I just learn of the dangers of water fluoridation recently, and found out that thankfully my city had a referendum 2 years ago which banned water fluoridation. Currently Canada and the U.S. are two of the few last countries in the world that still fluoridate their water supplies; all other countries have either stopped or never had a fluoridation program to begin with.
Facts:
Fluoride is a VERY toxic poison: more toxic than lead, and only slightly less toxic than arsenic. Acute poisoning kills you, chronic exposure to low doses causes interference with bone formation and lowers intelligence. Its LD50 (dosage required to kill 50% of the test subjects) in humans is estimated to be around 40mg/kg, while adverse health effects occur at around 4mg/kg. Gastrointestinal discomfort caused by sodium fluoride has been observed in concentrations as low as 0.15mg/kg. Guess how much is in our water? 0.8 - 1.2mg / L, meaning about 3-4 mg of fluoride is ingested daily from water alone. Add in the intake from food, natural and toothpaste sources, be glad that you're the large person that weight a ton, and weep for the 40kg lightweights that are chronically poisoned by fluoride.
The fluoride that we drink is NOT processed. Fluoride from industrial waste of the fertilizer industry coming from their pollution scrubbers, goes UNTREATED directly into our drinking water here in North America. The justification? The concentration is low enough. The real justification? $$$.
The overwhelming majority of studies that are pro water fluoridation are either very old and/or terribly flawed. In fact, the American Dental Association has been repeatedly criticized for its questionable setup/methods.
Newer studies suggest that the efficacy of water fluoridation is very poor. The majority of the world does not fluoridate their drinking water and for good reason: similar countries (economically, socially, culturally, etc) with no water fluoridation have shown equal or better oral health than those with water fluoridation. If that doesn't convince you, then consider the fact that communities that have banned water fluoridation (like mine) by vote have shown either equal or a continued rate of decline or oral diseases relative to surrounding communities.
What can you do?
If my city can vote by referendum and stop water fluoridation, so can yours. I'm not sure if the legislative procedures in your area are drastically different, but in my city it was a group of students that were responsible for the referendum. They raised awareness within the university first, then went on to gain minor public exposure and support. Eventually, letters and signatures pushed their way to the city council and a referendum was held shortly afterwards.
Water fluoridation has frequently been the subject of conspiracy theories. During the "Red Scare" in the United States during the late 1940s and 1950s, and to a lesser extent in the 1960s, activists on the far right of American politics routinely asserted that fluoridation was part of a far-reaching plot to impose a socialist or communist regime. They also opposed other public health programs, notably mass vaccination and mental health services.
Fluoridation has been the subject of many court cases wherein activists have sued municipalities, asserting that their rights to consent to medical treatment and due process are infringed by mandatory water fluoridation. Individuals have sued municipalities for a number of illnesses that they believe were caused by fluoridation of the city's water supply. In most of these cases, the courts have held in favor of cities, finding no or only a tenuous connection between health problems and widespread water fluoridation. To date, no federal appellate court or state court of last resort (i.e., state supreme court) has found water fluoridation to be unlawful
These are from the source you quoted. It is a yearly occurring event to have some media coverage of a new outrage at fluoridation in water supplies. Pardon me if I'm less than impressed with your exhibition on the our "controversy".
Crazier nutjobs than you'll ever be have tried
The fluoride that we drink is NOT processed. Fluoride from industrial waste of the fertilizer industry coming from their pollution scrubbers, goes UNTREATED directly into our drinking water here in North America. The justification? The concentration is low enough. The real justification? $$$.
On further reflection I've decided to add a link to one of the biggest proponents of the flouride conspiracy. I hope this illuminates why most people approach this with a less than serious tone.
That wikipedia article repeatedly says that many international and independent studies have failed to find any adverse effects, and have found benefits to dental health. What's the problem?
Fluoride is a VERY toxic poison: more toxic than lead, and only slightly less toxic than arsenic. Acute poisoning kills you, chronic exposure to low doses causes interference with bone formation and lowers intelligence. Its LD50 (dosage required to kill 50% of the test subjects) in humans is estimated to be around 40mg/kg, while adverse health effects occur at around 4mg/kg. Gastrointestinal discomfort caused by sodium fluoride has been observed in concentrations as low as 0.15mg/kg. Guess how much is in our water? 0.8 - 1.2mg / L, meaning about 3-4 mg of fluoride is ingested daily from water alone. Add in the intake from food, natural and toothpaste sources, be glad that you're the large person that weight a ton, and weep for the 40kg lightweights that are chronically poisoned by fluoride.
Myself, at average body weight: 75kg, LD50=40mg/kg=75*40=3000mg. Daily intake, 3-4mg... Even if someone were 40kg, their dose would be 1600mg.
The fluoride that we drink is NOT processed. Fluoride from industrial waste of the fertilizer industry coming from their pollution scrubbers, goes UNTREATED directly into our drinking water here in North America. The justification? The concentration is low enough. The real justification? $$$.
How exactly would one "TREAT" Fluoride, it's a chemical no? I really hope you don't breath any UNTREATED oxygen! Now if there are chemicals other than fluoride being added, well of course then there is cause for concern- however, as stated that doesn't seem to be the case. And, of course the justification is money, that's the justification for most businesses.
Look, now I'm not really for or against fluoridation. In fact, this post interests me into further research- but what you have presented is typical mainstream garbage. There is nothing of actual value here for your argument.
DO NOT EAT SALT I repeat DO NOT EAT SALT.Chlorine Gas was used in WWI as a Chemical weapon. Salt contains over 62% of the dangerous chemical Chlorine. The LD50 of Chlorine is 220 PPM/minute. It is widely known that Morton's has been selling us this poison for over 150 years tyring to disguise the lethality of it's product with an image of a cute little girl. But did anyone ever notice that the girl is not eating the salt but is actually spilling it on the ground??? Yeah, she knows what kind of a death toxin she has in her hands and she wants nothing to do with it. Help spread the message!!!! Chlorine is Poison!!!!!
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between Flourine and small amounts of flouride ions in your water supply.
Referendums are stupid like this. The majority of the population who votes in them don't know two shits worth of science and can't actually interpret the studies for themselves. They rely on biased scientists and politicians sensationalizing the studies to make decisions.
I was watching the news last night and saw how there was a school with a powerline being built above ground nearby. One of the ways they had tried to prevent the powerline from going up was "These cuddly cute kids all wrote these letters saying 'pweeze dont do dis!! canser!!!' " and they of course had a little girl with a quivering lip give a statement on how she didn't think it should be built.
For fucks sake, these kids, while adorable, don't actually know a single fact about anything, and if these letters they wrote weren't made during arts and craft time and decorated with sparkles and maccoroni because their teachers told them to do it, rather than them actually understanding the issue, I'd be very surprised and punch myself in the nuts.
Note: I don't actually have a stance on either of these subjects (powerlines and fluoridation), I just wanted to express how stupid some decision making processes are.
