On March 25 2013 09:44 Golgotha wrote: 1. When playing Python 1v1 on fish, in a ZvP, do I go for that 3rd expo early on or just have my 3rd hatch in base? I guess it depends on map position and what the other guy is doing, but early 3rd on that map seems dangerous and risky. But I want to play standard like I do on FS, so I am unsure what style to play on Python. I hate python hehe.
2. My biggest enemy right now is that damn probe that blocks my nat with pylon. It delays my expo and while I wait for my pool to finish, I dont know what to do and what to build in the meantime. I feel like the probe delays me so much and I am playing catch up. Id rather face reaver drops than this probe. Especially when I 12 hatch and the probe is there, I don't know what to do. Do I keep droning while my drone just goes for another base? If so when do I get my gas? It really stinks up my gas timing.
And, if the guy is Terran and doing it with a depot, I should just place an in base hatch instead of a nat hatch right? I think that would work.
in zvp you always take 3 bases vs forge fe; don't ever in base hatch unless he's going 1 base tech. you should open 9pool on python every matchup anyways, easy to get cheesed due to short rush distance and the natural's really wide.
if you get blocked, and you know he's going forge fe due to ovie scout, take your third first, and then your natural when the pylon is canceled. if you don't know forge fe it could be a 2gate so just put down your pool. remember that every pylon he puts down delays his tech and gas timing so if you can keep your gas timing at normal time then you can get an advantage in tech and force him to get extra cannons for muta defense because his stargate is late or something.
if terran is doing it with depot that sets him really far behind in either marine count or CC, i don't think it's that good for terran to do it but i could be wrong
In this game I know I have the advantage and I can win the game. I delayed at least one of his expos and I took down his main. But I run into a wall. An invisible wall to be exact! At first I thought my lings were being screwed up by a pylon block on top of the ramps, but he had DTs on hold position! First time facing this and I just froze. After I took down his main I was on autopilot and just spammed lings.
I haven't been in late game situations like this where I am ahead but I cannot break his expos. I had real bad tunnel vision and thought that my 3-3 lings would surely win me the day (been watching TSL and cracklings can destroy a nexus in 4 seconds). Sadly, they just kept dying and I was wondering what was going on. I attacked two locations at once to make my opponent multitask, but he stood firm.
Man but this game is sure fun. addicting.
I think this game shows my key issues and I was hoping you guys can watch and tell me what areas I need to work on most. Thanks again!
As I am watching, here are my notes: btw I am a D+/C- borderline Protoss player right now, so not amazing. I am going to give tips based on what I've seen Zergs do vs. me that hurt me hard/I felt were the 'right' decision... in other words, no guarantee that I'm 100% right ><; but hopefully some helpful notes here + Show Spoiler +
1) Try sending each new drone to a different mineral patch in the beginning, you have the apm and time for it ^^
2) You should be splitting your lings into 2 groups to better trap scouting probes, just running circles isn't going to accomplish anything (because you're pretty much banking on your opponent's lack of micro as opposed to your own ability to micro). The probe would have never seen your spire-first opening, for example. Protoss has to play reactionary most of the time after forge FE, and allowing him to have perfect intel is exactly what they need to react properly to your build!
3) As soon as your drone saw that there was no expansion at top right and made a hatch, you should have redirected your second overlord to the top left main. I understand that having the second overlord at your 3rd base is helpful (so you don't have to make a new one in the case of DTs) but what I see a lot of Zergs do is send one to the main, and in this case the overlord going to your nat is better suited for that. This is because it's the only way you can find out what Protoss is up to unless you got a drone scout in early. You might have seen that he went 2 gate citadel before starting stargate, for example.
4) On the subject of scouting, instead of chasing the probe with 6 lings, you should probably send 1 to his base to see if he's doing some sort of 2 gate all-in or something similar. If he was, you would be in a lot of trouble. You were effectively playing blind, which is never good. It also helps to know how many cannons P made in response to your fast pool, to know if you have a chance of busting with an all-in, or to know that he delayed his tech because he over-invested in cannons, etc. If you did this, you would see that he has the worst wall I've seen in a while, and therefore you could have easily ling or hydra busted if you started gearing your build towards that. It's cheesy, but if your opponent makes mistakes in a strategy game, take advantage!
