EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 240
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Jealous
10404 Posts
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alwalo
8 Posts
1. In TvZ when should i go for sk terran and when go for mech switch ? I understend how to play and what they achive on theoretical level (not practical yet  ) Both are difficult to pull off and i am currently planning sticking to Fighting Spirit to get simcity right.2. I seen Light simcity thread, but how should i build my buildings when going for mech switch ? I already understand that most standard is: a) for bio rax rax rax ebay rax rax fac-mshop starport starport b) for mech: fac fac-mshop fac fac fac-mshop fac fac fac-mshop 3. Is there way to make idle workers mine after they finish building ? Or some hotkey trick ? Or do i have to manualy move them back after they finish ? 4. Does scout ever have viable use in right situation other than humiliating opponent with stove build ? 5. Is FD opening into 2 base push standard ? If not what whould you recommend for TvP ? Just this questions for the beginning. First is most important for me. Probably will have much more later. | ||
c3rberUs
Japan11892 Posts
1. Terran players can tell you better stuff than I can. 2. Simcity is how you position buildings in the map. I think the word you are looking for is build order. 3. You simply shift+right click on the minerals after giving them the build command. Do this before they start building. You can do this on sc2 and other RTS as well afaik. 4. Scout can be used to hunt overlords and they counter BCs and Carriers pretty good. It's viable but rarely. 5. Again, Terran players can tell you better stuff than I can. | ||
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alwalo
8 Posts
Re: 2. Nach i kinda know that i need 5 rax into 2 fac into 1 port and than add another 6 fac but it is really difficult and i always run out of space/get units stuck somewhere. I know that i can later float rax but still. 3. Mind blown. I do this always in Sc2 but figured it is impossilbe in bw since you cant do this after worker start building. 4. Ok. | ||
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Scarbo
294 Posts
On January 18 2016 00:25 alwalo wrote: Hey, i am sc2 player who transitioned to broodwar. I am currently refining my build orders vs ai in all 3 matchups and practicing lategame macro. Will definiately start to play on iicup this week. Couple of questions: 1. In TvZ when should i go for sk terran and when go for mech switch ? I understend how to play and what they achive on theoretical level (not practical yet ) Both are difficult to pull off and i am currently planning sticking to Fighting Spirit to get simcity right.2. I seen Light simcity thread, but how should i build my buildings when going for mech switch ? I already understand that most standard is: a) for bio rax rax rax ebay rax rax fac-mshop starport starport b) for mech: fac fac-mshop fac fac fac-mshop fac fac fac-mshop 3. Is there way to make idle workers mine after they finish building ? Or some hotkey trick ? Or do i have to manualy move them back after they finish ? 4. Does scout ever have viable use in right situation other than humiliating opponent with stove build ? 5. Is FD opening into 2 base push standard ? If not what whould you recommend for TvP ? Just this questions for the beginning. First is most important for me. Probably will have much more later. 1. Double starport is far from std 2. Stick to mech switch until you become a better player, sk is extremely difficult once defilers come out. The most important thing to understand about switching to mech is that mines are the best tool against defilers (and irradiate ofc). Switch is usually made on 3 base because of the gas needs of the mech army, but this doesn't stop you from investing in the mine upgrade and pumping vultures out of 1 or 2 factories. 3. FD is weak against 2 gate goon pressure, which is probably the most common build on low level ladder. Also it's not super good against DT rush which is probably the 2nd most common build on low level. Stick to siege expand imo. You can switch one for the other if you scout the 2nd gate but you're still weak vs DT rush. As for the 2 base push idk, it's not std but can be viable at low levels. 3 base play is more common. Rest was answered by cerberus Edit: it's not std to get 2 fact before starport in ZvT. Idk where you got that from but check your sources. If you're going bio it's 1 fact into starport and then you add factories as you switch. Oh and space is an issue. The solution is to float the rax after you get a decent number of factories (3-4). When you tech to mines there's usually gonna be a timing where the zerg doesn't have map control so you can use that to get your shit going. Edit2: watch Cryoc's video on siege expand And check my thread for some tutorials on the mechanics of the game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/502270-brood-war-tutorial-series | ||
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alwalo
8 Posts
1. Double starport is far from std I thought it was what defines SK Terran. 2. Stick to mech switch until you become a better player, sk is extremely difficult once defilers come out. The most important thing to understand about switching to mech is that mines are the best tool against defilers (and irradiate ofc). Switch is usually made on 3 base because of the gas needs of the mech army, but this doesn't stop you from investing in the mine upgrade and pumping vultures out of 1 or 2 factories. Ok I will stick to mech switch for now. But since i like to understand game in what situations is SK terran favoured ? 3. FD is weak against 2 gate goon pressure, which is probably the most common build on low level ladder. Also it's not super good against DT rush which is probably the 2nd most common build on low level. Stick to siege expand imo. You can switch one for the other if you scout the 2nd gate but you're still weak vs DT rush. As for the 2 base push idk, it's not std but can be viable at low levels. 3 base play is more common. Ok siege expand it is. I will try to understand early choices better by playing and reading TL wiki. Edit: it's not std to get 2 fact before starport in ZvT. Idk where you got that from but check your sources. If you're going bio it's 1 fact into starport and then you add factories as you switch. Oh and space is an issue. The solution is to float the rax after you get a decent number of factories (3-4). When you tech to mines there's usually gonna be a timing where the zerg doesn't have map control so you can use that to get your shit going. I read how to play late mech from this post: www.teamliquid.net exact quote on 2 fact: 3 - Start teching to Starport. This means that as soon as you can, plop down a factory, and then a second factory shortly after. The first upgrade you'll get is Siege Mode, but then get spider mines shortly after. Ideally, you'll want your science vessel to be ready at 11 minutes into the game, so make sure you build each tech building immediately after the prior one finishes. Thank you a lot for link to siege expand. Will definiately watch your vids, planned to do so anywas. | ||
