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FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
On June 08 2009 08:41 ZidaneTribal wrote: i didnt know this is used vs zerg as well o.O? It isn't, really. It sucks against zerg (not that its actually great anywhere). But, awesome guide and really funny strategy. | ||
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Au
Japan19 Posts
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foppa
Canada451 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
I got mass goliath'd. Rape. Never used it again. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
Good guide though. | ||
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MutaDoom
Canada1163 Posts
On June 08 2009 07:51 neobowman wrote: Dammit, now everybody will be prepared when I use this against them -_-. I used to win all the time with this, might not now. Good job nonetheless. Neo, we saw Greth's game where you tried this. It was godly. | ||
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MuShu
United States3223 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On June 08 2009 01:03 Stimpacked wrote: im just defending my point that this build isnt just viable nowadays.. maybe back then but now never. marines can negate the scout. dts can be late bec of stargate plus lack of gas. and assuming every terran nowadays just adds turrets when they smell somethings fishy. and how the hell can it survive from a strong fd? I doubt it was ever viable. No one will argue with you that this is a bad build...I'm surprised you couldn't tell by Chef's tone in the OP. It's a joke build that can work against someone who's never played against it before, or someone who is really bad at the game. If it works twice on the same guy, he's bad. If it doesn't work the first time on someone, he's good. | ||
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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
He made so long, i am quite sure, for competing for sc2 beta key. For explain my point of view if i have to made a guide of "Going to toilet" i would never started speaking about "shit" and stomach anatomy, i would never say about water in medieval age. I would simply say: Get ur pants off and make it in a bathroom if possible(trees can work too). | ||
boesthius
United States11637 Posts
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Hans-Titan
Denmark1711 Posts
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
Stove is a perfectly acceptable build if you want to mix it up a bit, unless the Terran is a paranoid over-turreting maniac. It's a great way to force an ebay and an armory. It's a decent tech transition to arbiters too, you just don't have any robo tech, depending on what your opponent does it may not be necessary until later anyway. Also the guide kinda sucked a lot of pictures and jibberish that go nowhere | ||
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Stimpacked
Philippines368 Posts
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
On June 10 2009 00:35 Stimpacked wrote: i dont even think this is funny coz its a dumb build.. offguard? why? making turrets is for good players only? WHY SO SERIOUS | ||
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foeffa
Belgium2115 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I wonder how many people will think this is serious. :p | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On June 10 2009 00:25 Amber[LighT] wrote: i used to love doing the stove in PvT. It catches T players off guard so frequently. I've never done or known the stove to be a working strategy in PvZ. Wasn't it confirmed that Corsairs > Scouts for ovie harass? Stove is a perfectly acceptable build if you want to mix it up a bit, unless the Terran is a paranoid over-turreting maniac. It's a great way to force an ebay and an armory. It's a decent tech transition to arbiters too, you just don't have any robo tech, depending on what your opponent does it may not be necessary until later anyway. Also the guide kinda sucked a lot of pictures and jibberish that go nowhere If you got a corsair it just wouldn't be the stove. Anyway, a single scout is better than a single corsair (ignoring build time). Corsair power comes from their splash in numbers, otherwise they are just scouting Z tech and sniping a really, really stray overlord. I tried to explain how each phase of the build works and how each unit must be used... I wouldn't send a toddler into the bathroom and tell him to make it happen while potty training him (to use an example posted earlier in the thread...) and I wouldn't tell someone to automatically know how important it is to keep the scout alive instead of just killing stuff with it until it's dead and you free up supply. I'm sorry if it sounded confusing  EDIT: Of course I'm not saying it's as good against Zerg as it is against Terran... Just that it's possible to use on Zerg and has been done. Scouts kill those ovies really quick early game, and give your DTs some serious mobility if the Z doesn't want to spore or hydra (as apposed to getting 9 fast mutas which would absolutely rape if he could live past DTs). The only matchup I really think The Stove is just absolutely impossible is vs Protoss, because dragoons are a normal part of the matchup, you can get them quick, and they pretty much destroy everything in this build. I can maybe see a fast scout working if he goes for reaver drop, so that you could snipe his shuttle... I don't know. I've never actually done it vs Protoss. It just leaves you so wide open to DTs and DTs are such a popular strategy (and all you'd succeed in if he did is making your DTs later than his and cutting 375 minerals from your main army. It just sounds more like rolling the dice than taking a small disadvantage to play with some really fun units (as it is for the other matchups). | ||
