On November 04 2011 05:12 FFGenerations wrote: you are saying (in some convoluted fashion) that "production of food" is good for humanity. its an interesting perception but it is very limited dont you think? the industry is manipulative and does what it does for profit margins, not for the benefit of "the starving africans".
do you really think the 1st world and 3rd world are treated as the same market? perhaps i should have been more clear but i was not saying that it is the starving africans that are being manipulated into eating (and enjoying) poor-quality food.
i was talking about us guys, and our mothers, and our grandmothers, who go to the supermarket and wade through stacks upon stacks of dangerous processed products (tho beautifully packaged and advertised) with labels like "no added fat!" that we gobble down because we are coerced and controlled by the misinformation and irresponsibility of those who have power over us
fat doesnt clog your arteries, cholesterol does via the conversion of carbohydrates . every "Low fat!!!" label you see is a humongous and tragic FUCK YOU to the public who know no better
I have a big problem with the general propoganda against the food industry. Films like "food inc" or "supersize me" don't scare me but quite honestly make me angry because of the horrible spin they put on a complex issue. Food inc is not "The Jungle" of our generation even though I'm sure that that's what it wanted to be. And Supersize me just pissed me off because the guy decided to do something stupid and was praised for it. If I make a movie where I eat nothing but cucumbers for the next 30 days what do you think is going to happen to me and will it really expose the cucumber industry as evil? As far as your profit margins comment, the organic industry is a million times worse since they charge whatever they want for food that is sometimes worse quality then the mass produced food. If you think organic farmers aren't in it for the money then you are mistaken.
Again the big danger of mass production of food is that all of a sudden food becomes cheap and readily available. And because we love food so much we overconsume. The food industry is not to blame for this. Unless you're saying that the food industry shouldn't make food so cheap and readily available to us?
I have to disagree that processed food is somehow more dangerous then the natural stuff you can buy in your local organics aisle. Where are you getting this information from? I've yet to see a comprehensive study that clearly shows that "all-natural organic" has health benefits that processed food doesn't. If you have something like that I'd love to see it. Actually as far as food poisoning goes organic foods are usually considered more dangerous then regular food. The unpasteurized milk movement is a perfect example of dangerous misconceptions about what exactly food processing actually means.
If you mean triglycerides do not clog arteries then you are correct. However when I was referring to "fat" I meant the general use of animal or vegetable fat that includes cholesterol, triglycerides,phospholipids, proteins and aminoacids. Interestingly enough the amount of cholesterol in the bloodstream is more dependent on the general fat uptake in your diet then on specific amounts of cholesterol you ingest. This is due to our body being able to regulate the amount of cholesterol it produces base on how much cholesterol is already in your bloodstream. It then manufactures cholesterol from the fats that you have consumed which is where trans and cis fats become important since it regulates the production of LD vs HD cholesterol. All of this however can be easily controlled by regulating the amount of food you take as well as getting regular physical exercise. It might be nice to blame the evil fat cats at Cargil and Monsanto for making you and those around you fat and unhealthy but then you also have to blame Blizzard for making a game too addicting that I'd rather play it then go to the gym.
Since you said that my last post was too convoluted: TLDR: Food industry makes food. It is not inherently unhealthy. It's up to us to be reasonable with the amount we eat and the physical excersice we take so that we stay healthy
It has been proven that Escherichia coli bacteria (found in feces) can and does find its way into our water supplies, in other words, we are consuming shit. Treatment plants get rid of a lot of this, but there are still "acceptable limits".....
However, we do not run that risk when drinking rum, whiskey, beer or other liquors because alcohol has to go through a distillation process of boiling, filtering and fermenting.
It is my duty to communicate to all of you people who are drinking water, to STOP doing so, it has been proven that it is UNHEALTHY and BAD for you.
Free yourself of shit, drink ALCOHOL!!!
It is better to drink alcohol and talk shit than to drink water and be full of shit.
