Last year, quite a few observers tried to argue whytheirfavoriteteam would win the Proleague championship. But all of them would be shown to be misguided, except one. Only fanatacist's enlightened foretelling of SK Telecom T1's victory would prove to be accurate, and it is well worth re-reading to reflect on as a starting point to look forward, as history is about to repeat itself.
It is self-evident to any ardent follower of professional Brood War that SK Telecom T1 will be the Proleague Champions again this year. However, some of you may not have realized this truth yet, perhaps being less observant fans of this beautiful e-Sport, so here are some indisputable facts to help you understand why SK Telecom T1's victory is inevitable again this year.
The Order of the Universe
In the natural order of things, the proleague championship belongs to SKT T1. It is an anomaly when other teams somehow rise to the top. Did you know that no team has ever won the proleague championship more than twice? No team other than SKT T1, that is, who have claimed victory no less than four times (or more, depending on exactly how you categorize past events). Other teams may somehow climb to the top once or twice, but their reign is always fleeting, and the championship inevitably returns to SKT T1. Any pretenders trying to even get a glimpse of the championship trophy are fighting an uphill battle against the laws of ESPORTS, and SKT T1 is ready to take down all challengers to the throne.
The Main Line
Fantasy, Bisu, Best. SKT T1's aces who can handily rip apart any other team's lineup. No other team has a 1-2-3 punch as strong as SKT T1's main line. Some might have a superlative ace, or maybe a pair of relatively strong players, but nothing that approaches the majesty of SKT T1's strength. Even Flash and Jaedong have shown signs of weakness in recent times. But this month, someone else has stepped up to snatch the sigil of reliability, and that player is the cornerstone of SKT T1's main line.
Fantasy
You may not have realized it, but this past round, Jung Myung Hoon was the best terran and best player overall in proleague, with an 8-1 record, and in addition, he's qualified to the Ro16 of both individual leagues as well. While it's always debatable which player is currently strongest in skill, there's no debate as to who is currently most reliable, with the undisputed highest win percentage in proleague R5 (not counting those one game winners, of course). And he shows now sign of stopping. Many players have stepped up their game and changed their strategies to face the former most reliable Terran, and have started to snatch an increasing number of wins from the player once thought of as unbeatable, but that's not the case with Fantasy. Despite everyone's realization that Fantasy's signature vultures and dropship play often spell doom to his opponents, others have yet to assemble a reliable counter to neutralize them. And Fantasy further ups his game during the playoffs (see: last year), with the legendary Terran Oov at his side as his coach and mentor. If there's any one player that's going to dominate these playoffs, it is Fantasy, not whoever else you might have had in mind.
Bisu
The freshly revitalized Revolutionist is once again ready to stomp on the carcasses of his foes, returning to proleague as well as the Ro16 of both individual leagues. Having undergone special training to recover from a minor setback, Kim Taek Yong is back to assume his position as the first among the protoss dragons, the head of the tribe. Some may argue that his recent televised matches did not involve opponents who could serve as definitive tests to judge whether or not he has regained his form, but those observers are looking at things the wrong way. The fact of the matter is that the peak of Bisu's current strength has yet to be revealed. Those that paid attention to his matches will see that his harassment, his multitasking ability, his micro and macromanagement are once again impeccable, having returned to or even surpassed their previous levels. Still, despite evidence in the form of the skillful play that Bisu has shown off recently, many may dare to claim or think to themselves that Bisu is no longer a top player in Brood War. Be prepared to eat crow during these playoffs as Bisu once again brings down the hurt while SKT T1 marches to the top of the podium.
Best
The Monster Macro Machine still terrorizes his enemies with an unending stream of protoss might. As long as Doh Jae Wook has his probes and his gateways, his opponents will cower before an unending flow of units ready to march in and tear apart any sort of defense they might mount. Terrans tremble before his might. Protosses would do well to fear him. And zergs - well, they can no longer rest easy the way they once did when they meet him on the battlefield. While it cannot be denied that this dragon does exhibit a weakness against the Swarm, his vulnerability is less than it once was - no longer does he simply roll over and die to the weakest of zerg cerebrates. And God help any Terran victim who faces Best on the battlefield.
The SKT Zergs
Once the laughingstock of the league, the SKT zergs are now a dangerous force to be reckoned with. Did you know that a SKT Zerg has the best win percentage among all zergs in proleague R5, with 6 clear victories and only 1 loss (815 with one game doesn't count)? Or that the 3 SKT Zergs together have the same or more wins than the entire zerg lineup of any other playoff-bound team? Last year, while "SKT Zerg" was still an insult, SKT T1 easily took the championship in a total of 8 sets to 3. What kind of massacre will now ensue now that SKT T1 has augmented its strength with strong zergs? Be ready to watch as this zerg trio overwhelm any opposition they face with their newfound abilities.
The Overseer
Somehow, for every coach there are voices claiming that the particular coach is some sort of genius or master planner, but the reality is that Park Young Woon outsmarts them all. Still, any evidence that might be put forth in support of this fact will likely be greeted with accusations of luck or coincidence, so it may be more instructive to focus on other qualities that set the SKT T1 coach apart.
Guts and courage. Remember that bet offered during last year's proleague grand finals? The head-shaving bet that Oz's coach Cho was too chicken to accept? That's just one example of how confident SKT's coach is in his players, as well as a sign of the coach's willingness to put things on the line. As another example, some are saying that SKT T1 stepped over the line by making a move that would result in OGN rescheduling its group selection. These people are mistaken and are interpreting events in an incorrect manner. Instead, the truth is that the managers and coaches of the other teams were too timid and lacked the courage to take action in response to OGN's entirely unreasonable scheduling. Only the SKT coach considered and challenged OGN's fiat and forced the broadcaster to switch to a more reasonable day.
Empathy and a connection with his players. Those that pay attention to the players and teams between games would notice that the SKT coach is always ready with a pat on the back or a hug for all his players. While some might look down upon such actions and dismissively label this approach as "touchy-feely", one cannot argue with the results and team cohesion that the coach has created. Others may somehow be deluded into thinking that a cold, unapproachable front that many coaches adopt is somehow better, which is untrue. It's more likely that this kind of attitude is adopted by those coaches who aren't able to bring themselves to reach out to the players the way Coach Park has.
The Emperor
While it's clear Lim Yo Hwan is no longer the dominant player he was years ago, he still serves as a guide and a mentor to the team, as well as its figurehead. What other team can claim to have one of the forefathers and the most significant pioneer of professional Brood War among its ranks? The player who was the moving force behind the creation of player teams in the first place? Boxer can provide an unrivaled amount of experience that his teammates can drawn upon for strength, and he continues to devise more strategies and mold his successors to reach their potential. Boxer is the X-Factor behind SKT T1 that no other team possesses or could even hope to replicate.
The Resurgence
While SKT T1 displayed some weakness mid-season, they have come back stronger than ever on the road to the playoffs. Other teams are entering the playoffs on the back of strong performances early in the year, and are currently underperforming below whatever ephemeral potential they showed earlier this season, while SKT T1's strength continues to increase, with no signs of plateauing. With the exception of MBC, every team headed to the playoffs not named SK Telecom T1 has had a worse R5 when compared to R4, and MBC has merely improved from a godawful 4-6 to a mediocre 6-5.
The Bunkie
That's right. No other team has been able to make a mascot work like SK Telecom T1. That's because Bunkie is baller.
There you go, folks. Unassailable evidence that SK Telecom T1 will once again emerge as the champions of proleague in a few short weeks. Those of you still not convinced, I only pity your blindness. In any case, when Coach Park once again hoists the trophy over the beaches of Gwangahnri, I will not be called a seer accurately predicting an unlikely outcome, merely a realist stating the obvious.
SKT1 is about to return to their former glory and show why they're the most dominant force the progaming world has every seen.
Excellent write-up my good sir. From someone who can remember when T1 was just created (seriously, I posted on the second page of that thread!) and has been a devout supporter through the good times and the bad, I get goosebumps everytime our boys are about to enter the booth. I've been amazed, surprised, elated, even disappointed by it all before. Time to go on one more roller coaster ride!!
Edit - It DOES need more love for the second best player ever to exist. I know T1's legacy is so much more than just the two best Terrans that have ever lived, but he at least needs to get some attention. The unspoken strategist behind the curtains.
On July 16 2010 13:39 EvilTeletubby wrote: SKT1 is about to return to their former glory and show why they're the most dominant force the progaming world has every seen.
I don't get it, you're still the defending champions.
On July 16 2010 13:39 EvilTeletubby wrote: SKT1 is about to return to their former glory and show why they're the most dominant force the progaming world has every seen.
I don't get it, you're still the defending champions.
We're gonna show em that we just momentarily slipped in the early rounds but that we're gonna come back stronger then ever.
Also at OP: What about WemadeFox and Nada or Ace and like all of them =p?
On July 16 2010 13:39 EvilTeletubby wrote: SKT1 is about to return to their former glory and show why they're the most dominant force the progaming world has every seen.
I don't get it, you're still the defending champions.
I'm talking about 2005-esque levels of former glory.
*Edit* BUT YOU FORGOT HYUK ESPECIALLY! HE'S A DUAL RO16 LEAGUER PLUS THE CAPTAIN OF SKT1 ZERGS. All depends on Hyukster for SKT1! Fix it OP FIX!!!!!!!!!
Also forgot the mysterious unknown new Zerg coach that suddenly instantly made all SKT1 zerg players become better like magic. Either way, you did well Zona, enough reasons to show why SKT will roll CJ like easy. ^_^
Another reason: T1 has more players in both leagues than any other team. You will all be completely owned all the way to the victory in the finals. None of your teams have the ability to stand up to SKT1.
ahh its about time the proleague hype got going =P GO SKT!!! WOO! i'd love to see these guys return to win the gold 2 years in a row, especially after taking some hard shots earlier on this year (IGPX season 2 anyone? =P) but yeah, I'm just hoping that SKT's performance stays consistent, because they have a long road to the finals filled with strong teams (and an ever-so-weak STX), and their first fight is against CJ, with respectable names like Effort and Snow. =0
I think SKT1 has a very good chance of winning this, their Bo7 lineup is crazy good. Bisu, BeSt, Fantasy, Hyuk, s2 +Soo/Canata/Ssak is just ridiculous. The three I bolded are all dual leaguers, and unless I'm mistaken no other team has more than one person in the Ro16 of both leagues.
This storng lineup also translates into having great Ace match choices because they have the advantage of having players from each race they can use in an ace. All these players have been looking pretty good recently and can be expected to perform reasonably well against any race. Since the beggining of june Fantasy is 82.35% Bisu is 76.96% Hyuk is 58% and s2 is 66.67%. Each player certainly has some vulnerable looking matchups (Bisu's PvP, Hyuk's is inconsistant but has showed great play in every matchup recently and Fantasy's historical Bio TvZ) that is still some pretty good looking Ace choices and will make it much harder for them to be sniped.
Really I could see any team winning this season (well not MBC, Light and Sea aren't gonna cut it, and STX has low chances unless they come out of their slump) but SKT1 is the favorite by a fair margin at this point imo.
Edit: Forgot GO SKT! I know I have Khan as my team but SKT and Khan are basically tied for my #1 favorite.
On July 16 2010 14:38 blahman3344 wrote: ahh its about time the proleague hype got going =P GO SKT!!! WOO! i'd love to see these guys return to win the gold 2 years in a row, especially after taking some hard shots earlier on this year (IGPX season 2 anyone? =P) but yeah, I'm just hoping that SKT's performance stays consistent, because they have a long road to the finals filled with strong teams (and an ever-so-weak STX), and their first fight is against CJ, with respectable names like Effort and Snow. =0
I hardly consider Effort or Snow respectable when looked down upon from SKT1 point of view. Effort's run in OSL especially during Ro16 was weak where if not for that incident, he wouldn't have come close to what he is. Snow is just overrated, Hyuk completely ate him alive and he will again.
