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Chef
10810 Posts
Furthermore, 2 corsairs is TWO HUNDRED gas. Which slows down your tech. When you're doing a tech build. A scout is 125 gas all on its own and eats less supply than 2 sairs. Not to mention you completely deny yourself the opportunity of maybe taking out a drone or two in the early game. I also think you don't have any idea how early I'm getting that scout out. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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538
Hungary3932 Posts
edit: LOL, I've just realized, nomen est omen Chef:D | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On June 10 2009 06:26 Nightmarjoo wrote: Amber[light] what are you talking about? A dragoon doesn't fly and can't harass to the level a scout can, in this situation a scout is better. One scout is MUCH better than two corsairs in this situation. have you tried to ovie harass with one scout? i hope you guys aren't serious about this :/ | ||
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Trozz
Canada3454 Posts
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XaraCoS
Australia45 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On June 10 2009 10:08 Amber[LighT] wrote: have you tried to ovie harass with one scout? i hope you guys aren't serious about this :/ Yes, it works a lot faster even with hydras around oO | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28701 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
Ever. Because it sucks. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On June 07 2009 15:29 FastEddieV wrote: No replays? I'd like to see where it shines best. What maps do you recommend this build on? No where, none. | ||
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Deleted User 31060
3788 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On June 07 2009 16:35 FastEddieV wrote: Do you recommend the upgrades for the scout? I feel naked using scouts without their apial sensors... Maybe as you're teching to arbiters, after the DTs are out? LMFAO. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On June 10 2009 03:15 Chef wrote: At killing overlords, you dunce. LOL Scouts do 28 damage air to air. Sairs do 5 unless they're attacking a group of units which splash will help with. If your goal is to snipe overlords to make a path for your DTs to attack, that big damage early game is important. Sairs don't get that powerful until you have 4 or 5 of them heading into the midgame. Furthermore, 2 corsairs is TWO HUNDRED gas. Which slows down your tech. When you're doing a tech build. A scout is 125 gas all on its own and eats less supply than 2 sairs. Not to mention you completely deny yourself the opportunity of maybe taking out a drone or two in the early game. I also think you don't have any idea how early I'm getting that scout out. So basically your saying "I love getting raped by 2 hatch hydra every game" Yes? Scout is vastly inferior to sair in everyway EXCEPT in the rare cases where zerg makes no hydra den and relies on a fast spore against 1 base P, WHICH SUCKS. And even then, they can do that while going pure 3 hatch speedling and still usually kill you(again only bad zergs would do this). A good zerg is always going to have hydras out in time for SAIR timing not to mention SCOUT timing. Scouts take longer to build, fly slower, cost more minerals and have crappy acceleration. As a result they are incredibly easy to deflect. Any player that knows what hes doing will crush you if you try to open scout first. Every time. Unless you're already way better than your opponent. But whats the fucking point in writing a strat guide for that situation? | ||
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Stimpacked
Philippines368 Posts
On June 10 2009 02:44 Nightmarjoo wrote: Everyone who keeps saying it doesn't work has probably never actually tried it, or tried it prior to reading templar's guide and fucked it up. The stove was the 13th place pimpest play for 2002. http://sclegacy.com/feature/4-pp/269-pimpest-plays-2002#13 It may not be the one strategy to rule them all... one strategy to find t- er but it definitely has practical uses. Think about any 4 player ramped mains map. It's relatively common to block your ramp if you can by that time, and if they scout you last you'll definitely be able to block it, and without arousing any suspicion. You don't go stove unless you know you're the vastly better player if they scout you first and quickly, you have enough time to figure out whether you're gonna stove or not based on the game. If terran scouts you last, and the only thing he can scout is a goon blocking a ramp, the only thing he knows about your build is that you made a gateway somewhere and a goon. That knocks out very few possible strategies in his mind. He could assume you're playing "standard", for some 1gate expo, 2gate expo. You could be going 1gate or 2gate reaver, you could be going bulldog, maybe you're doing dt, or some mass speedlot timing attack bullshit. Or if you just read this guide, you could be going Stove. Who in the right mind would suspect it? Then holy shit he has a scout in his base! The only way to really counter this is by having made an early ebay, ie you have to suspect it's coming. That early ebay isn't viable vs half the other more likely strategical options you could've done since it makes their expo later, and they can expo first and ebay after and be fine vs the other half. Once a scout is there, what are they going to do? Waste money on marines who will only slowly lower the shields on the scout? The scout is going to kill the marine(s) and then go back to killing the scv making the ebay/turret. Not too long from then a dt is coming. Even with turrets, both the dt and scout can harass the terran in multiple places. If terran has mass goliaths, you're doing it wrong. Sure, you just spent the money requires to take an expo and a half on this tech, but you're able to harass terran, kill scvs you'd never normally be able to with another build, and completely threw his bo off. You should be able to salvage the scout even after it can't do any more damage, live another day to harass terran's main/nat/expo(s) or snipe shuttles, whatever. All stuff terran has to make turrets for and waste money on. like i've said a terran who is denied of scouting will always add turrets.. turrets prevent any harrass dt or reaver or whatever cheesy builds.. and besides 4-7 rines on an fd cannot stop 1 single scout? are you dumb or somethin? and how are you gonna handle mines? how can you even get out with very late robo? | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
These guys pull it off against D high players and think the build actually works. PS yes ive tried this build many times mainly to embarass really easy opponents. I know how to use it, it just sucks ass. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
But yeah, as it's been said a million times (including the guide if you felt like reading more than just the title  ), if the opponent knows what's coming and has seen it before they can deflect it fairly easily. It's a surprise build that relies on the wit of the player executing it  The only thing I'm arguing is that in the case of this build, a scout is more efficient than a sair. Against Zerg, Z has to be generally really bad, but sometimes if the player is smart, it can be pulled off against okay Terrans. Moreover, at the low levels, even if you opponent is more skilled than you, this build works because it's confusing.It will work way past D, however, I will tell you that. This build gives you so many options, and so much scouting information... It's really up to the player to utilize that information rather than to say "This build sucks cause 12 hydra and overlords beat 1 scout and 2 dts in direct 1a2a3a combat." Of course they do. I feel stupid trying to defend the build lol, but I mean. There's it being an inferior strategy to modern methods, and there's it being useless. I think it's the former rather than the latter. It's also a lot of fun, in and of itself  | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
Mines can be diffused with gosu goon micro, no problem. Clearly mines pose a potential threat to the dts which are core to the build however, so basic scouting will see if terran is opening fd (if he opened 1fact) or not. There's no reason why you can't go with a normal gameplan after scouting, you aren't going to be committed to your build yet. We aren't urging a suicidal gameplan, this build can work in certain circumstances vs non-terrible players, it obviously isn't ideal in some situations however. So, don't use it in those scenarios. Alternatively you can do some variation of the build, don't have to follow it exactly if you'd get better results by deviating slightly. | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
http://davidfells.com/sc/scouts.rep | ||
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
I fully support any thread involving a scout. | ||
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
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