On November 04 2011 05:12 FFGenerations wrote: you are saying (in some convoluted fashion) that "production of food" is good for humanity. its an interesting perception but it is very limited dont you think? the industry is manipulative and does what it does for profit margins, not for the benefit of "the starving africans".
do you really think the 1st world and 3rd world are treated as the same market? perhaps i should have been more clear but i was not saying that it is the starving africans that are being manipulated into eating (and enjoying) poor-quality food.
i was talking about us guys, and our mothers, and our grandmothers, who go to the supermarket and wade through stacks upon stacks of dangerous processed products (tho beautifully packaged and advertised) with labels like "no added fat!" that we gobble down because we are coerced and controlled by the misinformation and irresponsibility of those who have power over us
fat doesnt clog your arteries, cholesterol does via the conversion of carbohydrates . every "Low fat!!!" label you see is a humongous and tragic FUCK YOU to the public who know no better
I have a big problem with the general propoganda against the food industry. Films like "food inc" or "supersize me" don't scare me but quite honestly make me angry because of the horrible spin they put on a complex issue. Food inc is not "The Jungle" of our generation even though I'm sure that that's what it wanted to be. And Supersize me just pissed me off because the guy decided to do something stupid and was praised for it. If I make a movie where I eat nothing but cucumbers for the next 30 days what do you think is going to happen to me and will it really expose the cucumber industry as evil? As far as your profit margins comment, the organic industry is a million times worse since they charge whatever they want for food that is sometimes worse quality then the mass produced food. If you think organic farmers aren't in it for the money then you are mistaken.
Again the big danger of mass production of food is that all of a sudden food becomes cheap and readily available. And because we love food so much we overconsume. The food industry is not to blame for this. Unless you're saying that the food industry shouldn't make food so cheap and readily available to us?
I have to disagree that processed food is somehow more dangerous then the natural stuff you can buy in your local organics aisle. Where are you getting this information from? I've yet to see a comprehensive study that clearly shows that "all-natural organic" has health benefits that processed food doesn't. If you have something like that I'd love to see it. Actually as far as food poisoning goes organic foods are usually considered more dangerous then regular food. The unpasteurized milk movement is a perfect example of dangerous misconceptions about what exactly food processing actually means.
If you mean triglycerides do not clog arteries then you are correct. However when I was referring to "fat" I meant the general use of animal or vegetable fat that includes cholesterol, triglycerides,phospholipids, proteins and aminoacids. Interestingly enough the amount of cholesterol in the bloodstream is more dependent on the general fat uptake in your diet then on specific amounts of cholesterol you ingest. This is due to our body being able to regulate the amount of cholesterol it produces base on how much cholesterol is already in your bloodstream. It then manufactures cholesterol from the fats that you have consumed which is where trans and cis fats become important since it regulates the production of LD vs HD cholesterol. All of this however can be easily controlled by regulating the amount of food you take as well as getting regular physical exercise. It might be nice to blame the evil fat cats at Cargil and Monsanto for making you and those around you fat and unhealthy but then you also have to blame Blizzard for making a game too addicting that I'd rather play it then go to the gym.
Since you said that my last post was too convoluted: TLDR: Food industry makes food. It is not inherently unhealthy. It's up to us to be reasonable with the amount we eat and the physical excersice we take so that we stay healthy
well i dont approve of game devs who churn out crap, eg the Wii that was an incredible marketing (manipulation) thing (get fit playing the Wii by waggling your arm a little!), or those Sports games where you bash 2 buttons and the parents are manipulated into buying it because they think its actually any fucking good.
of course we have personal responsibility but take a look around, we're already brainwashed and damaged, we need to help each other not just shout "be reasonable!" and expect people to understand. thats why we have education. except our "education" extends out of the classroom onto the billboards and magazines and pre-existing constructions and THAT education, by the way, is not in our best interests - its to psychologically damage us for the profit of someone else.