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Scarbo
294 Posts
On January 18 2016 01:46 alwalo wrote: I thought it was what defines SK Terran. Ok I will stick to mech switch for now. But since i like to understand game in what situations is SK terran favoured ? Ok siege expand it is. I will try to understand early choices better by playing and reading TL wiki. I read how to play late mech from this post: www.teamliquid.net exact quote on 2 fact: Thank you a lot for link to siege expand. Will definiately watch your vids, planned to do so anywas. I thought you were talking about 2-port wraiths. Yeah 2 ports is what you go for in SK, but in that case you don't get a machine shop (normally). You just make the factory to unlock the starport. Idk when SK is favored since I don't play it and I rarely see pro's doing it as well. I had a quick read on the post you provided but it has too many inconsistencies. Doesn't seem to be written by an experienced terran player. For example he advises you to build 2 eng bays and then transition to mech. Idk if this was meta a long time ago but I've never seem a pro do this, unless he's doing an ultra late mech switch. Problem with this is that the post advises you to mech switch asap lol. It's basically burning money. Getting the 2nd factory is going to delay your vessel unless you have surplus gas . It's an interesting idea if you use it to only produce vultures but if you're upgrading from 1 machine shop only it will be a while before you get mines and you probably need the minerals for turrets+marines+other stuff anyways. I can see throwing the 2nd factory down after the starport but never before. Remember that nothing is set in stone. Adapt to the specific situations of your game. For example I've seem pros do SK Terran and use the factory to get only vultures out and plant mines. I've seem them stay on 3 rax and go for a switch... there's not one way. Oh and btw 5 rax is not the std as well. The fifth rax money (and the money to macro from it) will come at the expense of turrets, which means you need to really count on your marines to defend against mutas. | ||
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alwalo
8 Posts
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Scarbo
294 Posts
On January 18 2016 02:22 alwalo wrote: Thank you for extensive write up ! This forum is great. Ok i feel like i know how i will play all 3 match ups now. Last questions. Since i have one ebay how far i upgrades will you go ? Just 1-1 ? Or more ? Can't help you there, I'm not that good haha I know what I do but to give you a confident answer on when to do this or that is not happening. Best advice I can give is to watch pro replays and see what they do. I'd focus on other things now if I were you. | ||
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alwalo
8 Posts
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Cryoc
Germany914 Posts
That post regarding the mech switch is from ninazerg who is a zerg player so the given advice there is not too good. On January 18 2016 00:25 alwalo wrote: Hey, i am sc2 player who transitioned to broodwar. I am currently refining my build orders vs ai in all 3 matchups and practicing lategame macro. Will definiately start to play on iicup this week. Couple of questions: 1. In TvZ when should i go for sk terran and when go for mech switch ? I understend how to play and what they achive on theoretical level (not practical yet ) Both are difficult to pull off and i am currently planning sticking to Fighting Spirit to get simcity right.2. I seen Light simcity thread, but how should i build my buildings when going for mech switch ? I already understand that most standard is: a) for bio rax rax rax ebay rax rax fac-mshop starport starport b) for mech: fac fac-mshop fac fac fac-mshop fac fac fac-mshop 3. Is there way to make idle workers mine after they finish building ? Or some hotkey trick ? Or do i have to manualy move them back after they finish ? 4. Does scout ever have viable use in right situation other than humiliating opponent with stove build ? 5. Is FD opening into 2 base push standard ? If not what whould you recommend for TvP ? Just this questions for the beginning. First is most important for me. Probably will have much more later. To 1. I am not so good and go rarely SK-Terran myself but from my understanding, you mainly go SK-Terran of you play on a rather open map like Tau Cross or Python for example or with a far away third gas, or if zerg goes for crazy zerg. FS for example has only ramped expansions which are easy to defend, which is why bio doesn't get you too far. So mech switch is much better on FS. My rts intuition tells me - if i lot of bio survived go for 2-1 if not just stay 1-1 and dont wast resources. Thank you for your help! I will go play and see how it all works out in practice :D If you go for the "standard" mech switch after 4rax, you usually don't get more than 1-1 because you will only produce little additional bio and you need the gas for the factories. A common TvZ with mech switch would look like about (Zerg goes 3 Hatch Muta): 1 Rax expand into +1 4/5Rax or 2Rax Academy into 3 Tank/1 Vessel push into 3 Fac and 3rd/4th CC. You add those factories during your predefiler push, research mines and speed and build vultures to secure the map for additional expansions against the inevitable dark swarm push and zergling runbys. Depending on the succes of your first attacks you can expand before adding more factories. After you got your expansions up you make the full switch. To 5. 3base play is in general more standard, but when you hold off a very aggressive opening with little losses, it can make sense to go for a 2base push, because your economy is superior. | ||