On November 04 2011 00:58 FryBender wrote: DO NOT EAT SALT I repeat DO NOT EAT SALT.Chlorine Gas was used in WWI as a Chemical weapon. Salt contains over 62% of the dangerous chemical Chlorine. The LD50 of Chlorine is 220 PPM/minute. It is widely known that Morton's has been selling us this poison for over 150 years tyring to disguise the lethality of it's product with an image of a cute little girl. But did anyone ever notice that the girl is not eating the salt but is actually spilling it on the ground??? Yeah, she knows what kind of a death toxin she has in her hands and she wants nothing to do with it. Help spread the message!!!! Chlorine is Poison!!!!!
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between Flourine and small amounts of flouride ions in your water supply.
Thank you. I was going to go with aspartame but you hit the nail on the head.
On November 04 2011 01:12 Torenhire wrote: Fluoride aside, you should really not drink poison no matter what country, continent, or region you're from.
iunno i always like me a good cyanide smoothie on occassion, personally
On November 04 2011 00:58 FryBender wrote: DO NOT EAT SALT I repeat DO NOT EAT SALT.Chlorine Gas was used in WWI as a Chemical weapon. Salt contains over 62% of the dangerous chemical Chlorine. The LD50 of Chlorine is 220 PPM/minute. It is widely known that Morton's has been selling us this poison for over 150 years tyring to disguise the lethality of it's product with an image of a cute little girl. But did anyone ever notice that the girl is not eating the salt but is actually spilling it on the ground??? Yeah, she knows what kind of a death toxin she has in her hands and she wants nothing to do with it. Help spread the message!!!! Chlorine is Poison!!!!!
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between Flourine and small amounts of flouride ions in your water supply.
What's with all the hate? I'm only trying to help, believe what you want. But I guess it's customary for TL to ignore every single good point in a post and instead write long replies bashing the OP.
@ TimmyMac. That's blatantly untrue. In fact, the American Dental Association recommends to parents that they should not be using fluoridated water for their babies' formula, precisely because babies are so small that the concentration in tap water is high enough to actually cause health problems in a significant proportion of babies.
@ probe1. If you knew of the issue before and are less than impressed, there is no need to come in here and shit up the thread by announcing it. The majority of people are unaware of the issue.
@emperorchampion. Why you're so focused on bashing my post is beyond me. If you actually believe what you wrote then I'm sorry for your bigotry:
LD50 =/= chronic adverse health effect dose =/= minor symptoms/irritation dose. Divide all your skillfully calculated numbers by ~400 except for the intake value (alone from water, 3-4mg, total daily, 5-7mg) then we're talking. Because otherwise according to your logic, even a 40kg person can take in 1.5g of fluoride daily and still be completely fine. Not.
Again, I can pretty safely assume you didn't take or failed chemistry, or you have a terrible memory, or your ability to think has become non-existent due to the aforementioned bigotry. You really shouldn't post with such terrible sarcasm when you clearly know nothing about the subject. The industrial wastes that get added into our water supply include: sodium fluoride, sodium silicofluoride, and fluorosilic acid, none of which are the naturally occurring fluoride compounds but are obviously cheaper. Also, these industrial waste fluoride compounds are only 90 something percent pure, meaning a few percents of who-knows-what other industrial wastes also get added. Again, according to your logic, I'm sure you'll be just fine breathing UNTREATED oxygen that's 5% mustard gas.
Have a nice day all, I felt the obligation to let others know about the issue since I'm lucky enough to live in a city free of the problem. I presented known facts and wrote that there are million of other web pages + videos on the subject, so believe what you want since I've done my part and it's your health
Come on, do some research before you OP something. This was just abysmal -- horrible research leading to scaremongering through misinformation. Also, beginning a section with "Facts:" is reminiscent of any moon hoax nonsense or 9/11 "truther" propaganda. You come across as a conspiracy nut, cherry picking your "facts" to support your claim instead of looking at the actual evidence. This is no different than fucking chemtrails.
Just employ some critical thinking, i.e. "Would they really endanger 300 million people like this, and would 300 million people really be ignorant of such dangers?"
Or just, you know... Google search. Or Wiki. The answer is like right there.
On November 04 2011 01:35 HardMacro wrote: @ probe1. If you knew of the issue before and are less than impressed, there is no need to come in here and shit up the thread by announcing it. The majority of people are unaware of the issue.
He didn't shit up the thread he gave people a broader more informed view of the situation while actually reading the sources you posted. Then you take like 2 paragraphs to bash on someone else. Make points not jabs!
Community water fluoridation is the single most effective public health measure to prevent tooth decay. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has proclaimed community water fluoridation as one of 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century. Approximately 72.4% of the U.S. population served by public water systems receive the benefit of optimally fluoridated water.
If fluorosis occurs when teeth are developing, is it okay to use fluoridated water to reconstitute infant formula?
Yes, it is safe to use fluoridated water to mix infant formula. If your baby is primarily fed infant formula, using fluoridated water might increase the chance for mild enamel fluorosis, but enamel fluorosis does not affect the health of your child or the health of your child’s teeth. Parents and caregivers are encouraged to talk to their dentists about what’s best for their child.
Read your own sources and stop believing everything your local news and politicians spoon-feed you.
Sadly, a referendum like this passed in a county here in FL. It's sad that people are more convinced by misinformation and half-truths then actual scientific research.
On November 04 2011 01:55 mbr2321 wrote: Don't you get like a flouride thing at the dentists? That foamey shit they put in a mouthguard that tastes like shitty bublegum/mint/coughsyrup/etc.?
And also jacks up the price of your teeth cleaning ~$50 >_>.
I always refuse it. I'll stick with brushing regularly. No cavities ever.
Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is a colorless and odorless chemical compound, also referred to by some as Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid. Its basis is the highly reactive hydroxyl radical, a species shown to mutate DNA, denature proteins, disrupt cell membranes, and chemically alter critical neurotransmitters. The atomic components of DHMO are found in a number of caustic, explosive and poisonous compounds such as Sulfuric Acid, Nitroglycerine and Ethyl Alcohol.
Research conducted by award-winning U.S. scientist Nathan Zohner concluded that roughly 86 percent of the population supports a ban on dihydrogen monoxide. Although his results are preliminary, Zohner believes people need to pay closer attention to the information presented to them regarding Dihydrogen Monoxide. He adds that if more people knew the truth about DHMO then studies like the one he conducted would not be necessary.
Unfortunately, the dangers of DHMO have increased as world population has increased, a fact that the raw numbers and careful research both bear out. Now more than ever, it is important to be aware of just what the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide are and how we can all reduce the risks faced by ourselves and our families.
Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are: (1) Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities, (2) Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns, (3) Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals, and (4) Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
On November 04 2011 01:55 mbr2321 wrote: Don't you get like a flouride thing at the dentists? That foamey shit they put in a mouthguard that tastes like shitty bublegum/mint/coughsyrup/etc.?
And also jacks up the price of your teeth cleaning ~$50 >_>.
