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On July 31 2017 14:51 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 09:44 TT1 wrote:
cb and fs better be included in every season I'd rather force people to learn new maps. FS and CB are overplayed. I'll be soft vetoing FS, CB and Python. Can't stand them. Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 14:03 iamho wrote:
Maps seem alright to me, just wish there were more options, maybe not as many as iccup but at least 10 would be nice. Technically there's only 5-6 "ladder maps" each week on iCCUP due to the bonus MOTW system. ^^
no just no. There are many maps that are too imbalanced in favor of other race. Fs/cb is a good starting point for many newcomers and good players also want to play on fs/cb to display their skills, practice efficiently, and have their best game. I don't think you even play bw for saying that
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lol fuck I hope that's not the map pool for release, I don't like any of them. Nostalgia might be cool but I fear it's gonna be super imbalanced.
I think one of FS/CB would be enough, and with Arcadia that makes for three super boring macro maps.. meh.
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nostalgia lol, how about they choose a map with no gas at all and they call it "official ladder map" :genius:
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On July 31 2017 15:32 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 14:51 Qikz wrote:On July 31 2017 09:44 TT1 wrote:
cb and fs better be included in every season I'd rather force people to learn new maps. FS and CB are overplayed. I'll be soft vetoing FS, CB and Python. Can't stand them. On July 31 2017 14:03 iamho wrote:
Maps seem alright to me, just wish there were more options, maybe not as many as iccup but at least 10 would be nice. Technically there's only 5-6 "ladder maps" each week on iCCUP due to the bonus MOTW system. ^^ no just no. There are many maps that are too imbalanced in favor of other race. Fs/cb is a good starting point for many newcomers and good players also want to play on fs/cb to display their skills, practice efficiently, and have their best game. I don't think you even play bw for saying that
Ask pretty much any other forum veterans and theyll tell you I play and I play a lot. Ive been playing since 2009. I just prefer to play interesting maps
As long as the winrate isnt over 60% then its fine. FS in the modern meta isnt even that balanced anymore.
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On July 31 2017 15:42 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 15:32 Shinokuki wrote:On July 31 2017 14:51 Qikz wrote:On July 31 2017 09:44 TT1 wrote:
cb and fs better be included in every season I'd rather force people to learn new maps. FS and CB are overplayed. I'll be soft vetoing FS, CB and Python. Can't stand them. On July 31 2017 14:03 iamho wrote:
Maps seem alright to me, just wish there were more options, maybe not as many as iccup but at least 10 would be nice. Technically there's only 5-6 "ladder maps" each week on iCCUP due to the bonus MOTW system. ^^ no just no. There are many maps that are too imbalanced in favor of other race. Fs/cb is a good starting point for many newcomers and good players also want to play on fs/cb to display their skills, practice efficiently, and have their best game. I don't think you even play bw for saying that Ask pretty much any other forum veterans and theyll tell you I play and I play a lot. Ive been playing since 2009. I just prefer to play interesting maps As long as the winrate isnt over 60% then its fine. FS in the modern meta isnt even that balanced anymore.
want me to post stats for fs the past three months? its over 1000 games of sponsored matchups recorded. seems its a pretty balanced considering not one race goes over 53% overall winrate
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is matchmaking turnrate 8 or 16 ?
i rly start to dislike 8 since there is 16
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On July 31 2017 15:54 Shinokuki wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 15:42 Qikz wrote:On July 31 2017 15:32 Shinokuki wrote:On July 31 2017 14:51 Qikz wrote:On July 31 2017 09:44 TT1 wrote:
cb and fs better be included in every season I'd rather force people to learn new maps. FS and CB are overplayed. I'll be soft vetoing FS, CB and Python. Can't stand them. On July 31 2017 14:03 iamho wrote:
Maps seem alright to me, just wish there were more options, maybe not as many as iccup but at least 10 would be nice. Technically there's only 5-6 "ladder maps" each week on iCCUP due to the bonus MOTW system. ^^ no just no. There are many maps that are too imbalanced in favor of other race. Fs/cb is a good starting point for many newcomers and good players also want to play on fs/cb to display their skills, practice efficiently, and have their best game. I don't think you even play bw for saying that Ask pretty much any other forum veterans and theyll tell you I play and I play a lot. Ive been playing since 2009. I just prefer to play interesting maps As long as the winrate isnt over 60% then its fine. FS in the modern meta isnt even that balanced anymore. want me to post stats for fs the past three months? its over 1000 games of sponsored matchups recorded. seems its a pretty balanced considering not one race goes over 53% overall winrate
I think it would be more sensible to quote the expected win percentage from players with equal ELO, considering nobody here would think a perfect balance is someone like GGaeMo having a 50% win rate versus Flash.