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Ty2
United States1434 Posts
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Jealous
10404 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
Obviously I know i shouldnt just jump into "ladder" cause i know im going to get my shit kicked in, but would at least play on fighting spirit and such. Again I looked but not sure where else to ask this question and would like to learn this game but sadly not sure how to get it started. Inb4 someone shits on me for not knowing how to even get started with a game as difficult as bw but I want to learn so if you cant help no comments of "dont waste your time if you cant figure this ez shit out" Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. | ||
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Scarbo
294 Posts
On January 18 2016 20:56 starslayer wrote: OK so sorry if the answer is some where else but cant find it. I am completely new to bw I play sc2 and am used to there ladder system but am so lost when it comes to bw. I understand i should play fish or something but that's it. Basically I have the game install and thats as far as i've gotten, I would like to play on the same maps as the pros, so do I need to download them or sign up for a server like fish or what, I have no clue. Obviously I know i shouldnt just jump into "ladder" cause i know im going to get my shit kicked in, but would at least play on fighting spirit and such. Again I looked but not sure where else to ask this question and would like to learn this game but sadly not sure how to get it started. Inb4 someone shits on me for not knowing how to even get started with a game as difficult as bw but I want to learn so if you cant help no comments of "dont waste your time if you cant figure this ez shit out" Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. Start on iccup, download their mappack and get a launcher like mca64 or ChaosLauncher. | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
On January 18 2016 20:56 starslayer wrote: OK so sorry if the answer is some where else but cant find it. I am completely new to bw I play sc2 and am used to there ladder system but am so lost when it comes to bw. I understand i should play fish or something but that's it. Basically I have the game install and thats as far as i've gotten, I would like to play on the same maps as the pros, so do I need to download them or sign up for a server like fish or what, I have no clue. Obviously I know i shouldnt just jump into "ladder" cause i know im going to get my shit kicked in, but would at least play on fighting spirit and such. Again I looked but not sure where else to ask this question and would like to learn this game but sadly not sure how to get it started. Inb4 someone shits on me for not knowing how to even get started with a game as difficult as bw but I want to learn so if you cant help no comments of "dont waste your time if you cant figure this ez shit out" Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. Hi, welcome to brood war. I recommend that you start with watching some VODs from one of these two threads: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/429855-recommended-fpv-games-post-kespa http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-tournaments/402419-small-vod-thread-20 You can get some extra details regarding build orders through liquipedia (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Main_Page ) . In the beginning I think it's best if you stick to one race. Try playing some random versus the PC and determine which race you connect the most with (i.e. you have the most fun with). After you've got a general idea of the match ups of your race and you've practiced them versus the PC (just to make sure you don't have to think anymore about: Oh now I need another barracks/gateway/...), you'll be ready to join ICCup. Since you've already gotten the game, the next thing is to get a launcher such as mca64, in my opinion definitely the best one out there. You can download it here: http://mca64.com/mca64Launcher/index.htm First you'll have to make an account at iccup.com such that you can play on the server. Then use mca64 to launch starcraft. Open the multiplayer and select the ICCup server. You're ready to play! I wouldn't care too much about losing/winning in the beginning, just get some ladder games going (will be significantly easier if you can host games!). Good luck. PS: You can get the latest map pack for ICCup here http://iccup.com/en/starcraft/files/download/8baec2636e2809e635d2457d9c9bc0c5/StarCraft_Official_Map_Pack_01.html | ||
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Jealous
10404 Posts
Good luck, have fun! And despite the fact that we as a community do shit on people sometimes, it's usually when it is warranted, which your post is not ^^ | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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LetaBot
Netherlands557 Posts
As in, which race benefits the most from the extra multi-tasking that a second player gives? | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
On January 20 2016 01:13 LetaBot wrote: In a 2 vs 2 Team Melee game where each teammate has to pick the same race ( not random, so basically a standard 1 v 1 but a second player also controlling the units ), which race would be the best option? As in, which race benefits the most from the extra multi-tasking that a second player gives? definitely a toss up between zerg and terran, opinions will probably differ on who you ask. terran units simply have tons of micro potential that are not fully realised in engagements due to the need to balance micro and production. on the flipside zerg, sheer amount of units necesaary in lategame means a split in micro/macro reponsbility would allow for much better engagements/control overall. larva and resources would be more efficiently utilised, leading to a crazier sauron zerg. think jaedong on steroids. so i go with zerg | ||
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