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threepool
United States150 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3359 Posts
The stove was the 13th place pimpest play for 2002. http://sclegacy.com/feature/4-pp/269-pimpest-plays-2002#13 It may not be the one strategy to rule them all... one strategy to find t- er but it definitely has practical uses. Think about any 4 player ramped mains map. It's relatively common to block your ramp if you can by that time, and if they scout you last you'll definitely be able to block it, and without arousing any suspicion. You don't go stove unless you know you're the vastly better player if they scout you first and quickly, you have enough time to figure out whether you're gonna stove or not based on the game. If terran scouts you last, and the only thing he can scout is a goon blocking a ramp, the only thing he knows about your build is that you made a gateway somewhere and a goon. That knocks out very few possible strategies in his mind. He could assume you're playing "standard", for some 1gate expo, 2gate expo. You could be going 1gate or 2gate reaver, you could be going bulldog, maybe you're doing dt, or some mass speedlot timing attack bullshit. Or if you just read this guide, you could be going Stove. Who in the right mind would suspect it? Then holy shit he has a scout in his base! The only way to really counter this is by having made an early ebay, ie you have to suspect it's coming. That early ebay isn't viable vs half the other more likely strategical options you could've done since it makes their expo later, and they can expo first and ebay after and be fine vs the other half. Once a scout is there, what are they going to do? Waste money on marines who will only slowly lower the shields on the scout? The scout is going to kill the marine(s) and then go back to killing the scv making the ebay/turret. Not too long from then a dt is coming. Even with turrets, both the dt and scout can harass the terran in multiple places. If terran has mass goliaths, you're doing it wrong. Sure, you just spent the money requires to take an expo and a half on this tech, but you're able to harass terran, kill scvs you'd never normally be able to with another build, and completely threw his bo off. You should be able to salvage the scout even after it can't do any more damage, live another day to harass terran's main/nat/expo(s) or snipe shuttles, whatever. All stuff terran has to make turrets for and waste money on. | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On June 10 2009 01:46 Chef wrote: If you got a corsair it just wouldn't be the stove. Anyway, a single scout is better than a single corsair (ignoring build time). Corsair power comes from their splash in numbers, otherwise they are just scouting Z tech and sniping a really, really stray overlord. I tried to explain how each phase of the build works and how each unit must be used... I wouldn't send a toddler into the bathroom and tell him to make it happen while potty training him (to use an example posted earlier in the thread...) and I wouldn't tell someone to automatically know how important it is to keep the scout alive instead of just killing stuff with it until it's dead and you free up supply. I'm sorry if it sounded confusing EDIT: Of course I'm not saying it's as good against Zerg as it is against Terran... Just that it's possible to use on Zerg and has been done. Scouts kill those ovies really quick early game, and give your DTs some serious mobility if the Z doesn't want to spore or hydra (as apposed to getting 9 fast mutas which would absolutely rape if he could live past DTs). The only matchup I really think The Stove is just absolutely impossible is vs Protoss, because dragoons are a normal part of the matchup, you can get them quick, and they pretty much destroy everything in this build. I can maybe see a fast scout working if he goes for reaver drop, so that you could snipe his shuttle... I don't know. I've never actually done it vs Protoss. It just leaves you so wide open to DTs and DTs are such a popular strategy (and all you'd succeed in if he did is making your DTs later than his and cutting 375 minerals from your main army. It just sounds more like rolling the dice than taking a small disadvantage to play with some really fun units (as it is for the other matchups). I know it wouldn't, hence why I was implying that the stove is not a good PvZ strat. "A single scout is better than a single corsair (ignore build time)." Well yah of course. A single scout is better than a single corsair (depending on what "better" might mean). A single Dark Templar is better than a scout too (ignoring build time). An Archon is better than a scout (ignoring build time). Hell even a Dragoon is better than a scout (regardless of build time). You see what I'm getting at? You can't make a guide and say 'well a scout is good because if you happen to have it then its better than one of a different unit. I think in the time you create one scout (80 Seconds) you can create two corsairs (40 Seconds each), so perhaps it would be important to note the build time since you should be comparing getting one scout in the time it takes to make two corsairs. Consider the 40 seconds of scouting time lost because your scout didn't get out. I think you will miss the timing window to get cannons vs fast muta, and one slow scout can get sniped pretty quickly vs. x number of hydra. | ||
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