sorry but when you say "fat" i took it to mean what is printed on the label of our food, since we are discussing the food industry and marketing of unhealthy products. i did not realise that you in actual fact meant "the general use of animal or vegetable fat that includes cholesterol, triglycerides,phospholipids, proteins and aminoacids. Interestingly enough the amount of cholesterol in the bloodstream is more dependent on the general fat uptake in your diet then on specific amounts of cholesterol you ingest. This is due to our body being able to regulate the amount of cholesterol it produces base on how much cholesterol is already in your bloodstream. It then manufactures cholesterol from the fats that you have consumed which is where trans and cis fats become important since it regulates the production of LD vs HD cholesterol. All of this however can be easily controlled by regulating the amount of food you take as well as getting regular physical exercise."
i am saying that the people who run the food industry have a responsibility to the people that they have a huge, historic psycholgical control over. now i already knew you disagreed with this fundemental thing from your previous post(s?) where you harp on about personal responsibility and dont acknowledge that the vast majority of people around us are unfortunately damaged and that it is the job of everyone - including the wealthy and powerful - to play a part in a well-educated and healthy society
On November 04 2011 06:10 Impervious wrote: You're worried about fluorine?
It has been proven that Escherichia coli bacteria (found in feces) can and does find its way into our water supplies, in other words, we are consuming shit. Treatment plants get rid of a lot of this, but there are still "acceptable limits".....
However, we do not run that risk when drinking rum, whiskey, beer or other liquors because alcohol has to go through a distillation process of boiling, filtering and fermenting.
It is my duty to communicate to all of you people who are drinking water, to STOP doing so, it has been proven that it is UNHEALTHY and BAD for you.
Free yourself of shit, drink ALCOHOL!!!
It is better to drink alcohol and talk shit than to drink water and be full of shit.
Not to mention, the correlation between drinking water and death is MUCH stronger than the relation between drinking alcohol and death.
Only a few babies (barely human, let's be honest) have died prior to drinking water. Clearly those are flukes too. Either that, or their parents were too hydrated.
On November 04 2011 01:35 HardMacro wrote: @ TimmyMac. That's blatantly untrue. In fact, the American Dental Association recommends to parents that they should not be using fluoridated water for their babies' formula, precisely because babies are so small that the concentration in tap water is high enough to actually cause health problems in a significant proportion of babies.
This has already been posted but I'm going to post again because I too enjoy calling people out just as much as the rest of you.
well i dont approve of game devs who churn out crap, eg the Wii that was an incredible marketing (manipulation) thing (get fit playing the Wii by waggling your arm a little!), or those Sports games where you bash 2 buttons and the parents are manipulated into buying it because they think its actually any fucking good.
of course we have personal responsibility but take a look around, we're already brainwashed and damaged, we need to help each other not just shout "be reasonable!" and expect people to understand. thats why we have education. except our "education" extends out of the classroom onto the billboards and magazines and pre-existing constructions and THAT education, by the way, is not in our best interests - its to psychologically damage us for the profit of someone else.
sorry but when you say "fat" i took it to mean what is printed on the label of our food, since we are discussing the food industry and marketing of unhealthy products. i did not realise that you in actual fact meant "the general use of animal or vegetable fat that includes cholesterol, triglycerides,phospholipids, proteins and aminoacids. Interestingly enough the amount of cholesterol in the bloodstream is more dependent on the general fat uptake in your diet then on specific amounts of cholesterol you ingest. This is due to our body being able to regulate the amount of cholesterol it produces base on how much cholesterol is already in your bloodstream. It then manufactures cholesterol from the fats that you have consumed which is where trans and cis fats become important since it regulates the production of LD vs HD cholesterol. All of this however can be easily controlled by regulating the amount of food you take as well as getting regular physical exercise."
i am saying that the people who run the food industry have a responsibility to the people that they have a huge, historic psycholgical control over. now i already knew you disagreed with this fundemental thing from your previous post(s?) where you harp on about personal responsibility and dont acknowledge that the vast majority of people around us are unfortunately damaged and that it is the job of everyone - including the wealthy and powerful - to play a part in a well-educated and healthy society
Well I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. I'm by no means an anarchist who thinks that caveat emptor should be the guiding principle of all interaction between corporation and the public and that government should play no role in protecting the public. However I think that there is already plenty of regulation out there that ensures that what is available to us as far as food and water goes is safe for us. In the US the FDA already regulates the practices of advertising (or as you like to call it brainwashing) and what companies can or can not claim their product will do. Both the FDA and the USDA makes sure that the food that is available to us will not make us sick and is delivered to us in an ethical (by the USDA standards of course) and practical manner. So you say it is the job of everyone to play a part in a well educated and healthy society. I think each person should decide for themselves what they should and should not eat.
