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what do you mean by 'openings'
openings to fight? or to expo?
either way i dont see how any 'openings' could appear for toss, as it is evident you have a stronger army and expos really dont do anything if you cant beat the opponents army
after you took 2 o clock you could have let toss dodge you and expo all over the map while you just march down towards his main.
if you do this while his army is relatively near his main, he has no choice but to engage on you, whereas if you moved down while toss was on the other side of the map he would be forced to trade bases.
trading bases is the worse of the 2 options because his expos will then have a much larger impact on the game, so your aim would be to force his army towards his side before marching onto his main.
the alternative is you expo at 2 or 8 (wherever he didnt) and march towards the one he did. now you are even on expos and he has to defend his expo or trade expos with you. the advantage you have here is that you destroy bases much faster than toss does, so trading expos means you can follow his line of bases and systematically destroy everything he has. you could also split your army to defend and attack as you dont need your entire army to accomplish either.
taking position in the centre of the map on fs is not bad too. depending on what expos are left and his army movement, you could set up an expo in the middle and position yourself so that no matter where he moves your army is right next door.
tl;dr
toss shouldnt be able to dodge terran forever. once terran makes a move on an expo or main, toss must react by either engaging, recalling, or trading expos.
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On May 10 2016 11:21 Dante08 wrote:
What do you do on TvP cross position on FS in the below scenario:
- I'm at 10 and toss is at 4, let's assume standard openings and everything transitions to late game
- toss expands aggressively to both mains on 8 and 2
- I push out I kill his initial army and go on to kill his nat expansions at 2
- he never engages my army afterwards and constantly runs around the map looking for openings
- whenever I kill one of the nats at 8 or 2, he just builds another on the opposite location
- after some time I get worn down despite having a larger army most of the game due to the difficulty of securing a 4th
Push on the direction of your third. As you claim his nat you float a CC there. Have Vessels ready to EMP incoming Arbs, use Vultures to mine up the path of any counter. Three Comsats and 2+ Vessel should leave you in a favorable position to push the main nearest your third and cost him money in army, Gateways, Nexus and Probes as you expand to that main with another floating CC from your third. Remember, you are the cost-efficient race here. Lay Mines blocking his route to make a defensive counter and in your main for Recall. Sounds like you haven't lost many Tanks at this point so you should be in good shape. Even a partially depleted map-split favors you if it is played accordingly. I have lost many times to this patient and methodical style of play despite being up multiple bases because of the monetary investment I'd squandered, my Maynarded Probes dead, my defensive force rendered useless through savvy use of EMP. As you push, Protoss is the one under pressure, not you. Protoss knows it mus sustain status quo in order to survive the late game or win the mid game.
A rep in this case would be most beneficial to you IMO. Perhaps you are making tactical errors that do not use the full force of the Terran arsenal. Perhaps your 3 base push is too late to abuse the 5 base 3 main Protoss.
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Thanks for the advice guys. Yeah I think one of my main problems is I push out late on 3 base timing which allows the toss to set up other mains nicely.
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When toss does some kind of weird crap like taking 2 other main expos there just milions of ways you can abuse it:
- vulture harassment is super efficient (at least 3 locations he has to constantly look after)
- drops are super efficient (2 tanks drop + some vultures can easily take an expansion even if it's defended by cannons / pylon wall / 2-3 dragons)
- if there are not extra gateways (like 4+) in the expos, you just go for natural / main base and make it impossible to reinforce
- instead of chasing his army forever, exploit his weaknesses and force his army to defend (with for example above options)
- in general if you execute your build well this is complete bullshit and protoss should be dead well before he's able to take all these unsecured expos (+macro losses with probe transfers etc.)
As for expanding, rule of a thumb is: your opponent plays with flanks, take a strong central position so it's easy to fight each flank. This is commonly used in chess. Translating into starcraft language, take mid expo or expos that don't stretch your position too much.