All three match-ups played on Circuit Breaker has an expected win rate between players of equal ELO over 46.1% for the losing race, which is the expected win rate for protoss players versus zerg players of equal ELO, and Circuit Breaker is currently facing heavy scrutiny and criticism from various fans due to the trouble protoss players are facing versus zerg players at the moment. The map is not a protoss-friendly map at all.
Zerg players have an expected win rate of 44.1% versus protoss players of equal ELO on Fighting Spirit, which is a worse value than what is found for any match-up on Circuit Breaker.
Fighting Spirit is a well made map, but there's a reason why zerg players tend to avoid it if they can.
With that being said, just because Fighting Spirit is not the epitome of perfect balance doesn't mean any poorly designed map should be taking its place just for the novelty factor, in my opinion. 60% is a horrible cut-off point for what is considered to be a reasonable map for all contenders.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On July 31 2017 16:27 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 15:54 Shinokuki wrote:On July 31 2017 15:42 Qikz wrote:On July 31 2017 15:32 Shinokuki wrote:On July 31 2017 14:51 Qikz wrote:On July 31 2017 09:44 TT1 wrote:
cb and fs better be included in every season I'd rather force people to learn new maps. FS and CB are overplayed. I'll be soft vetoing FS, CB and Python. Can't stand them. On July 31 2017 14:03 iamho wrote:
Maps seem alright to me, just wish there were more options, maybe not as many as iccup but at least 10 would be nice. Technically there's only 5-6 "ladder maps" each week on iCCUP due to the bonus MOTW system. ^^ no just no. There are many maps that are too imbalanced in favor of other race. Fs/cb is a good starting point for many newcomers and good players also want to play on fs/cb to display their skills, practice efficiently, and have their best game. I don't think you even play bw for saying that Ask pretty much any other forum veterans and theyll tell you I play and I play a lot. Ive been playing since 2009. I just prefer to play interesting maps As long as the winrate isnt over 60% then its fine. FS in the modern meta isnt even that balanced anymore. want me to post stats for fs the past three months? its over 1000 games of sponsored matchups recorded. seems its a pretty balanced considering not one race goes over 53% overall winrate I think it would be more sensible to quote the expected win percentage from players with equal ELO, considering nobody here would think a perfect balance is someone like GGaeMo having a 50% win rate versus Flash. All three match-ups played on Circuit Breaker has an expected win rate between players of equal ELO over 46.1% for the losing race, which is the expected win rate for protoss players versus zerg players of equal ELO, and Circuit Breaker is currently facing heavy scrutiny and criticism from various fans due to the trouble protoss players are facing versus zerg players at the moment. The map is not a protoss-friendly map at all. Zerg players have an expected win rate of 44.1% versus protoss players of equal ELO on Fighting Spirit, which is a worse value than what is found for any match-up on Circuit Breaker. Fighting Spirit is a well made map, but there's a reason why zerg players tend to avoid it if they can. With that being said, just because Fighting Spirit is not the epitome of perfect balance doesn't mean any poorly designed map should be taking its place just for the novelty factor, in my opinion. 60% is a horrible cut-off point for what is considered to be a reasonable map for all contenders.
The way I view it is if there's a 60% cutoff map for each of the three races and there's a veto system then I honestly don't think there's a problem. The important thing for me is people play maps other than Fighting Spirit and Python. iCCUP was hell if you couldn't host purely on the basis people would sit on FS all day. If you want a well rounded balanced map then stick CB in, but we don't necessarily need 3 maps that are the epitome of standard.
It's the reason why I got bored of laddering in SC2, every map was either Daybreak or looked like Daybreak. There should be maps that test the players (which is why I'm glad Outsider is in) to force players to learn new strategies and to learn to play different types of maps. I'd personally replace FS with something like Jade and have something like Match Point or Benzene in there.
What has always made Broodwar so great for me is that there's so many wonderfully unbalanced maps that appeared for a while for Proleague and then left the pool. They made the pro players learn different maps and learning them myself made the game a lot more enjoyable. I want other people to learn that even the more unbalanced maps can be really fun. As long as there's a veto system I think that any map should be allowed in.