5) At ~3:30, you have ~200 minerals, unused larva, and 15/18 supply. I'm not at all sure if this is wrong but it seems like it shouldn't happen >_>
6) Although your investment in sunks was a good response to the zealot count, your hydra den is VERY late, and no mutalisks? This makes no sense to me. Instead of using an evo at one of the bases, a hydra den would have been a better choice imo. Although, I don't know what build you are doing quite yet, but I feel like it'd be painully obvious to P what you are doing since you have no den and no muta...
6.1) Look at your sunken placement at your 3rd... You have exposed sunks, which is not efficient, because they will die, need to be replaced, etc. There is no loss in putting them behind your sim city. Because it forces a 1a Protoss to try and micro towards them, as opposed to taking out the forward sunks and thereby decreasing your overall sunk count. I think you should put all your defensive structures BEHIND your wall, and then use drones to wall. At your nat, you have 2 exposed when they could be hidden. I see that your first sunk there was placed poorly, probably due to larva/eggs. Remember the overlord+larva stop trick to handle that!
7) I just noticed this, you made a second gas but haven't mined it for a while. This is economically inefficient in 2 ways - wasted drone that is not mining, and no gas income when you need it.
8) 8 minutes in, your macro slipped VERY hard. Supply block and 1100 minerals incoming!
9) Instead of losing your lings, you needed to position them at every expansion Protoss has. You basically gave him a free expand because of lack of intel and lack of macro!!!!
10) 9:20, 2000 minerals?!?! Make some macro hatches, take the safe 4th, make units, do ANYTHING but bank! You have 200+ apm, should be easy or you ;D Ok you just made the 4th and a macro hatch next to it, but a bit late imo.
11) 9:30, you lost a bunch of lings for no reason ><; Those are the ones you needed spread over different bases and denying those bases! Keeping Toss on the defensive is key when you don't get a fast 4th base.
12) 10:25, idle evo, no gas mining at 3rd (gas is KEY), still 1600 mineral.
13) You are floating minerals for a LONG time.
14) 13:49, I'll be straight forward, this toss is bad. He has 1-1 and no +2 coming. This is easy grounds for a zerg rape. You just let him double expo which is... A deathwish. He has his 4th up same time as you. Zerg should be 1-2 bases ahead of Toss at all times!
15) 15:00 You just lost a large amount of lings for nothing... You should be sending overlords and scourge with all your armies!!
16) 15:19, I see you were trying to kill the 4th, but you just sent 12 units at a time, with intervals, to their doom. This is the same as throwing a game. You need to gather your troops outside the base and move them en masse at the same time. Zerg is the SWARM, don't forget that! You do not play a race that can send 12 units at a time and win.
17) 16:00, you busted down his cannons at the 4th, but lost an army and you sent 7+ overlords there, to die. This is an inefficient use of units! Same for the 4th. I see your strategy - alternating attacks on each expo. This is a good strategy. However, I don't feel like you adequately invested in either one of the attacks, so therefore you never actually did any serious damage. Apply the same principle, but use MORE units each time. That will be made easier with better macro.
18) Now Protoss has 70 supply advantage, sitting on equal bases, looking to take another, a sick ball, and you've wasted your army. Stopping replay at 19:00, this game has already been lost.
Summary:
1) Better scouting! This was your #1 issue in this game!
2) Better macro! I know this is relatively dumb advice, but you really dropped the ball on this one.
3) Spam less! You have the potential to be fast, but you end up playing like a slow player, simply because of your spam. Here is a BWRepInfo screen shot comparison between you and Effort's 23 minute game vs. Movie (unfair, I know, but look):
Notice how although your Valid% for the top actions is similar, there is a huge disparity in the overall % of "Hatch" action? Clearly, you are not making enough units. You have 90 more apm than your enemy, but only 2 more eapm. That means you are wasting 88 actions per minute, at least, doing nothing more than him! Of course, Protoss in general have lower apm and eapm, but that is not a reason to be sitting at 50+% redundancy in apm. Forget speed, think about efficiency. Note your "Hotkey" command versus usage; you have only 8.9% efficiency for your hotkeys. 90% of your use of hotkeys is spam. This is a TOTAL waste!!!