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Hey guys, can I get some PvT advice? I'm pretty comfortable in early/mid game, but late game my decision making falls apart. Here are three 30 minute games where I feel like I was ahead at one point but ending up dying to either harrass, bad recalls, etc. Any tips?
Vs B Terran- This game I was farthest ahead I feel. At one point he had no tanks, no third. Somehow I fell behind after his vult harrass caught me off guard.
Vs Dr. Shrinker's Offrace Terran- I think a bad recall ended this game for me (right before his push).
Vs random D
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It's interesting, how you open DT drop^^
you want to attack a lot, it is an interesting style, but I think you need to lose less when you attack, focus on some objectives and pull back before you take too much loss, watch where to attack and strike in a better advantage. And you need to expand more, have a strategy of economy. When you are slightly ahead of T in supply you are not ahead, you must have a production advantage too. More gates than he has factories. Earlier expos. Think of expanding as your second best way of attacking T (for me it is first, but you have a different style^^). It's nice that you try to go kill his CCs/supply depots/SCVs, but you must also attack with your economy because it is a core part of P vs T : you need an economical advantage strategy because otherwise you lose to his cost efficiency and/or supply efficiency. As it goes you grab attack objectives but you lose too much and your economy comes too late or isn't supported by production power other than carriers, not enough if T can mostly stomp your ground army and then run around killing your nexuses while making goliaths.
If you want to attack more efficiently you probably need to infiltrate some obs to strike better (sight upgrade?^^), and probably think of storm drops too or (speed?) shuttles, or reavers, even if you do bring your army in too. Be swift, pull back at the right time. And while you attack, expand. Watch the probe and gate count.
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+ Show Spoiler +
How to make my Valkyries to shoot while moving away like this VOD??
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On May 16 2016 15:46 Me_ToKa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +How to make my Valkyries to shoot while moving away like this VOD??
its right in the liquipedia page for Valkyries
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On May 16 2016 16:52 Probemicro wrote:its right in the liquipedia page for Valkyries
TY! I've never seen this before. I thought that its a kind of magic...
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On May 16 2016 18:28 Me_ToKa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2016 16:52 Probemicro wrote:On May 16 2016 15:46 Me_ToKa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +How to make my Valkyries to shoot while moving away like this VOD?? its right in the liquipedia page for Valkyries TY! I've never seen this before. I thought that its a kind of magic...
![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/63/Queen_A_Kind_Of_Magic.png)
But it is, brother. Brood War is magic.
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On May 16 2016 23:56 Jealous wrote:
But it is, brother. Brood War is magic.
Yep!
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Hey guys, can I get some PvT advice? I'm pretty comfortable in early/mid game,
Because you spend the whole early game with DT drop / DT rush / Reaver drop. I don't think you even bother practicing late game at all. The games we played yesterday it was obvious if we reached the late game You don't reproduce new army fast enough.
I think all you need is more and more games that you actually play late game and not spam DTs / Reavers 
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On May 17 2016 15:54 Wrath wrote:Show nested quote +Hey guys, can I get some PvT advice? I'm pretty comfortable in early/mid game, Because you spend the whole early game with DT drop / DT rush / Reaver drop. I don't think you even bother practicing late game at all. The games we played yesterday it was obvious if we reached the late game You don't reproduce new army fast enough. I think all you need is more and more games that you actually play late game and not spam DTs / Reavers
i dunno you obv know his playstyle i just wanted to add that Reavers PvT can be a legitimate tool in PvT to bridge parts of the early game and let's you transition into lategame without to much commitment. Plus a shuttle+reaver can be used quite well to defend early pushes. So i don't think it's a thing that necessarily is bad for your late game, obv. you have to focus enough on macro while harassing to get to it in the first place. That's the hard part 
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TvP on Fighting Spirit
I go for FD, he goes for nexus first. I scout his nexus first, I'm at 17 supply with 1 marine and 80% factory. What should I do?