I'm exited for SKT. I think that KT stands the best chance because of them only having to win one game, and they have a strong first 4. But with flash not being an automatic two wins, I think we got this
On July 16 2010 14:19 bearbuddy wrote: Psh. The universe favors disorder ;p
On July 16 2010 14:09 ArvickHero wrote: SKT claiming all titles this season would be pretty damn sweet, and it looks very possible right now
Has SKT won anything this season?
WL - KT Dream League - CJ and none in individuals ...?
THIS SEASON.. meaning this osl, this msl, PL season.. right?
Don't know what he meant by that, hence the ? mark. I thought WL counted for sure, since it's really a part of the overall PL. I counted any individual league that overlapped with the 09-10 PL season as well. I also agree with d3, no one gives a shit about DL =).
And yes, I perceive SKT like the evil Yankees empire.
On July 16 2010 14:28 tree.hugger wrote: Touché! + Show Spoiler +
Care to bet, Zona?
If CJ wins, Zona will shave his headballs.
There you go.
Boxer is gifted with the "Cheese Aura" which increases the success rate of cheese by 125% to his allies (yes, you can have more than 100% chance of success. Boxer redefines common sense).
Not much of a story. Just Midas feeling the rush after winning the ace-- thumbs down in front of Khan's bench followed by smacking the mascot. What a pro.
SKT will dominate now that Fantasy and Bisu are back in form. No team can field two players of that calibre, backed up by a line-up of solid performers. Well, and Canata
this is probably one of the strongest lineups OF ALL TIME. or at least for a really long time. s2's being underestimated (as is Ssak) and bisu/fantasy/best are sure to win at least two of their games. hyuk and canata both also have great chances of ripping apart the scrubs that other teams will need to fill the lineups.
On July 16 2010 17:13 seRapH wrote: this is probably one of the strongest lineups OF ALL TIME. or at least for a really long time. s2's being underestimated (as is Ssak) and bisu/fantasy/best are sure to win at least two of their games. hyuk and canata both also have great chances of ripping apart the scrubs that other teams will need to fill the lineups.
If it was actually a strong lineup they would not have just scraped into the play-offs.
On July 16 2010 17:13 seRapH wrote: this is probably one of the strongest lineups OF ALL TIME. or at least for a really long time. s2's being underestimated (as is Ssak) and bisu/fantasy/best are sure to win at least two of their games. hyuk and canata both also have great chances of ripping apart the scrubs that other teams will need to fill the lineups.
If it was actually a strong lineup they would not have just scraped into the play-offs.
They qualified rather easily once round 4 started. CJ fans come in here talk nonsense when they are the ones that qualified 6th and barely. The nerve of these kids... even just saying "no". Garbage kids, garbage fans, garbage team. Yeah, i just went there.
lol, since the final is approaching. there are so many articles on TL talking about which team will win the final. in fact, i don`t have a favourite team but i am really fond of Boxer and Bisu. So hope SKT`T1 will win. GL SKT
Nice OP. T1 is a rock solid team now that its Zerg lineup has turned around. I'm hoping BeSt can get some good matchups and pitch in here and there. Some PvTs on macro maps and I'll be happy
Any team that pisses on the fans as SKT1 did by pulling out of the OSL ceremony earns very bad karma. The extra practice time they put in the individual leagues will be irrelevant.
On July 17 2010 00:26 WWJDD wrote: Any team that pisses on the fans as SKT1 did by pulling out of the OSL ceremony earns very bad karma. The extra practice time they put in the individual leagues will be irrelevant.
Sorry, that's such an ignorant statement.
I would argue that because they care enough for the fans to be the best team they can possibly be, they made their decision. This was already hashed out in the other thread and the general consensus was that SKT1 was absolutely in the right. And as one of their fans, I support what they did 100%.
The whole "they didn't care about the fans" has NO FUCKING MERIT WHATSOEVER. Did you even read the SKT1 response? -_-
Great write up. SKT has always been a solid team, I think they'll definitely take the championship again this year. Hell, I'll bet that even Bunkie could win a game for them.
On July 17 2010 00:01 alffla wrote: i hate skt1 why they always keep wining proleague
Generally, the best team wins. Hence SKT keeps winning. Nothing too surprising. As for why you hate them, maybe some of their players screwed over one of your washed up talents of old(nalra, savior etc) by COMPLETELY DESTROYING them.
On July 16 2010 22:54 swanized wrote: SKT fanboyship is certainly the strongest!
indeed. SKT fanboys vs CJ fanboys in epic Bo7!
Seriously, I'd like to see this ( w/ in-game chat allowed + encourged!) gogo tourny/brackets/TL event. CJ fans pitted against SKT fans all the way to the finals.
either before Match 1 or before Match 3 if it gets to that.
You may not have realized it, but this past round, Jung Myung Hoon was the best terran and best player overall in proleague, with an 8-1 record, and in addition, he's qualified to the Ro16 of both individual leagues as well. While it's always debatable which player is currently strongest in skill, there's no debate as to who is currently most reliable, with the undisputed highest win percentage in proleague R5 (not counting those one game winners, of course). And he shows now sign of stopping. Many players have stepped up their game and changed their strategies to face the former most reliable Terran, and have started to snatch an increasing number of wins from the player once thought of as unbeatable, but that's not the case with Fantasy. Despite everyone's realization that Fantasy's signature vultures and dropship play often spell doom to his opponents, others have yet to assemble a reliable counter to neutralize them. And Fantasy further ups his game during the playoffs (see: last year), with the legendary Terran Oov at his side as his coach and mentor. If there's any one player that's going to dominate these playoffs, it is Fantasy, not whoever else you might have had in mind.
how can you call Fantasy good at all after this match? This is Fantasy's game sense folks. The second something he has unprepared for hits, he's gonna crack and fall.
I love this match btw it has a shot of iloveoov calling Fantasy an idiot.
You may not have realized it, but this past round, Jung Myung Hoon was the best terran and best player overall in proleague, with an 8-1 record, and in addition, he's qualified to the Ro16 of both individual leagues as well. While it's always debatable which player is currently strongest in skill, there's no debate as to who is currently most reliable, with the undisputed highest win percentage in proleague R5 (not counting those one game winners, of course). And he shows now sign of stopping. Many players have stepped up their game and changed their strategies to face the former most reliable Terran, and have started to snatch an increasing number of wins from the player once thought of as unbeatable, but that's not the case with Fantasy. Despite everyone's realization that Fantasy's signature vultures and dropship play often spell doom to his opponents, others have yet to assemble a reliable counter to neutralize them. And Fantasy further ups his game during the playoffs (see: last year), with the legendary Terran Oov at his side as his coach and mentor. If there's any one player that's going to dominate these playoffs, it is Fantasy, not whoever else you might have had in mind.
how can you call Fantasy good at all after this match? This is Fantasy's game sense folks. The second something he has unprepared for hits, he's gonna crack and fall.
I love this match btw it has a shot of iloveoov calling Fantasy an idiot.
sorry but skt is going to lose to CJ tonight
If I find a one game, where JD or Flash fails like this, can I call them noobs? F.e. one game when JD forgot reaserching a consume, what costed him game?
On July 17 2010 00:26 WWJDD wrote: Any team that pisses on the fans as SKT1 did by pulling out of the OSL ceremony earns very bad karma. The extra practice time they put in the individual leagues will be irrelevant.
Sending bad vibes to SKT1 starting......
NOW
They're not getting any extra practice time because OGN moved the date back.
But yeah, we'll see if the momentary wrath of the Korean netizens has any special voodoo powers.
You may not have realized it, but this past round, Jung Myung Hoon was the best terran and best player overall in proleague, with an 8-1 record, and in addition, he's qualified to the Ro16 of both individual leagues as well. While it's always debatable which player is currently strongest in skill, there's no debate as to who is currently most reliable, with the undisputed highest win percentage in proleague R5 (not counting those one game winners, of course). And he shows now sign of stopping. Many players have stepped up their game and changed their strategies to face the former most reliable Terran, and have started to snatch an increasing number of wins from the player once thought of as unbeatable, but that's not the case with Fantasy. Despite everyone's realization that Fantasy's signature vultures and dropship play often spell doom to his opponents, others have yet to assemble a reliable counter to neutralize them. And Fantasy further ups his game during the playoffs (see: last year), with the legendary Terran Oov at his side as his coach and mentor. If there's any one player that's going to dominate these playoffs, it is Fantasy, not whoever else you might have had in mind.
how can you call Fantasy good at all after this match? This is Fantasy's game sense folks. The second something he has unprepared for hits, he's gonna crack and fall.
I love this match btw it has a shot of iloveoov calling Fantasy an idiot.
sorry but skt is going to lose to CJ tonight
If I find a one game, where JD or Flash fails like this, can I call them noobs? F.e. one game when JD forgot reaserching a consume, what costed him game?
Forgetting consume or storm isn't game sense. It's a mistake. Fantasy pushing out with those marines... that's gamesense, and Fantasy lacks it.
Ok, if you are talking about game sense I can show you some games of Fantasy, where peaple screamed "MapHacker!", when he found enemy's hidden expantion (or proxy) as well as some games when he was close to being killed by stop lurkers. Does it prove anything? Guess what. It proves nothing.
You may not have realized it, but this past round, Jung Myung Hoon was the best terran and best player overall in proleague, with an 8-1 record, and in addition, he's qualified to the Ro16 of both individual leagues as well. While it's always debatable which player is currently strongest in skill, there's no debate as to who is currently most reliable, with the undisputed highest win percentage in proleague R5 (not counting those one game winners, of course). And he shows now sign of stopping. Many players have stepped up their game and changed their strategies to face the former most reliable Terran, and have started to snatch an increasing number of wins from the player once thought of as unbeatable, but that's not the case with Fantasy. Despite everyone's realization that Fantasy's signature vultures and dropship play often spell doom to his opponents, others have yet to assemble a reliable counter to neutralize them. And Fantasy further ups his game during the playoffs (see: last year), with the legendary Terran Oov at his side as his coach and mentor. If there's any one player that's going to dominate these playoffs, it is Fantasy, not whoever else you might have had in mind.
how can you call Fantasy good at all after this match? This is Fantasy's game sense folks. The second something he has unprepared for hits, he's gonna crack and fall.
I love this match btw it has a shot of iloveoov calling Fantasy an idiot.
sorry but skt is going to lose to CJ tonight
If I find a one game, where JD or Flash fails like this, can I call them noobs? F.e. one game when JD forgot reaserching a consume, what costed him game?
Forgetting consume or storm isn't game sense. It's a mistake. Fantasy pushing out with those marines... that's gamesense, and Fantasy lacks it.
Sorry.
Well he must be pretty damn good in everything else then to get his results because they're not exactly bad by any means.
You may not have realized it, but this past round, Jung Myung Hoon was the best terran and best player overall in proleague, with an 8-1 record, and in addition, he's qualified to the Ro16 of both individual leagues as well. While it's always debatable which player is currently strongest in skill, there's no debate as to who is currently most reliable, with the undisputed highest win percentage in proleague R5 (not counting those one game winners, of course). And he shows now sign of stopping. Many players have stepped up their game and changed their strategies to face the former most reliable Terran, and have started to snatch an increasing number of wins from the player once thought of as unbeatable, but that's not the case with Fantasy. Despite everyone's realization that Fantasy's signature vultures and dropship play often spell doom to his opponents, others have yet to assemble a reliable counter to neutralize them. And Fantasy further ups his game during the playoffs (see: last year), with the legendary Terran Oov at his side as his coach and mentor. If there's any one player that's going to dominate these playoffs, it is Fantasy, not whoever else you might have had in mind.
how can you call Fantasy good at all after this match? This is Fantasy's game sense folks. The second something he has unprepared for hits, he's gonna crack and fall.
I love this match btw it has a shot of iloveoov calling Fantasy an idiot.
sorry but skt is going to lose to CJ tonight
If I find a one game, where JD or Flash fails like this, can I call them noobs? F.e. one game when JD forgot reaserching a consume, what costed him game?
Forgetting consume or storm isn't game sense. It's a mistake. Fantasy pushing out with those marines... that's gamesense, and Fantasy lacks it.
Sorry.
You honestly think forgetting consume in late game standard TvZ, and storm in PvZ, you know, the kind pros play every day for HOURS, is more acceptable than getting confused from a very unexpected strategy?
