EPTMagic: The Gathering takes more skill than LoL
My view regarding Destiny's latest statements - Page 10
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preddo
United States7 Posts
Magic: The Gathering takes more skill than LoL | ||
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deathray797
196 Posts
On February 08 2012 22:10 preddo wrote: BREATHING AND TAKING OVER THE WORLD ARE EQUALLY HARD IN DIFFERENT WAYS It's all a matter of perspective. If your underwater without a snorkel/submarine/etc, I'm fairly sure that breathing is even harder than taking over the world. On February 08 2012 22:27 preddo wrote: to play SC2 competitively you need more knowledge. decision making in LoL is so fucking easy. there's always the obvious option and if you fail at understanding what it is you're just retarded. there are tons of similar abilities in LoL, but even if there weren't, it would be very easy to know all the champions if you play 1-2 times against each (as it is right now). Magic: The Gathering takes more skill than LoL I'm pretty sure you need more knowledge in LoL. LoL has more champions than SC2 has units. And decision making in SC2 is fairly easy too. Know why? They're the same. Knowing what to build/reacting to builds/different unit compositions is present in both games. Knowing when to commit to an attack and retreat is present in both games. Knowing what the units do is present in both games. Knowing how to position yourself is present in both games. All this decision making is present in both games, the only difference (not literally ofc) is that in SC2 you control everyone while in LoL you control 1 person. I dont understand why people keep bringing up these retarded arguments and don't even try to think that its so easy to just counter them | ||
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preddo
United States7 Posts
On February 08 2012 22:28 deathray797 wrote: It's all a matter of perspective. If your underwater without a snorkel/submarine/etc, I'm fairly sure that breathing is even harder than taking over the world. i think you're protecting LoL because, as you said, you're a cripple, so you can't progress any more in SC2, so you started playing LoL which takes no thinking and no skill and got very good at it because let's be honest everybody can be a pro player in LoL if he isn't retarded and is playing with friends who are not retards. now you're trying to protect LoL so you can feel good about your delusional achievement despite being a cripple. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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preddo
United States7 Posts
On February 08 2012 22:28 deathray797 wrote: It's all a matter of perspective. If your underwater without a snorkel/submarine/etc, I'm fairly sure that breathing is even harder than taking over the world. I'm pretty sure you need more knowledge in LoL. LoL has more champions than SC2 has units. And decision making in SC2 is fairly easy too. Know why? They're the same. Knowing what to build/reacting to builds/different unit compositions is present in both games. Knowing when to commit to an attack and retreat is present in both games. Knowing what the units do is present in both games. Knowing how to position yourself is present in both games. All this decision making is present in both games, the only difference (not literally ofc) is that in SC2 you control everyone while in LoL you control 1 person. I dont understand why people keep bringing up these retarded arguments and don't even try to think that its so easy to just counter them you didn't counter anything, you just pointed out things that are somewhat similar between the games, while ignoring almost all other factors that make those supposedly same decisions in sc2 much harder | ||
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Swift118
United Kingdom335 Posts
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
On February 08 2012 20:03 deathray797 wrote: Im going to post my opinions on this in a S (statement) and O (my opinion) format S: LoL needs no skill, SC2 is so hard needs so much more skill and so much more apm O: Then explain: if SC2 needs so much skill, why did I, a 15 year old kid with a disabled left hand+fingers which are very hard to move accurately, get into masters in 3 months of practicing SC2 with like 80 apm average + Show Spoiler + also I think the BW fans would like a word with you I'm not exactly sure why this is relevant. I think anyone that actually practices a game could be fairly decent at it in 3 months. The thing is, practicing LoL/HoN/Dota requires a team/teamates to actually "practice" with. Solo-queing/playing bots/etc is only going to really teach you how to perfrom the very basic mechanical requirements of the game. So, actually "practicing" a moba game is more difficult. Merely massing games will not make you better. In Sc2, you can practice build orders on an empty map and get better at it. It doesn't make it easier, or harder to play, merely easier and more convenient to practice. Whether or not this is a good or bad thing is pretty much a matter of opinion, but comparing them like you did is completely wrong. Apples, oranges. S: lol does it matter? Look at the average SC2 player apm, its 200 or higher. Average LoL apm is like 30 O: Nonono the average SC2 PRO apm is 200 or higher. The average SC2 player apm is like 50 So why aren't we comparing SC2 pro APM to LoL pro APM? Oh, right, because that makes LoL look inferior. TBH, APM means jack anyways, especially when comparing two completely different games. But saying LoL has equal mechanical skill requirements to SC2 is a completely undefendable statement, and I'm not sure why you brought it up in the first place. S: Either way in SC2 you need to know mechanics, builds, timings, how to multitask, how to scout and react and so much more shit O: In LoL you need to know 92 champions, all of their abilities (around 368 in total, not including passive), jungle spawn timings, how to counterpick, how to change your build depending on the opponent's composition, etc. Not much of an argument there All LoL requires in that list is