision - like it or not doesnt matter. Everything has flaws mr.perfect from the sc forums and will always be that way. If something is flawed, it can be improved. That was Bacon's point. | ||
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Alethios
New Zealand2765 Posts
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
probably jd has a better mental state than flash cause hes though as a rock but after such crap happend with all the drama n stuff you simply cannot play anymore, you simply cannot not even jd can. | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
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esla_sol
United States756 Posts
jaedong's build in the 4th game countered flash's very well. the only argument one could make is that tilt caused flash to make the fast proxy rax. based on his track record i would find that hard to believe. its not out of the question at all that he would have chosen a similar strategy and thus be dominated if the result was in game 3 was in his favor or jaedong's. you could also say that if the result of game 3 was against jaedong than jaedong might have done something different. this is possible, but my guess is that tilt does not greatly influence jaedong. | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
And while it was awkward to see JD as the underdog going into a series, if he won, I'd be just as happy, since I've always rooted for the zerg players most and JDs ability to overcome strong odds is just awesome. So I thought there was no way this could not be the most amazing finals since Boxer-Oov (short of Flash really trying to be like Boxer and bunkerrushing JD 3 times). Boy was I wrong. Fuck. Ps: What a timing on the power outtage too- the most intense fighting going on for several minutes- I guess the generators (or whatever broke down) were watching too. | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
On January 23 2010 21:46 Hevad Khan wrote: I won 2k betting on jaedong Holy shit it's Hevad Khan hahaha | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Jaedong had time to calm himself about it and separate the FA situation from the leagues themselves Flash had his dad kicked out of the studio, his team coach and manager getting so pissed at mbc that they swore to boycott all mbc events and to pull flash out of the msl finals right then, and a free win given to jaedong and then was expected to make a 2 game comeback immediately afterward that is incredibly different and far more difficult to deal with. | ||
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phaleos
Australia105 Posts
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538
Hungary3932 Posts
On January 23 2010 21:46 Hevad Khan wrote: I won 2k betting on jaedong I wouldnt be surprised if some Kespa-related person won way more on his bets;) or someone in the heater-industry + Show Spoiler + j/k, dont flame me | ||
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Dark.Carnival
United States5095 Posts
On January 23 2010 21:49 esla_sol wrote: the series wasnt over after the 3rd game. flash could have come back, and he simply didnt. he did not have the mental fortitude to finish the series, something he has been training for his entire life. as a fan this is extremely sad but the better player won. jaedong's build in the 4th game countered flash's very well. the only argument one could make is that tilt caused flash to make the fast proxy rax. based on his track record i would find that hard to believe. its not out of the question at all that he would have chosen a similar strategy and thus be dominated if the result was in game 3 was in his favor or jaedong's. you could also say that if the result of game 3 was against jaedong than jaedong might have done something different. this is possible, but my guess is that tilt does not greatly influence jaedong. put anyone in flashes place and they'd have been in the exact same state as flash. over an hour with his coaches/team and dad all angry and arguing with the officials. that's a shitty place to be in during the finals and being down 1-2. | ||
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gravity
Australia2330 Posts
On January 23 2010 21:47 haley wrote: What is your irrefutable stance on why one instance (given that you know the probabilities) should override expected value? There are many examples in real life where expected value is more important. You say your stance in the only fair way. The only way that can be is if you can answer that question objectively. I don't understand your objection. There's no way to grant the players the exact expected value because that's a fraction of a win each - that's why you roll the dice on the weighted percentages instead, which preserves the expectation at the time the game stopped instead of granting an unfair boost to the player who was ahead (or an unfair penalty to the player who was ahead if you regame). | ||
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orgolove
Vatican City State1650 Posts
Listen. Flash had a heater near him. The heater supposedly drew too much power from the same plug that it blew the fuse, leading Flash's computer to shut down. It's the HEATER that caused the problem. Korean Netizens are calling the Heater the 5th bonjwa. | ||
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
As others have said, this was an absolute disaster for both players. JD came well prepared, he had victory in his mouth in game three. Here was JD playing against the best TvZer of all time, at his very peak, on a map that greatly favoured terran,and in flash's personal playground, yet, he was winning.... What this shows me however is that flash IS clearly the more skilled player. He won a clutch game and ace match, just a few days ago, and a few days before that? He destroyed Movie convincingly, in his weakest matchup. And here we have JD who's had extra time to prepare for this, coming up with some pretty brilliant map specific openings and BOs, and yet it still seemed as if flash could still overwhelm him at any time. I doubt JD will be using any 3 hatch before pool openings against other terrans on a regular basis. Game 4 was totally non existent to me. Flash was mentally broken. Personally I don't know how to interpret this series, other than a bo3 WIN by JD.... | ||
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So no fek
United States3001 Posts
MBC doesn't control the industry, and while they did a terrible job handling the MSL, in the end, it was KeSPA that decided the outcome. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States8197 Posts
On January 23 2010 21:48 SuperArc wrote: Whats wrong with you? I just agreed with DoctorHelvetica that not even Jaedong could have taken the mental pressure. Ah sorry SuperArc, I assumed you were being sarcastic. My bad.  | ||
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