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Did you cut a marine? Usually you have 2 by that time, so that you can start your bunker rush with like 6 SCVs when your 3rd marine as well as your factory finishes. The rallied vulture should arrive shortly after you started your engagement at his natural. If he goes for some weird fast forge followup you should go for siege tanks instead and slow push it asap.
Edit: You can check out the last game between Sugo and me in the most recent Germany vs Canada Nation War. It should cover your question pretty much. It wasn't the most successful rush, but the general reaction is shown.
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So there is absolutely no hope to go to late game (macroing to it not from failed rush or something like that)? I HAVE to rush or just gg at that point?
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On May 24 2016 23:55 Wrath wrote:
So there is absolutely no hope to go to late game (macroing to it not from failed rush or something like that)? I HAVE to rush or just gg at that point?
Mine double expand
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Personally I see bunker rushing as the most consistent option. I also tried the mine double expand for a while but I often ran into the problem that you cannot get mines or speed fast enough to contain them directly at their natural, so you have to mine multiple paths and he can just use the first zealot to clear one path to the third or nat and it is really hard to stop the initial 1 zealot 2 goon attack with 2 more goons on the way with only vultures from 1 Fac.
If Protoss only went for 1 gate after 12 Nexus, it would be a better option, but then I would bunker rush him even if I cut 1 marine as 1 goon at a time is way easier to handle.
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But most Protoss goes 2 gate after 12 Nexus. That is why my rush started to fail. the double goon production is a pain in the ass to deal with.
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On May 24 2016 23:55 Wrath wrote:
So there is absolutely no hope to go to late game (macroing to it not from failed rush or something like that)? I HAVE to rush or just gg at that point?
I understand your momentary frustration, but I think the way you put it is a bit of an exaggeration/dramatisation. From my experience, up to C rank the Protoss will hardly be able to use the full potential of the possible early income-boost (especially by bad probe-production, supply-blocks and slow reinforcement), and there will be chances to catch up if your play is solid.
In fact, many of these Protosses who go for 12nex notoriously do so exactly because they need that economic edge, and they seem to get away with it too often because the Terrans don't know how to bunker-rush properly (like me).
If you don't like to bunker-rush, then just expand asap with mines (see above), and make sure you know if Protoss' plan is a fast 3rd (or scout/scan the main if you can). If not, then expect a strong attack and prepare for it (tanks, turrets, wall, bunker, mines). If it is a fast 3rd, then you should be able to take the game to the lategame somehow (anything can happen once you have enough tanks), if it is a strong attack, then you can even out the game by a good defense.
12nex on the ladder can be frustrating if you tend to play safe builds that are neither greedy nor aggressive. Just see it as good practice then. If you know your opponent and you know that he/she likes to 12nex, then you can practice 1rax-expand or bunker-rush-builds specifically to face such Protosses. You should probably do so anyways at some point to add more strategic flexibility to your play.
That said, I too hate to play against 12nex in general, especially if I don't scout it on first try or if I didn't rax-expo myself.
I feel exactly like you probably do: Protoss can do this and either
A) be ahead economically with good chance of not getting punished - on (big) 4player maps the chance is 2:1 that Protoss gets away with it with little option for punishment whatsoever against standard builds - or
B) force me into what is basically an all-in (bunker-rush), which some people just don't like to do.
I hope noone even attempts to argue that 14CC - as sort of Terrans' 'mean' greedy-build - comes with a comparable overall safety in TvP. It can work out nicely, but it is vulnerable to even basic zealot/goon pressure (not talking about aggressive builds, and even the scouting probe is a bigger problem than the scouting SCV vice versa). Basically P cannot fail to do some damage against 14CC by shooting the bunker, while 12nex often gets away completely unharmed. And even a late scouted 1rax-expo takes more guaranteed damage on the bunker than a late-scouted 12nex.
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EPT
