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On May 03 2012 11:38 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:43 Taku wrote:On May 03 2012 10:38 Ribbon wrote:On May 03 2012 10:21 Kim_Hyun_Han wrote:Wonderful @Ribbon it is wonderful that you are a Star2 guy, here, check this link, it is a place for people like you and hey, dont tell anyone but i've read somewhere that you got a victory in korea http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=19 Bad as the SC2 community and their ESPORTS fervor can be, at least they haven't spent the past three years bitching, moaning, pissing, whining, raging, and praying for BW to fail so they have an excuse to feel even more persecuted and superior. At least I've actually supported the scene, and continue to do so with tournaments. What the fuck have you, or most of the people in this thread, ever done for BW? Nothing. So you don't get to feel superior just because you still have your BW purity ring. You're useless, worthless, and no benefit at all to the scene. Well I guess we can all be useless, worthless, and of no benefit to dota2 now then. No loss for you too~ Also that's a perfect example of posting style as I mentioned, notice the harsh personal attacks and lack of actual argument, with a touch of whining. Well, that's just my perception at least, you don't see that as much over here eh? Are you serious? All the BW forum is now is whining and trolling. It's pure tribalism, and no one even cares about the games anymore, just about proving they're better than the other guy.
This is simply not true. I don't know why you continue to make statements like these which are blatantly false.
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On May 03 2012 10:48 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:38 Ribbon wrote:On May 03 2012 10:21 Kim_Hyun_Han wrote:Wonderful @Ribbon it is wonderful that you are a Star2 guy, here, check this link, it is a place for people like you and hey, dont tell anyone but i've read somewhere that you got a victory in korea http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=19 Bad as the SC2 community and their ESPORTS fervor can be, at least they haven't spent the past three years bitching, moaning, pissing, whining, raging, and praying for BW to fail so they have an excuse to feel even more persecuted and superior. At least I've actually supported the scene, and continue to do so with tournaments. What the fuck have you, or most of the people in this thread, ever done for BW? Nothing. So you don't get to feel superior just because you still have your BW purity ring. You're useless, worthless, and no benefit at all to the scene. I don't know about everyone else but I still play the game every now and then. What more do you want? I'm sad the scene is dead and getting replaced by an inferior game but I don't need a scene. I don't care about sharing BW with anyone because I'm perfectly happy with the game, if I lose iccup then so be it I will move on with life. Everyone contributes and volunteers for love of the game and community. I don't think someone like Kiett does things for e-peen, hopefully. If the scene dies I don't see whats wrong with things fizzling out. The differences is that you want something more and lashing out at people who just accepted the death of BW. Death isn't strictly a bad thing. The manner in which it is dying is another issue, this OSL is going to be fkn terrible.
Yes, I accept that the slow decline and death are inevitable and there is no point feeling sad for thing that cannot be changed, but still this wasn't the way I imagined it would all end. Not like this.
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I feel for you bw fellas, I can think of an almost accurate comparison if anyone knows of the competitive super smash bros scene. Smash Melee would be BW in this case, the more complete competitive game that is exciting to watch, has mechanics that need to be mastered and has an amazing amount of strategic depth to it. Smash bros Brawl would be SC2, in that it is caters to a larger base with its simplified mechanic approach and despite its flashy graphics isn't all that fun to watch.
Of course, the main reason that one is preferred played over the other is that it is newer, simple as that. And while I know it isn't an entirely accurate comparison because brawl was designed to be non-competitive; but blizzard wanting to make a sc2 balanced and competitive game isn't the same as actually doing so.
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In a silly attempt to get back on to the topic of the OP
I will be playing
![[image loading]](http://www.g4g.it/g4g/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/wesnoth_14_01.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.d.com.com/i/dl/media/dlimage/90/70/8/90708_large.jpeg)
and
![[image loading]](http://misc.team-aaa.com/perso_ikse/bpeluche.jpg)
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BALDUR'S GATE ENHANCED EDITION!!!!