I always refuse it. I'll stick with brushing regularly. No cavities ever.
Fluoride is a common ingredient in toothpaste. There is no escaping your Fluoride Overlords
A good enough reason not to put fluoride in the water is that it tastes like shit. When I visited some friends in Chicago earlier, no one even drank the water directly from the tap. Everyone just bought bottled water or coke. The tap water tasted so bad that when I went to McDonalds and ordered a soda, they put ice cubes in it made from tap water. I couldn't finish the soda since it tasted so bad. I'm not sure if that was because of the fluoride in the ice or because of the corn syrup in the soda though.
On November 04 2011 00:58 FryBender wrote: DO NOT EAT SALT I repeat DO NOT EAT SALT.Chlorine Gas was used in WWI as a Chemical weapon. Salt contains over 62% of the dangerous chemical Chlorine. The LD50 of Chlorine is 220 PPM/minute. It is widely known that Morton's has been selling us this poison for over 150 years tyring to disguise the lethality of it's product with an image of a cute little girl. But did anyone ever notice that the girl is not eating the salt but is actually spilling it on the ground??? Yeah, she knows what kind of a death toxin she has in her hands and she wants nothing to do with it. Help spread the message!!!! Chlorine is Poison!!!!!
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between Flourine and small amounts of flouride ions in your water supply.
DO NOT EAT SALT (also calcium chloride) I repeat DO NOT EAT SALT.Chlorine Gas was used in WWI as a Chemical weapon. Salt contains over (too lazy to look up mass of the elements)% of the dangerous chemical Chlorine. The LD50 of Chlorine is 220 PPM/minute. It is widely known that Morton's has been selling us this poison for over 150 years tyring to disguise the lethality of it's product with an image of a cute little girl. But did anyone ever notice that the girl is not eating the salt but is actually spilling it on the ground??? Yeah, she knows what kind of a death toxin she has in her hands and she wants nothing to do with it. Help spread the message!!!! Chlorine is Poison!!!!!
You're absolutely right man, one of the chloride salts, calcium chloride, is toxic like most other chloride compounds and elemental chlorine! But we're actually talking about fluoride here.
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between NaCl, NaCl2, and the elemental chlorine.
On November 04 2011 01:55 mbr2321 wrote: Don't you get like a flouride thing at the dentists? That foamey shit they put in a mouthguard that tastes like shitty bublegum/mint/coughsyrup/etc.?
And also jacks up the price of your teeth cleaning ~$50 >_>.
I always refuse it. I'll stick with brushing regularly. No cavities ever.
Fluoride is a common ingredient in toothpaste. There is no escaping your Fluoride Overlords
As long as I keep buying on sale Colgate/Crest for $1.50 a tube lasting me many weeks, I'm fine with that =).
On November 04 2011 02:04 DrainX wrote: A good enough reason not to put fluoride in the water is that it tastes like shit. When I visited some friends in Chicago earlier, no one even drank the water directly from the tap. Everyone just bought bottled water or coke. The tap water tasted so bad that when I went to McDonalds and ordered a soda, they put ice cubes in it made from tap water. I couldn't finish the soda since it tasted so bad. I'm not sure if that was because of the fluoride in the ice or because of the corn syrup in the soda though.
More than likely just s***ty water treatment or it was gross well water. Fluoridation doesn't affect water taste at all.
Hey yo its poison, fluoride, chlorine You say its love, it is poison Forums where I learned they should be burned, it is poison Canada prescripting us medicine which is poison American Dental Association injecting our infants with the poison OP misoverstood is poison Wikipedia and Youtube poison, toothpaste poison And any thoughts of taking Incontrol down is poison
On November 04 2011 02:04 DrainX wrote: A good enough reason not to put fluoride in the water is that it tastes like shit. When I visited some friends in Chicago earlier, no one even drank the water directly from the tap. Everyone just bought bottled water or coke. The tap water tasted so bad that when I went to McDonalds and ordered a soda, they put ice cubes in it made from tap water. I couldn't finish the soda since it tasted so bad. I'm not sure if that was because of the fluoride in the ice or because of the corn syrup in the soda though.
More than likely just s***ty water treatment or it was gross well water. Fluoridation doesn't affect water taste at all.
It had an aftertaste similar to what pool water with chlorine smells like. Maybe it wasn't the fluoride. That's what everyone told me though.
You're absolutely right man, one of the chloride salts, calcium chloride, is toxic like most other chloride compounds and elemental chlorine! But we're actually talking about fluoride here.
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between NaCl, NaCl2, and the elemental chlorine.
I have no idea what NaCl2 is, and CaCl (Calcium Chloride) is actually not toxic at all and is on the FDA GRAS list (generaly recognized as safe). Just like the poster above me mentioned with DHMO (DiHydrogenMonoOxide), pretty much any chemical in large doses can be toxic or lethal. The way you talk about fluoride shows that you don't really understand toxicity at all. You are correct when you say that LD50 are lethal effect numbers, however they have nothing to do with actual chronic toxicity. Water has an LD50 for humans (approximately 4 gallons/hour in healthy human male) but clearly water has no chronic toxicity ~400 % lower doses. That makes no sense at all and I have no idea where you pulled that number from. Certainly there is no doubt that long-term exposure to fluoride will lead to chronic toxicity but the links you supply yourself have stated that no study has ever shown that the amounts of fluoride added to water have any sort of chronic toxicity effects.
As far as other stuff that gets added into the water when they use impure Fluoride I would imagine that there's probably tests for that but even if they don't, let's do the math on this. You say that the fluorine they use is 98% pure (sounds reasonable). The concentration of the fluoride in water is maximum 1mg/L. For simplicity sake we'll assume that 1L=1Kg the concentration of Flouride is therefore 1PPM. 2% of 1PPM is 20PPB. Therefore all the other possible impurities that come form fluoridation of water do not amount to greater then 20PPB that's 0.00000002% of what you're drinking. For a good reference the WHO says that 10 PPB of arsenic are acceptable levels in drinking water (this is arsenic we're talking about one of the most toxic substances out there) therefore, a combined impurity of 20 PPBs is something I'm willing to risk for the benefit of my strong and healthy teeth.
On November 04 2011 00:58 FryBender wrote: DO NOT EAT SALT I repeat DO NOT EAT SALT.Chlorine Gas was used in WWI as a Chemical weapon. Salt contains over 62% of the dangerous chemical Chlorine. The LD50 of Chlorine is 220 PPM/minute. It is widely known that Morton's has been selling us this poison for over 150 years tyring to disguise the lethality of it's product with an image of a cute little girl. But did anyone ever notice that the girl is not eating the salt but is actually spilling it on the ground??? Yeah, she knows what kind of a death toxin she has in her hands and she wants nothing to do with it. Help spread the message!!!! Chlorine is Poison!!!!!
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between Flourine and small amounts of flouride ions in your water supply.
You win the thread.