On November 04 2011 00:07 HardMacro wrote: I just learn of the dangers of water fluoridation recently, and found out that thankfully my city had a referendum 2 years ago which banned water fluoridation. Currently Canada and the U.S. are two of the few last countries in the world that still fluoridate their water supplies; all other countries have either stopped or never had a fluoridation program to begin with.
Facts:
Fluoride is a VERY toxic poison: more toxic than lead, and only slightly less toxic than arsenic. Acute poisoning kills you, chronic exposure to low doses causes interference with bone formation and lowers intelligence. Its LD50 (dosage required to kill 50% of the test subjects) in humans is estimated to be around 40mg/kg, while adverse health effects occur at around 4mg/kg. Gastrointestinal discomfort caused by sodium fluoride has been observed in concentrations as low as 0.15mg/kg. Guess how much is in our water? 0.8 - 1.2mg / L, meaning about 3-4 mg of fluoride is ingested daily from water alone. Add in the intake from food, natural and toothpaste sources, be glad that you're the large person that weight a ton, and weep for the 40kg lightweights that are chronically poisoned by fluoride.
The fluoride that we drink is NOT processed. Fluoride from industrial waste of the fertilizer industry coming from their pollution scrubbers, goes UNTREATED directly into our drinking water here in North America. The justification? The concentration is low enough. The real justification? $$$.
The overwhelming majority of studies that are pro water fluoridation are either very old and/or terribly flawed. In fact, the American Dental Association has been repeatedly criticized for its questionable setup/methods.
Newer studies suggest that the efficacy of water fluoridation is very poor. The majority of the world does not fluoridate their drinking water and for good reason: similar countries (economically, socially, culturally, etc) with no water fluoridation have shown equal or better oral health than those with water fluoridation. If that doesn't convince you, then consider the fact that communities that have banned water fluoridation (like mine) by vote have shown either equal or a continued rate of decline or oral diseases relative to surrounding communities.
What can you do?
If my city can vote by referendum and stop water fluoridation, so can yours. I'm not sure if the legislative procedures in your area are drastically different, but in my city it was a group of students that were responsible for the referendum. They raised awareness within the university first, then went on to gain minor public exposure and support. Eventually, letters and signatures pushed their way to the city council and a referendum was held shortly afterwards.
+ a few million other web pages and youtube videos on the subject.
Edit: apologies, my post was not constructive.
I don't agree with your silly conspiracy theory. It doesn't help when your sole reference explicitly says there is no evidence water fluoridation has any negative health effects at all. So stop attention seeking.
On November 04 2011 01:55 mbr2321 wrote: Don't you get like a flouride thing at the dentists? That foamey shit they put in a mouthguard that tastes like shitty bublegum/mint/coughsyrup/etc.?
And also jacks up the price of your teeth cleaning ~$50 >_>.
I always refuse it. I'll stick with brushing regularly. No cavities ever.
Fluoride is a common ingredient in toothpaste. There is no escaping your Fluoride Overlords
The Flouverlords come for all! EVEN HERE ON THE FORUMS, THEY'RE COMING FOR YOU! [spoiler][/spiler]
All things considered, Flouridation of water is one of medical science's greatest achievements.
On November 04 2011 01:12 Torenhire wrote: Fluoride aside, you should really not drink poison no matter what country, continent, or region you're from.
iunno i always like me a good cyanide smoothie on occassion, personally
Absolutely true. Can't beat those amazing almond flavours.
In high doses fluoride is toxic. You know what else is toxic in high doses? Every other vitamin and mineral that our bodies need! OP should starve himself to death in order to avoid eating all these toxins!
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IHmnX.jpg)
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