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I will play SC as long as iccup stays alive and even then, we have lan)
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i'll keep following and playing bw as long as there are still people playing it.
well, dont forget in the foreign section there are also some chinese players.
though they are somewhat isolated from us, the chinese bw community is still quite big.(of cause cant compare with 3~4yrs ago)
the situation there is quite similar to that of s.kor, people prefer bw>sc2.
so we are not alone, and the people watching bw isnt that few.
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I'll happily move on to sc2 after 10 or so years of bw. I feel that spectating both games is amazing for the same reasons and it's a remarkably well done sequel. I'm a little saddened whenever I try to catch some games on iccup that there are so few players though, I wish bw people would spend a little more time on iccup and a little less time worrying about bw "dying".
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On May 03 2012 11:38 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 10:43 Taku wrote:On May 03 2012 10:38 Ribbon wrote:On May 03 2012 10:21 Kim_Hyun_Han wrote:Wonderful @Ribbon it is wonderful that you are a Star2 guy, here, check this link, it is a place for people like you and hey, dont tell anyone but i've read somewhere that you got a victory in korea http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=19 Bad as the SC2 community and their ESPORTS fervor can be, at least they haven't spent the past three years bitching, moaning, pissing, whining, raging, and praying for BW to fail so they have an excuse to feel even more persecuted and superior. At least I've actually supported the scene, and continue to do so with tournaments. What the fuck have you, or most of the people in this thread, ever done for BW? Nothing. So you don't get to feel superior just because you still have your BW purity ring. You're useless, worthless, and no benefit at all to the scene. Well I guess we can all be useless, worthless, and of no benefit to dota2 now then. No loss for you too~ Also that's a perfect example of posting style as I mentioned, notice the harsh personal attacks and lack of actual argument, with a touch of whining. Well, that's just my perception at least, you don't see that as much over here eh? Are you serious? All the BW forum is now is whining and trolling. It's pure tribalism, and no one even cares about the games anymore, just about proving they're better than the other guy.
I think it'd be less whiny if people didn't mention SC2. If people want to be excited for it, there's a forum for it. This is just not one of those forums. This thread is basically us saying "well fuck, my favorite childhood game is losing out to something that we feel is inferior."
Also, I only troll when people are being retarded and say ignorant things.
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On May 03 2012 09:46 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 03:20 Djabanete wrote:On May 02 2012 16:38 Ribbon wrote:On May 02 2012 15:57 Sprouter wrote:some of you guys can kick and scream all you like, if this is what it takes to keep the best players playing starcraft (2), then so be it. i'm really surprised there are so many people (who claim to be) leaving when there are still many excellent players. if a game switch killed your passion to cheer for  Flash or  Jaedong, good riddens to you. At the end of the day, no one actually liked Flash, the human being. Not in the same way SC2 fans like, say, MarineKing or Naniwa. They liked him because he was really good at BW. Full stop. You couldn't be more wrong. I'm actually baffled at how someone who seems to care about BW (organizing/sponsoring tournaments) could be so oblivious. BW didn't "fail" because fans didn't care about the players enough. And I didn't say it did. I said BW fans won't follow Flash outside of BW because they don't care of Flash outside of BW.
Like I said... you're completely wrong. Plenty of fans will/would watch Flash play SC2, including myself. I don't get what's so hard about this.
On May 03 2012 10:38 Ribbon wrote:
At least I've actually supported the scene, and continue to do so with tournaments. What the fuck have you, or most of the people in this thread, ever done for BW? Nothing. So you don't get to feel superior just because you still have your BW purity ring. You're useless, worthless, and no benefit at all to the scene.
How can you complain about trolling in the BW forum and then post like this? Where does this holier-than-thou attitude come from? I understand you were replying to a cheat-shot post, but you need to take a deep breath and not write things like the part I bolded.
I haven't sponsored any tournaments lately, but I've been an enthusiastic and constructive member of the community for 4-5 years. I've live reported tournaments. I've PM'd people spoiler-free VODs because I felt like being nice. I've introduced a dozen friends to the game. I've stayed awake till 6AM or woken up at 4AM to watch matches live. (And heck, I even tried to encourage you when you were freaking out about the Ribbon Classic --- and once offered to talk shop with you about tournament formats --- though I don't expect you to remember.)