You may not have realized it, but this past round, Jung Myung Hoon was the best terran and best player overall in proleague, with an 8-1 record, and in addition, he's qualified to the Ro16 of both individual leagues as well. While it's always debatable which player is currently strongest in skill, there's no debate as to who is currently most reliable, with the undisputed highest win percentage in proleague R5 (not counting those one game winners, of course). And he shows now sign of stopping. Many players have stepped up their game and changed their strategies to face the former most reliable Terran, and have started to snatch an increasing number of wins from the player once thought of as unbeatable, but that's not the case with Fantasy. Despite everyone's realization that Fantasy's signature vultures and dropship play often spell doom to his opponents, others have yet to assemble a reliable counter to neutralize them. And Fantasy further ups his game during the playoffs (see: last year), with the legendary Terran Oov at his side as his coach and mentor. If there's any one player that's going to dominate these playoffs, it is Fantasy, not whoever else you might have had in mind.
how can you call Fantasy good at all after this match? This is Fantasy's game sense folks. The second something he has unprepared for hits, he's gonna crack and fall.
I love this match btw it has a shot of iloveoov calling Fantasy an idiot.
sorry but skt is going to lose to CJ tonight
If I find a one game, where JD or Flash fails like this, can I call them noobs? F.e. one game when JD forgot reaserching a consume, what costed him game?
Forgetting consume or storm isn't game sense. It's a mistake. Fantasy pushing out with those marines... that's gamesense, and Fantasy lacks it.
Sorry.
You honestly think forgetting consume in late game standard TvZ, and storm in PvZ, you know, the kind pros play every day for HOURS, is more acceptable than getting confused from a very unexpected strategy?
They are both game changing mistakes.
They're both game changing mistakes -- but "forgetting" to research consume is completely understandable. There's many valid reasons why this may have happened and none of them relate to "gamesense" unless the player completely forgot about it (unlikely). It's more likely they pressed the wrong upgrade or just clicked it but it didnt register and they assumed.
I'm sorry that everyone assumes Fantasy to be this great player. The only reason Fantasy has any sort of substance is because he can click with some vultures and iloveoov and Boxer spends all their time thinking about builds Fantasy could use cause Fantasy is that incapable of thinking up builds. Fantasy is lucky iloveoov and Boxer lives vicariously through him, it's the only reason why they would care. But in truth, without these artificial forces seemingly making it look like Fantasy can actually play, Fantasy is nothing.
[PS: I'm just trash talking because it's fun. I don't actually believe this]
Well he must be pretty damn good in everything else then to get his results because they're not exactly bad by any means.
Well, yep,he's pretty damn good at doing what oov's telling him to do. Game sense is the kind of stuff you need to win starleague, not to be a good player.
Oh Milkis you should just stay in the WeMade thread! SKT vs CJ should be a tricky match. It's a shame they have to meet so early, but at least it'll be faster than MBC vs FOX. .-.
T1 meh...I dont think they will be winning anything this year. Best, Bisu, Fantasy arent exactly reliable. And the sad day has come when Hyuk and S2 are the go to players...they have a decent shot in a sense, because of the experience and potential in their roster
For T1 the key will be teamwork, because I dont see them winning ace matches in their current form.
SKT zergs failed once again I hoped for a zerg win today. SKT cannot expect every time the trio to score ... today is an example , fantasy lsot and the match went away.... I will shout as louder as I can for SKT (:
Damn it Hyuk stop practicing for SL for a few hours and focus on PL instead, you'll get rolled by Fantasy in MSL anyway! /ticked off at both Hyuk and Fantasy
On July 17 2010 22:29 JohnColtrane wrote: no lol, theres still a match left to play. if skt1 wins, i think they play another right after (someone said they abolished superace)
What's superace (i only started watching SC this year)?
I knew SkyHigh was a good TvTer, but I didn't know he was that good. I'm honestly not sure if even Flash at his peak could've turned that game around the way he did. Good stuff.
Oh hey, everyone. So it's pretty obvious the SKT zergs need to evolve a little more.
But I don't know if everyone's realized - the SKT protosses have truly ascended to another plane of existence, having absorbed some of each other's powers. Bisu just displayed pretty monster macro (even the pro MBC commentators were pointing it out), while Best has showed off some pretty bitch'n DT control, and a small bit of zealot and other unit micro as well. And all this without losing their own signature strengths - Bisu's control and harass are as good as ever, while Best's hordes of units still flood out from his gateways.
On July 19 2010 03:07 Zona wrote: Oh hey, everyone. So it's pretty obvious the SKT zergs need to evolve a little more.
But I don't know if everyone's realized - the SKT protosses have truly ascended to another plane of existence, having absorbed some of each other's powers. Bisu just displayed pretty monster macro (even the pro MBC commentators were pointing it out), while Best has showed off some pretty bitch'n DT control, and a small bit of zealot and other unit micro as well. And all this without losing their own signature strengths - Bisu's control and harass are as good as ever, while Best's hordes of units still flood out from his gateways.
Not really hard to have bitchin DT control when your opponent doesn't do anything about it. Hey, where'd my drones go? Ahh, I'll just make a new batch.
2 minutes later: Hey, where'd my drones go? Oh shit, there's a DT.
On July 19 2010 03:07 Zona wrote: Oh hey, everyone. So it's pretty obvious the SKT zergs need to evolve a little more.
But I don't know if everyone's realized - the SKT protosses have truly ascended to another plane of existence, having absorbed some of each other's powers. Bisu just displayed pretty monster macro (even the pro MBC commentators were pointing it out), while Best has showed off some pretty bitch'n DT control, and a small bit of zealot and other unit micro as well. And all this without losing their own signature strengths - Bisu's control and harass are as good as ever, while Best's hordes of units still flood out from his gateways.
Not really hard to have bitchin DT control when your opponent doesn't do anything about it. Hey, where'd my drones go? Ahh, I'll just make a new batch.
2 minutes later: Hey, where'd my drones go? Oh shit, there's a DT.
Well the DT control wasn't in a vacuum - there was a lot else going on too (a bunch of battles, and Best's 3rd getting razed by lings, hah). And 36 kills is nothing to sniff at, oblivious opponent or not. But still, it's a skill Best really hasn't exhibited before, so it's evidence that he's still growing and developing to be a stronger player.
On July 19 2010 03:07 Zona wrote: Oh hey, everyone. So it's pretty obvious the SKT zergs need to evolve a little more.
But I don't know if everyone's realized - the SKT protosses have truly ascended to another plane of existence, having absorbed some of each other's powers. Bisu just displayed pretty monster macro (even the pro MBC commentators were pointing it out), while Best has showed off some pretty bitch'n DT control, and a small bit of zealot and other unit micro as well. And all this without losing their own signature strengths - Bisu's control and harass are as good as ever, while Best's hordes of units still flood out from his gateways.
Not really hard to have bitchin DT control when your opponent doesn't do anything about it. Hey, where'd my drones go? Ahh, I'll just make a new batch.
2 minutes later: Hey, where'd my drones go? Oh shit, there's a DT.
Well the DT control wasn't in a vacuum - there was a lot else going on too (a bunch of battles, and Best's 3rd getting razed by lings, hah). And 36 kills is nothing to sniff at, oblivious opponent or not. But still, it's a skill Best really hasn't exhibited before, so it's evidence that he's still growing and developing to be a stronger player.
It came at the expense of his 3rd, so I would say Best is till pretty bad at multitask.
On July 19 2010 03:07 Zona wrote: Oh hey, everyone. So it's pretty obvious the SKT zergs need to evolve a little more.
But I don't know if everyone's realized - the SKT protosses have truly ascended to another plane of existence, having absorbed some of each other's powers. Bisu just displayed pretty monster macro (even the pro MBC commentators were pointing it out), while Best has showed off some pretty bitch'n DT control, and a small bit of zealot and other unit micro as well. And all this without losing their own signature strengths - Bisu's control and harass are as good as ever, while Best's hordes of units still flood out from his gateways.
Not really hard to have bitchin DT control when your opponent doesn't do anything about it. Hey, where'd my drones go? Ahh, I'll just make a new batch.
2 minutes later: Hey, where'd my drones go? Oh shit, there's a DT.
Well the DT control wasn't in a vacuum - there was a lot else going on too (a bunch of battles, and Best's 3rd getting razed by lings, hah). And 36 kills is nothing to sniff at, oblivious opponent or not. But still, it's a skill Best really hasn't exhibited before, so it's evidence that he's still growing and developing to be a stronger player.
It came at the expense of his 3rd, so I would say Best is till pretty bad at multitask.
bad in what context; compared to an S-class player? Best decided to attack during the -30 drones for hydra timing instead of dragging the game on by defending his third until he could make enough defenses to push out without losing it... I don't think it was a bad decision, since, in hindsight, he won : P
Where is the freaking interview ? Why when CJ won they had their interview thread and now we win and no interview yet ?
And I agree 100% with the idea of Best and Bisu learning from each others. The key to beat Terran is macro, while the key to beat Zerg is multitasking. If Best and Bisu can morph to become the Best/Bisu archon then Protoss will no more fear Zerg and Terran.
On July 19 2010 06:14 kmdarkmaster wrote: Where is the freaking interview ? Why when CJ won they had their interview thread and now we win and no interview yet ?
And I agree 100% with the idea of Best and Bisu learning from each others. The key to beat Terran is macro, while the key to beat Zerg is multitasking. If Best and Bisu can morph to become the Best/Bisu archon then Protoss will no more fear Zerg and Terran.
On July 19 2010 06:14 kmdarkmaster wrote: Where is the freaking interview ? Why when CJ won they had their interview thread and now we win and no interview yet ?
User was warned for this post
Hey I'm really sorry for making this ridiculous demand. I never imagine that there are some guys translating all those stuffs from freaking Korean (I thought that it was just copy/paste lol). So yeah my excuse to the translators, hope u guys do well and hwaiting.
On July 19 2010 06:14 kmdarkmaster wrote: Where is the freaking interview ? Why when CJ won they had their interview thread and now we win and no interview yet ?
And I agree 100% with the idea of Best and Bisu learning from each others. The key to beat Terran is macro, while the key to beat Zerg is multitasking. If Best and Bisu can morph to become the Best/Bisu archon then Protoss will no more fear Zerg and Terran.
Because most translators don't like SKT.
Kona is clearly slacking and not being the translation monster he was several months ago. >.>
On July 19 2010 06:14 kmdarkmaster wrote: Where is the freaking interview ? Why when CJ won they had their interview thread and now we win and no interview yet ?
And I agree 100% with the idea of Best and Bisu learning from each others. The key to beat Terran is macro, while the key to beat Zerg is multitasking. If Best and Bisu can morph to become the Best/Bisu archon then Protoss will no more fear Zerg and Terran.
Because most translators don't like SKT.
Kona is clearly slacking and not being the translation monster he was several months ago. >.>
Can't wait until Tuesday. It's been an epic tie so far.
I still feel like it all comes down to the SKT T1 zergs, and whether they can pinch a set or two. Fantasy avoiding skyHigh is also huge - credit to the CJ coach so far for dictating terms on that front.
I'd like to think SKT T1 will go into the deciding round with all the momentum....time will tell I guess.
The freshly revitalized Revolutionist is once again ready to stomp on the carcasses of his foes, returning to proleague as well as the Ro16 of both individual leagues. Having undergone special training to recover from a minor setback, Kim Taek Yong is back to assume his position as the first among the protoss dragons, the head of the tribe. Some may argue that his recent televised matches did not involve opponents who could serve as definitive tests to judge whether or not he has regained his form, but those observers are looking at things the wrong way. The fact of the matter is that the peak of Bisu's current strength has yet to be revealed. Those that paid attention to his matches will see that his harassment, his multitasking ability, his micro and macromanagement are once again impeccable, having returned to or even surpassed their previous levels. Still, despite evidence in the form of the skillful play that Bisu has shown off recently, many may dare to claim or think to themselves that Bisu is no longer a top player in Brood War. Be prepared to eat crow during these playoffs as Bisu once again brings down the hurt while SKT T1 marches to the top of the podium.