Conspiracy theorists never were very good at science and critical thinking, I suppose
You're absolutely right man, one of the chloride salts, calcium chloride, is toxic like most other chloride compounds and elemental chlorine! But we're actually talking about fluoride here.
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between NaCl, NaCl2, and the elemental chlorine.
I have no idea what NaCl2 is, and CaCl (Calcium Chloride) is actually not toxic at all and is on the FDA GRAS list (generaly recognized as safe). Just like the poster above me mentioned with DHMO (DiHydrogenMonoOxide), pretty much any chemical in large doses can be toxic or lethal. The way you talk about fluoride shows that you don't really understand toxicity at all. You are correct when you say that LD50 are lethal effect numbers, however they have nothing to do with actual chronic toxicity. Water has an LD50 for humans (approximately 4 gallons/hour in healthy human male) but clearly water has no chronic toxicity ~400 % lower doses. That makes no sense at all and I have no idea where you pulled that number from. Certainly there is no doubt that long-term exposure to fluoride will lead to chronic toxicity but the links you supply yourself have stated that no study has ever shown that the amounts of fluoride added to water have any sort of chronic toxicity effects.
As far as other stuff that gets added into the water when they use impure Fluoride I would imagine that there's probably tests for that but even if they don't, let's do the math on this. You say that the fluorine they use is 98% pure (sounds reasonable). The concentration of the fluoride in water is maximum 1mg/L. For simplicity sake we'll assume that 1L=1Kg the concentration of Flouride is therefore 1PPM. 2% of 1PPM is 20PPB. Therefore all the other possible impurities that come form fluoridation of water do not amount to greater then 20PPB that's 0.00000002% of what you're drinking. For a good reference the WHO says that 10 PPB of arsenic are acceptable levels in drinking water (this is arsenic we're talking about one of the most toxic substances out there) therefore, a combined impurity of 20 PPBs is something I'm willing to risk for the benefit of my strong and healthy teeth.
That sounds almost powerful enough to be used for homeopathy! Maybe he's on to something!
On November 04 2011 02:23 Al Bundy wrote: Hey yo its poison, fluoride, chlorine You say its love, it is poison Forums where I learned they should be burned, it is poison Canada prescripting us medicine which is poison American Dental Association injecting our infants with the poison OP misoverstood is poison Wikipedia and Youtube poison, toothpaste poison And any thoughts of taking Incontrol down is poison
Not as dangerous as DHMO in my opinion. I worked under a health economist and a leading US uni for two years running nation-wide regressions on the correlation between water fluoride levels and incidence of every major disease the conspiracy theorists/misinformed think it causes. Nothing. Take off the tinfoil
On November 04 2011 01:39 Aylear wrote: i.e. "Would they really endanger 300 million people like this, and would 300 million people really be ignorant of such dangers?" .
considering the entire fucking food industry is based around cramming as much poisonous cack into us before we die, its no stretch of the imagination
On November 04 2011 01:39 Aylear wrote: i.e. "Would they really endanger 300 million people like this, and would 300 million people really be ignorant of such dangers?" .
considering the entire fucking food industry is based around cramming as much poisonous cack into us before we die, its no stretch of the imagination
Oh golly, I guess that's why life expectancy almost tripled since the bronze age.
Everything is toxic. Water by itself is toxic! It's all about the amount of it you take. We're (relatively) fine. I'd like it if you pointed a point in time when "the food industry" was better.
Note: Consider the effect of scientific development which allows us to generate food much faster than we used to.
On November 04 2011 01:39 Aylear wrote: i.e. "Would they really endanger 300 million people like this, and would 300 million people really be ignorant of such dangers?" .
considering the entire fucking food industry is based around cramming as much poisonous cack into us before we die, its no stretch of the imagination
Oh golly, I guess that's why life expectancy almost tripled since the bronze age.
Everything is toxic. Water by itself is toxic! It's all about the amount of it you take. We're (relatively) fine. I'd like it if you pointed a point in time when "the food industry" was better.
Note: Consider the effect of scientific development which allows us to generate food much faster than we used to.
I have to agree with Djzapz on this one. The food industry is not based on cramming poisons into us. It's based on producing things that humans love due to evolutionary requirements of surviving (fat, and sugar) quickly and very efficiently. Now we as humans love it so much that we get addicted to it. It is not the food industries fault that our brains crave fat because our brains think that we need to store as much fat as possible in case the next winter will be a difficult one. Blame evolution on that.
On November 04 2011 00:58 FryBender wrote: DO NOT EAT SALT I repeat DO NOT EAT SALT.Chlorine Gas was used in WWI as a Chemical weapon. Salt contains over 62% of the dangerous chemical Chlorine. The LD50 of Chlorine is 220 PPM/minute. It is widely known that Morton's has been selling us this poison for over 150 years tyring to disguise the lethality of it's product with an image of a cute little girl. But did anyone ever notice that the girl is not eating the salt but is actually spilling it on the ground??? Yeah, she knows what kind of a death toxin she has in her hands and she wants nothing to do with it. Help spread the message!!!! Chlorine is Poison!!!!!
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between Flourine and small amounts of flouride ions in your water supply.
You win the thread.
Conspiracy theorists never were very good at science and critical thinking, I suppose
Or at understanding when someone is trying to make a point, apparently:
On November 04 2011 00:58 FryBender wrote: DO NOT EAT SALT I repeat DO NOT EAT SALT.Chlorine Gas was used in WWI as a Chemical weapon. Salt contains over 62% of the dangerous chemical Chlorine. The LD50 of Chlorine is 220 PPM/minute. It is widely known that Morton's has been selling us this poison for over 150 years tyring to disguise the lethality of it's product with an image of a cute little girl. But did anyone ever notice that the girl is not eating the salt but is actually spilling it on the ground??? Yeah, she knows what kind of a death toxin she has in her hands and she wants nothing to do with it. Help spread the message!!!! Chlorine is Poison!!!!!
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between Flourine and small amounts of flouride ions in your water supply.
DO NOT EAT SALT (also calcium chloride) I repeat DO NOT EAT SALT.Chlorine Gas was used in WWI as a Chemical weapon. Salt contains over (too lazy to look up mass of the elements)% of the dangerous chemical Chlorine. The LD50 of Chlorine is 220 PPM/minute. It is widely known that Morton's has been selling us this poison for over 150 years tyring to disguise the lethality of it's product with an image of a cute little girl. But did anyone ever notice that the girl is not eating the salt but is actually spilling it on the ground??? Yeah, she knows what kind of a death toxin she has in her hands and she wants nothing to do with it. Help spread the message!!!! Chlorine is Poison!!!!!
You're absolutely right man, one of the chloride salts, calcium chloride, is toxic like most other chloride compounds and elemental chlorine! But we're actually talking about fluoride here.
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between NaCl, NaCl2, and the elemental chlorine.
...seriously.
Dear TeamLiquid staff,
Before I begin, I must clarify that I do not presume to enforce the rules in this forum. I do, however, think that this thread should be closed. As you say in the TL Commandments, this is your house, and as such you have the right to elect not to provide an audience to conspiracy theorists. More to the point, you have the right not to pander to the unscientific and baseless.
