• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:33
CEST 21:33
KST 04:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League36Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.164Rollback Netcode in Brood War1355.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
Server Blocker SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact No more sc2 streamers on team liquid? Stellar Fest 2 Replay Pack Terran AddOns placement
Tourneys
WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Mineral gathering rate (boosted) for each patch Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11221 users

My Thoughts on EG/Puma - Page 21

Blogs > Liquid`TLO
Post a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 29 Next All
Azrepoman
Profile Joined February 2011
United States13 Posts
July 22 2011 19:18 GMT
#401
I have to disagree with you TLO sorry. This is how professional sports team run (at least in America). If there is a player that's a free agent or on the waiver wire, other teams will try to snatch them up even without "caring about consequences towards third parties." EG had no responsibility to contact TSL regarding their attempt to acquire Puma IMHO!

Also, Milkis's tweet "Puma gets released from TSL due to Evil Geniuses" puts a bad image on EG that I feel is not deserving. It isn't due to EG. It is TSL's mistake of not locking a player down and is now paying the price for it. Plain and simple.
"We don't live in a world of reality, we live in a world of perceptions." Gerald J. Simmons
TheButtonmen
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada1403 Posts
July 22 2011 19:19 GMT
#402
On July 23 2011 04:14 adeezy wrote:
Another thing I don't understand is people looking to defend EG, what's in it for you and how would you know if you aren't part of the organization. Just look at how much community backlash and controversy occured, if you still agree with their decision while acknowledging what has resulted, then you are just plain naive.


Another thing I don't understand is people looking to mindlessly bandwagon this, what's in it for you and how would you know anything if you aren't part of the organization. Just look at how much community backlash and controversy occured, if you still agree with the community mindlessly bandwagoning without even trying to get the facts while acknowledging what has resulted, then you are just plain naive.

Goes both ways.
QuasarStarcraft
Profile Joined November 2010
United States46 Posts
July 22 2011 19:20 GMT
#403
On July 23 2011 04:15 dere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:
Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports?


Not bashing you but communication moves entirely way to fast for that now-a-days. Why would we EVEN want a lesser standard? I want as much information as possible as soon as possible.

I visit, TL, Reddit, wellplayed.org and players twitter accounts to get that information as soon as possible. I don't want to wait for a true journalist to spin a story out. You know the old saying there are a million sides of the story and I want to see all of them. I'll decide who the good guy is or bad guy.


Thats up to you but we listen to news because 99 times out of 100 true journalists check their facts. If they don't they lose their job. I'm not bashing anyone here but to say that you would rather hear information than wait a bit and actually know what is going on is just silly. We have this thing called slander which basically means if you are reporting false information about me I can sue you
"If it's worth killing it's worth overkilling" -My Roommate
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
July 22 2011 19:23 GMT
#404
1. EG wants a top level Korean player.
2. Top level Koreans come over to NASL finals.
3. EG hands out cards seeing if anyone is interested.
4. Puma is interested and talks to EG staff, when they find out he is open to the idea of working for them, has no contract and no salary they need to compete with they lay out what they are prepared to offer, Puma is interested but he wants to be the one to talk to his coach rather then EG, EG agrees.
5. Puma talks to his coach, coach isn't impressed and thinks that Puma and EG have gone and signed behind his back. (Please note that EG and Puma haven't signed or agreed to anything yet.)
6. Coach feels disrespected and starts this whole thing with his posts.
7. The standard drama fueled shitfest occurs.
8. EG finds out about all of this.
9. Coach clarifies what he meant / what happened as mis-communications start to get cleared up (hell he even throws Puma a goodbye party)
10. EG speaks out on Lo3, saying they didn't do anything wrong and they followed their potential new players wishs. (Again note that EG and Puma still haven't signed anything still.)
11. Dramallamas continue to frolic.
12. EG opens mouth and inserts foot re: what team liquid is for (while I agree partially with them this sure as hell wasn't the time).
13. Even more shit hits the fan as TL defends one of their own.

first of all the goodbye party was way before step 9, it was before step 6 from every indication.
Also despite the fact that no contract was signed, at least coach lee and likely puma felt it was concrete enough to go forward with this.

