• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:34
CEST 21:34
KST 04:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 235ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon445.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation0
StarCraft 2
General
Most successful SC2 players of Q2 2026 MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)
Tourneys
Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch 60% Keyboards Viable for Starcraft? Snow On New ASL S22 Map, Zerg Nerf BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Summer Games Done Quick 2026! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9744 users

8 rax = cheese? - Page 6

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 10 Next All
FortuneSyn
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1826 Posts
December 21 2009 23:14 GMT
#101
8 rax isnt cheese, it's a soft counter to 12hatch. Try going 8rax versus a 12pooling zerg. lolz.
n3m0
Profile Joined January 2007
Portugal247 Posts
December 21 2009 23:18 GMT
#102
if you make it a proxy 8 rax then it's cheese :p
Former WGT Clan League Admin - Former Portugal A team manager - Former member of MgZ) / iG. / LRM) - Starcraft Broodwar
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
December 21 2009 23:28 GMT
#103
I respectfully disagree. If there is a well-defined follow-up build order then I don't consider it cheese, and proxy 8 rax -> vulture -> wraith -> m/m drop is SOOOOO good in TvZ.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
love1another
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1844 Posts
December 21 2009 23:55 GMT
#104
[image loading]

:D
"I'm learning more and more that TL isn't the place to go for advice outside of anything you need in college. It's like you guys just make up your own fantasy world shit and post it as if you've done it." - Chill
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
December 22 2009 00:09 GMT
#105
I don't really care about calling it cheese or not. Everyone has their own definition of it. But seriously, there is nothing comparable in zerg build orders that is as gay as 8 rax into a fast vulture. You gotta pull your drones to defend and somehow get that sunken up in time and afford early den and lair because you have no clue of what the terran is doing and he easily dictates the game. Surely that is pretty damn gay for a build that just requires cutting on a couple scvs.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
December 22 2009 00:26 GMT
#106
On December 22 2009 09:09 Cloud wrote:
I don't really care about calling it cheese or not. Everyone has their own definition of it. But seriously, there is nothing comparable in zerg build orders that is as gay as 8 rax into a fast vulture. You gotta pull your drones to defend and somehow get that sunken up in time and afford early den and lair because you have no clue of what the terran is doing and he easily dictates the game. Surely that is pretty damn gay for a build that just requires cutting on a couple scvs.

Can't you scout with drone/overlord?
My strategy is to fork people.
NrG.Bamboo
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2756 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-22 02:16:29
December 22 2009 02:14 GMT
#107
On December 22 2009 07:35 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2009 14:16 Valentine wrote:
The way I see it, cheese is simply a tactic or build that depends on simple chance. Cheese != all-in. Cheese is simply using "chance" to either put you ahead or put you behind.

So 12 hatch in ZvZ is cheese? You might have something different in mind, but the definition you gave is retarded.

With my definition, yes, I consider it cheesy. I was actually thinking more of this today when I was bored. In the way I see things, any type of strategy or tactic that is used by you with my earlier definiton which is not being forced on you.

So play along, a Terran is pushing your third expansion (Protoss), and you think that if you all-in counter his natural, you might be able to turn the tide. I don't think this is cheesy due to the fact that the Terran was pretty much placed into the situation by the flow of the game.

Now this is coming from someone who loves to cheese, and tells his teammates to cheese him and all-in him more often in practice games. I hate people who cry about being cheesed (I used to be one of them), but now it's just annoying for me to read ;___; Just practice more against them and get better at defending/reading opponents :D

So does anyone else think my definitions are reasonable? o__o;;
I need to protect all your life you can enjoy the vibrant life of your battery
GW.Methos
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States249 Posts
December 22 2009 02:51 GMT
#108
how is 8rax cheese? everyone uses it.
i.pwn.n00bs
KingV
Profile Joined April 2009
United States97 Posts
December 22 2009 02:54 GMT
#109
It's just annoying for zergs to handle. Like early goon pressure in PvT, you just pull some workers off mining and hope you dont fuck up.
"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment"
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-22 02:58:57
December 22 2009 02:58 GMT
#110
On December 20 2009 09:33 sS.NuB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2009 16:12 Avidkeystamper wrote:
On December 19 2009 16:05 SkepTicAL wrote:
8 rax is a build order, not a cheese. Cheese is something that you can't recover from if it fails. 8 rax you can transition to mech or fe carrying on the game from there.

That's not a very good definition. It's hard to recover from anything if it fails.
I would consider cheese more something that would never work if your opponent knew it was coming.


Ok so if you intend to do a probe drop on a terrans SCV's and you don't lose the shuttle but you lose 2 probes 30 minutes in game its hard to recover from that?