I applaud you for running tournaments. But when you act like anyone who hasn't done that is a second-class fan, you just make yourself look bad. (Not to mention the BW forums that you're so keen to clean up.)
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Man I was so happy that quake is still alive when I was searching for quake grand finals on youtube only to find out that IEM drop quake live because sponsor's in a way feel it's no attracting the right viewers . I feel for you quake fans because broodwar is going through the same transition . It's kind of suck when old time favourites like quake get's trash over some other games that have more viewers .
Source
http://www.derquaker.com/derquaker-interview-carmac/
I like what carmac has to say about e-sports though
Q : I can understand that and I want to come to an end. But one last question came out of our IRC Channel #bw.clan and the question is: Where do you see e-sports in 30 years? Is it the same thing as it is now? Or is it more and more shifting towards casual games like LoL. In the end the games, where you need to have a certain fps/duel skillset, drop out because it is to difficult to learn them?
A : “Games are only as casual as the people that play make them. Please remember that QW players considered all games after QW newbie friendly, for example. Q3 players considered CS newbie friendly, and so on. BroodWar players, I imagine, would consider SC2 newbie friendly as well, but SC2 is the clear number one game today. Games are only as hardcore as people want to make them. Having said that, I have absolutely no idea where e-sports will be in 30 years. I would imagine a certain game hits the mainstream and gets accepted forever, like chess, bridge and a few other games have been. What kind of game? I have no idea, but that makes things interesting.“
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On May 03 2012 12:12 seRapH wrote:It's not that simple though. Not a lot of "old timers" (a lot of us came fewer than 3 years ago btw) can even begin to imagine moving into sc2 the way they loved broodwar. 1) SC2 is a good game. Possibly even a great game. But it just doesn't compare to broodwar in our eyes, and from the direction it's going it never will. 2) We were ok with that. We were satisfied enjoying what we still called Starcraft. When someone said starcraft, they meant broodwar. But that all changed when blizzard actively tried to shut it down. They attacked iccup and they attacked kespa, the two pillars of starcraft broodwar. 3) We were not ok with that. What started out as mild disappointment escalated into bitter hatred. This inferior product was being pushed to replace that which we loved. By its own creator, no less. We turned to our former enemy, KeSPA, to be the champion that would save the broodwar proscene. We put aside its outrageous rulings and technical failures to stand united against a common enemy. 4) This period of time saw the greatest animosity between fans of the two starcrafts. Broodwar fans were scared, we were vulnerable but determined. Countless forum-goers vowed never to play starcraft 2 if it meant the murder of broodwar. But deep inside we were all uncertain of our future. The extremists of Wings of Liberty, however, either held no mercy or wallowed in ignorance in this subject, openly rejoicing in the assassination of the veterans' idol. On our homeground, no less. The extremists would cross the wall built to keep the peace, for the sole purpose of desecrating our gods.
5) What other reaction could anyone have expected? The more fanatical of us ( fanatacists, if you may) saw no option other than to return fire, making out their intended successor's weaknesses to be much bigger than they were. A war erupted, and the peacekeepers struggled to disway violence. Even the more just veterans' view of SC2 became cynical.6) Eventually, the war between the fans subsided along with the courtroom battles between KeSPA and ActiBlizz. Broodwar had bought itself a few more years, leading to cheers in the BW camp, and a couple belligerent grunts from the SC2 camp. 7) But the animosity never disappeared. As evident in this thread alone it's still going strong. Neither side has truly forgiven each other, and peace might never be achieved. We may still hope, but that hope is dimming, together with the star that is broodwar.
That whole group-think mentality in parts 4 and 5 is the problem. You can't say that SC2 attacked BW first, and BW is only responding. SC2 and BW haven't and never will do anything. People get on the forums and make posts, not communities.
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Is Starcraft II already out or still beta?
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On May 04 2012 01:52 DracoVolantus wrote:
Is Starcraft II already out or still beta?
Best post ever.
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SC2 is not worth it.
It's pretty and all but doesn't hold a candle to BW. I jumped on the SC2 bandwagon when beta came out and it wasn't too long before I realized how utterly lacking it is compared to BW. I stayed around for patch after patch thinking "this'll be the one that makes it great" and it just hasn't happened.