More more to the point: When you are making claims that, if true, would have a massive impact, cite your fucking sources instead of linking to a Wiki page which partially debunks the very points you're trying to make. Your words are not proof. Bring me peer reviewed articles in scientific journals, not...
On November 04 2011 01:39 Aylear wrote: i.e. "Would they really endanger 300 million people like this, and would 300 million people really be ignorant of such dangers?" .
considering the entire fucking food industry is based around cramming as much poisonous cack into us before we die, its no stretch of the imagination
I'll never eat or drink anything ever again to stay as healthy as possible.
Listen up kids. Stay in school and pay attention during chemistry. Otherwise you may grow up to spout nonsense about water fluoridation poisoning the population.
On November 04 2011 01:39 Aylear wrote: i.e. "Would they really endanger 300 million people like this, and would 300 million people really be ignorant of such dangers?" .
considering the entire fucking food industry is based around cramming as much poisonous cack into us before we die, its no stretch of the imagination
Oh golly, I guess that's why life expectancy almost tripled since the bronze age.
Everything is toxic. Water by itself is toxic! It's all about the amount of it you take. We're (relatively) fine. I'd like it if you pointed a point in time when "the food industry" was better.
Note: Consider the effect of scientific development which allows us to generate food much faster than we used to.
I have to agree with Djzapz on this one. The food industry is not based on cramming poisons into us. It's based on producing things that humans love due to evolutionary requirements of surviving (fat, and sugar) quickly and very efficiently. Now we as humans love it so much that we get addicted to it. It is not the food industries fault that our brains crave fat because our brains think that we need to store as much fat as possible in case the next winter will be a difficult one. Blame evolution on that.
read this if you want to update yourself . food industry (and their media) revolves around cheaply produced high-carb fake foods with zero nutritional value (or worse) that are tailored to have addictive properties and push up the price of real grass-fed food and result in a deceived population that is rotten to the core with heart disease and malnourishment
On November 04 2011 01:39 Aylear wrote: i.e. "Would they really endanger 300 million people like this, and would 300 million people really be ignorant of such dangers?" .
considering the entire fucking food industry is based around cramming as much poisonous cack into us before we die, its no stretch of the imagination
Oh golly, I guess that's why life expectancy almost tripled since the bronze age.
Everything is toxic. Water by itself is toxic! It's all about the amount of it you take. We're (relatively) fine. I'd like it if you pointed a point in time when "the food industry" was better.
Note: Consider the effect of scientific development which allows us to generate food much faster than we used to.
I have to agree with Djzapz on this one. The food industry is not based on cramming poisons into us. It's based on producing things that humans love due to evolutionary requirements of surviving (fat, and sugar) quickly and very efficiently. Now we as humans love it so much that we get addicted to it. It is not the food industries fault that our brains crave fat because our brains think that we need to store as much fat as possible in case the next winter will be a difficult one. Blame evolution on that.
read this if you want to update yourself . food industry (and their media) revolves around cheaply produced high-carb fake foods with zero nutritional value (or worse) that are tailored to have addictive properties and push up the price of real grass-fed food and result in a deceived population that is rotten to the core with heart disease and malnourishment
The food industry produces exactly what us humans crave. I want to be able to decide for myself how much fat and sugar intake I consume on a daily basis. Yes food is addicting. It has to be otherwise our species would not have survived when we lived in trees and did not have a guaranteed food source. The food drive is the most powerful of all the drives in the human psyche (much more so then the human sex drive and we know how powerful that is). Therefore I promise you that the food industry does not need to work very hard to make food even more addicting.
As far as healthy food that is again quite relative. The human metabolism is an extremely complicated yet adaptive system. There are general nutritional guidelines that should be followed (like the required intake of vitamin C since we are unable to produce any ourselves) but we can adopt pretty well to different nutritional foods. The big obesity epidemic that is sweeping the US is not necessarily only caused by food but has as much to do with general physical inactivity. So does that mean that the computer game industry is trying to make us all fat by keeping our children indoors instead of outside running around and playing with our friends?
The industrialization of food production sounds very scary. But the truth is (as DjZpatz has already pointed out) it had a beneficial effect on the general world health with our average life spans skyrocketing in developed worlds where food access is easy specifically due to all those practices that you deem evil.
Finally I would argue that organic farming is, in today's world, actually unethical. The world population now sits at 7 billion people. We have to find a way to feed all of them. Organic farming is inherently much less efficient and has a much lower and slower food production rate. The earth is a limited resource system. By not optimally using the resources that we are given (organic farming) you are ensuring that more people will starve. If you ask me I would much rather die of a heart attack at 70 from my clogged arteries from all the extra fat I ate then die at 5 from malnutrition because I have nothing to eat.
On November 04 2011 00:58 FryBender wrote: DO NOT EAT SALT I repeat DO NOT EAT SALT.Chlorine Gas was used in WWI as a Chemical weapon. Salt contains over 62% of the dangerous chemical Chlorine. The LD50 of Chlorine is 220 PPM/minute. It is widely known that Morton's has been selling us this poison for over 150 years tyring to disguise the lethality of it's product with an image of a cute little girl. But did anyone ever notice that the girl is not eating the salt but is actually spilling it on the ground??? Yeah, she knows what kind of a death toxin she has in her hands and she wants nothing to do with it. Help spread the message!!!! Chlorine is Poison!!!!!
Or you can stop the ignorance and actually try to understand the differences between Flourine and small amounts of flouride ions in your water supply.
This is a good post.
I applaud you sir.
Was going to post long winded reply yelling at OP but instead I'll just give you a tip of my hat.
On November 04 2011 04:17 FFGenerations wrote: read this if you want to update yourself . food industry (and their media) revolves around cheaply produced high-carb fake foods with zero nutritional value (or worse) that are tailored to have addictive properties and push up the price of real grass-fed food and result in a deceived population that is rotten to the core with heart disease and malnourishment
Jesus Christ dude, I think you're missing the point of the health forum if you're blaming anyone but yourself for being "addicted" to bad food.
On November 04 2011 01:39 Aylear wrote: i.e. "Would they really endanger 300 million people like this, and would 300 million people really be ignorant of such dangers?" .
considering the entire fucking food industry is based around cramming as much poisonous cack into us before we die, its no stretch of the imagination
Oh golly, I guess that's why life expectancy almost tripled since the bronze age.
Everything is toxic. Water by itself is toxic! It's all about the amount of it you take. We're (relatively) fine. I'd like it if you pointed a point in time when "the food industry" was better.
Note: Consider the effect of scientific development which allows us to generate food much faster than we used to.