Called it, while even disciple didn't believe...who's the hero in the series with CJ? That's right - Bisu, Mr. KTY, the first among the protoss dragons. 4-0 over those hapless CJ wannabes. (The thing is, I'm an SKT fan because of Boxer/Oov/Fantasy, not primarily because of Bisu...but I knew the man was back.)
GOGOGO SKT T1! Jung Mung Hoon your vultures are sexy in the no-homoest of ways. Bisu I believe in your resurgence. Doh Jae Wook your macro still amazes me. Hyuk....well, your bad, but its ok.
Congrats to SKT1 fans (for beating CJ) - and also it's good to see Bisu back! Although Stork will always be my #1 forever, I just love seeing Protoss (especially the 6 dragons) emerge victorious.
On July 20 2010 22:43 OpticalShot wrote: Congrats to SKT1 fans (for beating CJ) - and also it's good to see Bisu back! Although Stork will always be my #1 forever, I just love seeing Protoss (especially the 6 dragons) emerge victorious.
So, when you disagree with a statement that comes with ample evidence and reasoning to support it, you may want to consider if you can actually find fault with any of the supporting reasoning provided. Or, it may be in fact that your viewpoint is flawed. Take for example, such amazingly well thought out counterarguments by CJ supporters, who all were unable to actually attack the meat of my well presented argument.
On July 16 2010 13:43 IntoTheWow wrote: no.
On July 16 2010 13:45 Jugan wrote: best kinda looks like effort in the picture with fantasy, bisu, and best.
Actually, to be honest, I really was quite disappointed by the lack of posters pointing out the real weaknesses in the arguments presented, which I am personally aware of, being the author of the piece. Only "Best really isn't that good" actually came up, while some of the other flimsy arguments remain untouched (although at least one of the real weaknesses was glaringly exposed in the series with cJ).
was an exciting series, i was definitely hoping for effort v bisu and i feel bad for a young player like snow having to lose in the playoffs after having playing so great in his first two sets.
im really happy with bisu's performance, he seems like he has gotten into stride and is a dependable ace for skt1. fantasy played well too, unfortunately he also played skyhigh twice >.> but is a talented guy and im sure he will be an asset against + Show Spoiler +
those sick kents on fox
i am disappointed in hyuk though :C i thought he was playing really well up until these games and he made some really stupid decisions, vs effort and vs movie too
Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
Well, now that Hyuk is forced to play in a group with Terrans and Zergs, I can see this as a very helpful thing for SKT. Now Hyuk HAS to practice his vT and vZ, and he may prove to be useful in the upcoming battle against team Terran
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
nah more like
fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
nah more like
fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
nah more like
fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro
I think SKT zergs should pool 5 everygame. They will make better than the 1-7 record against CJ. For sure. And only Baby if he is not slumping can have an edge on Fantasy TvT. So if Fanta/Bisu/Best don't fail to deliver and fail zergs can get a win, it's gonna be easier than vs CJ.
I really CJ was our hardest opponent, both because of their players and their coach.
Wemade relies on its terran line Skt has a strong protoss line.
PvT imba dictates SKT has this easy. Wemade has no zergs good enough to snipe Bisu and Best (Bests PvZ is actually very good if he doesn't lose his first 5 corsairs). I'll quote myself when I'm right
On July 20 2010 23:03 Zona wrote: So, when you disagree with a statement that comes with ample evidence and reasoning to support it, you may want to consider if you can actually find fault with any of the supporting reasoning provided. Or, it may be in fact that your viewpoint is flawed. Take for example, such amazingly well thought out counterarguments by CJ supporters, who all were unable to actually attack the meat of my well presented argument.
Actually, to be honest, I really was quite disappointed by the lack of posters pointing out the real weaknesses in the arguments presented, which I am personally aware of, being the author of the piece. Only "Best really isn't that good" actually came up, while some of the other flimsy arguments remain untouched (although at least one of the real weaknesses was glaringly exposed in the series with cJ).
Well Zona the thing with these threads is that they're hype threads. They overvalue everyone and are just there to generate hype. Don't expect any reasonable arguments from this any more than you would from a toronto raptors season tickets commercial
I think T1 are the favorites. they have two players who can potentially beat flash. Flash is the favorite in any game, no doubt. But after Jaedong, who's not in the playoffs, T1 probably has the next two. Next would be effort, but my god, how good can he really be if his coach doesn't trust him enough to put him in an ace match (unforgivable decision by the CJ coach).
T1 have 3 A class players; their top 3 are better than any other top 3 and it takes 3 wins to go to ace match. T1 is actually worse than last year (when Canata was good) but I expect them to win anyway.
On July 22 2010 13:51 SubtleArt wrote: Wemade relies on its terran line Skt has a strong protoss line.
PvT imba dictates SKT has this easy. Wemade has no zergs good enough to snipe Bisu and Best (Bests PvZ is actually very good if he doesn't lose his first 5 corsairs). I'll quote myself when I'm right
Are you really saying Shine couldnt beat Best or Bisu...?
On July 22 2010 13:55 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I think T1 are the favorites. they have two players who can potentially beat flash. Flash is the favorite in any game, no doubt. But after Jaedong, who's not in the playoffs, T1 probably has the next two. Next would be effort, but my god, how good can he really be if his coach doesn't trust him enough to put him in an ace match (unforgivable decision by the CJ coach).
T1 have 3 A class players; their top 3 are better than any other top 3 and it takes 3 wins to go to ace match. T1 is actually worse than last year (when Canata was good) but I expect them to win anyway.
Flash isnt that scary of an opponent anymore. The last two months clearly showed everyone hes far from unbeatable...
On July 22 2010 13:55 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I think T1 are the favorites. they have two players who can potentially beat flash. Flash is the favorite in any game, no doubt. But after Jaedong, who's not in the playoffs, T1 probably has the next two. Next would be effort, but my god, how good can he really be if his coach doesn't trust him enough to put him in an ace match (unforgivable decision by the CJ coach).
T1 have 3 A class players; their top 3 are better than any other top 3 and it takes 3 wins to go to ace match. T1 is actually worse than last year (when Canata was good) but I expect them to win anyway.
Tbh KT's top 3 can be argued to be better by Elo. Surprising eh?
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
The best thing about T1 is that despite people saying they enjoy our sweet tears, they QQ harder when we win than we do when we lose.
On July 22 2010 13:51 SubtleArt wrote: Wemade relies on its terran line Skt has a strong protoss line.
PvT imba dictates SKT has this easy. Wemade has no zergs good enough to snipe Bisu and Best (Bests PvZ is actually very good if he doesn't lose his first 5 corsairs). I'll quote myself when I'm right
Are you really saying Shine couldnt beat Best or Bisu...?
On July 22 2010 13:55 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I think T1 are the favorites. they have two players who can potentially beat flash. Flash is the favorite in any game, no doubt. But after Jaedong, who's not in the playoffs, T1 probably has the next two. Next would be effort, but my god, how good can he really be if his coach doesn't trust him enough to put him in an ace match (unforgivable decision by the CJ coach).
T1 have 3 A class players; their top 3 are better than any other top 3 and it takes 3 wins to go to ace match. T1 is actually worse than last year (when Canata was good) but I expect them to win anyway.
Flash isnt that scary of an opponent anymore. The last two months clearly showed everyone hes far from unbeatable...
The way bisus been playing recently, shine has a very very slim chance. Best's PvZ is obviously always a liability but I would still give him a better chance than shine
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
nah more like
fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro
twice. and the games won't even be close.
Awkward question: How did SKT Zergs do in the last round of playoffs?
lol i was watching vids of BeSt playing in 2008, and while his PvP was the omgsh godmode, his PvZ is laughable in that any air units he gets get completely annihilated. Back to the point, SKT1 do not need to rely on their Zerg players to win; they have 3 strong players, Best, Bisu and Fantasy, who are all on form at the moment; Bisu has won his last 9, Fantasy was raping in PL, and Best has won 7 of his last 10, including a PvZ. If they can pull wins out of their hats, a win by one of their Zerg players will be more of a pleasant bonus rather than a vital necessity, unlike Oz in 2009, where Jaedong and some other guy plx pl0x win and ace Jaedong win. Here, SKT have all the foundations to take it to ace, and whether they can win a 4th or not before ace is subjective. SKT's Zerg lineup is actually quite good at anything but ZvT. Hyuk has beaten Jaedong and Effort in ZvZ, with some seriously sick muta micro, and it's obvious that that matchup is his strength. s2 can win some games, but all SKT need to do with their Zerg players is anticipate a game where a Terran will not be sent out, and play a Zerg. Against WeMade FOX, this will be very difficult. Best is quite favored to win his games, having very good PvT (60%+), whereas Fantasy should also win. Bisu is a bit of a wild card; he has shown great PvT, but his form is still in 'cocoon' phase so it'll be hard to tell. I think every day will go to Ace, because WeMade has a Terran lineup notorious for being Zerg killers (Nada, Mind, Baby, Midas?) and they are deep enough to keep a strong lineup going until an ace, unlike CJ who had to field BByong due to their lack of other options. Therefore, WeMade will probably be the biggest test of SKT1; if either of their 3 aces drops a game, they're automatically in some seriously deep shit.
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
nah more like
fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro
twice. and the games won't even be close.
Awkward question: How did SKT Zergs do in the last round of playoffs?
Absolutely terrible, in terms of results. I kind of fast-forwarded big chunks of the ZvZs since they are so boring to watch, so I can't tell if their play was terrible or they just happened to play against really good opponents (for instance, Snow > Soo on day 1 was largely thanks to very inspired play from Snow).
After slugging it out with CJ and standing tall, I don't see anyone with the depth that they have. Hopefully the strong Terran out there won't give them too much trouble- Light, Sea and Flash.
I think their success will be directly related to how well the can slay Terrans. Fantasy, Best and Bisu need to be able to clean house in their vT matchups and SKT1 should be able to take this home (again).
On July 23 2010 14:10 cursor wrote: After slugging it out with CJ and standing tall, I don't see anyone with the depth that they have. Hopefully the strong Terran out there won't give them too much trouble- Light, Sea and Flash.
I think their success will be directly related to how well the can slay Terrans. Fantasy, Best and Bisu need to be able to clean house in their vT matchups and SKT1 should be able to take this home (again).
On July 23 2010 14:10 cursor wrote: After slugging it out with CJ and standing tall, I don't see anyone with the depth that they have. Hopefully the strong Terran out there won't give them too much trouble- Light, Sea and Flash.
I think their success will be directly related to how well the can slay Terrans. Fantasy, Best and Bisu need to be able to clean house in their vT matchups and SKT1 should be able to take this home (again).
They have a good protoss line, so it should be no prob.
I've been a SKT "fan" since their creation in 2004 when you essentially picked your side between them and KTF. Although my interest in team leagues has waned since then I still always cheer for SKT.
Shine can snipe Bisu though. He's done it in the past. Only "snipe" I worry about. Roro could snipe BeSt also, but they have to save at least one of the zergs for a zerg map or risk losing one of their top players to s2 or Hyuk.
On July 23 2010 14:01 nuke_rush wrote: lol i was watching vids of BeSt playing in 2008, and while his PvP was the omgsh godmode, his PvZ is laughable in that any air units he gets get completely annihilated. Back to the point, SKT1 do not need to rely on their Zerg players to win; they have 3 strong players, Best, Bisu and Fantasy, who are all on form at the moment; Bisu has won his last 9, Fantasy was raping in PL, and Best has won 7 of his last 10, including a PvZ. If they can pull wins out of their hats, a win by one of their Zerg players will be more of a pleasant bonus rather than a vital necessity, unlike Oz in 2009, where Jaedong and some other guy plx pl0x win and ace Jaedong win. Here, SKT have all the foundations to take it to ace, and whether they can win a 4th or not before ace is subjective. SKT's Zerg lineup is actually quite good at anything but ZvT. Hyuk has beaten Jaedong and Effort in ZvZ, with some seriously sick muta micro, and it's obvious that that matchup is his strength. s2 can win some games, but all SKT need to do with their Zerg players is anticipate a game where a Terran will not be sent out, and play a Zerg. Against WeMade FOX, this will be very difficult. Best is quite favored to win his games, having very good PvT (60%+), whereas Fantasy should also win. Bisu is a bit of a wild card; he has shown great PvT, but his form is still in 'cocoon' phase so it'll be hard to tell. I think every day will go to Ace, because WeMade has a Terran lineup notorious for being Zerg killers (Nada, Mind, Baby, Midas?) and they are deep enough to keep a strong lineup going until an ace, unlike CJ who had to field BByong due to their lack of other options. Therefore, WeMade will probably be the biggest test of SKT1; if either of their 3 aces drops a game, they're automatically in some seriously deep shit.
