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On May 14 2011 06:20 renzy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 05:48 Kiante wrote:On May 14 2011 04:28 renzy wrote:On May 14 2011 04:17 Severedevil wrote:
...and then I felt dumb.
Of course you can get more units by cutting probes than by not cutting probes. Dunno if this would compare favorably to a goon-before-second-gate build that also cuts probes at 19, however. I'll find out when I can. I've been practicing with that build last night. You need to cut around 10 seconds of probe. Depending on what you see, you can even get away with a probe at 19, and a dragoon at 20 instead of cutting probe a little longer with a dragoon at 19. You cut 15 seconds of probe max, but you get your nexus 40 seconds faster, and robotics faster as well, meaning u can make more probes faster, scout with obs faster, not to mention a better econ from 2 bases. It is definitely worth it. Because of the fast obs, when you see Terrans not putting the second fac in favor of armory first, you can get away with a third nexus with only 6 goons. So you're enjoying the build? Do you feel its superior to the classic 1 zealot 3 goon expo? It is a much better build than 1 zeal 3 goon expo. At C level atleast, most terrans cant respond well to this build. They end up making their CC in base when they see the 2nd gateway, and are quite a bit behind as a result. Edit: Not sure about the response in the blue and green ranks in ICCUP, but I doubt any C+ can come up with a proper response to punish the 40 second earlier nexus.
That is ridiculous.
ly awesome
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I like this build but i need to test it since i really like the idea of the build since i more of a econ type of toss ~.~
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On May 12 2011 12:28 tryummm wrote:
2 Factory is pretty easy to stop with 1 gate expansion build, you just need good Dragoon control and building placement. If stopped without a lot of damage, the Terran loses the game pretty easily. Moreover, the initial Zealot and/or Probe can generally scout whether or not a 2 Factory is coming. If not initially, if becomes evident since the Terran isn't making a Command Center that some sort of aggression is coming.
Really? I thought the only build 2 fac was good against was a 1 gate FE. Anyways this is a great build, thanks for taking the time to share it!
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Awesome stuff! I miss BW 
SC2 took over me.
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Australia7069 Posts
So anyways i altered the BO in the opening post a little after doing some more testing to include the probe cutting period.
Now i'm thinking of putting this into liquipedia, so i figured i'd get some community input here.
so, if you have ideas for these sections, please share!
Counter to
Countered by
Strong maps
Weak maps
Replays (if you have any where you think you played the game out well)
I think i can write the rest out (though i'll appreciate edits when it comes to transitions).
But yeah, if anyone wants to help out could you try and throw out some ideas for the underlined points there? Please include reasons ^_^
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strong maps: 2 player because of the fast scouting and lack of bbs.
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Isn't it a counter to 1 rax expand, assuming it gets scouted? They see 2 gates quickly, making it hard to decide if you are expanding or putting on pressure?
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The late goons give him more time to get tank with siege. Also, the nexus is obtained quite early even before the first goon is out. A scouting SCV will be able to see all of this.
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this build dies to 2 factory contain.
T pushes out with marines vulture and tanks and plant down mines outside of your base while researching siege mode.
Obs come out after siege, and T and just build supply depots and turrents and bunkers outside of your base.
super hard to break out.
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I would think that 2 fac dies to this. Your marine count will be very low initially since you will need your second factory to be down asap.
The earlier 2 gate will have higher number of goons and it can well hold your push off.
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The thing with 2 factory is that they dont need to kill you.
they can just contain outside ur base with siege mode.
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Yes that is correct. But the main thing is getting to that contain. By the time you get 3 tanks out, he will have around 7 goons out, which is more than enough to completely crush your push.
Since you are prioritizing siege before your expansion, losing the push will make you dead if you cannot do a contain.
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Australia7069 Posts
Defending a 2 fac should be easier than it is with a regular 1 gate expand because you're getting an extra goon out if they start the push with 1 tank. 2 fac vs this build will be hard, but its not unwinnable. the trick is catching the push at the terran base and forcing mines/killing marines/vultures before they get to your base while prioritising a shuttle out to bomb the tanks if they get sieged up
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Australia7069 Posts
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Kiante, I'm sure you've already done this, but in your next possible stream, play as many PvTs as possible using this build. Just a request.
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I'd also add that this build is weak against fast drop builds
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Australia7069 Posts
i've been using it in pretty much every PVT i've played since i made this thread. The only times i haven't are when i've forgotten my first pylon and rage 12 nex'd
lolololol
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Looks like a good build, but it seems to me like it's inferior to 12 nex against everything but proxy rax and BBS.
Am I wrong here?
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On May 20 2011 03:26 APurpleCow wrote:
Looks like a good build, but it seems to me like it's inferior to 12 nex against everything but proxy rax and BBS.
Am I wrong here?
The key is the goon and range timing.
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In all seriousness, this needs a super cool name as an opener.
I propose this build be coined the
+ Show Spoiler +
Bisoov Build - Edit in Liquipedia plz
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EPT