pure memorization. I just jumped into Dota 2 about 2 months ago, and basically have their entire hero pool and item list memorized now. It's not hard at all, and you don't even have ot be remotely intelligent to do it, just pull up the wiki every once and a while and read through it. Counter-picking is as simple as playing more than 20 games and applying common sense. Oh, yeah..... slardar counters riki....sk counters brood....so hard to counter-pick, tbh, you almost have to think for a second every once in a while. Adapting a LoL build on the fly is something like...Oh shit, let me click my E skill first instead of my Q....Seriously, you think that is difficult? Adapting a SC2 build on the fly and making it work well requires a metric crap-ton of practice. And I think you just said jungle spawn timings. Lol. Timings in Sc2 are MUCH more difficult to work out, and get even more and more complicated at higher levels of play. LoL jungle timings can be mastered in 20 games by someone playing his first moba game if he actually looked it up and make a decent effort memorizing. Basically everything you said about LoL can be boiled down to...... memorization. Hard stuff. S: Even if you need to know a lot, LoL is still mechanically super easy and made for retards who can't multitask O: I won't argue with the fact that SC2 is mechanically more difficult than LoL, however, you need to learn what Elo Hell is, and that even if your mechanics are "SUPER ULTRA BEAST" from SC2 u'll still die without cooperating with teammates + Show Spoiler + btw SC2 is mechanically super easy and made for retards who can't multitask too according to BW fans ELO hell is pretty much a fallacy. It doesn't exist. LoL's entire skill set can almost be boiled down to rote memorization and cooperating with teamates. Different games, mechanical skill will get you nowhere in any moba games. S: You're just a LoL fanboy who sucks at SC2, you're opinions don't mean shit O: Well I did get into masters, so... And I've also played BW AND SC2 for like 4 times longer than LoL... And I never said SC2 was bad, I'm just saying all the SC2 fanboy arguments are A: Exactly the same as the BW vs SC2 ones or B: Don't make any fucking sense Your arguments make the same amount of sense. Your "B: Don't make any fucking sense" applies to basically everything you've said so far comparing the two games. Massing games really helps you in SC2, while it doesn't really mean anything in moba games, due to how little mechanical skill is required. Hence, laddering with a goal in mind in SC2 will improve you, while there is very little you can improve by solo queing in moba games after a certain point. | ||
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Candadar
2049 Posts
This is leading to a point of LoL not taking any more skill than SC2 or DotA or DotA 2 or whatever. It just doesn't, I dont know how anyone can honestly think that. Everyone I've seen say that was just flat out bad at the game and thought that's an indicator of difficulty, them sucking. LoL is good for mindless fun and faffing about, but it is not a competitive nor difficult game. They took on the philosophy of making everyone overpowered to balance the game out, which is fucking stupid. Add into the fact of constantly adding in new heroes all the fucking time, and it runs into the same problem Guild Wars 1 ran into -- there's so much shit that it's impossible to balance. And when you manage to balance one thing, four more imbalanced builds or whatever come out of nowhere and fuck up the meta-game. Furthermore, runes are the antithesis of skill and balance. People who play more, people who buy more boosts, so on and so forth get better runes. The difference between someone with no runes/T1 runes and someone with max T3 runes is a game changer. Someone with T3 runes but vastly lower in skill can annihilate someone with lesser runes, especially in lower levels when it REALLY makes a difference. Lastly, I think this entire conversation is stupid. It's completely separate skill sets in the end. Games like DotA 2 and SC2 should not be compared in terms of "skill needed" because they are completely separate games 100%. They are not alike at all, whatsoever, none, nada, etc. However, I can say, with utmost confidence, that LoL is the most casual of the moba games and high level SC2 trumps it in terms of dedication and skill needed. | ||
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Valentir
Norway266 Posts
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Candadar
2049 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:06 Valentir wrote: I saw LoL and comp play in same sentence, laughed. I don't see how people can compare it to Dota2 and HoN, which are the comp MOBA games. Just because it has a big price pool, meh. I think something needs to be said as well. People say "But like 200,000 people watch all the LoL streams! It's popular!" Fun fact: The stream is built into the game browser. So if you're on the browser of the game, changing runes or talking to friends or whatever, you're technically "watching" the stream -- even if you dont even know it's going on or watching it at all. The game is popular though, yes, and I'm glad it is. Go fucking e-sports, I want it to succeed and get people into watching shit. However, to say that it's "difficult" or "competitive" or requires the dedication professional SC2 does is just appalling. I've seen SC2/DotA 2 pros practice for 8-12 hours straight, every day. Most notably SK.Link in DotA 2. I used to watch LoL streams all the time, and the pros just fuck around for a few hours a day and don't really practice other than a few games with their friends on the team. | ||
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Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