SKT zergs have gone 1-7 so far, their only win coming from a ZvT. All their losses come from ZvZs and ZvPs.
So no, skt zergs are not good once again. They have to fear all three matchups.
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
nah more like
fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro
twice. and the games won't even be close.
Awkward question: How did SKT Zergs do in the last round of playoffs?
Absolutely terrible, in terms of results. I kind of fast-forwarded big chunks of the ZvZs since they are so boring to watch, so I can't tell if their play was terrible or they just happened to play against really good opponents (for instance, Snow > Soo on day 1 was largely thanks to very inspired play from Snow).
I'm quite aware they went 1-7. I just wanted to see jalstar say it.
On July 23 2010 14:10 cursor wrote: After slugging it out with CJ and standing tall, I don't see anyone with the depth that they have. Hopefully the strong Terran out there won't give them too much trouble- Light, Sea and Flash.
I think their success will be directly related to how well the can slay Terrans. Fantasy, Best and Bisu need to be able to clean house in their vT matchups and SKT1 should be able to take this home (again).
Depth? The current SKT? If we take off the fan-tinged glasses, the match vs CJ showed that SKT's zergs are not playoff caliber, and Canata is no longer the player he used to be. The protosses won the series vs CJ, everyone else just contributed 1 or 2 wins a day.
Both the SKT terrans and zergs will likely have a better time vs WeMade, but the series vs CJ did NOT exhibit SKT's depth - in fact it did just the opposite, with the team's heavy reliance on the two star protosses.
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
nah more like
fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro
twice. and the games won't even be close.
Awkward question: How did SKT Zergs do in the last round of playoffs?
Absolutely terrible, in terms of results. I kind of fast-forwarded big chunks of the ZvZs since they are so boring to watch, so I can't tell if their play was terrible or they just happened to play against really good opponents (for instance, Snow > Soo on day 1 was largely thanks to very inspired play from Snow).
I'm quite aware they went 1-7. I just wanted to see jalstar say it.
Everyone on CJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shine and Roro
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
nah more like
fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro
twice. and the games won't even be close.
Awkward question: How did SKT Zergs do in the last round of playoffs?
Absolutely terrible, in terms of results. I kind of fast-forwarded big chunks of the ZvZs since they are so boring to watch, so I can't tell if their play was terrible or they just happened to play against really good opponents (for instance, Snow > Soo on day 1 was largely thanks to very inspired play from Snow).
Both of Hyuk's zvz's he was a build order disadvantage, and so he couldn't really be expected to win in those situations, but his decision making vs. Effort was poor which did not aid him being behind already. S2 choked in his zvzs as well, though his muta micro against Iris was pretty nice (but Iris played poorly that game as well).
Soo is terrible, no one expects anything out of soo. Even the match where SKT 3:0 some team with zergs only, soo's win was noticeably the least clean game.
While Roro is pretty good at zvz, Wemade really doesn't have a zvzer of Effort's caliber, so I see the SKT zergs doing much better this time round, particularly in zvz. Then again, they are slumping and anything can happen in zvz so who knows.
On July 21 2010 07:45 Slow Motion wrote: Bring it. NaDa vs. Boxer, iloveoov vs. Midas. Fight!
I love how T1 fans are completely writing us off and talking about KTF already. The best thing about T1 is that when you crush their dreams you get to enjoy the sweet tears of 1000's of fanboys.
nah more like
fantasy > Pure Bisu > Baby BeSt > Mind SKT Zergs > Shine/Roro
twice. and the games won't even be close.
Awkward question: How did SKT Zergs do in the last round of playoffs?
Absolutely terrible, in terms of results. I kind of fast-forwarded big chunks of the ZvZs since they are so boring to watch, so I can't tell if their play was terrible or they just happened to play against really good opponents (for instance, Snow > Soo on day 1 was largely thanks to very inspired play from Snow).
I'm quite aware they went 1-7. I just wanted to see jalstar say it.
Everyone on CJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shine and Roro
Shine and Roro are definitely better than Hydra in ZvP and Roros ZvT is as good as Hydras.
KT for the win!! i hope SKT makes it to the finals to lose to KT, it would be justice for that team. all those years of coming in second.... break the curse~~
On July 24 2010 22:29 Adr4melecH wrote: Hi guys,I'm new to bw in general.
I've watch recent Proleague VODs of SKT and I think they're awesome so I hope they'll take champ spot.
also, SKT FIGHTING!!!
Welcome to the SKT fan house !!! Hey you're from Thailand ? Cool. There is a secret Starcraft master in Thailand that taught Bisu how to play Protoss back in 2007, do you know who he is ?
On July 24 2010 21:32 Garaman wrote: KT for the win!! i hope SKT makes it to the finals to lose to KT, it would be justice for that team. all those years of coming in second.... break the curse~~
"Justice"? What kind of world do you live in where perennial losers "deserve" to win? Plus the world isn't about "justice", it's about dominance - and KT's going down yet again.
On July 24 2010 21:32 dukethegold wrote: SKT v.s. CJ was the real semi-final, bro.
The rest is just a walk in the park.
On July 24 2010 23:57 vance wrote: Love the way people completely ignore STX, lol.
Everyone here is totally delusional and are totally ignoring an excellent analyst report on why STX may win proleague.
STX has Hero, Kal, Shuttle, Calm. If those guys show up, which they haven't pretty much all last season, T1 will have a hard time. STX didn't get second for no reason. MBC got to place high due to Light hitting the most impressive performance of the year @ WL imo. STX's placement was a very nice team effort with everyone throwing in wins behind Kal and Calm. If STX plays the way they have been, it should be easy, but with such a huge break for them, they could come back out sharpened and deadly. It's not like no one is watching T1. They have the disadvantage of showing the plays pre-meeting. THEN, there is still KT to handle. I mean, laugh all you want but even Tempest, 815/Firefist/Hoejja can beat our zergs. They have a lot of zergs for Best. We have a slightly stronger top 3 since Violet's form has been off. Stats is still new and his rather plain decisions in games show, but he's smart and manages games usually very cleanly. And ofc, they built this on the support of the #1 player... I think it will be really hard to beat KT two days in a row. Lifting the trophy is still a far ways off but I think we can say WeMade is ez brzy dead.
Actually got a lot more worried after CJ gave us such a hard time, because tbh, I didn't expect it. I thought our zergs were stronger than what they showed. Was pretty disappointing.
On July 25 2010 01:35 SuperJongMan wrote: STX has Hero, Kal, Shuttle, Calm. If those guys show up, which they haven't pretty much all last season, T1 will have a hard time. STX didn't get second for no reason. MBC got to place high due to Light hitting the most impressive performance of the year @ WL imo. STX's placement was a very nice team effort with everyone throwing in wins behind Kal and Calm. If STX plays the way they have been, it should be easy, but with such a huge break for them, they could come back out sharpened and deadly. It's not like no one is watching T1. They have the disadvantage of showing the plays pre-meeting. THEN, there is still KT to handle. I mean, laugh all you want but even Tempest, 815/Firefist/Hoejja can beat our zergs. They have a lot of zergs for Best. We have a slightly stronger top 3 since Violet's form has been off. Stats is still new and his rather plain decisions in games show, but he's smart and manages games usually very cleanly. And ofc, they built this on the support of the #1 player... I think it will be really hard to beat KT two days in a row. Lifting the trophy is still a far ways off but I think we can say WeMade is ez brzy dead.
Actually got a lot more worried after CJ gave us such a hard time, because tbh, I didn't expect it. I thought our zergs were stronger than what they showed. Was pretty disappointing.
Kal and Shuttle are Protoss, and almoust all the SKT players, even Zergs, are quite good against protoss (minus Canata offcourse). Hero is not too consistent player and he could be taken down by anyone, even Canata (sadly, he is able to unexpected snipe of f.e. Fantasy or Best too). Calm alias Clam is just poorer version of Fantasy- his many weaknesses are compensated by decent strats plus he is one of a few thinking Zergs. He could be dangerous as well as be taken down by anyone. In short, STX lacks some stability in many ways, so I think that SKT would be a favorite unless some of SKT core players get slump.
KTF is much more dangerous IMHO and I'm gonna be worried if SKT will get to the final.
STX's fight comes down to.. in my head... Who can Frozen snipe? None of our aces cept Bisu LOL! Kal can beat anyone. Clam can beat anyone.. 30% of the time! LOL! And Hero would probably be a scary draw for the P's. Shuttle vs Fantasy could be a nightmare. There are still enough unfavorable match ups that STX pose a threat. But then I saw the MSL games and loL~ looks good man looks good.
Plus, are Best and Bisu gonna go undefeated all post season? Doubt it... a loss has to hit somewhere.
On July 25 2010 02:11 Cheeseburgered wrote: the only reason SKT does good is because they have 2 good protosses and they are rich
?? That's like saying KT only does well because they have Flash and Stats, Hwaseung only does well because they have Hiya and JD, or CJ only does well because of Effort and Snow. Of course a team's fortunes depends a lot on their aces.
Plus, as to "being rich" - a few of the other team sponsors have a lot more money than SK Telecom/SK Holdings does - like CJ.
On July 26 2010 02:02 cascades wrote: I am worried about Bisu's PvT. He needs to fix it up fast for ace games against Flash/CuteAngel.
as long as he sticks to arbiters and storm, then he will be fine, since his carrier play never been his strong side. I've mixed feelings about SKT1, on one hand I'd love an epic final between KT and SKT1, one the other I'd love that they epic failed and Bisu got wtfpwned by.Hero. (Those 2 allways produced great games anyways :p). Now that WMF cant make it I actually find myself root for SKT1 since Calm is slumping this hardcore + Show Spoiler +
(watch him fail a cheese vs Stats in the msl <3)
Dont get me wrong, I hate SKT1. But I love KT beating em even more.
If this gets to Ace match, I would be really worried for SKT. Unless the Ace match is on NHR or something P favored map against T, we're pretty much looking at a Fantasy vs Flash.. which is not favorable at all. Not to mention, Stats is a very viable snipe vs Fantasy :\
On August 01 2010 17:01 ArvickHero wrote: If this gets to Ace match, I would be really worried for SKT. Unless the Ace match is on NHR or something P favored map against T, we're pretty much looking at a Fantasy vs Flash.. which is not favorable at all. Not to mention, Stats is a very viable snipe vs Fantasy :\
Stats is no better a snipe vs Fantasy than Best is against Flash. Not to mention that it's not really a snipe when TvP is Fantasy's best matchup.
On August 01 2010 17:01 ArvickHero wrote: If this gets to Ace match, I would be really worried for SKT. Unless the Ace match is on NHR or something P favored map against T, we're pretty much looking at a Fantasy vs Flash.. which is not favorable at all. Not to mention, Stats is a very viable snipe vs Fantasy :\
Stats is no better a snipe vs Fantasy than Best is against Flash. Not to mention that it's not really a snipe when TvP is Fantasy's best matchup.
Well while Flash is a GOD at TvP, Fantasy I believe is actually quite vulnerable in the match up. Like today, he got really really lucky with Kal's overaggression, when those 2 Reavers probably would've made the difference at 10. Stats from what I have seen is very good at PvT, good enough to break Fantasy at least.
On August 01 2010 17:01 ArvickHero wrote: If this gets to Ace match, I would be really worried for SKT. Unless the Ace match is on NHR or something P favored map against T, we're pretty much looking at a Fantasy vs Flash.. which is not favorable at all. Not to mention, Stats is a very viable snipe vs Fantasy :\
Stats is no better a snipe vs Fantasy than Best is against Flash. Not to mention that it's not really a snipe when TvP is Fantasy's best matchup.