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Nostalgia in map pool, lmao, this is definitely the Blizzard touch.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On July 31 2017 16:47 Glioburd wrote:
Nostalgia in map pool, lmao, this is definitely the Blizzard touch.
It's to cater for the old school crowd. Not everyone who will be coming back for Remastered will have played the game since what is arguably the golden age of Broodwar 2003-2008. Many people played back then, then quit. They're trying to appeal to everyone with this first ladder season I guess. ^^
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On July 31 2017 09:24 outscar wrote:
So far on Korean server they were:
(3) Outsider
Me like.
(4) Arcadia 2
(4) Circuit Breakers
(4) Fighting Spirit
(4) Nostalgia
(4) Python
And five standard four player macro maps? Okay, Nostalgia has the gasless nat but variety still looks different...
They should put in at least one completely new map for the new era, I think.
What I wonder:
Have they edited the maps or are they just the normal old maps?
I am only asking because from the VODs I've seen reverse ramps on jungle maps seem to blend together much better than before and the edges don't seem to match the bridge edges they are usually made of in appearance. So either they added actual new assets (native inverted ramps and the like) or the rendering engine does some kind of automatic smoothing out ofg tile edges now. Either way, will be very interesting when ScmDraft starts supporting HD graphics!
On July 31 2017 15:32 JungleTerrain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2017 14:56 SiaBBo wrote:On July 31 2017 14:03 JungleTerrain wrote:
Be aware that on maps like Nostalgia, where there is a gas issue (Gas at the bottom of the Starting Location), you will need 4 workers instead of 3 to mine optimally. They actually didn't patch the gas issue in remastered? Hi SiaBBo, long time no see  No. We actually know more about the gas issue and it is a result of different gas retrieving buildings' collision boxes as well as the town hall's and how the workers interact with them on top of the pathfinding AI. These can vary map to map because each map has a different pathfinding region map layout. So to patch it out they would have to change collision boxes, which would change things in the game such as Troy gates and walling with gas buildings.
Most importantly: It would require to heavily alter, if not completely redesign, the pathfinding engine. That's the holy grail that no one's going to touch. Well, maybe they could work out an exception of the get-units-off-unwalkable-terrain subroutine to prevent stuck stack bugs (or maybe they have already done that) – but then we no now what causes it and it is usually trivial to fix it through map editing, so even that is not needed...
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50600 Posts
should have added matchpoint a 2 player map, even over bluestorm and destination
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I think keeping Fighting Spirit in the map pool permanently is a good idea as TT1 stated, for many reasons. It is a generic map but you can still play different styles, and it is a good map for beginners to learn BW, it is a good standard / default map to play on, also remove Nostalgia and add Luna =P
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Python and Arcadia are Best maps from the pool.
Arcadia = Draco
Python = my best 5 years with sc  (2010 - 2014)
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On July 31 2017 19:13 GGzerG wrote:
I think keeping Fighting Spirit in the map pool permanently is a good idea as TT1 stated, for many reasons. It is a generic map but you can still play different styles, and it is a good map for beginners to learn BW, it is a good standard / default map to play on, also remove Nostalgia and add Luna =P
dont forget CB. I dont want toss and terrans having easy way vs zerg on fs
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Nostalgia is such an outdated and flawed map. it should be replaced with Tau Cross or Longinus.
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Hmm... It's much clearer even with reverse Space ramps that they did something with it:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zAKE63B.png)
I really hope this means they actually managed to implement some kind of auto-blending and not just declaring all the age-old and often mechanically and aesthetically substandard ramps de-facto standard by adding them as new look-alike doodads....
EDIT: However, just from the VOD it seems clear that these still have plenty of terrain level bugs on them (Flash's scouting SCV went blind for a short moment), so they are most likely the original ramps.
Any chance any one could playtest some of my maps and send me some screenshots? I am really curious how things look in the new graphics.
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Doesn't seem like they did anything to the maps, some of them are still named "ICCup |" and so forth.
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So what is that? some kind of really good dynamic texture generation?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TsD3ubb.gif)
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On July 31 2017 19:51 Freakling wrote:So what is that? some kind of really good dynamic texture generation?
They've already announced that they've added north facing ramps to the game, nothing fancy going on here. An overdue, but nevertheless very welcome addition.
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EPT