I have to agree with Djzapz on this one. The food industry is not based on cramming poisons into us. It's based on producing things that humans love due to evolutionary requirements of surviving (fat, and sugar) quickly and very efficiently. Now we as humans love it so much that we get addicted to it. It is not the food industries fault that our brains crave fat because our brains think that we need to store as much fat as possible in case the next winter will be a difficult one. Blame evolution on that.
read this if you want to update yourself . food industry (and their media) revolves around cheaply produced high-carb fake foods with zero nutritional value (or worse) that are tailored to have addictive properties and push up the price of real grass-fed food and result in a deceived population that is rotten to the core with heart disease and malnourishment
The food industry produces exactly what us humans crave. I want to be able to decide for myself how much fat and sugar intake I consume on a daily basis. Yes food is addicting. It has to be otherwise our species would not have survived when we lived in trees and did not have a guaranteed food source. The food drive is the most powerful of all the drives in the human psyche (much more so then the human sex drive and we know how powerful that is). Therefore I promise you that the food industry does not need to work very hard to make food even more addicting.
As far as healthy food that is again quite relative. The human metabolism is an extremely complicated yet adaptive system. There are general nutritional guidelines that should be followed (like the required intake of vitamin C since we are unable to produce any ourselves) but we can adopt pretty well to different nutritional foods. The big obesity epidemic that is sweeping the US is not necessarily only caused by food but has as much to do with general physical inactivity. So does that mean that the computer game industry is trying to make us all fat by keeping our children indoors instead of outside running around and playing with our friends?
The industrialization of food production sounds very scary. But the truth is (as DjZpatz has already pointed out) it had a beneficial effect on the general world health with our average life spans skyrocketing in developed worlds where food access is easy specifically due to all those practices that you deem evil.
Finally I would argue that organic farming is, in today's world, actually unethical. The world population now sits at 7 billion people. We have to find a way to feed all of them. Organic farming is inherently much less efficient and has a much lower and slower food production rate. The earth is a limited resource system. By not optimally using the resources that we are given (organic farming) you are ensuring that more people will starve. If you ask me I would much rather die of a heart attack at 70 from my clogged arteries from all the extra fat I ate then die at 5 from malnutrition because I have nothing to eat.
you are saying (in some convoluted fashion) that "production of food" is good for humanity. its an interesting perception but it is very limited dont you think? the industry is manipulative and does what it does for profit margins, not for the benefit of "the starving africans".
do you really think the 1st world and 3rd world are treated as the same market? perhaps i should have been more clear but i was not saying that it is the starving africans that are being manipulated into eating (and enjoying) poor-quality food.
i was talking about us guys, and our mothers, and our grandmothers, who go to the supermarket and wade through stacks upon stacks of dangerous processed products (tho beautifully packaged and advertised) with labels like "no added fat!" that we gobble down because we are coerced and controlled by the misinformation and irresponsibility of those who have power over us
fat doesnt clog your arteries, cholesterol does via the conversion of carbohydrates . every "Low fat!!!" label you see is a humongous and tragic FUCK YOU to the public who know no better
On November 04 2011 01:35 HardMacro wrote: @ TimmyMac. That's blatantly untrue. In fact, the American Dental Association recommends to parents that they should not be using fluoridated water for their babies' formula, precisely because babies are so small that the concentration in tap water is high enough to actually cause health problems in a significant proportion of babies.
Did you read the wiki page?
On November 04 2011 01:35 HardMacro wrote: Again, I can pretty safely assume you didn't take or failed chemistry, or you have a terrible memory, or your ability to think has become non-existent due to the aforementioned bigotry. ... The industrial wastes that get added into our water supply include: sodium fluoride, sodium silicofluoride, and fluorosilic acid, none of which are the naturally occurring fluoride compounds but are obviously cheaper.
M.Sc and chemistry teacher here... not sure what you're implying. If YOU hadn't failed chemistry you'd be aware that sodium fluoride is unquestionably the safest way to introduce fluoride ions into any solution for consumption, and that silicon compounds are about as biologically inert as they come.
On November 04 2011 04:17 FFGenerations wrote: read this if you want to update yourself . food industry (and their media) revolves around cheaply produced high-carb fake foods with zero nutritional value (or worse) that are tailored to have addictive properties and push up the price of real grass-fed food and result in a deceived population that is rotten to the core with heart disease and malnourishment
Jesus Christ dude, I think you're missing the point of the health forum if you're blaming anyone but yourself for being "addicted" to bad food.
no i actually care about the people around me who have been damaged and tricked by corporations force-feeding them crap all their lives (figuratively) . it is disgusting how we all live and we should not tolerate it. my mother is a teacher, not a computer scientist, and doesnt know how to use the internet properly; its our responsibility to try to enlighten those less fortunate around us, not to profit with glee from their ill-health. the blame does lie with those who have power over us and who have abused that power to brainwash and manipulate us as a SOCIETY
On November 04 2011 05:12 FFGenerations wrote: you are saying (in some convoluted fashion) that "production of food" is good for humanity. its an interesting perception but it is very limited dont you think? the industry is manipulative and does what it does for profit margins, not for the benefit of "the starving africans".
do you really think the 1st world and 3rd world are treated as the same market? perhaps i should have been more clear but i was not saying that it is the starving africans that are being manipulated into eating (and enjoying) poor-quality food.
i was talking about us guys, and our mothers, and our grandmothers, who go to the supermarket and wade through stacks upon stacks of dangerous processed products (tho beautifully packaged and advertised) with labels like "no added fat!" that we gobble down because we are coerced and controlled by the misinformation and irresponsibility of those who have power over us
fat doesnt clog your arteries, cholesterol does via the conversion of carbohydrates . every "Low fat!!!" label you see is a humongous and tragic FUCK YOU to the public who know no better
I have a big problem with the general propoganda against the food industry. Films like "food inc" or "supersize me" don't scare me but quite honestly make me angry because of the horrible spin they put on a complex issue. Food inc is not "The Jungle" of our generation even though I'm sure that that's what it wanted to be. And Supersize me just pissed me off because the guy decided to do something stupid and was praised for it. If I make a movie where I eat nothing but cucumbers for the next 30 days what do you think is going to happen to me and will it really expose the cucumber industry as evil? As far as your profit margins comment, the organic industry is a million times worse since they charge whatever they want for food that is sometimes worse quality then the mass produced food. If you think organic farmers aren't in it for the money then you are mistaken.
Again the big danger of mass production of food is that all of a sudden food becomes cheap and readily available. And because we love food so much we overconsume. The food industry is not to blame for this. Unless you're saying that the food industry shouldn't make food so cheap and readily available to us?
I have to disagree that processed food is somehow more dangerous then the natural stuff you can buy in your local organics aisle. Where are you getting this information from? I've yet to see a comprehensive study that clearly shows that "all-natural organic" has health benefits that processed food doesn't. If you have something like that I'd love to see it. Actually as far as food poisoning goes organic foods are usually considered more dangerous then regular food. The unpasteurized milk movement is a perfect example of dangerous misconceptions about what exactly food processing actually means.