For additional reference, here is a BWRepInfo screenshot from a recent 19 minute PvP of mine: + Show Spoiler +
Notice how I have lower APM, but higher EAPM. This is largely due to my higher efficiency of hotkey usage - 20%. Not trying to brag, but this is what I mentioned in response to your earlier posts. I waste fewer actions and therefore get fatigued less, and also I end up doing more because I intentionally streamlined my play.
I hope this helps!
@Jealous
Man, I can never thank you enough. All this analysis really blew me away. You have no idea how helpful this is, I am going to keep reading this and ingrain it in my brain. Yeah there is no excuse for 2000 minerals...and I now see that I have to keep making units. You actually made me realize that even though I thought I was making units very well, I was not. I realize now that I have a tendency to wait until I have 3 larvae at each expo before I make stuff. Otherwise, I just look at my hatch and skip it. To be a good player, I need to use larvae at all times, even if it is just one. Thanks for the BWRepInfo, I didn't notice my problem until you pointed out my lack of making units.
Oh, and you caught me redhanded with my lack of scouting. Tbh, even when I do scout, I don't know what I am looking at and just play as if I was playing blind. I am blind. I need to see. Will study Protoss and Terran BOs more now.
Thanks so much Jealous.
edit:
christ what is Effort doing with his hotkeys that I am not? We both hit our hotkeys, but he is making them valid and I am not. Kinda confusing me. I want to increase my EAPM but I don't know how. Does hotkey mean the hotkeys for units or control groups? I use hotkeys in everything I do. I use all F location keys all the time, I hit all the hotkeys for making every unit, I use all ctrl groups constantly except for 8, 9, and 0. Instead of spamming I want to use my energy that I used for spamming into something productive. But what and how? How in the world is Effort at 199 EAPM?!
ALWAYS be using larva before you get to 3/hatch, unless you are waiting for a mutalisk or ultra timing or something similar.
F keys don't count in APM/EAPM. Units and control groups both apply to hotkey usage. So do buildings. When you use your hotkeys, you must be selecting them and either not issuing a command or not sending a new command different from the previous one, which is the definition of redundancy. Of course, sometimes selecting your units and not giving any consequent action is sometimes useful - some Protoss use it for checking when their cybernetics core is done in PvT/PvP, for example, or checking their gateway/Nexus, etc. I imagine Zergs can have a use for that too. But this program calculates it as a waste, so it's not 100% accurate. However, to answer your last question most directly, I assume that Effort is trying to click on every hatch and spawn every unit as soon as the larva pops out (except for timings like mutalisks), checking his army movement and location every second and altering it to be more appropriate to flank Protoss, burrowing and unburrowing lurkers to maintain a contain, sending drones to minerals before they reach the rally point, re-grouping control groups to include newly made units (1, hold shift, drag-select new units, ctrl 1, 1 a, 2, hold shift... etc.), so on and so forth. The amount of things he is constantly managing is incredibly high, much higher than amateur players who have issues using every larva and not having drones end up at their rally point, for example ^^;
No problem. Next time you want a rep analysis, I suggest making your own thread with your own analysis first, formatted like how I did it. I watch in window mode with a notepad file open, and type while watching at x1 or x2 speed. To get a good analysis, you need to do those things (make thread, analyze yourself) in order to get any feedback. A lot of very good Zergs often respond. Bakuryu is a poster that helps people out a lot. You should try it next time!
Although, often when I need to make a thread or a replay, I begin to analyze before making the post, and I see so many mistakes that I realize it's not worth it to make a thread if I can dissect it myself. Try that first haha xD
On March 15 2013 01:50 ppshchik wrote: How can I beat Peruvian Protosses as Terran?
Never rax FE, have at least 6 marines to help kill shuttles, build a proxy engineering bay after the first factory and float it into his main while building a comprehensive circle of turrets, academy before 60 supply if you see citadel, leave half-finished turrets or idle SCVs at various hidden expo locations. You are Terran, your race was engineered to withstand the cheesiest of cheeses. You simply need to embrace this aspect and stop cutting corners and you shall never fall.
Sincerely, A Protoss who sometimes gets in tune with his Peruviano loco side to maintain that 90% PvT winrate <3
Your advice didn't turn out well for me
1. I walled in with siege expand, but he blocked my depot wall with pylon
2. Built a ring of turrets, he couldn't DT drop but he just sacrificed his goons to kill my turrets JUST to DT drop lol.
3. Went turret bunker before expand
still lost to this (another) Peruvian toss
PS: Yeah I know I played really bad late game but your patience has a limit when you're facing Peruvian protosses.
