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On January 23 2010 21:49 esla_sol wrote:
the series wasnt over after the 3rd game. flash could have come back, and he simply didnt. he did not have the mental fortitude to finish the series, something he has been training for his entire life. as a fan this is extremely sad but the better player won.
You expect a 17 year old boy to have the mental fortitude to come back from what he considered being robbed of a game in the most important event of his life? If he was an actual machine that didnt have feelings or emotions i guess that would be possible.
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To say "JD>>>>Flash" is wrong, Flash won game 2 and gave JD a good fight in game 3 + knocked Jaedong out of OSL 2-0. But yes, today Jaedong was better but not by far.
I feel really sorry for Flash tho, I really hoped that he would take both starleagues.
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this is the worst fail in the history of esports.MSL should be cancelled from next season i think Flash is sure as hell not participating in the next one if it happens.He just gave up on that 4th set which btw took those FUCKERS over 30 mins to start.in that situation the match should have been restarted because it was MBC's fault and it wasn't entirely fair to award JD the win.i think we here at TL should pool our money together and buy out kespa cuz this is a FUCKING joke.no one deserves to win like this.
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Yea, game 4 may as well not even have happened as far as I'm concerned; the series was over after game 3. What a ridiculous thing to happen. Unfair as it may have been to Jaedong, (I was rooting for Jaedong by the way) they really should have replayed game 3.
Obviously they should have had UPS set up, how ridiculous of them not to; but given the circumstances, I think a replay makes more sense than just handing the win to Jaedong based on a decision by someone who doesn't play Starcraft at that level.
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On January 23 2010 21:53 Warrior Madness wrote:
This really is the most hyped up finals of all time.... Here we have the most poorly run, poorly managed finals ever run, in the 10 year history of competitive starcraft.... With two of the shortest games played, and yet this thread is about to break the 200 page mark.
As others have said, this was an absolute disaster for both players. JD came well prepared, he had victory in his mouth in game three. Here was JD playing against the best TvZer of all time, at his very peak, on a map that greatly favoured terran,and in flash's personal playground, yet, he was winning....
What this shows me however is that flash IS clearly the more skilled player. He won a clutch game and ace match, just a few days ago, and a few days before that? He destroyed Movie convincingly, in his weakest matchup. And here we have JD who's had extra time to prepare for this, coming up with some pretty brilliant map specific openings and BOs, and yet it still seemed as if flash could still overwhelm him at any time. I doubt JD will be using any 3 hatch before pool openings against other terrans on a regular basis.
Game 4 was totally non existent to me. Flash was mentally broken.
Personally I don't know how to interpret this series, other than a bo3 WIN by JD....
Not too sure about Flash being the more skilled player... but i've come around to your thinking regarding this essentially being a Bo3 win.
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Jaedong outplayed Flash game 1
Flash outplayed Jaedong game 2
Jaedong outplayed Flash game 3 but technically didn't win, although he was far ahead
Jaedong outplayed Flash in game 4 who was mentally decimated by uncontrollable external circumstances due solely to KESPA/MBC making terrible decisions.
If Jaedong simply won game 3 without all the drama, game 4 could have been very very different. But it's all done now, and there is nothing we can be sure of other than MBC is a joke.
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On January 23 2010 21:25 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:22 snapcrackle wrote:On January 23 2010 21:20 Ace wrote:
and for the last time JAEDONG DID NOT HAVE FULL TECH game 3. Jesus. It was going to come down to MM/Vessel vs Ultra/Ling/Defiler/Scourge micro AGAIN. Stop making shit up for fucks sake. If Ultra/Ling/Defiler/Scourge isn't full tech what is? Lurkers to defend a fucking possible drop maybe? Ultra/ling is not full tech. The same way as 3/3 MM isn't considered full tech. You know, because FULL TECH means every unit you'd expect to see in the match up.
*sigh* where is that facepalm picture -.-a ... he skipped lurkers.... in a ZvT at this stage of the game (end game tech) lurkers aren't needed
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
Oh btw, here's a picture of the actual environment the two players played in:
awesome, isn't it? [/sarcasm]
And they call it the premier championship game of the world's only professional star league...
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I do not want to start any argument, but I just want to share my feelings. It doesn't feel good keeping it inside me.
I waited for this for a week, since the last final, Movie vs Flash. Yesterday I can't sleep, finish my work early and stayed @ home during the weekend to watch this. To support Flash. Yes I am a flash fan but Jaedong fans don't flame me because I support flash.
I skipped my weekend outing and was so hyped that my roomate thought I will go crazy soon.
The final was so dissapointed that I am crying so hard right now. To see your idol loses the huge momentum instantly due to accident and human decision and so much controversial that spans 200 pages not to mention fanboys saying unwanted staffs that made this post felt somehow uncomfortable to read.
From now onwards I think I shouldn't focus so much on starcraft. I will only play fantasy league and watch SPL. At least that is a team league they have support of the whole team if this kind of thing happens.
I just hope flash feels better, he must have felt bad for losing game 4 just like that. I hope he is still on fire, and doesn't slump from this. He is still young and still have a long way to go.
Jaedong must have felt bad that he won this gold in this kind of manner...
Never mind, I should calm down now.
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On January 23 2010 21:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
A true Jaedong fan wouldn't be happy with this result. Even if he didn't get a default win, the fact that he was even involved with this ugliness is insulting to him and everyone who supports him.
i feel so cheated. im a fan of jaedong, but im so fucking pissed off both players were robbed of a fair match.
rematch pluhz
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On January 23 2010 21:33 538 wrote:lol wtf
LOL
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
And that's BLACK BOXES AROUND THE PLAYER'S SCREENS TO PREVENT THE OTHERS FROM LOOKING AT THEM. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IN THIS DAY AND AGE, THEY RELIED ON BLACK BOXES.
