• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:22
CEST 08:22
KST 15:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)75Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups?
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released 20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft Bot on ladder BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Fantasy returning?
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8764 users

[D/G]Bisu/oov's new PvT opening - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
May 12 2011 14:17 GMT
#41
the idea with that kind of push is you have your dragoons delay the push by forcing siege while you get a shuttle and some zealots out. once they're out you can bomb the tanks and you're sweet
Writer
Miwyfe
Profile Joined September 2010
England101 Posts
May 12 2011 20:43 GMT
#42
Good article thanks Kiante.
Well, my favourite game which used range, 2nd gate, double is this one
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/48001_Classic_vs_Tyson/vod

MBCGame Hero Protosses used it in a few games around that time. Classic opens with the rax double so I think you will be interested in this game. It is a brilliant game. Very clean, Im tempted to do an analysis on it.

Also you mentioned bias towards SK Telecom T1 players; Best has used the build on Fortress several times. Off the top, one against Frozen where he goes arbiter then 3rd nexus, and also one against ForGG where he goes 3rd nexus after 3rd gate with obs. Ive got the build orders written down for both these games if you want them.

The build is map dependant. Icarus and Fortress are short rush maps relative to others. Thats why you want a slightly larger army earlier on to be safe.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=193287
Flash vs Grape on Icarus, search the interview for the word 'rush'.

In my opinion:
A protoss player can use range, 2nd gate, nexus build against a factory first build by Terran to great effect, especially on aggressive maps. If P sees a rax expand, skip the second gate and get the nexus. This is a general rule for todays current maps. In starcraft things change.

Overall go watch Classic vs Tyson. It is one of my favourite games of last year! Enjoy
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
May 12 2011 21:30 GMT
#43
...no one has used the 2 Gate Range FE build before. Those games you listed are classic examples of the normal 2 Gate Range, but they sacrifice economy for much stronger aggression, whereas 2 Gate Range FE for some reason has an even better economy than 1 Gate Range FE
Writerptrk
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania9386 Posts
May 12 2011 22:23 GMT
#44
GW Kiante
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
phosphorylation
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2935 Posts
May 12 2011 22:27 GMT
#45
urgh toss don't need to any more new builds to help them out at the lower levels (under C iccup)
Buy prints of my photographs at Redbubble -> http://www.redbubble.com/people/shoenberg3
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
May 12 2011 22:42 GMT
#46
On May 13 2011 07:27 phosphorylation wrote:
urgh toss don't need to any more new builds to help them out at the lower levels (under C iccup)

Terran and Zergs getting the shaft foreigner-scene wise for builds lol..
Writerptrk
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
May 12 2011 22:44 GMT
#47
On May 13 2011 05:43 Miwyfe wrote:
Good article thanks Kiante.
Well, my favourite game which used range, 2nd gate, double is this one
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/48001_Classic_vs_Tyson/vod

MBCGame Hero Protosses used it in a few games around that time. Classic opens with the rax double so I think you will be interested in this game. It is a brilliant game. Very clean, Im tempted to do an analysis on it.

Also you mentioned bias towards SK Telecom T1 players; Best has used the build on Fortress several times. Off the top, one against Frozen where he goes arbiter then 3rd nexus, and also one against ForGG where he goes 3rd nexus after 3rd gate with obs. Ive got the build orders written down for both these games if you want them.

The build is map dependant. Icarus and Fortress are short rush maps relative to others. Thats why you want a slightly larger army earlier on to be safe.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=193287
Flash vs Grape on Icarus, search the interview for the word 'rush'.

In my opinion:
A protoss player can use range, 2nd gate, nexus build against a factory first build by Terran to great effect, especially on aggressive maps. If P sees a rax expand, skip the second gate and get the nexus. This is a general rule for todays current maps. In starcraft things change.