I would say that the point at which eg should have contacted coach lee is after step 3 and before step 4, before laying out their offer.
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
sickoota
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada918 Posts
July 22 2011 19:26 GMT
#405
People are seriously misunderstanding what is required of journalism. Journalists have no obligation to wait for anyone to tell their story. What do you think "breaking news" would look like if you had to wait for everyone to get their PR division rolling? If you are late on your press release that doesn't mean journalists don't have a right to rely on the sources they already have to construct a story.
I could spend a while with that smile
adeezy
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1428 Posts
July 22 2011 19:27 GMT
#406
On July 23 2011 04:19 TheButtonmen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:14 adeezy wrote:
Another thing I don't understand is people looking to defend EG, what's in it for you and how would you know if you aren't part of the organization. Just look at how much community backlash and controversy occured, if you still agree with their decision while acknowledging what has resulted, then you are just plain naive.


Another thing I don't understand is people looking to mindlessly bandwagon this, what's in it for you and how would you know anything if you aren't part of the organization. Just look at how much community backlash and controversy occured, if you still agree with the community mindlessly bandwagoning without even trying to get the facts while acknowledging what has resulted, then you are just plain naive.

Goes both ways.


im acknowledging how much controversy and backlash is going on not just from the community but players like TLO who are acknowledging how bad of a move it was from EG. On the contrary youre just bandwagonning the defense it seems

Facts? If you want to look at the facts all signs point to EG being hte bad guys
I asked my friend how the ratio at a party was, he replied. "Let's just say for every guy there was two dudes."
QuasarStarcraft
Profile Joined November 2010
United States46 Posts
July 22 2011 19:28 GMT
#407
On July 23 2011 04:27 adeezy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:19 TheButtonmen wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:14 adeezy wrote:
Another thing I don't understand is people looking to defend EG, what's in it for you and how would you know if you aren't part of the organization. Just look at how much community backlash and controversy occured, if you still agree with their decision while acknowledging what has resulted, then you are just plain naive.


Another thing I don't understand is people looking to mindlessly bandwagon this, what's in it for you and how would you know anything if you aren't part of the organization. Just look at how much community backlash and controversy occured, if you still agree with the community mindlessly bandwagoning without even trying to get the facts while acknowledging what has resulted, then you are just plain naive.

Goes both ways.


im acknowledging how much controversy and backlash is going on not just from the community but players like TLO who are acknowledging how bad of a move it was from EG. On the contrary youre just bandwagonning the defense it seems

Facts? If you want to look at the facts all signs point to EG being hte bad guys


Question, what facts?
"If it's worth killing it's worth overkilling" -My Roommate
TBO
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany1350 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 19:30:06
July 22 2011 19:28 GMT
#408
On July 23 2011 04:20 QuasarStarcraft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:15 dere wrote:
On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:
Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports?


Not bashing you but communication moves entirely way to fast for that now-a-days. Why would we EVEN want a lesser standard? I want as much information as possible as soon as possible.

I visit, TL, Reddit, wellplayed.org and players twitter accounts to get that information as soon as possible. I don't want to wait for a true journalist to spin a story out. You know the old saying there are a million sides of the story and I want to see all of them. I'll decide who the good guy is or bad guy.


Thats up to you but we listen to news because 99 times out of 100 true journalists check their facts. If they don't they lose their job. I'm not bashing anyone here but to say that you would rather hear information than wait a bit and actually know what is going on is just silly. We have this thing called slander which basically means if you are reporting false information about me I can sue you


can you point out the things in the playxp article which are false information?

On July 23 2011 04:26 sickoota wrote:
People are seriously misunderstanding what is required of journalism. Journalists have no obligation to wait for anyone to tell their story. What do you think "breaking news" would look like if you had to wait for everyone to get their PR division rolling? If you are late on your press release that doesn't mean journalists don't have a right to rely on the sources they already have to construct a story.