Well while Flash is a GOD at TvP, Fantasy I believe is actually quite vulnerable in the match up. Like today, he got really really lucky with Kal's overaggression, when those 2 Reavers probably would've made the difference at 10. Stats from what I have seen is very good at PvT, good enough to break Fantasy at least.
On August 01 2010 17:01 ArvickHero wrote: If this gets to Ace match, I would be really worried for SKT. Unless the Ace match is on NHR or something P favored map against T, we're pretty much looking at a Fantasy vs Flash.. which is not favorable at all. Not to mention, Stats is a very viable snipe vs Fantasy :\
Stats is no better a snipe vs Fantasy than Best is against Flash. Not to mention that it's not really a snipe when TvP is Fantasy's best matchup.
Well while Flash is a GOD at TvP, Fantasy I believe is actually quite vulnerable in the match up. Like today, he got really really lucky with Kal's overaggression, when those 2 Reavers probably would've made the difference at 10. Stats from what I have seen is very good at PvT, good enough to break Fantasy at least.
Fantasy is only the 2nd best player at TvP.
i suspect sea.really may be better... also how can one so good at TvP produce a near-S-class teammate who fails at PvT!?
On August 01 2010 17:01 ArvickHero wrote: If this gets to Ace match, I would be really worried for SKT. Unless the Ace match is on NHR or something P favored map against T, we're pretty much looking at a Fantasy vs Flash.. which is not favorable at all. Not to mention, Stats is a very viable snipe vs Fantasy :\
Stats is no better a snipe vs Fantasy than Best is against Flash. Not to mention that it's not really a snipe when TvP is Fantasy's best matchup.
Well while Flash is a GOD at TvP, Fantasy I believe is actually quite vulnerable in the match up. Like today, he got really really lucky with Kal's overaggression, when those 2 Reavers probably would've made the difference at 10. Stats from what I have seen is very good at PvT, good enough to break Fantasy at least.
Fantasy is only the 2nd best player at TvP.
i suspect sea.really may be better... also how can one so good at TvP produce a near-S-class teammate who fails at PvT!?
-_- tell that to Jaedong and his failed teammates. By logic, Hiya must be S-class in TvZ, Backho would be a PvZ beast and Killer would actually kill something.
On August 01 2010 17:01 ArvickHero wrote: If this gets to Ace match, I would be really worried for SKT. Unless the Ace match is on NHR or something P favored map against T, we're pretty much looking at a Fantasy vs Flash.. which is not favorable at all. Not to mention, Stats is a very viable snipe vs Fantasy :\
Stats is no better a snipe vs Fantasy than Best is against Flash. Not to mention that it's not really a snipe when TvP is Fantasy's best matchup.
Well while Flash is a GOD at TvP, Fantasy I believe is actually quite vulnerable in the match up. Like today, he got really really lucky with Kal's overaggression, when those 2 Reavers probably would've made the difference at 10. Stats from what I have seen is very good at PvT, good enough to break Fantasy at least.
Flash's TvP is better than Fantasy's TvP, but Best's PvT is also better than Stats' PvT.
On August 02 2010 07:55 SkyLegenD wrote: SKT is the only well-rounded team out there. SKT Fighting~
how can you say this with a straight face when their zerg lineup is what it is?
You can't have a team with all 3 S/A class races. T1 zergs sure have been failing left and right, but hey they turned clutch-mode when needed, and i think that's all we could ask for given that they were the weakest race in the team.
On August 02 2010 11:20 nayumi wrote: T1 zergs sure have been failing left and right, but hey they turned clutch-mode when needed, and i think that's all we could ask for given that they were the weakest race in the team.
Like when Hyuk beat Jaedong last year. I about died when that happened. No really, I was eating ramen and i started choking on it while i was watching the game.
yep skt1 wins proleague get had to get thru all these teams that we're in the way, but in the end, they will win, like they always do god damn KT is just sitting there waiting for the finals and they will lose This is because SKT1 has to win the majority of the proleagues. If they haven't won one in recent memory, you can bet ur ass they are going to win the next one
On August 02 2010 11:20 nayumi wrote: T1 zergs sure have been failing left and right, but hey they turned clutch-mode when needed, and i think that's all we could ask for given that they were the weakest race in the team.
Like when Hyuk beat Jaedong last year. I about died when that happened. No really, I was eating ramen and i started choking on it while i was watching the game.
I don't eat during SPL Grand Finals because of that. Epic moments choke your ass off =(
On August 02 2010 14:29 Simplistik wrote: s2 is actually better than people give him credit for, Hyuk and Soo on the other hand...
Hyuk was clutch at ZvZ last playoffs and was (somewhat) decent overall. But as he developed his ZvP skills this year his ZvZ ability drained away somehow. The other two zergs still consider him the "zerg leader", setting the way for them. s2 has indeed been performing best lately.
They still need to grow a lot more - unusual situations really faze them and they completely fall apart then. But considering their growth up til now, it's possible they can do even better next year. Or maybe they'll hit the limits of their potential and that'll be that.
On August 02 2010 14:29 Simplistik wrote: s2 is actually better than people give him credit for, Hyuk and Soo on the other hand...
Hyuk was clutch at ZvZ last playoffs and was (somewhat) decent overall. But as he developed his ZvP skills this year his ZvZ ability drained away somehow. The other two zergs still consider him the "zerg leader", setting the way for them. s2 has indeed been performing best lately.
They still need to grow a lot more - unusual situations really faze them and they completely fall apart then. But considering their growth up til now, it's possible they can do even better next year. Or maybe they'll hit the limits of their potential and that'll be that.
Hyuk is too old, and can start playing mentor already. S2 is definitely their best bet for having a stable player in their roster that can contribute regularly IMO.
KT man KT they have 1 awesome player and 3 middle man the rest are unknown.. or 4 poolers.. dam you firefist KT has no way out of the Deep lineup of SKT if only 1 zerg wins KT are over 0-4 Go SKT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On August 02 2010 14:29 Simplistik wrote: s2 is actually better than people give him credit for, Hyuk and Soo on the other hand...
Hyuk was clutch at ZvZ last playoffs and was (somewhat) decent overall. But as he developed his ZvP skills this year his ZvZ ability drained away somehow. The other two zergs still consider him the "zerg leader", setting the way for them. s2 has indeed been performing best lately.
They still need to grow a lot more - unusual situations really faze them and they completely fall apart then. But considering their growth up til now, it's possible they can do even better next year. Or maybe they'll hit the limits of their potential and that'll be that.
Hyuk is too old, and can start playing mentor already. S2 is definitely their best bet for having a stable player in their roster that can contribute regularly IMO.
I don't entirely agree with this statement, but it's still depressing to read. Only 23 years old and already considered too old for the game. What a career.
On August 02 2010 14:29 Simplistik wrote: s2 is actually better than people give him credit for, Hyuk and Soo on the other hand...
Hyuk was clutch at ZvZ last playoffs and was (somewhat) decent overall. But as he developed his ZvP skills this year his ZvZ ability drained away somehow. The other two zergs still consider him the "zerg leader", setting the way for them. s2 has indeed been performing best lately.
They still need to grow a lot more - unusual situations really faze them and they completely fall apart then. But considering their growth up til now, it's possible they can do even better next year. Or maybe they'll hit the limits of their potential and that'll be that.
Hyuk is too old, and can start playing mentor already. S2 is definitely their best bet for having a stable player in their roster that can contribute regularly IMO.
I don't entirely agree with this statement, but it's still depressing to read. Only 23 years old and already considered too old for the game. What a career.
He's been like, playing since he was sixteen? (he's been playing since 2002-2003 right?), and been in televised matches for at least three years (even 4 if you count that one appearance back in 2006). He's good when he puts everything together, but he's very very inconsistent IMO. Too bad because when he does put everything together, he's an A-class early to mid-game monster. Unfortunately he has no end-game to speak of. But he's ALWAYS been there for the team, and he does provide the best entertainment (Hyukhyukhyuk~! ) Only problem I have with him is his nerves despite having been in the scene for SO LONG; still <3 him though.
Bah. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Kim Carrier nowadays simply calls who the underdog is, like his "curse" call on Effort > Flash which happened to come true as Effort was better prepared with mindgames and superior strategies.
But in any case Kim Carrier is simply acknowledging like any informed pro-BW observer that SKT T1 is favored to win.
granted skt's momentum is quite strong, and they may be the more likely winner, but it's gonna be extremely close. The match could really turn either way, and if goes to ace KT will win I think.
On August 07 2010 12:39 Zona wrote: Bah. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Kim Carrier nowadays simply calls who the underdog is, like his "curse" call on Effort > Flash which happened to come true as Effort was better prepared with mindgames and superior strategies.
But in any case Kim Carrier is simply acknowledging like any informed pro-BW observer that SKT T1 is favored to win.
I hope you got the point of my post. It was not realistic; it was just sarcastic humor to get ourselves going. Just like many, MANY other posts on this thread.
On August 07 2010 22:56 n0xi3 wrote: I really think T1 is going to come away with this. But we will see, I am sure a ton of stuff can happen. Great writeup man!
I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back.
KT players played phenominal games and unaffected by the pressure whereas I think s2 and CantaplayanythingbutTvT. I was most impressed with Stats and Tempest. I didn't think Stats would be able to beat Bisu but then Bisu did his stupid DT opening and I already made it 2-2 tie when I saw the fail snipe of Tempest. But then s2, just got outplayed and SKT1 was put into a hole.
What I learned, Fantasy is clutch. When the game matters (elimination, ace match), Fantasy is 5-0. He's the clear ace of this team in my book now and was upset we didn't get to see Flash v Fantasy ace match. BeSt is by far the best PvT player in the game. I say better than Stork right now.
And Flash is one tough son of a gun. Most Terrans after losing all those goliaths to mutas would have panicked and fallen apart, but then he remember the Zerg was HyuK.
SKT1 Zergs are a flash in the pan. The success in round 5 I think is solely on unpredictability. None of the teams were expecting 3 zergs from SKT1 and hardly practiced/studied against such styles.
Finally, Protoss is the most imba race in Broodwar. For some reason, they cannot win a BO5 Starleague, but I guarantee that Protoss records in this playoff format were easily 75% or better.
This is a total failure, the team must be reformed !!!! Next year we gonna buy some new players from other teams ^^.
- SKT failzergs ? Next year we will replace Soo and Hyuk by Jaedong and EffOrt. - People always complain that we lack a second strong Terran ? Next year we will trade Canata for Flash hahaha.
So we will have Bisu-Best-Flash-Fantasy-Jaedong-Effort in the final, that way we won't even need coaches, just send them in random order and own faces hahahahaha.
On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote: I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back.
Nope, it proved nothing. Even in the winner interview, Stats stated that he specifically prepared for Bisu because it was deemed that there is a 99% chance of Bisu coming out at the 2nd set.
Bisu showed up at the predictable set and did his signature build. Stats practiced specifically to counter it. BO loss, but well played from Stats who executed it flawlessly.
It proves nothing really, other than Stats is pretty good.
On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote: I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back.
How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back?
It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form.
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote: I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back.
How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back?
It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form.
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances.
On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote: I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back.
How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back?
It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form.
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances.
Why fix whats not broken? Bisu used that build on PR many times before and won out regardless because of mechanics (and some mistakes on the opponents part).
Don't worry guys, SKT are already champions to us and to the eyes of most of us. Remember that they came out TWICE to the Grand Finals IN A ROW. Not many teams can do that and not to mention we already had a gold last year so they really don't have any bashing rights. Sure KT fans can brag but bashing, no. I'm not bashing at KT nor at KT fans but the moment someone KT bashes us, you gotta remember then how SKT first beaten 5 teams (CJ, FOX, then STX/Khan/estro) before getting to finals preparing each games less than a week then facing KT who were getting helped with 2 other teams (STX and some other team) with preparation from SKT side less than a week while KT had like 3 weeks. So none of them have right to brag about SKT sucks or how KT is superior since I clearly doubt KT can win in the same situation if they were placed 3rd, had to face CJ, FOX, STX/khan/estro then SKT being prepared with 2 other teams with 3 weeks to prepare.