Overall go watch Classic vs Tyson. It is one of my favourite games of last year! Enjoy


i watched the vod. the build is different. What makes this build unique is you literally DONT MAKE A GOON before your nexus. Nothing, JUST range. The classic tyson game was a regular 2 gate, this build is special
Writer
WeRRa
Profile Joined December 2010
378 Posts
May 12 2011 23:22 GMT
#48
imo this build could struggle, if the terran builds just a bunker at ur nat, since u have no units, u cant really stop it.
so in the end i think the timings of the first goons are nearly the same as them if u do 12 nexus.
InnoVation Fighting!!!
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1806 Posts
May 12 2011 23:31 GMT
#49
Ya man. I think this build dies to BBS.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
vishrut
Profile Joined April 2009
United States567 Posts
May 13 2011 02:55 GMT
#50
to all the people saying that it dies to bbs, couldnt the toss just scout first for the bbs and then go on its regular rounds. The gates are there to start the zealot production just that they are not used so if a bbs is scouted should it not be easy to switch
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
May 13 2011 03:09 GMT
#51
Uh...

Aren't y'all comparing a CoreZ build against a no-zealot build? CoreZ builds cut probe and slightly delay dragoon to get an early zealot. If you don't have plans for that zealot, you do not open CoreZ.

The oddity in this build is that you go Range-Gate-Nexus before building any units. Is this really better than going Range-Goon-Nexus?
My strategy is to fork people.
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
May 13 2011 03:14 GMT
#52
On May 13 2011 08:31 JMave wrote:
Ya man. I think this build dies to BBS.

please read the OP. I recommend scouting for proxies and not doing this if you see a BBS
Writer
Rhaegar99
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Australia1190 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 03:36:09
May 13 2011 03:35 GMT
#53
On May 13 2011 12:09 Severedevil wrote:
The oddity in this build is that you go Range-Gate-Nexus before building any units. Is this really better than going Range-Goon-Nexus?


Your pulling probes off gas after range to get a faster nexus. I guess also cause your 2nd gate comes out faster, you'll have move units later on against fac timing pushes.

A bit off topic but does anyone know what happened to the 10/15 pressure build that use to be popular back in the days. I remember it being used a lot on Medusa and some other maps.
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
May 13 2011 03:38 GMT
#54
On May 13 2011 12:35 Rhaegar99 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 12:09 Severedevil wrote:
The oddity in this build is that you go Range-Gate-Nexus before building any units. Is this really better than going Range-Goon-Nexus?


Your pulling probes off gas after range to get a faster nexus. I guess also cause your 2nd gate comes out faster, you'll have move units later on against fac timing pushes.

A bit off topic but does anyone know what happened to the 10/15 pressure build that use to be popular back in the days. I remember it being used a lot on Medusa and some other maps.

I use it occasionally. Its fairly easy to block and easy to scout and puts you behind if they defend it, which is probably why korean pros dont use it very often.
Writer
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
May 13 2011 04:00 GMT
#55
On May 13 2011 12:35 Rhaegar99 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 12:09 Severedevil wrote:
The oddity in this build is that you go Range-Gate-Nexus before building any units. Is this really better than going Range-Goon-Nexus?


Your pulling probes off gas after range to get a faster nexus.

Of course. That's a very basic piece of optimization... normal 1 gate FE builds don't mine more gas than they want, either.

I guess also cause your 2nd gate comes out faster, you'll have move units later on against fac timing pushes.

You're buying an earlier second gateway to pump more dragoons. And to get it, you're not pumping dragoons.

Why is that a good idea?
My strategy is to fork people.
JMave
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Singapore1806 Posts
May 13 2011 04:06 GMT
#56
On May 13 2011 12:14 Kiante wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 08:31 JMave wrote:
Ya man. I think this build dies to BBS.

please read the OP. I recommend scouting for proxies and not doing this if you see a BBS


I have read the OP. Your assumption is based on proxy BBS. Even if he decides to go for BBS in his own base, you are still going to die if you do this build because of how late your units arrive.

