EPTThis one is much better.
[Guide] The Stove - Page 6
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
This one is much better. | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4343 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
On June 12 2009 06:33 Louder wrote: Here's my version of the stove pvt: http://davidfells.com/sc/stove.rep So your version of The Stove involves going fast DT, all but killing your opponent, letting him live with like 20 supply while you have 70 so you can mass scouts, then you don't get arbs, then you waste another 10 minutes getting to 200/200 scouts, and then you finally finish him off even though you could have done that 20 minutes ago? There's something not even remotely entertaining about that. If you can finish the game, you have to finish the game, otherwise who wants to see your replay of you dicking around by yourself while your opponent is stuck in his base thinking 'if he could have finished me he would have! Maybe I can still win!" Kinda just BM and not funny at all. Not to mention super off topic  | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
On June 12 2009 07:07 Chef wrote: So your version of The Stove involves going fast DT, all but killing your opponent, letting him live with like 20 supply while you have 70 so you can mass scouts, then you don't get arbs, then you waste another 10 minutes getting to 200/200 scouts, and then you finally finish him off even though you could have done that 20 minutes ago? There's something not even remotely entertaining about that. If you can finish the game, you have to finish the game, otherwise who wants to see your replay of you dicking around by yourself while your opponent is stuck in his base thinking 'if he could have finished me he would have! Maybe I can still win!" Kinda just BM and not funny at all. Not to mention super off topic Sharing funny reps raping people with scouts on ICCup... about as relevant to anything useful in BW as this strategy you've kindly posted a guide to. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
The problem with your guide is that you more or less blur this distinction, I think the guide overall would be better if you did a the Stove then and the Stove now kind of thing, a little history lesson to people who understand what the Stove is and then give another perspective to the current state of the game. And I get the feeling you really don't have a good idea either, since the Stove was never meant for PvZ, just way too many things that can shit on your limited returns build. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On June 12 2009 02:58 Nightmarjoo wrote: theforeverwar, turrets do NOT nullify scouts or dts entirely. You aren't engaging 4-7 marines with one scout, if you did fight them you'd just attack and run back the same way you micro mutas and wraiths. With the way you talk I assume when you muta harass you just 'a' into a big fucking ball? Mines can be diffused with gosu goon micro, no problem. Clearly mines pose a potential threat to the dts which are core to the build however, so basic scouting will see if terran is opening fd (if he opened 1fact) or not. There's no reason why you can't go with a normal gameplan after scouting, you aren't going to be committed to your build yet. We aren't urging a suicidal gameplan, this build can work in certain circumstances vs non-terrible players, it obviously isn't ideal in some situations however. So, don't use it in those scenarios. Alternatively you can do some variation of the build, don't have to follow it exactly if you'd get better results by deviating slightly. 1v1? Which circumstances vs non terrible players can it work? (Answer: none. Against non terrible players is key) | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On June 12 2009 07:12 Chef wrote: So this was all a clever way of you saying you don't like this guide? Thanks for sharing your opinion. Actually it was the truth about the usefulness of your guide. This is like writing a guide on how to do a mass queen broodling rush... If your guide is a joke/justfor fun then fine. But don't act like the stove is a viable build. It isn't. | ||
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On June 12 2009 07:51 DamageControL wrote: At D levels it can work. Even when the other person is D. But a 1 gate dt rush would just win... So this is just extra bullshit. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On June 12 2009 07:48 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Actually it was the truth about the usefulness of your guide. This is like writing a guide on how to do a mass queen broodling rush... If your guide is a joke/justfor fun then fine. But don't act like the stove is a viable build. It isn't. As bad as this build is, Yeah, I'm really selling it. You know what? I truly believe my guide with pictures and jokes and little tips about the nuances of units used in the build is more useful and entertaining than some guy doing mass scouts after he's already won the game. Also, you're asking nightmarjoo for a 1v1... I'm sure he'll oblige, but you can't say "DO THE STOVE OR YOUR DUMB." If you know your opponents build, no matter what they're doing, it's a huge advantage. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On June 12 2009 07:51 DamageControL wrote: At D levels it can work. Even when the other person is D. It'll work easy on C levels too. I can't say anything about B levels because I don't play at that level (and I'm not going to be an idiot extrapolating my rank asking myself 'what if I played a few 100 games' ). But from what I've seen, it does happen on rare occasion that A level players will dick around with it in a casual game. | ||
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
On June 12 2009 07:53 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: But a 1 gate dt rush would just win... So this is just extra bullshit. Uh...I am d...and play at a D level. And yes we aren't very good, but one gate DT rushes are not auto wins, and the DT rush wouldn't have worked he had mines and turrets. | ||
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On June 12 2009 07:42 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: 1v1? Which circumstances vs non terrible players can it work? (Answer: none. Against non terrible players is key) Sure I'll 1v1. Time/place? From my understanding, stove is best vs a Terran who is opening 1fact cc with siege, getting ebay after cc. I'm not exactly sure of the timing, but if terran doesn't suspect you're going scouts, he's probably going to have 2-4 turrets max to be safe. Those turrets won't cover everything, scouts are simply too mobile. As he tries to make more turrets, you get to kill scvs trying to build. You can kill a misplaced tank or something too. Will stove work against a progamer? Probably not. Vs a B- terran or lower? Quite possibly. The key to stove is that terran isn't expecting it, and a terran even playing relatively safe is going to have some weaknesses, some openings for a scout to do damage. The scout isn't even the key here, the scout just throws terran off making terran more vulnerable to dt than he'd normally be. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On June 12 2009 08:38 Nightmarjoo wrote: Sure I'll 1v1. Time/place? From my understanding, stove is best vs a Terran who is opening 1fact cc with siege, getting ebay after cc. I'm not exactly sure of the timing, but if terran doesn't suspect you're going scouts, he's probably going to have 2-4 turrets max to be safe. Those turrets won't cover everything, scouts are simply too mobile. As he tries to make more turrets, you get to kill scvs trying to build. You can kill a misplaced tank or something too. Will stove work against a progamer? Probably not. Vs a B- terran or lower? Quite possibly. The key to stove is that terran isn't expecting it, and a terran even playing relatively safe is going to have some weaknesses, some openings for a scout to do damage. The scout isn't even the key here, the scout just throws terran off making terran more vulnerable to dt than he'd normally be. For T: 1 Fact CC the first turret completely built is at about 5 minutes, 16 seconds. For P: The Stove's first Scout pops out at about 4 minutes, 38 seconds. Don't forget this doesn't account for the time for that scout to make it to the main of the T player. And yes, you are right, those turrets will not cover everything, but it's not hard to place another turret within range, which means that expensive scout only got your opponent to throw out 75 minerals in the worst possible scenario. (though stove in PvT is much more viable than in a PvZ so I kinda agree with you) | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On June 12 2009 08:38 Nightmarjoo wrote: Sure I'll 1v1. Time/place? From my understanding, stove is best vs a Terran who is opening 1fact cc with siege, getting ebay after cc. I'm not exactly sure of the timing, but if terran doesn't suspect you're going scouts, he's probably going to have 2-4 turrets max to be safe. Those turrets won't cover everything, scouts are simply too mobile. As he tries to make more turrets, you get to kill scvs trying to build. You can kill a misplaced tank or something too. Will stove work against a progamer? Probably not. Vs a B- terran or lower? Quite possibly. The key to stove is that terran isn't expecting it, and a terran even playing relatively safe is going to have some weaknesses, some openings for a scout to do damage. The scout isn't even the key here, the scout just throws terran off making terran more vulnerable to dt than he'd normally be. I'm rain[lod]. Message me sometime. Whats your iccup id? Its pretty laughable that you think a B- terran would ever lose to the stove build. Hell even a solid C user would crush it. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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