On March 15 2013 01:50 ppshchik wrote: How can I beat Peruvian Protosses as Terran?
Never rax FE, have at least 6 marines to help kill shuttles, build a proxy engineering bay after the first factory and float it into his main while building a comprehensive circle of turrets, academy before 60 supply if you see citadel, leave half-finished turrets or idle SCVs at various hidden expo locations. You are Terran, your race was engineered to withstand the cheesiest of cheeses. You simply need to embrace this aspect and stop cutting corners and you shall never fall.
Sincerely, A Protoss who sometimes gets in tune with his Peruviano loco side to maintain that 90% PvT winrate <3
Your advice didn't turn out well for me
1. I walled in with siege expand, but he blocked my depot wall with pylon
2. Built a ring of turrets, he couldn't DT drop but he just sacrificed his goons to kill my turrets JUST to DT drop lol.
3. Went turret bunker before expand
still lost to this (another) Peruvian toss
PS: Yeah I know I played really bad late game but your patience has a limit when you're facing Peruvian protosses.
On March 15 2013 01:50 ppshchik wrote: How can I beat Peruvian Protosses as Terran?
Never rax FE, have at least 6 marines to help kill shuttles, build a proxy engineering bay after the first factory and float it into his main while building a comprehensive circle of turrets, academy before 60 supply if you see citadel, leave half-finished turrets or idle SCVs at various hidden expo locations. You are Terran, your race was engineered to withstand the cheesiest of cheeses. You simply need to embrace this aspect and stop cutting corners and you shall never fall.
Sincerely, A Protoss who sometimes gets in tune with his Peruviano loco side to maintain that 90% PvT winrate <3
Your advice didn't turn out well for me
1. I walled in with siege expand, but he blocked my depot wall with pylon
2. Built a ring of turrets, he couldn't DT drop but he just sacrificed his goons to kill my turrets JUST to DT drop lol.
3. Went turret bunker before expand
still lost to this (another) Peruvian toss
PS: Yeah I know I played really bad late game but your patience has a limit when you're facing Peruvian protosses.
Ok, I watched most of the replay (it bugged out at the 21 minute 29 second mark, and I couldn't see the rest of it), and here are problems I saw with your play:
* Your turrets were too close to the edge of the cliffs. You should put them further back to prevent them from being sniped. * You were floating large amounts of minerals and gas at several instances during the game. Early on, you were running off two factories, and had to make 4 more at the same time. You should start making them earlier. Later on your excess resource problem was due to the fact that you only had 6 factories, and only one of them had an add-on. You were basically producing all your tanks from a single factory for over 10 minutes. You eventually get two more add-ons, but that should have come way sooner, along with more factories. * Your passivity. From the 8 minute mark to the 14 minute mark, you had around 50 more supply than your opponent; any push with all of your units could probably have crushed him. You were trying to create ineffectual contains, which were hindered by the fact that you weren't actually containing him from expanding, and that you only kept a small amount of your troups there. * Your base layout: the supply depots were strewn all over the place. Put them neatly in a group. * Each time he broke your contain, there were only 1/3 to 1/4 of your forces containing him, so he could crush that force easily, at which point you pulled your different small groups of units from all over the map, and suicided them to him sequentially. If you want to contain him, keep most of your forces in front of his base. Even better, kill him with those massed forces. During basically all the game (as far as I saw), you had a stronger, or at least equal army. You just didn't keep it together. * You never teched to science vessels, which are needed when arbiters come out. * Please don't engage with the siege tanks in pom-pom mode.
Honestly, most of these errors wouldn't have mattered, if only you had been more aggressive with your army, and had kept it all together. Next time, bring your army mostly together, have confidence, and if you see that his army is weaker than yours, push out, and crush it along with his base.
Are there anyother steriotype I should know when playing anyone from diferents countries... ?? to know what kind of strategies the opponent might do during the game...
On March 28 2013 00:15 Release wrote: I'm looking for a VOD of Flash vs Food5 (MSL survivor 2011) but it doesn't seem to be on youtube. Anyone know where to find a copy of it?
most of the mbc content was deleted duo copyright stuff.