I feel that the proxy is useful for a double rax rush but not needed. The only real significance is proxy off 1 rax because common logic is that your marine count is double with BBS than with a single proxy rax.
火心 Jealous. I always loved that feeling when I was young. Embrace it.
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
May 13 2011 04:06 GMT
#57
On May 13 2011 13:00 Severedevil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 12:35 Rhaegar99 wrote:
On May 13 2011 12:09 Severedevil wrote:
The oddity in this build is that you go Range-Gate-Nexus before building any units. Is this really better than going Range-Goon-Nexus?


Your pulling probes off gas after range to get a faster nexus.

Of course. That's a very basic piece of optimization... normal 1 gate FE builds don't mine more gas than they want, either.

Show nested quote +
I guess also cause your 2nd gate comes out faster, you'll have move units later on against fac timing pushes.

You're buying an earlier second gateway to pump more dragoons. And to get it, you're not pumping dragoons.

Why is that a good idea?


Because it gives you faster range allowing you to slow down FE's etc. You get 4 goons at a critical timing to defend an FD push (as we saw in the bisu bogus game). If you say got 1 gate then took the expo, you'd just have less goons all up and straight up die to the FD
Writer
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5098 Posts
May 13 2011 05:02 GMT
#58
very interesting build
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
May 13 2011 05:29 GMT
#59
On May 13 2011 13:06 JMave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 12:14 Kiante wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:31 JMave wrote:
Ya man. I think this build dies to BBS.

please read the OP. I recommend scouting for proxies and not doing this if you see a BBS


I have read the OP. Your assumption is based on proxy BBS. Even if he decides to go for BBS in his own base, you are still going to die if you do this build because of how late your units arrive.

I feel that the proxy is useful for a double rax rush but not needed. The only real significance is proxy off 1 rax because common logic is that your marine count is double with BBS than with a single proxy rax.

i've literally never, ever, seen someone do an in base BBS. Not to mention, in this build, you scout. You get 2 gateways fast. if something is up, you dont drop your nexus and you get units instead. easy peasy.

honestly though, where are you finding these terrans doing their in base BBS, seriously. O.o
Writer
henzi
Profile Joined November 2010
United States200 Posts
May 13 2011 05:36 GMT
#60
On May 13 2011 13:06 JMave wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2011 12:14 Kiante wrote:
On May 13 2011 08:31 JMave wrote:
Ya man. I think this build dies to BBS.

please read the OP. I recommend scouting for proxies and not doing this if you see a BBS


I have read the OP. Your assumption is based on proxy BBS. Even if he decides to go for BBS in his own base, you are still going to die if you do this build because of how late your units arrive.

I feel that the proxy is useful for a double rax rush but not needed. The only real significance is proxy off 1 rax because common logic is that your marine count is double with BBS than with a single proxy rax.



an in base BBS makes no sense since the distance is so long for marine follow ups, even if you take down the nexus, the protoss has range done and two gates, while you have two barracks and a bunker. I think this build has some flexibility, especially for in base BBS that gets scouted, cutting probes for that first dragoon, if scouting goes well
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 38m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 132
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2304
GuemChi 642
Leta 150
Bale 37
ajuk12(nOOB) 23
Noble 17
Icarus 10
sSak 8
Dota 2
febbydoto24
League of Legends
JimRising 633
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King168
Other Games
summit1g7675
C9.Mang0255
Sick142
Happy119
ViBE107
Trikslyr26
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick483
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream34
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Letter147
• killerbeecast3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2204
League of Legends
• Lourlo1199
• Stunt464
Other Games
• Shiphtur520
Upcoming Events
Kung Fu Cup
4h 38m
Patches Events
9h 38m
The PondCast
1d 3h
INu's Battles
1d 4h
Percival vs SHIN
Zoun vs herO
OSC
1d 15h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
OSC
2 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Patches Events
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.