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On October 03 2007 02:06 NoDDiE wrote:
ensensare the spider mine , then lure it with ling and start running with it , while watching the mine following it ^^
you might run with the ling into the eco line , and watch spider mine finishing the job XD
Would this work>? o.0 ive never seen an ensnared spider mine.
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I build a queen usually in ZvT simply because my midgame army is lurker ling and my lategame army is defiler/ultra/ling. Usually they lift a damaged CC around 800-900 HP, and if I have 2-3 scourge to spare, its' worth sacrificing them and infesting it. otherwise they just float and drop it when the MM/vessels come to the rescue. I usually won't do it if it costs more than 3 scourge though.
And at the same time you parasite a vessel, so you have vision of his vessels
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That video of Saviour vs GoRush was a awesome example why you should have queens in ZvT, god im gonna go try this right away 
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On August 08 2009 17:00 RyuriaL wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2007 02:06 NoDDiE wrote:
ensensare the spider mine , then lure it with ling and start running with it , while watching the mine following it ^^
you might run with the ling into the eco line , and watch spider mine finishing the job XD Would this work>? o.0 ive never seen an ensnared spider mine.
the only issue here is that for ensnare to work the unit (afaik, only tested it with zerg burrowed units) has to be unburrowed, else ensnare has no effect on it, so if you want to pull it off you should have high apm/good timing to ensnare the mine exactly when it unburrows and then guide the ling fast enough else your ensnared mine will blow off too early...
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well, i don't think it would be cost effective IF you only use parasite but if you do as ZerO in the game where he used 5-6 queens to snipe the high templars I think it would be worth it,
+ Show Spoiler +cuz ZerO won agianst Bisu with it
So if the game continues to evolve in the speed as last year I would bet that queens will be used
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best use of queens is against fantasy valkyrie play or against heavy wraith, an ensnare on either group basically means you've just gained a 1000+ mins/gas advantage on them. Other cost effective uses are if you go for a later game lurk contain zvp 2 queens and ensnare is cheap and adds a shitton of hits for each lurk, or zvt queens and ensnare/parasite are useful if used right. Just only build a few, and use them as scouts too, they have heavenly speed, if your careful you won't lose them.
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You guys are talking about queens like they're NEVER used in pro games. Watch Zero vs Bisu in this year's OSL. I believe that Zero's use of spawn broodling is the reason he won that game
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ZvT Queens against bio terrans is really really great, but they are unused for 1 reason: Queens ussually stay next to each other, so emp on queens would just ruin the whole plan. Now why queens are so great in zvt
When terran is pushing, spawning broodlings on 1-6 tanks (all) puts him in seriously bad position.
Ensnare. This things is marvelous against bio. Not only it slows them down 50% and slows firing rate by 18%, but it also negates all the stim effect. so basically ensnare slows stimmed marines by ~75% and their firing rate by ~45%. Just think about it, barely walking and twice slover firing rate. Zergling/hydra/lurkers, just sloughters the whole terran bio army. And all this is only for 1 queen's price. 100/100. So think about it, you can spend like 2000/1500 on aditional lurkers and lings and still lose, or you can spend 100/100, tech faster, and win. That speaks for itself. In some cases 1 Queen > 12 lurkers and 36 lings. Also queens are not used enough, because no real build order includes queens, and many people try to play as standart as they can, because they are afraid to get behind by making their own desicions/build orders. Thats the main reason why people don't use queens.
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On August 09 2009 08:08 ProoM wrote:
ZvT Queens against bio terrans is really really great, but they are unused for 1 reason: Queens ussually stay next to each other, so emp on queens would just ruin the whole plan. Now why queens are so great in zvt
When terran is pushing, spawning broodlings on 1-6 tanks (all) puts him in seriously bad position.
Ensnare. This things is marvelous against bio. Not only it slows them down 50% and slows firing rate by 18%, but it also negates all the stim effect. so basically ensnare slows stimmed marines by ~75% and their firing rate by ~45%. Just think about it, barely walking and twice slover firing rate. Zergling/hydra/lurkers, just sloughters the whole terran bio army. And all this is only for 1 queen's price. 100/100. So think about it, you can spend like 2000/1500 on aditional lurkers and lings and still lose, or you can spend 100/100, tech faster, and win. That speaks for itself. In some cases 1 Queen > 12 lurkers and 36 lings. Also queens are not used enough, because no real build order includes queens, and many people try to play as standart as they can, because they are afraid to get behind by making their own desicions/build orders. Thats the main reason why people don't use queens.
so much false information in a single post..
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On August 09 2009 08:08 ProoM wrote: And all this is only for 1 queen's price. 100/100. So think about it, you can spend like 2000/1500 on aditional lurkers and lings and still lose, or you can spend 100/100, tech faster, and win.
why didn't i think of this before
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
I'm kinda curious... If majority of the zerg players do catch onto Zero's frequent Queen play how frequent Restoration would be used.