MSL=Minor Star League gogogo
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On January 23 2010 21:57 orgolove wrote:Oh btw, here's a picture of the actual environment the two players played in: awesome, isn't it? [/sarcasm] And they call it the premier championship game of the world's only professional star league...
LOL
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United States12607 Posts
On January 23 2010 19:55 o[twist] wrote:
when five fucking thousand people are watching on roffles stream and maybe hundreds of thousands watching total you take the cocks out of your mouth and start acting like a fucking adult, you buy a fucking ups and you make some rules for determining when to award the game and when not to. fact is that kespa and mbc don't do this. they're like children and it's completely absurd
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"Power went out when Jaedong was slightly ahead, Game awarded to Jaedong by KeSPA decision"
lol slightly ahead who is editing this thread, really.
The game was over. No doubt that the power failure influenced both players and game 4, MBC sucks.
But at the end of the day Jaedong raped flash, no contest. As I knew.
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Isn't it hilarious that the whole reason they put them in this clownish "virtual studio" was to reduce pressure and help them focus and play 100% of their capability? lool
the exact opposite happened, gj
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On January 23 2010 21:52 gravity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 21:47 haley wrote:On January 23 2010 21:44 gravity wrote:On January 23 2010 21:41 boredcouch wrote:On January 23 2010 21:40 gravity wrote:On January 23 2010 21:34 EvilTeletubby wrote:On January 23 2010 21:30 gravity wrote:On January 23 2010 21:20 EvilTeletubby wrote:On January 23 2010 21:18 gravity wrote:
The most fair way to decide an outage game, if a regame is impossible, would be to calculate the probability of each player winning (somehow - maybe base it on statistics from past matches, or better yet, live gambling odds if available) and pick randomly according to those odds (so if Flash had a 20% chance of winning, you would choose a random number from 1 to 100 and give Flash the win if you got 20 or less, otherwise give the win to Jaedong). I can guarantee THAT solution would result in riots.  Only because people don't understand probability, expected value, etc :/. No, because that's an awful idea. There is a difference is they suggested a regame (where players would decide their own fate) vs a randomly shot in the dark that involves no effort/training/input, etc. I thought you were just joking at first.  I'm 100% serious and my idea is the only fair way to decide the issue (far more fair than a regame which screws the player who was in the lead). People just have a poor understanding of probability and therefore a skewed idea of fairness. Just look at all the people who play the lottery. No, the main problem with your idea is there is no correct way of determining the exact probabilities. Live gambling odds are sufficient if there was such a thing. Otherwise statistics based on past games are a lot better than any other solution anyone has come up with. Come on, everyone's like "well, it's a lose/lose situation where someone gets screwed". My solution is the only one where nobody technically gets screwed, although of course it might be disappointing for the audience. The only reason to be against it is because it interferes with people's perception that they're in control of their own fate or whatever, but that has nothing to do with "fairness", and it's certainly no worse than simply awarding victory to whoever was in the lead. What is your irrefutable stance on why one instance (given that you know the probabilities) should override expected value? There are many examples in real life where expected value is more important. You say your stance in the only fair way. The only way that can be is if you can answer that question objectively. I don't understand your objection. There's no way to grant the players the exact expected value because that's a fraction of a win each - that's why you roll the dice on the weighted percentages instead, which preserves the expectation at the time the game stopped instead of granting an unfair boost to the player who was ahead (or an unfair penalty to the player who was ahead if you regame).
You earlier said only people who don't understand "probability, expected value, etc." would disagree with you.
It seems right here you do not fully understand expected value and it's implications.
Here, let me link the Wikipedia article for Law of Large Numbers for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers
If you still don't understand what this means and implies, then respond (it also means you are not as strong in probability as you'd like to believe).
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
FFFFUUUU why can't I create topics yet -_-
Here's some more pics of the ridiculous set the players played in:
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On January 23 2010 21:57 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
I do not want to start any argument, but I just want to share my feelings. It doesn't feel good keeping it inside me.
I waited for this for a week, since the last final, Movie vs Flash. Yesterday I can't sleep, finish my work early and stayed @ home during the weekend to watch this. To support Flash. Yes I am a flash fan but Jaedong fans don't flame me because I support flash.
I skipped my weekend outing and was so hyped that my roomate thought I will go crazy soon.
The final was so dissapointed that I am crying so hard right now. To see your idol loses the huge momentum instantly due to accident and human decision and so much controversial that spans 200 pages not to mention fanboys saying unwanted staffs that made this post felt somehow uncomfortable to read.
From now onwards I think I shouldn't focus so much on starcraft. I will only play fantasy league and watch SPL. At least that is a team league they have support of the whole team if this kind of thing happens.
I just hope flash feels better, he must have felt bad for losing game 4 just like that. I hope he is still on fire, and doesn't slump from this. He is still young and still have a long way to go.
Jaedong must have felt bad that he won this gold in this kind of manner...
Never mind, I should calm down now.
Thanks for sharing. I too was hoping for Flash to win both starleagues this year. But Jaedong is the one player that it is ok for him to lose to in a finals. Flash used to just be very good, but now he is amazing, and I am sure he will be back.
If he can sort this out with Jaedong personally I think he can come back prove himself, with no doubts.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://thimg.dreamwiz.com/upfile/201001/1264245716112.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://thimg.dreamwiz.com/upfile/201001/1264248584196_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://thimg.dreamwiz.com/upfile/201001/1264248766196_2.jpg)
