EPT
! [Q] Getting a Queen every game? - Page 3
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28670 Posts
not broodling but ensnare and parasite can be good | ||
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ahole-surprise
United States813 Posts
On October 03 2007 03:35 MiniRoman wrote: As a Protoss player, I wouldn't be really thrilled if a Zerg just parasited my temps. Like what am I going to do with a parasited templar? Don't like that thought one bit at all. Turn it into an archon? Edit: I just tested it, the archon remains parasited, long live the queen. | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
On October 03 2007 03:35 MiniRoman wrote: As a Protoss player, I wouldn't be really thrilled if a Zerg just parasited my temps. Like what am I going to do with a parasited templar? Don't like that thought one bit at all. Use it for the psychological effect? Anyway, some people will kill their low units if you parasite them....kind of funny actually. | ||
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MoNKeYSpanKeR
United States2869 Posts
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
Also, you can play ZvZ with hydras and get queens like Tsunami used to back in the day =D | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
ensnare massed science vessels | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
personally, i think queens are a hella fun unit, so i like to try hydra or speedling/lurk openings followed by a queen, just for surprise etc. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
But the only thing ive been able to effectively use ensnare for consistently is in a big army ZvP game, countering somewhere vs P while ensnaring their army and making response time absolute shit. Its pretty fun: ] | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17727 Posts
On October 03 2007 02:22 Chill wrote: When standard Zerg reaches the "next level", several armies will always have a Queen. All you need is a little foresight and one Queen with Ensnare researched to have a huge effect against Terran or Protoss. I don't personally use them, but I think every Zerg should start making an effort to add a Queen to their army if they plan on staying Lair and playing a drawn out mid-game. Now that macro games are popular in both ZvT and ZvP, Hydralisk openings are getting popular again too. I feel that skipping a Hive and over-expanding with the use of a Queen and HydraLuker is a very strong build, and these current maps are tailored to this build. That being said, playing 3 base Defilers with a LurkerLing midgame (against Terran) is equally strong. I feel really strongly that if the game continues to evolve, Queens will become mainstream within a year. More and more pros are using queens in their games At first it was just for show and rare nothing really game changing. I remember Iloveoov vs Jju on raid assault jju ensnared the wraiths. In zerg vs protoss pros are using ensnare. And yellow[arnc] vs canata on python he went queen to parasite canata's vessel to know where canata is. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
On October 03 2007 13:30 PsycHOTemplar wrote: I've been using ensnare a lot ZvP recently. It's pretty much ownage Well how's the difference between dark swarm and ensnare? Which has a better effect? Also it would be pretty nice to do pure hydra with queen to kill high templars but that's late tech anyways so it would be very late | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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greatmeh
Canada1964 Posts
On October 03 2007 10:06 mahnini wrote: I've been trying to work in a Queen on my games on Luna to parasite the critters, though I always forget out of habit. parasiting the critters can be very usefull | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
But queen could be somewhat useful to run around and scout like a sair does more so than using its spells like parasite (just likes sairs are mainly to scout and overlords can die as a secondary). They are pretty speedy. Darkswarm isn't as effective vs toss. Its really only good for breaking canon masses. imho a queen needs some kind of buff to be used more. Maybe a 2 armor bonus or something. | ||
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JustinSane
United States6 Posts
I'm not sure, from a theory craft perspective, why Broodling stacks up that poorly against Irradiate. It's true that Irradiate takes half the energy and can kill a Lurker worth 125/125, whereas the best Broodling can kill is a 150/100 tank (barring Ultras), but Vessels also cost 62.5% more than queens in total resources (and all of that in gas). Broodling is also instant, while it takes a little while for a Lurker to die from Irradiate. Queens are also faster than Vessels. Irradiate is no doubt better, but it doesn't seem like a landslide. I know that Liquid Drone has been one of the foremost advocates for queens in ZvT. In a post about a year and a half ago, he said that a primary reason Broodling was not useful was that if the queen was destroyed before the Broodling hit, it did not take effect, whereas Ensare did. I can see where that would make sniping one or two tanks with one or two queens very risky. If the Terran is going pure metal though, could he possibly kill 8-12 cloned queens before most of the broodlings hit? Or would cloning that many queens be too micro intensive to be practical? (At this stage, I've got trouble clonng my workers on start, so I don't know what is possible and what's not for someone who can actually micro). Or is committing that many resources to queens that will have to build up that much energy suicidal on its face? One last question on broodling: I remember years back reading Zileas proposing that a "build more Templar" strategy by Protoss could be countered by "build more Queens" by Zerg. But to my knowledge, he mostly played Protoss with some Terran mixed in near the end, and knowledge of optimal play has progressed immeasurably since that time. Has anyone ever tried using queens to snipe Templar? If not, why not? Corsairs? | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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noobienoob
United States1173 Posts
On October 03 2007 14:50 JustinSane wrote: They probably just don't want to rely on it, because relying on a spell that costs 150 energy on a unit that dies easily is uh, yeah. Not very dependable.. No strong players seem to use Broodling, so I'm sure there are compelling reasons why. Some of them seem like in theory they should be surmountable however.  On October 03 2007 14:50 JustinSane wrote: I'm guessing it's because irradiate only costs 75 energy, meaning you can use it twice as often as Broodling, and it works on all zerg units, unlike Broodling, which can't attack air units. So that means he can irradiate two of your Queens in the timespan you can Broodling a tank. Then it doesn't help that a Terran's main force usually consists of mostly massive anti-air, meaning that sniping the tank with broodling without the Queen dying becomes a lot harder. In contrast, even though you can get a ensnare on Vessels, you still need the anti-air to kill them, and it's kind of hard to do that when there's marines, tanks, and goliaths under the Vessels. Plague/swarm helps with this though.I'm not sure, from a theory craft perspective, why Broodling stacks up that poorly against Irradiate. It's true that Irradiate takes half the energy and can kill a Lurker worth 125/125, whereas the best Broodling can kill is a 150/100 tank (barring Ultras), but Vessels also cost 62.5% more than queens in total resources (and all of that in gas). Broodling is also instant, while it takes a little while for a Lurker to die from Irradiate. Queens are also faster than Vessels. Irradiate is no doubt better, but it doesn't seem like a landslide. On October 03 2007 14:50 JustinSane wrote: Yeah, from my experience, sniping Templars with Broodling works nicely. It works well in conjunction with parasite (allowing you to know where his units are making it easy to snipe), and also ensnare (very useful in many situations) and the fact that a lot of ZvP matches are macro-heavy, meaning you usually can get enough gas to support having several Queens without much sacrifice. Just watch out for Corsairs and Dark Archons (feedback).One last question on broodling: I remember years back reading Zileas proposing that a "build more Templar" strategy by Protoss could be countered by "build more Queens" by Zerg. But to my knowledge, he mostly played Protoss with some Terran mixed in near the end, and knowledge of optimal play has progressed immeasurably since that time. Has anyone ever tried using queens to snipe Templar? If not, why not? Corsairs? | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On October 03 2007 01:33 PsycHOTemplar wrote: I know you're not serious, but since you're insulting me, I'll humour that comment by saying it would be 10x more effective to ensnare the enemy's army during an attack ;P How could he lose mining time, when you ensnare his army? Are you drunk? | ||
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