How effective would it be to just spam use Restoration on Ensnared Marines? Since Ensnare does completely negate Stim Pack, wouldn't be be useful to clean them up, or would it be better to use that 100hp's worth of healing?
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Restoration is good only for plagued Vessels or BC, or parasited importants units. Otherwise it'd just cost to much for nothing really.
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Or for plagued marines when you drop an expansion and if you clean up just a few more zerglings you can kill the hatch or something like that.
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I started reading this thread, i read first post, second post and think "god, I'm quite sure I read this thread already". Then i look at the date :|
On September 03 2009 19:08 MrHoon wrote:
How effective would it be to just spam use Restoration on Ensnared Marines? Since Ensnare does completely negate Stim Pack, wouldn't be be useful to clean them up, or would it be better to use that 100hp's worth of healing?
Problem with restoration is - that is not AOE, so when you see it used, you see it only to counter lockdowns. It could be great skill to counter plague as well, but Z can cast it for mere 3 lings, and then you have to spend like 300-400 energy from medics and well... It requires more apm on T's part. Same for ensnare - you get (on average) like 6-8 rines ensnared and have to use 300-400 energy plus do more clicks than zerg. Also you probably have to stim and retreat in the meantime since Z is prolly attacking. Oh and ofc you have to irradiate at the same time.
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On September 03 2009 20:04 RaiZ wrote:
Restoration is good only for plagued Vessels or BC, or parasited importants units. Otherwise it'd just cost to much for nothing really.
well i guess there would be one situation for a Terran where it would be worthy to consider:
in case the Terran had to switch from mnm to mech during the game he likely would have some spare medics left over which he could use only for healing scvs, so that restoration(or even optical flare in case of mass wraith) would give them a purpose again.
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What's wrong with a queen. All you need is ensare and like 2-3 queens and your opponents have a huge problem to deal with. Since most (MOST) toss players around C,C+ level (like me lol) are 150 apm 1a2a3a nubs, the average C,C+ zerg, who have 200+ apm should have no problem annoying the shit out of toss players with queens.
Against terran, I can't say anything, cuz I don't know much about ZvT other than muta usage.
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On August 09 2009 08:44 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2009 08:08 ProoM wrote:
ZvT Queens against bio terrans is really really great, but they are unused for 1 reason: Queens ussually stay next to each other, so emp on queens would just ruin the whole plan. Now why queens are so great in zvt
When terran is pushing, spawning broodlings on 1-6 tanks (all) puts him in seriously bad position.
Ensnare. This things is marvelous against bio. Not only it slows them down 50% and slows firing rate by 18%, but it also negates all the stim effect. so basically ensnare slows stimmed marines by ~75% and their firing rate by ~45%. Just think about it, barely walking and twice slover firing rate. Zergling/hydra/lurkers, just sloughters the whole terran bio army. And all this is only for 1 queen's price. 100/100. So think about it, you can spend like 2000/1500 on aditional lurkers and lings and still lose, or you can spend 100/100, tech faster, and win. That speaks for itself. In some cases 1 Queen > 12 lurkers and 36 lings. Also queens are not used enough, because no real build order includes queens, and many people try to play as standart as they can, because they are afraid to get behind by making their own desicions/build orders. Thats the main reason why people don't use queens. so much false information in a single post..
this shit isnt even viable at d- level
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TBH, queens is insane in ZvT. Ensnare on MnM just completely nullifies stims which makes even hydras fit for taking em down. I bet someone good at Zerg could rape ppl with a hydra+queen combo.
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On September 05 2009 13:09 peidongyang wrote:
What's wrong with a queen. All you need is ensare and like 2-3 queens and your opponents have a huge problem to deal with. Since most (MOST) toss players around C,C+ level (like me lol) are 150 apm 1a2a3a nubs, the average C,C+ zerg, who have 200+ apm should have no problem annoying the shit out of toss players with queens.
Against terran, I can't say anything, cuz I don't know much about ZvT other than muta usage.
Lol do you know how hard it is to micro hydralisks and cast spawn broodling/ensnare at the same time? That and the resource hit is detrimental to most Zerg players. Queens get owned really easy by dragoons as well so they cant really get close enough and a 1a2a3a toss can probably use a few goons without much trouble to take out a queen about to do its dirty work.
That and feedback > any queen strategy!
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I'm thinking ensnare especially could have some use in zvt lategame. Terrans are ever so oftenly forced to retreat their units momentarily against swarm/lurker/ling and ensnare should make this sort of micro a lot harder for T. Parasite seems like wasted effort simply because ol's all over is sufficient scouting.
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EPT