So there, gg SKT. You have proven to me why I should be a SKT fan even more now. Go SKT!!!
On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote: I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back.
How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back?
It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form.
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances.
^--- This
Why is Flash, Fantasy, Jaedong, and Stork so good? They adapt their play styles now. I remember when Fantasy ALWAYS did 1 Fac Expo and his opponents destroyed him b/c he never mixed up his build. Now you see Fanta doing 2 rax openings against Zerg, 2 fac pushes on Toss, 14 cc sometimes, and now he's finally getting to that Top S class ranking because it's hard for people to predict. Remember how Bisu became S class a few years ago? New openings, different play, and the such. Now Bisu does the same opening 2 out of 3 games. And Stork is just awesome lately. Flash, he used to suck hard when he would 14 cc. It was so weird but now, he will 8 rax a toss who will 12 nexus and then do it again and then switch to 14 cc just to annoy his opponents.
Bisu is not back until his PvT gets better. He's getting crushed by every Terran in the game right now. I think he needs to practice with Fantasy more.
Flash and Fanta brought back mech play in TvZ and now everyone calls it imba.
Stork brought back the Carrier micro in PvT but Protoss is still imba
Jaedong is just the Dong who can do anything.
Bisu needs to be unpredictable and his play right now in PvT and PvP is predictable. His PvZ is the only thing I've seen where he's been mixing up timings and stuff.
And to use your argument against you, in Bisu's wins against Pure. The only reason he won was because he got Pure's army in a bad spot (small concave). So, I guess a "Flank Order" victory? Come on now.
On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote: I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back.
How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back?
It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form.
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
lol were we watching the same game? cuz I saw bisu let all of his dragoons sit through ~5 storms and watch them die, not very much micro goign on there other than him throwing his own storms out
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
lol were we watching the same game? cuz I saw bisu let all of his dragoons sit through ~5 storms and watch them die, not very much micro goign on there other than him throwing his own storms out
You should check the vods before raging on him. At the start of the battle (the initial battle): Stats had 18-20 zeals, 8-10 goons, 4 templars and 4 archons. Bisu had 18-20 goons, 4 zeals and 4 templars.
Stats had about 8-10 zeals reinforcing his troops. Bisu had about 1-2 zeals or no reinforcement.
Bisu managed to defend the initial attack and the reinforcement. His storm killed templars and at the end (of the initial battle) he still had > 12 goons and 1 templars, while stats had 6 goons and 3 archons and 9-11 zeals (no templars). That was a lot of kills considering the guy with superior number of troops often captivates in this advantage and kill much more than the guys with inferior numbers. And there were not "5 storms" on Bisu goons, there were a lot of storms in front of Bisu goons because there were a mass of Stats zealots there, those storms killed 6 goons but the number of zealots dead is much more than that (Stats templars and 2 goons also died from Bisu's storms and zeals).
If this was a battle with equal force, Stats would not have a chance (unless he is Best and can reinforce with hordes of units). Bisu clearly demonstrated this ability to win battle against superior or equal forces many times in the playoff, but I suppose you didn't watch them because you clearly demonstrated your hate toward him in your post loool.
On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote: I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back.
How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back?
It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form.
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances.
Why fix whats not broken? Bisu used that build on PR many times before and won out regardless because of mechanics (and some mistakes on the opponents part).
You fix what is not broken because otherwise you are predictable and therefore you get crushed by any well prepared opponent.
On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote: I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back.
How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back?
It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form.
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances.
Why fix whats not broken? Bisu used that build on PR many times before and won out regardless because of mechanics (and some mistakes on the opponents part).
lol skt fanboys. bisu clearly needed not to do the same thing every damn game
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
lol were we watching the same game? cuz I saw bisu let all of his dragoons sit through ~5 storms and watch them die, not very much micro goign on there other than him throwing his own storms out
You should check the vods before raging on him. At the start of the battle (the initial battle): Stats had 18-20 zeals, 8-10 goons, 4 templars and 4 archons. Bisu had 18-20 goons, 4 zeals and 4 templars.
Stats had about 8-10 zeals reinforcing his troops. Bisu had about 1-2 zeals or no reinforcement.
Bisu managed to defend the initial attack and the reinforcement. His storm killed templars and at the end (of the initial battle) he still had > 12 goons and 1 templars, while stats had 6 goons and 3 archons and 9-11 zeals (no templars). That was a lot of kills considering the guy with superior number of troops often captivates in this advantage and kill much more than the guys with inferior numbers. And there were not "5 storms" on Bisu goons, there were a lot of storms in front of Bisu goons because there were a mass of Stats zealots there, those storms killed 6 goons but the number of zealots dead is much more than that (Stats templars and 2 goons also died from Bisu's storms and zeals).
If this was a battle with equal force, Stats would not have a chance (unless he is Best and can reinforce with hordes of units). Bisu clearly demonstrated this ability to win battle against superior or equal forces many times in the playoff, but I suppose you didn't watch them because you clearly demonstrated your hate toward him in your post loool.
The fact that Stats is numerically superior outweighs the fact that he needs to micro. If they had equal troop count then maybe Stats will micro decently? Have you even seen Stat's sexy goon micro in front of Bisu's natural, dancing, taunting Bisu's goons and making him waste storms?
If this was a battle with equal force, Stats would not have a chance (unless he is Best and can reinforce with hordes of units). Bisu clearly demonstrated this ability to win battle against superior or equal forces many times in the playoff, but I suppose you didn't watch them because you clearly demonstrated your hate toward him in your post loool.
Or maybe stats didn't even need to micro because he had such a huge army advantage? Wow way to judge him.
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
lol were we watching the same game? cuz I saw bisu let all of his dragoons sit through ~5 storms and watch them die, not very much micro goign on there other than him throwing his own storms out
You should check the vods before raging on him. At the start of the battle (the initial battle): Stats had 18-20 zeals, 8-10 goons, 4 templars and 4 archons. Bisu had 18-20 goons, 4 zeals and 4 templars.
Stats had about 8-10 zeals reinforcing his troops. Bisu had about 1-2 zeals or no reinforcement.
Bisu managed to defend the initial attack and the reinforcement. His storm killed templars and at the end (of the initial battle) he still had > 12 goons and 1 templars, while stats had 6 goons and 3 archons and 9-11 zeals (no templars). That was a lot of kills considering the guy with superior number of troops often captivates in this advantage and kill much more than the guys with inferior numbers. And there were not "5 storms" on Bisu goons, there were a lot of storms in front of Bisu goons because there were a mass of Stats zealots there, those storms killed 6 goons but the number of zealots dead is much more than that (Stats templars and 2 goons also died from Bisu's storms and zeals).
If this was a battle with equal force, Stats would not have a chance (unless he is Best and can reinforce with hordes of units). Bisu clearly demonstrated this ability to win battle against superior or equal forces many times in the playoff, but I suppose you didn't watch them because you clearly demonstrated your hate toward him in your post loool.
I love how you live in this fantasy land where bisu didn't have reinforcements. Bisu had 2 rounds of reinforcements by the time he GG'd. Stats reinforcements were 4 zealots and 4 templars (8 gatess)
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
lol were we watching the same game? cuz I saw bisu let all of his dragoons sit through ~5 storms and watch them die, not very much micro goign on there other than him throwing his own storms out
You should check the vods before raging on him. At the start of the battle (the initial battle): Stats had 18-20 zeals, 8-10 goons, 4 templars and 4 archons. Bisu had 18-20 goons, 4 zeals and 4 templars.
Stats had about 8-10 zeals reinforcing his troops. Bisu had about 1-2 zeals or no reinforcement.
Bisu managed to defend the initial attack and the reinforcement. His storm killed templars and at the end (of the initial battle) he still had > 12 goons and 1 templars, while stats had 6 goons and 3 archons and 9-11 zeals (no templars). That was a lot of kills considering the guy with superior number of troops often captivates in this advantage and kill much more than the guys with inferior numbers. And there were not "5 storms" on Bisu goons, there were a lot of storms in front of Bisu goons because there were a mass of Stats zealots there, those storms killed 6 goons but the number of zealots dead is much more than that (Stats templars and 2 goons also died from Bisu's storms and zeals).
If this was a battle with equal force, Stats would not have a chance (unless he is Best and can reinforce with hordes of units). Bisu clearly demonstrated this ability to win battle against superior or equal forces many times in the playoff, but I suppose you didn't watch them because you clearly demonstrated your hate toward him in your post loool.
I love how you live in this fantasy land where bisu didn't have reinforcements. Bisu had 2 rounds of reinforcements by the time he GG'd. Stats reinforcements were 4 zealots and 4 templars (8 gatess)
Bisu GG'd because Stats' army was already in position .. reinforcements is shit if they are lambs to the slaughter ..
KT studied Bisu very well and sniped him off perfectly with Stats. Of course it's also because of Bisu's predictability, which has been making him so vulnerable to lesser tier opponents. Even Kingdom mentioned this in one of his interview, that Bisu relied too much on his mechanic against lesser opponents. He just overwhelmed them with superior multitasking ability. Back then I remember Bisu's PvP was like making units, clash, came out ahead, more reinforcement, and proceed to win the game in every damn game no matter what build oder he made. Though as the game evolves, the average level of multitasking slow increases. Thus, the gap between S-class players and the rest in term of multitasking and mechanic gets smaller. One BO loss can result in a loss instantly.
That DT build was way to obvious. I was praying to God that I would see no Citadel but fuck Bisu did it anyway. I was like "Fuck even I, D- Iccup player, knew that you would go for that build Taek Young, don't you think KT could do the same, I mean seriously?"
Bisu needs to be more diversity in his play. Or he's slowly turning in to a CJ -_-. Yes his perfect multitasking is pleasant to watch, but I'd rather watch Fantasy's sloppy bio in TvZ but STILL comes out ahead in the end (on a side note, has it occurred to anyone that Fantasy's sloppiness might have confused his opponents somehow? lol), than silly losses due to obvious snipes.
P/S: not to take away any credit from Stats and KT, they played really well during the grand finals and deserve the title. Congratulations, but next year we'll claim back what is rightfully ours!
On August 09 2010 10:01 aimaimaim wrote: fanboys will be fanboys ..
Blame canata for not doing what he did .. many years in the scene, he should have done something better ..
blame bisu for his predictable BO ..
<3 hyuk for putting up a great last fight .. what he needs is decision making .. and moar scourge ..
scourge for wut? flashes vessels were chilling behind 9078139 turrets but meh. once he did snipe vessels when flash was pushing out, the vessels were the least of hyuk's worries
canata for the "worst proxy of the year" award maybe?
On August 09 2010 10:01 aimaimaim wrote: fanboys will be fanboys ..
Blame canata for not doing what he did .. many years in the scene, he should have done something better ..
blame bisu for his predictable BO ..
<3 hyuk for putting up a great last fight .. what he needs is decision making .. and moar scourge ..
scourge for wut? flashes vessels were chilling behind 9078139 turrets but meh. once he did snipe vessels when flash was pushing out, the vessels were the least of hyuk's worries
canata for the "worst proxy of the year" award maybe?
lol still that game could have gone a different way if he had scourge with his army of mutas ..
KT just read SKT like a book in game 1 - 3 .. they read best but still he was too much for Forgg lol
On August 09 2010 09:59 TwoToneTerran wrote: [I love how you live in this fantasy land where bisu didn't have reinforcements. Bisu had 2 rounds of reinforcements by the time he GG'd. Stats reinforcements were 4 zealots and 4 templars (8 gatess)
I clearly stated in my post that was the initial battle . After the first battle Bisu retreated and have reinforcements but at that point there was nothing he could do, Stats had a massive horde of units closing in.
Stats reinforcements were 4 zealots and 4 templars (8 gatess)
I loled at that, he had a control group of zeals as reinforcement for the initial battle, then 2 control groups of whatever it is for the next battle, then after that your "4 zealots and 4 templars".