Did you have an actual point or do you just love nitpicking and thinking you've proven someone else's point wrong?
I think it's obvious what I'm saying here. It's called common sense and inference. Use it.
Edit: seeing that you're banned, guess you didnt'.
Jaedong
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-22 04:02:53
December 22 2009 04:01 GMT
#111
On December 21 2009 11:42 ArvickHero wrote:
I say we stop using the word "cheese" and start using the phrase "strategic play" like the Koreans to describe any non-management type of strategy.

koreans have a word for cheese too.
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
avaTar[
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Mexico301 Posts
December 22 2009 04:35 GMT
#112
On December 19 2009 14:38 789 wrote:
I ...Funny thing is they yell at terrans for turtling, and then when they do an aggressive opening its cheese....
How else is terran supposed to punish the other races for 12 pool/12 nexus.


Completely agree on that mate, Z and P has a lot of cheese options and us terrans got only BBS and maybe proxy fac on their main or something. and still they complain.
w3jjjj
Profile Joined April 2007
United States760 Posts
December 22 2009 04:42 GMT
#113
No such thing as cheese, only strategies with different attack timings.

The "normal" 3 tank 1 vessel m&m push is just another attack timing, if you don't do damage you'll fall behind, not much different.
Chuck Norris can salvage his opponent's structures.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
December 22 2009 04:47 GMT
#114
Just opening with 8 Rax is obviously not cheese. It's pretty comparable to opening with 9 Pool IMO.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
13ThirtySeven
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
99 Posts
December 22 2009 06:48 GMT
#115
On December 19 2009 13:06 DJONES wrote:
2-3 marines, and 1-2 scvs are at his base before the spawning pool finishes.


Unless Z opens 9 pool.
checo
Profile Joined November 2008
Mexico1364 Posts
December 22 2009 07:15 GMT
#116
If zergs would stop tryng to 12 hatch all the time they wouldn't even mind 8rax.... greedy bastards
El amor no mueve al mundo, ni hace brillar el sol, pero el amor hace latir este corazon....
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
December 22 2009 07:22 GMT
#117
On December 22 2009 16:15 checo wrote:
If zergs would stop tryng to 12 hatch all the time they wouldn't even mind 8rax.... greedy bastards

If Terrans would stop 12 raxing all the time, they wouldn't even mind 4 pools.
/sarcasm off, 12 Hatch is necessary for zergs to stay on economic par with terrans.
Jaedong
ftb
Profile Joined October 2009
49 Posts
December 22 2009 09:51 GMT
#118
Well, 8rax bunkerrushing terran apparently consider overpool to be cheesy as a response.
Hillarious pissed off terran player:
[image loading]
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6183 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-22 12:13:43
December 22 2009 12:12 GMT
#119
On December 22 2009 13:35 avaTar[ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2009 14:38 789 wrote:
I ...Funny thing is they yell at terrans for turtling, and then when they do an aggressive opening its cheese....
How else is terran supposed to punish the other races for 12 pool/12 nexus.


Completely agree on that mate, Z and P has a lot of cheese options and us terrans got only BBS and maybe proxy fac on their main or something. and still they complain.

ehh terrans have as many "cheeses", it's just that most terrans only knows how to go 1rax cc in TvZ / 1fac cc in TvP->turtle, and then complain if other players wants to be agressive and not to die to boredom.
Weryeery
Profile Joined June 2008
288 Posts
December 22 2009 12:18 GMT
#120
On December 22 2009 13:35 avaTar[ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2009 14:38 789 wrote:
I ...Funny thing is they yell at terrans for turtling, and then when they do an aggressive opening its cheese....
How else is terran supposed to punish the other races for 12 pool/12 nexus.


Completely agree on that mate, Z and P has a lot of cheese options and us terrans got only BBS and maybe proxy fac on their main or something. and still they complain.


Z dont have cheese option, they have allin builds. that means if the aggression fail its over you can leave.

Whats magical with T and P is they have builds that are as deadly than Z allin but even if it miserably fail you can still recover.
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 26m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ZombieGrub52
BRAT_OK 41
MindelVK 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 934
ggaemo 85
soO 48
Sharp 41
Free 33
sSak 33
910 28
Sexy 27
Rock 23
NaDa 21
Counter-Strike
fl0m1769
pashabiceps1380
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King116
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu351
Other Games
Grubby2956
RotterdaM672
Beastyqt627
tarik_tv3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick33717
BasetradeTV175
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 168
• StrangeGG 57
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie849
• Shiphtur388
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 26m
Replay Cast
4h 26m
RSL Revival
13h 26m
Serral vs Bunny
ByuN vs GgMaChine
CranKy Ducklings
14h 26m
Afreeca Starleague
14h 26m
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
SC Evo League
16h 26m
ByuN vs Classic
Cure vs Solar
IPSL
20h 26m
Dragon vs Ret
Patches Events
20h 26m
RSL Revival
1d 13h
Solar vs Rogue
Maru vs NightMare
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 14h
[ Show More ]
IPSL
1d 20h
Bonyth vs Hawk
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Heroes Pulsing #3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.