this exactly... journalists should not post stuff from unreliable sources but they don't need to wait for everyones perspective. IF that was needed, news could be denied by just never providing an answer
Seicianto
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom9 Posts
July 22 2011 19:29 GMT
#409
Some may or may not disagree with me, but I don't feel like it is TLO's place to really comment on this situation, as being on a rival team to EG, it just doesn't seem right to me. I think that people are being extremely harsh to EG having the opinion that they are doing wrong and acting without morals and so forth, however I am of the firm belief that this is the fault of Korean teams own Naivety. It strikes me that the teams in Korea have an attitude along the lines of, "we don't need to contract players, nobody would ever take our players (as I'm guessing Korean find it "immoral" to take from other Korean teams) and why would a Korean player ever want to or think of joining a foreign team cuz the GSL is so super awesome." Well they just shot themselves in the foot as I see it, if there are no contracts, why should a team talk to the coach first, EG did the decent thing and suggested talking to the TSL coach. Also, creating an opinion as a lot of people did just off of the TSL's coach is extremely single-minded, as I'm sure the TSL coach is frustrated and had an outburst of sorts. EG do not need to apologise for trying to do business, I feel Alex on WoC made some very good comments while trying to remain profession. Btw, I have no preference of team, in case you are wondering.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 19:35:32
July 22 2011 19:30 GMT
#410
On July 23 2011 04:18 JadedKnight wrote:
I have to disagree with you TLO sorry. This is how professional sports team run (at least in America). If there is a player that's a free agent or on the waiver wire, other teams will try to snatch them up even without "caring about consequences towards third parties." EG had no responsibility to contact TSL regarding their attempt to acquire Puma IMHO!

Also, Milkis's tweet "Puma gets released from TSL due to Evil Geniuses" puts a bad image on EG that I feel is not deserving. It isn't due to EG. It is TSL's mistake of not locking a player down and is now paying the price for it. Plain and simple.


If I'm in Lee's shoes. I have no choice but to release the said player because he's already been compromised. American teams work a lot differently across the board. If we're talking about MLB/NHL/NBA/NFL (creme of the crop) then they have certain policies in place for code of conduct, free agency and signing players from other organizations.

As for Milkes comments on Twitter, once again. That's his personal account man. He can say whatever the f he wants on his own Twitter. He's allowed to have an opinion on the matter and that is separate from the articles/interviews he translates. I don't know how some of you can keep missing that point.

You remember how your professors always told you never to cite Wikipedia in your assignments? Same rules apply to Twitter.

Twitter is only used for breaking stories.

On July 23 2011 04:29 Seicianto wrote:
Some may or may not disagree with me, but I don't feel like it is TLO's place to really comment on this situation, as being on a rival team to EG, it just doesn't seem right to me. I think that people are being extremely harsh to EG having the opinion that they are doing wrong and acting without morals and so forth, however I am of the firm belief that this is the fault of Korean teams own Naivety. It strikes me that the teams in Korea have an attitude along the lines of, "we don't need to contract players, nobody would ever take our players (as I'm guessing Korean find it "immoral" to take from other Korean teams) and why would a Korean player ever want to or think of joining a foreign team cuz the GSL is so super awesome." Well they just shot themselves in the foot as I see it, if there are no contracts, why should a team talk to the coach first, EG did the decent thing and suggested talking to the TSL coach. Also, creating an opinion as a lot of people did just off of the TSL's coach is extremely single-minded, as I'm sure the TSL coach is frustrated and had an outburst of sorts. EG do not need to apologise for trying to do business, I feel Alex on WoC made some very good comments while trying to remain profession. Btw, I have no preference of team, in case you are wondering.


Freedom of speech. The guy is well embedded in the scene, so he can offer the community something most people cannot. He's entitled to his opinion just the same as you are regardless of being on rival teams.

Alex made a fool of himself on WoC. I couldn't disagree with you more.
QuasarStarcraft
Profile Joined November 2010
United States46 Posts
July 22 2011 19:31 GMT
#411
On July 23 2011 04:28 TBO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:20 QuasarStarcraft wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:15 dere wrote:
On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:
Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports?


Not bashing you but communication moves entirely way to fast for that now-a-days. Why would we EVEN want a lesser standard? I want as much information as possible as soon as possible.

I visit, TL, Reddit, wellplayed.org and players twitter accounts to get that information as soon as possible. I don't want to wait for a true journalist to spin a story out. You know the old saying there are a million sides of the story and I want to see all of them. I'll decide who the good guy is or bad guy.


Thats up to you but we listen to news because 99 times out of 100 true journalists check their facts. If they don't they lose their job. I'm not bashing anyone here but to say that you would rather hear information than wait a bit and actually know what is going on is just silly. We have this thing called slander which basically means if you are reporting false information about me I can sue you


can you point out the things in the playxp article which are false information?