If you mean triglycerides do not clog arteries then you are correct. However when I was referring to "fat" I meant the general use of animal or vegetable fat that includes cholesterol, triglycerides,phospholipids, proteins and aminoacids. Interestingly enough the amount of cholesterol in the bloodstream is more dependent on the general fat uptake in your diet then on specific amounts of cholesterol you ingest. This is due to our body being able to regulate the amount of cholesterol it produces base on how much cholesterol is already in your bloodstream. It then manufactures cholesterol from the fats that you have consumed which is where trans and cis fats become important since it regulates the production of LD vs HD cholesterol. All of this however can be easily controlled by regulating the amount of food you take as well as getting regular physical exercise. It might be nice to blame the evil fat cats at Cargil and Monsanto for making you and those around you fat and unhealthy but then you also have to blame Blizzard for making a game too addicting that I'd rather play it then go to the gym.
Since you said that my last post was too convoluted: TLDR: Food industry makes food. It is not inherently unhealthy. It's up to us to be reasonable with the amount we eat and the physical excersice we take so that we stay healthy
It has been proven that Escherichia coli bacteria (found in feces) can and does find its way into our water supplies, in other words, we are consuming shit. Treatment plants get rid of a lot of this, but there are still "acceptable limits".....
However, we do not run that risk when drinking rum, whiskey, beer or other liquors because alcohol has to go through a distillation process of boiling, filtering and fermenting.
It is my duty to communicate to all of you people who are drinking water, to STOP doing so, it has been proven that it is UNHEALTHY and BAD for you.
Free yourself of shit, drink ALCOHOL!!!
It is better to drink alcohol and talk shit than to drink water and be full of shit.
On November 04 2011 05:12 FFGenerations wrote: you are saying (in some convoluted fashion) that "production of food" is good for humanity. its an interesting perception but it is very limited dont you think? the industry is manipulative and does what it does for profit margins, not for the benefit of "the starving africans".
do you really think the 1st world and 3rd world are treated as the same market? perhaps i should have been more clear but i was not saying that it is the starving africans that are being manipulated into eating (and enjoying) poor-quality food.
i was talking about us guys, and our mothers, and our grandmothers, who go to the supermarket and wade through stacks upon stacks of dangerous processed products (tho beautifully packaged and advertised) with labels like "no added fat!" that we gobble down because we are coerced and controlled by the misinformation and irresponsibility of those who have power over us
fat doesnt clog your arteries, cholesterol does via the conversion of carbohydrates . every "Low fat!!!" label you see is a humongous and tragic FUCK YOU to the public who know no better
I have a big problem with the general propoganda against the food industry. Films like "food inc" or "supersize me" don't scare me but quite honestly make me angry because of the horrible spin they put on a complex issue. Food inc is not "The Jungle" of our generation even though I'm sure that that's what it wanted to be. And Supersize me just pissed me off because the guy decided to do something stupid and was praised for it. If I make a movie where I eat nothing but cucumbers for the next 30 days what do you think is going to happen to me and will it really expose the cucumber industry as evil? As far as your profit margins comment, the organic industry is a million times worse since they charge whatever they want for food that is sometimes worse quality then the mass produced food. If you think organic farmers aren't in it for the money then you are mistaken.
Again the big danger of mass production of food is that all of a sudden food becomes cheap and readily available. And because we love food so much we overconsume. The food industry is not to blame for this. Unless you're saying that the food industry shouldn't make food so cheap and readily available to us?
I have to disagree that processed food is somehow more dangerous then the natural stuff you can buy in your local organics aisle. Where are you getting this information from? I've yet to see a comprehensive study that clearly shows that "all-natural organic" has health benefits that processed food doesn't. If you have something like that I'd love to see it. Actually as far as food poisoning goes organic foods are usually considered more dangerous then regular food. The unpasteurized milk movement is a perfect example of dangerous misconceptions about what exactly food processing actually means.
If you mean triglycerides do not clog arteries then you are correct. However when I was referring to "fat" I meant the general use of animal or vegetable fat that includes cholesterol, triglycerides,phospholipids, proteins and aminoacids. Interestingly enough the amount of cholesterol in the bloodstream is more dependent on the general fat uptake in your diet then on specific amounts of cholesterol you ingest. This is due to our body being able to regulate the amount of cholesterol it produces base on how much cholesterol is already in your bloodstream. It then manufactures cholesterol from the fats that you have consumed which is where trans and cis fats become important since it regulates the production of LD vs HD cholesterol. All of this however can be easily controlled by regulating the amount of food you take as well as getting regular physical exercise. It might be nice to blame the evil fat cats at Cargil and Monsanto for making you and those around you fat and unhealthy but then you also have to blame Blizzard for making a game too addicting that I'd rather play it then go to the gym.
Since you said that my last post was too convoluted: TLDR: Food industry makes food. It is not inherently unhealthy. It's up to us to be reasonable with the amount we eat and the physical excersice we take so that we stay healthy
well i dont approve of game devs who churn out crap, eg the Wii that was an incredible marketing (manipulation) thing (get fit playing the Wii by waggling your arm a little!), or those Sports games where you bash 2 buttons and the parents are manipulated into buying it because they think its actually any fucking good.
of course we have personal responsibility but take a look around, we're already brainwashed and damaged, we need to help each other not just shout "be reasonable!" and expect people to understand. thats why we have education. except our "education" extends out of the classroom onto the billboards and magazines and pre-existing constructions and THAT education, by the way, is not in our best interests - its to psychologically damage us for the profit of someone else.
sorry but when you say "fat" i took it to mean what is printed on the label of our food, since we are discussing the food industry and marketing of unhealthy products. i did not realise that you in actual fact meant "the general use of animal or vegetable fat that includes cholesterol, triglycerides,phospholipids, proteins and aminoacids. Interestingly enough the amount of cholesterol in the bloodstream is more dependent on the general fat uptake in your diet then on specific amounts of cholesterol you ingest. This is due to our body being able to regulate the amount of cholesterol it produces base on how much cholesterol is already in your bloodstream. It then manufactures cholesterol from the fats that you have consumed which is where trans and cis fats become important since it regulates the production of LD vs HD cholesterol. All of this however can be easily controlled by regulating the amount of food you take as well as getting regular physical exercise."
i am saying that the people who run the food industry have a responsibility to the people that they have a huge, historic psycholgical control over. now i already knew you disagreed with this fundemental thing from your previous post(s?) where you harp on about personal responsibility and dont acknowledge that the vast majority of people around us are unfortunately damaged and that it is the job of everyone - including the wealthy and powerful - to play a part in a well-educated and healthy society
On November 04 2011 06:10 Impervious wrote: You're worried about fluorine?
It has been proven that Escherichia coli bacteria (found in feces) can and does find its way into our water supplies, in other words, we are consuming shit. Treatment plants get rid of a lot of this, but there are still "acceptable limits".....
However, we do not run that risk when drinking rum, whiskey, beer or other liquors because alcohol has to go through a distillation process of boiling, filtering and fermenting.
It is my duty to communicate to all of you people who are drinking water, to STOP doing so, it has been proven that it is UNHEALTHY and BAD for you.
