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Personally I've always wondered why Zerg pros don't incorporate Ensnare into their anti-mnm strats, or broodling templars. Broodling is too energy heavy probably, but ensnare seems like it would really devastate marine formations vs lurks/dswarm, whereas currently good terrans will fire->retreat->fire with stim making it easier.
On October 04 2007 02:14 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
3. It's really annoying how easily queens are countered by SVs via irradiate. Everytime I've tried to use queens in ZvT, they got irradiated soon after the T realized how much damage they could do to his army.
Irradiate in general seems a little unfair to me in ZvT since its such a versatile, catch-all spell that reduces the need to scout ahead and change counters. Every single Zerg tech unit is countered by a 75 energy spell on a fast, mobile flying detector with high HP. Irradiate single-handedly makes guardians almost useless agaisnt good terrans since it doesn't force a tech switch to wraiths/valks/gols at all unless the terran gets caught completely without vessels.
At least dswarm/consume, although extremely powerful raw, are on a slow-as-hell land unit with 80 HP, same with psi storm. I agree that Irradiate is definitely necessary in some form or another, but 275 dmg in an AoE seems too much. Even though ZvT is largely balanced, I feel that Irradiate cuts down the diversity of options in its present form, espcially at the lower skill levels.
Of course, at this point in the game nothings going to be done about it. But it seems like an oversight, particularly the mobility, speed and high HP of the vessel in comparison to the spells it has. Blizzard seems to have recognized this in Starcraft 2 by putting the irradiate equivalent on a slow ground unit, and removing the AoE.
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On October 03 2007 13:49 greatmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2007 10:06 mahnini wrote:I've been trying to work in a Queen on my games on Luna to parasite the critters, though I always forget out of habit.  parasiting the critters can be very usefull 
yo thats awesome
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I'm wondering on ensnaring muta+lings in a stack, does it matter if you're targeting a muta on top, a ling below or on the area they're gonna run into? Do both the flying mutas and the zerglings get ensnared in the area no matter what?
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On October 05 2007 20:04 Aerox wrote:
I'm wondering on ensnaring muta+lings in a stack, does it matter if you're targeting a muta on top, a ling below or on the area they're gonna run into? Do both the flying mutas and the zerglings get ensnared in the area no matter what?
Yeah so basically Ensnare goes through anything, much like how I remember when I was a noob playing Fastest map some guy nuked my Carriers while I was in the bathroom and he killed my Stargates along with it 
I actually used lots of Broodling once in ZvT; I grabbed about 20 Queens and massed Broodling on an expansion and I ended up infesting the guy's CC by sheer numbers of Broodlings -_- I was surprised he didn't lift or anything haha
He left right after
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On October 05 2007 20:04 Aerox wrote:
I'm wondering on ensnaring muta+lings in a stack, does it matter if you're targeting a muta on top, a ling below or on the area they're gonna run into? Do both the flying mutas and the zerglings get ensnared in the area no matter what?
Yes, everything is affected within the radius, regardless of stacking.
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I was reading over this thread and noticed that pros still don't use queens, but after watching a match of nada vs savior, i think that ensnare could reek havoc on terran players. Once a defilers out, terran players are forced to back out at every encounter that the zerg have a swarm up. If the zerg were able to hold the terran units in the swarm they could inflict massive amounts of damage. Granted the queen would get irradiated, but that's just one defiler or ultralisk that isn't getting owned by it. Ensnare would also give the lurkers more time to get burrowed and inflict some real damage. Also, ensnare + scourge or ensnare + plague could destroy groups of sci vessals that are closely packed. I believe that ensnare could punish terran players much more severally for backing out of fights, losing fights, and going for irradiates when they don't have the m&m very very close by. Just my thoughts.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
What boggles me is that Ensare reduces the fireing rate and speed of a stimmed marine back to what it would be like without stim. That alone is enough to warrant Zerg's using them - perhaps we'll see this as a natural evolution from the mutalisk strategies! (opening with lurker/queen)
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dark swarm + ensnare + lings = very many dead marines... as a terran I'm glad queens aren't used much :D seems like queens would be a really good intermediate unit while the zerg's waiting for defiler tech to finish. every time I think about it, it looks weirder that the pros never use them...
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I was just wondering if someone knew offhand if whether or not a Parasited unit still gives vision when it's in a Shuttle/Dropship/Overlord.
Someone mentioned how much it would suck to have a Parasited Templar earlier in the thread and I thought of it. I didn't read the rest of the thread though, so it may have already been addressed.
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Kau
Canada3500 Posts
Parasite gives you the vision that the unit has, along with any detection ability.
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Parasited units don't give vision when they are in some sort of transport(shuttle, overlord, dropship)
or in bunkers. On units outside transports it gives you the same sight range as the unit has and his detection ability if any.
Also by parasiting units with cloaking and burrowing abilities makes them visible when they cloak or burrow, but this is obvious.
But parasiting arbiters don't gives you vision of the nearby cloaked units.
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Did you guys watch that ICCup replay (the number 1 replay)? RIDICULOUS queen usage.
+ Show Spoiler +Although i was very sad that he didn't manage to infest the CC the second time.
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On April 09 2008 01:30 Luddite wrote:Did you guys watch that ICCup replay (the number 1 replay)? RIDICULOUS queen usage. + Show Spoiler +Although i was very sad that he didn't manage to infest the CC the second time.
What replay is that?
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its on the TSL Week One Review at the top left of the site. There were like 10 replays they released.
About the replay:
+ Show Spoiler +If you ask me, it wasn't that much queen usage really, just the hella early infest, which was awesome!!11!!!! :D, but nothing much more than that...) So i think the statement of "RIDICULOUS" is exaggerated.
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if you get a queen get esnare and in zvp trap the zeals with mass ling and run over him
in zvt esnare the MM and then surround with lurker/ling
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On April 09 2008 02:13 crazie-penguin wrote:its on the TSL Week One Review at the top left of the site. There were like 10 replays they released. About the replay: + Show Spoiler +If you ask me, it wasn't that much queen usage really, just the hella early infest, which was awesome!!11!!!! :D, but nothing much more than that...) So i think the statement of "RIDICULOUS" is exaggerated.
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah but then he built infested terrans, sent them in to damage the new CC while distracting the T's army with lurkers, and aaaaalmost managed to infest the new CC too.
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Obviously you all don't actually care about any of this and just want to infest command centers...
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Can anyone post more replays of Queen usage in higher level games?
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On April 08 2008 17:15 Plexa wrote:
What boggles me is that Ensare reduces the fireing rate and speed of a stimmed marine back to what it would be like without stim. That alone is enough to warrant Zerg's using them - perhaps we'll see this as a natural evolution from the mutalisk strategies! (opening with lurker/queen)
Maybe we'll see some queen use in the TSL or GSL
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It was also suggested a while back that queens work well in a group of mutas because they posses the same speed and reaction time while having an 11 sight range compared to the mutas 9. That alone + the odd parasite justifies the use of at least one queen. The fact that a queen cost less than a lurker is also an interesting point. Wasting your opponents irradiates on queens rather than lurkers along with the ability to ensnare + scourage to rape vessels seems like an economically viable counter to SK Terran. And then don't forget about ensnaring against stim...
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EPT