Apparently my game knowledge dropped from "severly lacking" to "non-exsistant".
Somebody take a look at this game and tell me what WinDy tried to do in this game with 1 fact into academy+armory (I don't think he saw the DTs and engy bay would be a better choice anyway...) into dying to a DT drop.
Can somebody explain what he was 'trying' to do? And btw this is the same windy that went 77-1 two season ago on iccup? I mean he is obviously really really good, but I still can't comprehend his long term plan.
I might have missed something though I watched it on my phone at it skips a couple of frames once in a while -.-
On March 28 2013 06:35 thezanursic wrote: Apparently my game knowledge dropped from "severly lacking" to "non-exsistant".
Somebody take a look at this game and tell me what WinDy tried to do in this game with 1 fact into academy+armory (I don't think he saw the DTs and engy bay would be a better choice anyway...) into dying to a DT drop.
Can somebody explain what he was 'trying' to do? And btw this is the same windy that went 77-1 two season ago on iccup? I mean he is obviously really really good, but I still can't comprehend his long term plan.
On March 27 2013 23:51 therockmanxx wrote: Are there anyother steriotype I should know when playing anyone from diferents countries... ?? to know what kind of strategies the opponent might do during the game...
[KR] - Their rank says D+, but they're really C+ [US] - If they are skilled, they are bm. If they aren't skilled, they are slightly less bm. [RU] - They will always go factory opening in TvZ [PL] - Probably very angry [CA] - The stereotype of polite Canadians is completely wrong. Canadians are bad-mannered. Canadians can be broken down into three groups:
French-Canadian: bm, do all-ins every game, arrogant Asian: Lives in Toronto, acts like a "gangsta", insanely skilled, has constant girlfriend drama White Canadians who aren't French: Super nerdtastic
[BG] - Bulgarians are mild-mannered and decently skilled. What a nice country. [DE] - Quiet, but usually skilled. They will bm you if you don't give them a rematch. [CL] - Better internet than Peru, but just as many Zerglings [SE] - The most awful, bad-mannered, horrible country. They bm if they lose, they bm if they win, they live in perpetual anger. [CN] - Horrible lag + cheese [HU] - If you're playing a zerg, it's probably a sziky smurf [GB] - They play Protoss and cast broodwar [MY] - Laggiest country in the whole world, omg
I just saw beast morph 3 guardians at his third in a ZvT to take out the tanks easily and prevent the push there. It was very effective, is that a standard thing or is it somewhat exclusive to beast? It's very clever as the terran can't easily push close to the guardians with marines because of lurkers, and can't irrad both lurkers and guardians, and the lurkers don't usually all die to tanks before guardians take out the tanks.
On March 28 2013 21:01 Birdie wrote: I just saw beast morph 3 guardians at his third in a ZvT to take out the tanks easily and prevent the push there. It was very effective, is that a standard thing or is it somewhat exclusive to beast? It's very clever as the terran can't easily push close to the guardians with marines because of lurkers, and can't irrad both lurkers and guardians, and the lurkers don't usually all die to tanks before guardians take out the tanks.
I haven't played/watched bw in a very long time, but from what basics I can remember, doesn't that delay defilers? Guardians can be taken care of with 1 or 2 wraiths most of the time and Terrans can use irradiate on lurkers.
On March 28 2013 21:01 Birdie wrote: I just saw beast morph 3 guardians at his third in a ZvT to take out the tanks easily and prevent the push there. It was very effective, is that a standard thing or is it somewhat exclusive to beast? It's very clever as the terran can't easily push close to the guardians with marines because of lurkers, and can't irrad both lurkers and guardians, and the lurkers don't usually all die to tanks before guardians take out the tanks.
I haven't played/watched bw in a very long time, but from what basics I can remember, doesn't that delay defilers? Guardians can be taken care of with 1 or 2 wraiths most of the time and Terrans can use irradiate on lurkers.
He had a couple defilers out by then too, unless you mean the greater spire morph delays it.
[MX]: Terrans who play and often seek TvT's [AU]: Laggy backwater yokels... C- C players that rely on the Chinese for their shitty jobs/nation wars wins. [Number]: Last second race changers
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/c7WaQWH.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kbFUrc9.png)