Honestly, the biggest disappointment is Terran.
I loved Terran in BW. It was such a great race to play. I feel bad for all the Terran BW fans moving to SC2 and how heartbroken they'll be to know that you play EVERY match up the same way.
BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO
You can get into masters making marines, marauders, and medivacs. That's it - and many games medivacs will be optional.
Utterly heartbreaking.
To go from the dynamism of the Terran bio, bio/mech, mech, positional play of BW to SC2's marine/marauder faceroll style is just sad. It was - and still is - the biggest let-down of SC2 for me, a former Terran player. I imagine it will be for many of you as well.
EDIT: Spelling error.
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On May 04 2012 02:00 Mjolnir wrote:
SC2 is not worth it.
It's pretty and all but doesn't hold a candle to BW. I jumped on the SC2 bandwagon when beta came out and it wasn't too long before I realized how utterly lacking it is compared to BW. I stayed around for patch after patch thinking "this'll be the one that makes it great" and it just hasn't happened.
Honestly, the biggest disappointment is Terran.
I loved Terran in BW. It was such a great race to play. I feel bad for all the Terran BW fans moving to SC2 and how heartbroken they'll be to know that you play EVERY match up the same way.
BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO BIO
You can get into masters making marines, marauders, and medivacs. That's it - and many games medivacs will be optional.
Utterly heartbreaking.
To go from they dynamism of the Terran bio, bio/mech, mech, positional play of BW to SC2's marine/marauder faceroll style is just sad. It was - and still is - the biggest let-down of SC2 for me, a former Terran player. I imagine it will be for many of you as well.
I couldn't have said better with my own words. This is why I came back to BW and never looked back. And about the post BW-plans. Well, I'll keep playing on ICCup and I'll probably play Diablo 3 too. I can't say it'll be the same without the Korean Broodwar scene, but I sure won't transition to SC2 because of that.
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On May 03 2012 18:07 lorkac wrote:In a silly attempt to get back on to the topic of the OP I will be playing + Show Spoiler +and
Battle for Wesnoth? Wow it has been a while. I didn't realise people are still playing it 
And seriously just ignore Ribbon. At first i thought hes a fan of both games. As i kept reading his post, i slowly realised hes full SC2, with a little of BW knowledge that helps make his post look more credible. Imo, ignore him like you would any other SC2 rabid fans.
(He acts that way, im aware he has histories). Edit: typos
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On May 04 2012 01:46 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:12 seRapH wrote:It's not that simple though. Not a lot of "old timers" (a lot of us came fewer than 3 years ago btw) can even begin to imagine moving into sc2 the way they loved broodwar. 1) SC2 is a good game. Possibly even a great game. But it just doesn't compare to broodwar in our eyes, and from the direction it's going it never will. 2) We were ok with that. We were satisfied enjoying what we still called Starcraft. When someone said starcraft, they meant broodwar. But that all changed when blizzard actively tried to shut it down. They attacked iccup and they attacked kespa, the two pillars of starcraft broodwar. 3) We were not ok with that. What started out as mild disappointment escalated into bitter hatred. This inferior product was being pushed to replace that which we loved. By its own creator, no less. We turned to our former enemy, KeSPA, to be the champion that would save the broodwar proscene. We put aside its outrageous rulings and technical failures to stand united against a common enemy. 4) This period of time saw the greatest animosity between fans of the two starcrafts. Broodwar fans were scared, we were vulnerable but determined. Countless forum-goers vowed never to play starcraft 2 if it meant the murder of broodwar. But deep inside we were all uncertain of our future. The extremists of Wings of Liberty, however, either held no mercy or wallowed in ignorance in this subject, openly rejoicing in the assassination of the veterans' idol. On our homeground, no less. The extremists would cross the wall built to keep the peace, for the sole purpose of desecrating our gods.