Free yourself of shit, drink ALCOHOL!!!
It is better to drink alcohol and talk shit than to drink water and be full of shit.
Not to mention, the correlation between drinking water and death is MUCH stronger than the relation between drinking alcohol and death.
Only a few babies (barely human, let's be honest) have died prior to drinking water. Clearly those are flukes too. Either that, or their parents were too hydrated.
On November 04 2011 01:35 HardMacro wrote: @ TimmyMac. That's blatantly untrue. In fact, the American Dental Association recommends to parents that they should not be using fluoridated water for their babies' formula, precisely because babies are so small that the concentration in tap water is high enough to actually cause health problems in a significant proportion of babies.
This has already been posted but I'm going to post again because I too enjoy calling people out just as much as the rest of you.
well i dont approve of game devs who churn out crap, eg the Wii that was an incredible marketing (manipulation) thing (get fit playing the Wii by waggling your arm a little!), or those Sports games where you bash 2 buttons and the parents are manipulated into buying it because they think its actually any fucking good.
of course we have personal responsibility but take a look around, we're already brainwashed and damaged, we need to help each other not just shout "be reasonable!" and expect people to understand. thats why we have education. except our "education" extends out of the classroom onto the billboards and magazines and pre-existing constructions and THAT education, by the way, is not in our best interests - its to psychologically damage us for the profit of someone else.
sorry but when you say "fat" i took it to mean what is printed on the label of our food, since we are discussing the food industry and marketing of unhealthy products. i did not realise that you in actual fact meant "the general use of animal or vegetable fat that includes cholesterol, triglycerides,phospholipids, proteins and aminoacids. Interestingly enough the amount of cholesterol in the bloodstream is more dependent on the general fat uptake in your diet then on specific amounts of cholesterol you ingest. This is due to our body being able to regulate the amount of cholesterol it produces base on how much cholesterol is already in your bloodstream. It then manufactures cholesterol from the fats that you have consumed which is where trans and cis fats become important since it regulates the production of LD vs HD cholesterol. All of this however can be easily controlled by regulating the amount of food you take as well as getting regular physical exercise."
i am saying that the people who run the food industry have a responsibility to the people that they have a huge, historic psycholgical control over. now i already knew you disagreed with this fundemental thing from your previous post(s?) where you harp on about personal responsibility and dont acknowledge that the vast majority of people around us are unfortunately damaged and that it is the job of everyone - including the wealthy and powerful - to play a part in a well-educated and healthy society
Well I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. I'm by no means an anarchist who thinks that caveat emptor should be the guiding principle of all interaction between corporation and the public and that government should play no role in protecting the public. However I think that there is already plenty of regulation out there that ensures that what is available to us as far as food and water goes is safe for us. In the US the FDA already regulates the practices of advertising (or as you like to call it brainwashing) and what companies can or can not claim their product will do. Both the FDA and the USDA makes sure that the food that is available to us will not make us sick and is delivered to us in an ethical (by the USDA standards of course) and practical manner. So you say it is the job of everyone to play a part in a well educated and healthy society. I think each person should decide for themselves what they should and should not eat.
On November 04 2011 00:07 HardMacro wrote: I just learn of the dangers of water fluoridation recently, and found out that thankfully my city had a referendum 2 years ago which banned water fluoridation. Currently Canada and the U.S. are two of the few last countries in the world that still fluoridate their water supplies; all other countries have either stopped or never had a fluoridation program to begin with.
Facts:
Fluoride is a VERY toxic poison: more toxic than lead, and only slightly less toxic than arsenic. Acute poisoning kills you, chronic exposure to low doses causes interference with bone formation and lowers intelligence. Its LD50 (dosage required to kill 50% of the test subjects) in humans is estimated to be around 40mg/kg, while adverse health effects occur at around 4mg/kg. Gastrointestinal discomfort caused by sodium fluoride has been observed in concentrations as low as 0.15mg/kg. Guess how much is in our water? 0.8 - 1.2mg / L, meaning about 3-4 mg of fluoride is ingested daily from water alone. Add in the intake from food, natural and toothpaste sources, be glad that you're the large person that weight a ton, and weep for the 40kg lightweights that are chronically poisoned by fluoride.
The fluoride that we drink is NOT processed. Fluoride from industrial waste of the fertilizer industry coming from their pollution scrubbers, goes UNTREATED directly into our drinking water here in North America. The justification? The concentration is low enough. The real justification? $$$.
The overwhelming majority of studies that are pro water fluoridation are either very old and/or terribly flawed. In fact, the American Dental Association has been repeatedly criticized for its questionable setup/methods.
Newer studies suggest that the efficacy of water fluoridation is very poor. The majority of the world does not fluoridate their drinking water and for good reason: similar countries (economically, socially, culturally, etc) with no water fluoridation have shown equal or better oral health than those with water fluoridation. If that doesn't convince you, then consider the fact that communities that have banned water fluoridation (like mine) by vote have shown either equal or a continued rate of decline or oral diseases relative to surrounding communities.
What can you do?
If my city can vote by referendum and stop water fluoridation, so can yours. I'm not sure if the legislative procedures in your area are drastically different, but in my city it was a group of students that were responsible for the referendum. They raised awareness within the university first, then went on to gain minor public exposure and support. Eventually, letters and signatures pushed their way to the city council and a referendum was held shortly afterwards.
+ a few million other web pages and youtube videos on the subject.
Edit: apologies, my post was not constructive.
I don't agree with your silly conspiracy theory. It doesn't help when your sole reference explicitly says there is no evidence water fluoridation has any negative health effects at all. So stop attention seeking.
On November 04 2011 01:55 mbr2321 wrote: Don't you get like a flouride thing at the dentists? That foamey shit they put in a mouthguard that tastes like shitty bublegum/mint/coughsyrup/etc.?
And also jacks up the price of your teeth cleaning ~$50 >_>.
I always refuse it. I'll stick with brushing regularly. No cavities ever.
Fluoride is a common ingredient in toothpaste. There is no escaping your Fluoride Overlords
The Flouverlords come for all! EVEN HERE ON THE FORUMS, THEY'RE COMING FOR YOU! [spoiler][/spiler]
All things considered, Flouridation of water is one of medical science's greatest achievements.
On November 04 2011 01:12 Torenhire wrote: Fluoride aside, you should really not drink poison no matter what country, continent, or region you're from.
iunno i always like me a good cyanide smoothie on occassion, personally
Absolutely true. Can't beat those amazing almond flavours.
In high doses fluoride is toxic. You know what else is toxic in high doses? Every other vitamin and mineral that our bodies need! OP should starve himself to death in order to avoid eating all these toxins!
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.noforcedfluoride.org/images/420_Fluorosisbig.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JWEJj.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2qc3M.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://cleverocity.com/albums/TheSeriesHasLanded/fu_1ACVO2_222.sized.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YkspA.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IHmnX.jpg)
[/spiler]