I thought TL was mostly free of these kinds of divisive trollish useless arguments. (Except for BW vs SC2, because BW Forum Veterans have perfected it into an art.) | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On February 08 2012 22:38 preddo wrote: i think you're protecting LoL because, as you said, you're a cripple, so you can't progress any more in SC2, so you started playing LoL which takes no thinking and no skill and got very good at it because let's be honest everybody can be a pro player in LoL if he isn't retarded and is playing with friends who are not retards. now you're trying to protect LoL so you can feel good about your delusional achievement despite being a cripple. Come back when you play on a sponsored pro team on LoL please. | ||
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Candadar
2049 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:28 koreasilver wrote: Come back when you play on a sponsored pro team on LoL please. How facetious. | ||
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Uracil
Germany422 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:08 Candadar wrote: I think something needs to be said as well. People say "But like 200,000 people watch all the LoL streams! It's popular!" Fun fact: The stream is built into the game browser. So if you're on the browser of the game, changing runes or talking to friends or whatever, you're technically "watching" the stream -- even if you dont even know it's going on or watching it at all. That's not true. Please stop spreading false information. There's a link in the LOL client which links to the stream. You are not automatically watching the stream. | ||
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Candadar
2049 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:31 Uracil wrote: That's not true. Please stop spreading false information. There's a link in the LOL client which links to the stream. You are not automatically watching the stream. Then I don't know if they changed that, because when I played a few months back, it was not like that. It used to be that if you were in the client, you were "watching" the stream. I remember a decent sized uproar going on about it roughly when I quit a few months back, so maybe they slipped it into some patch notes. Who knows. *shrug* | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
People say this kind of stupid shit all the time on this forum in every goddamned subforum. "Oh SC2 is so easy to play, macro so easy, you can put unlimited units on one hotkey, multiple building select, REAL EASY no skill." So how many of these people are pros again? Or when people complained about how Protoss is so easy to play, how many of these players actually got up to B and up on iCCup playing Protoss? Obviously we're going to get the same trite response that these retards give every single time, "oh, I have too much self-respect," which is pretty much synonymous to "I'm too much of a dipshit to back myself up so I'm just gonna dodge." People need to learn to shut the fuck up and stop being stupid as all hell. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:32 Candadar wrote: Then I don't know if they changed that, because when I played a few months back, it was not like that. It used to be that if you were in the client, you were "watching" the stream. I remember a decent sized uproar going on about it roughly when I quit a few months back, so maybe they slipped it into some patch notes. Who knows. *shrug* It wasn't. | ||
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Uracil
Germany422 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:32 Candadar wrote: Then I don't know if they changed that, because when I played a few months back, it was not like that. It used to be that if you were in the client, you were "watching" the stream. I remember a decent sized uproar going on about it roughly when I quit a few months back, so maybe they slipped it into some patch notes. Who knows. *shrug* Well i don't know about a few months ago but right now they definitely don't do it. On the whole situation. I don't really understand the whole uproar. A proplayer thinks a other game needs in some points more skill that SC2. Who cares. For example, I play guitar. Do I care if somebody thinks that playing piano needs more skill. Certainly not. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:42 Uracil wrote: Well i don't know about a few months ago but right now they definitely don't do it. On the whole situation. I don't really understand the whole uproar. A proplayer thinks a other game needs in some points more skill that SC2. Who cares. For example, I play guitar. Do I care if somebody thinks that playing piano needs more skill. Certainly not. It's because people are fucking stupid. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On February 08 2012 23:32 Candadar wrote: Then I don't know if they changed that, because when I played a few months back, it was not like that. It used to be that if you were in the client, you were "watching" the stream. I remember a decent sized uproar going on about it roughly when I quit a few months back, so maybe they slipped it into some patch notes. Who knows. *shrug* These types of comments just prove my point that sc2 fans are scared and quite possibly jealous. It's quite hilarious. It's 200k people for real, and has nothing to do with stream advertising. Even weekly tournaments (the equivalent of eu weeklys for sc2) will get upwards of 40k-70k viewers with no link anywhere in the LoL client. | ||
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Jehct
New Zealand9115 Posts
About Destiny's replies: where the fuck in life does hard work not beat out 'talent'/intelligence? If you don't want to grind out games for 8-12 hours a day, you better practice damn efficiently. If your just mindlessly queing up games, whether in LoL or SC2, for 4 hours a day, of course you won't succeed. Deliberate practice is a lot harder than just playing the game, and it's the difference between Stephano and most other zergs, or MMA's preparation compared to pretty much anyone else. QXC makes some pretty solid posts on the complexity website about good practice, and how/why people plateau (like Clide). The time = success attitude is wrong and an excuse, like any other. Until you can practice with the mentality that you're 1/1000th of your potential and figure out how to improve, you won't be among the best. | ||
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