5) What other reaction could anyone have expected? The more fanatical of us (fanatacists, if you may) saw no option other than to return fire, making out their intended successor's weaknesses to be much bigger than they were. A war erupted, and the peacekeepers struggled to disway violence. Even the more just veterans' view of SC2 became cynical.6) Eventually, the war between the fans subsided along with the courtroom battles between KeSPA and ActiBlizz. Broodwar had bought itself a few more years, leading to cheers in the BW camp, and a couple belligerent grunts from the SC2 camp. 7) But the animosity never disappeared. As evident in this thread alone it's still going strong. Neither side has truly forgiven each other, and peace might never be achieved. We may still hope, but that hope is dimming, together with the star that is broodwar. That whole group-think mentality in parts 4 and 5 is the problem. You can't say that SC2 attacked BW first, and BW is only responding. SC2 and BW haven't and never will do anything. People get on the forums and make posts, not communities.
You're absolutely right. It very well may be possible that that someone else started it. But those of us who never ventured into the SC2 forums wouldn't know that. How could we?
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On May 04 2012 02:25 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 01:46 Vul wrote:On May 03 2012 12:12 seRapH wrote:It's not that simple though. Not a lot of "old timers" (a lot of us came fewer than 3 years ago btw) can even begin to imagine moving into sc2 the way they loved broodwar. 1) SC2 is a good game. Possibly even a great game. But it just doesn't compare to broodwar in our eyes, and from the direction it's going it never will. 2) We were ok with that. We were satisfied enjoying what we still called Starcraft. When someone said starcraft, they meant broodwar. But that all changed when blizzard actively tried to shut it down. They attacked iccup and they attacked kespa, the two pillars of starcraft broodwar. 3) We were not ok with that. What started out as mild disappointment escalated into bitter hatred. This inferior product was being pushed to replace that which we loved. By its own creator, no less. We turned to our former enemy, KeSPA, to be the champion that would save the broodwar proscene. We put aside its outrageous rulings and technical failures to stand united against a common enemy. 4) This period of time saw the greatest animosity between fans of the two starcrafts. Broodwar fans were scared, we were vulnerable but determined. Countless forum-goers vowed never to play starcraft 2 if it meant the murder of broodwar. But deep inside we were all uncertain of our future. The extremists of Wings of Liberty, however, either held no mercy or wallowed in ignorance in this subject, openly rejoicing in the assassination of the veterans' idol. On our homeground, no less. The extremists would cross the wall built to keep the peace, for the sole purpose of desecrating our gods.
5) What other reaction could anyone have expected? The more fanatical of us (fanatacists, if you may) saw no option other than to return fire, making out their intended successor's weaknesses to be much bigger than they were. A war erupted, and the peacekeepers struggled to disway violence. Even the more just veterans' view of SC2 became cynical.6) Eventually, the war between the fans subsided along with the courtroom battles between KeSPA and ActiBlizz. Broodwar had bought itself a few more years, leading to cheers in the BW camp, and a couple belligerent grunts from the SC2 camp. 7) But the animosity never disappeared. As evident in this thread alone it's still going strong. Neither side has truly forgiven each other, and peace might never be achieved. We may still hope, but that hope is dimming, together with the star that is broodwar. That whole group-think mentality in parts 4 and 5 is the problem. You can't say that SC2 attacked BW first, and BW is only responding. SC2 and BW haven't and never will do anything. People get on the forums and make posts, not communities. You're absolutely right. It very well may be possible that that someone else started it. But those of us who never ventured into the SC2 forums wouldn't know that. How could we?
The point is still that it's not one community that attack another. People from the different communities make posts. I'm very sad to see BW go. I'm not a long time follower (I started following BW with SC2 beta and the Nal_ra+hyungjoon series after a wc3 background) but I've grown to love the game so I'm really sad to see BW go even though most people in here probably will accuse me of being a sc2newb or part of the problem or whatever.
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Ribbon has a point with how some people have been treating him, but he should stop trying to speak as if he's the judge of the BW forum. Maybe you and a few others have been able to deal with the seismic shifts in the scene, and have admirably helped it survive in some form or another, but that doesn't give you the right to tell others HOW to mourn. Let the purists be. When beauty dies, not all artists will take up arms in her behalf - some will take up their brushes and give her a fitting goodbye. Let BW fans do the same.
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EPT