The deciding battle is the initial battle, not the 2nd, 3rd... or whatever.
On August 09 2010 09:59 TwoToneTerran wrote: [I love how you live in this fantasy land where bisu didn't have reinforcements. Bisu had 2 rounds of reinforcements by the time he GG'd. Stats reinforcements were 4 zealots and 4 templars (8 gatess)
I clearly stated in my post that was the initial battle . After the first battle Bisu retreated and have reinforcements but at that point there was nothing he could do, Stats had a massive horde of units closing in.
Stats reinforcements were 4 zealots and 4 templars (8 gatess)
I loled at that, he had a control group of zeals as reinforcement for the initial battle, then 2 control groups of whatever it is for the next battle, then after that your "4 zealots and 4 templars".
The deciding battle is the initial battle, not the 2nd, 3rd... or whatever.
Okay so in your magical world Stats gets 3 production rounds in a fight and Bisu gets none? In that case I guess Bisu is just really bad at macro.
Incoming units means nothing if both players are macroing correctly. The only difference is if there was a previous advantage that allowed one player to obtain more funded unit producing structures, which stats had because of his early 2nd and 3rd.
edit -- basically I'm saying, both players engaged in pretty similar style: Both stormed fast and had their zealots push in after their goons/archons took a few shots (as is typical in big PvP engagements). Stats used all his storms on goons -- 5 of them. Bisu used all his on zealots and archons, which is a lot, 22 zeals and 4 archons by my count. While at the end of the fight Bisu technically came out ahead in pure supply exchange, Stats had casted all the storms he intended to with the killed templars, and lost no archons and, like, 2 goons by the time Bisu was in full retreat. A lot more zealots died because he was intentionally running them through storm and goon fire. Zealots are meatshields, that's what they do, so Stats (who over the course of the whole fight had 28 zealots if you count the first reinforcing gorup, had about 12 by the end. He lost a little over half his zealots, 2/9 goons and no archons.
Bisu, while he did get out with 10 of his original 18 goons (that I counted), and a dt and templar, he lost his 6 zeals and archon and nearly all of his goons were in the red health as the follow up showed -- most of his goons died to 1 zealot and 1 archon hit on the follow up.
Basically, Bisu's storms took out more psi by concentrating on zealots, but Stat's did more damage to the stronger units in the dragoons. They both played perfectly fine, Stats just had a much bigger army. It did look smaller than it should be by comparison but his latest production round was mostly templar whereas bisu made zealots and DTs to rush to the fight and get a few token weakened zealot kills.
On August 09 2010 10:01 aimaimaim wrote: fanboys will be fanboys ..
Blame canata for not doing what he did .. many years in the scene, he should have done something better ..
blame bisu for his predictable BO ..
<3 hyuk for putting up a great last fight .. what he needs is decision making .. and moar scourge ..
scourge for wut? flashes vessels were chilling behind 9078139 turrets but meh. once he did snipe vessels when flash was pushing out, the vessels were the least of hyuk's worries
canata for the "worst proxy of the year" award maybe?
lol still that game could have gone a different way if he had scourge with his army of mutas ..
KT just read SKT like a book in game 1 - 3 .. they read best but still he was too much for Forgg lol
Uh not really... Forgg playing a macro game against best? I think by the time Best attacked best had 200/200 and forgg had 120?
On August 09 2010 10:01 aimaimaim wrote: fanboys will be fanboys ..
Blame canata for not doing what he did .. many years in the scene, he should have done something better ..
blame bisu for his predictable BO ..
<3 hyuk for putting up a great last fight .. what he needs is decision making .. and moar scourge ..
scourge for wut? flashes vessels were chilling behind 9078139 turrets but meh. once he did snipe vessels when flash was pushing out, the vessels were the least of hyuk's worries
canata for the "worst proxy of the year" award maybe?
lol still that game could have gone a different way if he had scourge with his army of mutas ..
KT just read SKT like a book in game 1 - 3 .. they read best but still he was too much for Forgg lol
Uh not really... Forgg playing a macro game against best? I think by the time Best attacked best had 200/200 and forgg had 120?
KT could very well snipe Best with Hoejja or Firefist but they're hardcore gays and wanted to see Best naked body so ...
On August 09 2010 10:01 aimaimaim wrote: fanboys will be fanboys ..
Blame canata for not doing what he did .. many years in the scene, he should have done something better ..
blame bisu for his predictable BO ..
<3 hyuk for putting up a great last fight .. what he needs is decision making .. and moar scourge ..
scourge for wut? flashes vessels were chilling behind 9078139 turrets but meh. once he did snipe vessels when flash was pushing out, the vessels were the least of hyuk's worries
canata for the "worst proxy of the year" award maybe?
lol still that game could have gone a different way if he had scourge with his army of mutas ..
KT just read SKT like a book in game 1 - 3 .. they read best but still he was too much for Forgg lol
Uh not really... Forgg playing a macro game against best? I think by the time Best attacked best had 200/200 and forgg had 120?
Okay so in your magical world Stats gets 3 production rounds in a fight and Bisu gets none? In that case I guess Bisu is just really bad at macro.
Hey guy, plz respect those who are in a conversation with you, that behavior only makes your arguments look silly.
In the initial battle, Bisu had almost no reinforcement (1-2 zeals or goons), Stats had one round of reinforcement (that is what I stated in my 2 posts - the initial battle man)
In the follow-up battle, Bisu had 2 rounds of reinforcement, but Stats had another 2,5 control groups of reinforcement, and this battle isn't important at all, Bisu had already lost.
The later things you said in your post is true, except that you didn't count Stats's templar and one archon lost (at the start he had 4 archons, after the battle he had 3, I didn't see it die but where did it go ? ) , and Bisu had > 10 goons at the end. We must take in consideration that Bisu's force is smaller and therefore when you kill more than your opponent that demonstrated your skill - he only had that skill anyways, since his macro and build order sucked during his latest several PvP games.
On August 08 2010 05:10 d_so wrote: it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances.
Well I've been avoiding the thread since it was bound to become an argument, and it did. But I've got to say I'm tremendously disappointed that Bisu didn't mix up his opening builds, especially when the build he used did not actually provide him with an early game advantage in most of the games he played.
"refuses to adapt to circumstances" isn't a valid complaint against his opening though, since Bisu's opening build played out before scouting revealed anything that could have been a sign for Bisu to change things. The real problem was being totally predictable, which I'm not the first to state.
The thing is, if Bisu did what he did with the same builds, then mixed it up for a key game, he'd be a genius because he'd have trained his opponents to expect that build and then totally surprised them with something else. But he didn't. And there were so many builds that would have gained at least a small advantage over the build that was custom-made to counter Bisu's tired opening build.
Okay so in your magical world Stats gets 3 production rounds in a fight and Bisu gets none? In that case I guess Bisu is just really bad at macro.
Hey guy, plz respect those who are in a conversation with you, that behavior only makes your arguments look silly.
In the initial battle, Bisu had almost no reinforcement (1-2 zeals or goons), Stats had one round of reinforcement (that is what I stated in my 2 posts - the initial battle man)
In the follow-up battle, Bisu had 2 rounds of reinforcement, but Stats had another 2,5 control groups of reinforcement, and this battle isn't important at all, Bisu had already lost.
The later things you said in your post is true, except that you didn't count Stats's templar and one archon lost (at the start he had 4 archons, after the battle he had 3, I didn't see it die but where did it go ? ) , and Bisu had > 10 goons at the end. We must take in consideration that Bisu's force is smaller and therefore when you kill more than your opponent that demonstrated your skill - he only had that skill anyways, since his macro and build order sucked during his latest several PvP games.
I'm just wondering where your criticism of stats is. He did everything he should've in that engagement -- use zealots to soak up storms, use archons to counter Bisu's few zealost, and waited to engage with his goons until it was safe and they could dish out damage, whereas he used all of his storms and put a ton of damage on Bisu's units. Coupled with his obviously working macro he did no better or worse than Bisu in that engagement and it showed because he won, given the advantage he had.
Also I think you have a weird concept of control groups. Stats barely made 12 units to reinforce (1 control group), much less 2.5 being 30.
On August 09 2010 10:01 aimaimaim wrote: fanboys will be fanboys ..
Blame canata for not doing what he did .. many years in the scene, he should have done something better ..
blame bisu for his predictable BO ..
<3 hyuk for putting up a great last fight .. what he needs is decision making .. and moar scourge ..
scourge for wut? flashes vessels were chilling behind 9078139 turrets but meh. once he did snipe vessels when flash was pushing out, the vessels were the least of hyuk's worries
canata for the "worst proxy of the year" award maybe?
lol still that game could have gone a different way if he had scourge with his army of mutas ..
KT just read SKT like a book in game 1 - 3 .. they read best but still he was too much for Forgg lol
Uh not really... Forgg playing a macro game against best? I think by the time Best attacked best had 200/200 and forgg had 120?
KT could very well snipe Best with Hoejja or Firefist but they're hardcore gays and wanted to see Best naked body so ...
I think everyone at the finals wanted to see his body.
On August 10 2010 14:07 TwoToneTerran wrote: I'm just wondering where your criticism of stats is. He did everything he should've in that engagement -- use zealots to soak up storms, use archons to counter Bisu's few zealost, and waited to engage with his goons until it was safe and they could dish out damage, whereas he used all of his storms and put a ton of damage on Bisu's units.
But there was no criticism of stats in my posts, in this case what he did (more macro, less micro) was more than enough to ensure him the win (which was the right choice) and if Bisu was in Stats's position he would do the same. What I was trying to prove is Bisu's incredible ability to win battles with lesser force (in this case he didn't win because the gap was too much but he did kill more than the opponent and kill important units, which is not bad at all, considering the fact that lesser force = get more hits = more dead). Of course Stats was every way better than Bisu in that match and his win was more than deserved. If Best win against a Protoss B-teamer by running his hordes of units into enemy expos without micro at all I can't say that the B-teamer is better than Best because he micros better lol.
On August 09 2010 10:01 aimaimaim wrote: fanboys will be fanboys ..
Blame canata for not doing what he did .. many years in the scene, he should have done something better ..
blame bisu for his predictable BO ..
<3 hyuk for putting up a great last fight .. what he needs is decision making .. and moar scourge ..
scourge for wut? flashes vessels were chilling behind 9078139 turrets but meh. once he did snipe vessels when flash was pushing out, the vessels were the least of hyuk's worries
canata for the "worst proxy of the year" award maybe?
lol still that game could have gone a different way if he had scourge with his army of mutas ..
KT just read SKT like a book in game 1 - 3 .. they read best but still he was too much for Forgg lol
Uh not really... Forgg playing a macro game against best? I think by the time Best attacked best had 200/200 and forgg had 120?
I dont think that difference in food can come about in pro level matches with both playing macro style, if forgg was 120 no way best was maxed
Remember all the hope? Remember all the successive cheers as SKT1 seemed to fulfill all the fanboys dreams? Remember that?
Now keep remembering. Keep thinking. Draw your brain to that special spot, right before the first game on Heartbreak Ridge (oh how apt of a name) began, right before the moment when you saw Violet laughing in Canata's face as he saw the poor SKT Terran flailing about with a poorly executed proxy-rax, right before Bisu's first DT got perfectly deflected by Stats' observer, right before Flash crushed Hyuk like a T-800 on a human skull.
Oh wait. I'm sorry I just spoiled your daydreaming.
But the bigger question is--did you learn? Did you learn your lesson, not to predict with that premature arrogance, that you will win?
I guess not. But for your benefit, for your education, here's a bump.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6446/logobj.png)
![[image loading]](http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5915/starsde.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4914/park.png)
![[image loading]](http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9972/boxer1101908.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2271/uparrowe.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7665/074g.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2603/pimpmidas.gif)
gogo SKT1 fighting!
![[image loading]](http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3869/achievements.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/174/trollface.png)
![[image loading]](http://img59.imageshack.us/i/lol1t.jpg/)
) Only problem I have with him is his nerves despite having been in the scene for SO LONG; still <3 him though.![[image loading]](http://i36.tinypic.com/zyawx0.jpg)