I'm not saying anything in any article is false I'm just saying that I would rather people take the time to write up correct facts and be sure that they are correct than just yelling out everything they hear the minute they hear it
"If it's worth killing it's worth overkilling" -My Roommate
UltimateHurl
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland591 Posts
July 22 2011 19:32 GMT
#412
To be honest the person I feel worst for in this situation is Puma. There's lots of talk of if what EG did was good or bad, or if the Koreans should just adapt and not get to be 'culturally-offended' by the way things happened, but at the end of the day Puma was the one who had to go talk to his coach, who as far as I know is a big deal in Korea, and say 'I'm gone', before he had a contract signed. Puma shouldn't have to do that, for the simple reason that it burns bridges. Because of the way it's been done his coach is offended and EG now have a PR disaster on their hands that means they could just turn around and say 'you aren't worth our trouble'. Whatever about translations or opinions, it should've been done in a professional manner that didn't put Puma's career at risk.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
July 22 2011 19:34 GMT
#413
On July 23 2011 04:29 Seicianto wrote:
Some may or may not disagree with me, but I don't feel like it is TLO's place to really comment on this situation, as being on a rival team to EG, it just doesn't seem right to me. I think that people are being extremely harsh to EG having the opinion that they are doing wrong and acting without morals and so forth, however I am of the firm belief that this is the fault of Korean teams own Naivety. It strikes me that the teams in Korea have an attitude along the lines of, "we don't need to contract players, nobody would ever take our players (as I'm guessing Korean find it "immoral" to take from other Korean teams) and why would a Korean player ever want to or think of joining a foreign team cuz the GSL is so super awesome." Well they just shot themselves in the foot as I see it, if there are no contracts, why should a team talk to the coach first, EG did the decent thing and suggested talking to the TSL coach. Also, creating an opinion as a lot of people did just off of the TSL's coach is extremely single-minded, as I'm sure the TSL coach is frustrated and had an outburst of sorts. EG do not need to apologise for trying to do business, I feel Alex on WoC made some very good comments while trying to remain profession. Btw, I have no preference of team, in case you are wondering.

hes not speaking as a spokesperson as liquid.
hes just the player and this is a public forum so he can say what he wants.
I think he was especially upset about milkis getting ambushed on WoP.
besides EG doesnt give a shit what other people think why shouldnt he make his opinion known?

personally, and i think i speak for a lot of people, i like it when pros speak their minds.
TBO
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany1350 Posts
July 22 2011 19:34 GMT
#414
On July 23 2011 04:31 QuasarStarcraft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:28 TBO wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:20 QuasarStarcraft wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:15 dere wrote:
On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:
Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports?


Not bashing you but communication moves entirely way to fast for that now-a-days. Why would we EVEN want a lesser standard? I want as much information as possible as soon as possible.

I visit, TL, Reddit, wellplayed.org and players twitter accounts to get that information as soon as possible. I don't want to wait for a true journalist to spin a story out. You know the old saying there are a million sides of the story and I want to see all of them. I'll decide who the good guy is or bad guy.


Thats up to you but we listen to news because 99 times out of 100 true journalists check their facts. If they don't they lose their job. I'm not bashing anyone here but to say that you would rather hear information than wait a bit and actually know what is going on is just silly. We have this thing called slander which basically means if you are reporting false information about me I can sue you


can you point out the things in the playxp article which are false information?


I'm not saying anything in any article is false I'm just saying that I would rather people take the time to write up correct facts and be sure that they are correct than just yelling out everything they hear the minute they hear it
#

As a general statement I can agree with this, however in this specific context Milkis got attacked for translating a correct statement from a reliable source (playxp) who themselves had a reliable source (Coach of TSL).
QuasarStarcraft
Profile Joined November 2010
United States46 Posts
July 22 2011 19:36 GMT
#415
On July 23 2011 04:34 TBO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:31 QuasarStarcraft wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:28 TBO wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:20 QuasarStarcraft wrote:
On July 23 2011 04:15 dere wrote:
On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:
Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports?


Not bashing you but communication moves entirely way to fast for that now-a-days. Why would we EVEN want a lesser standard? I want as much information as possible as soon as possible.

I visit, TL, Reddit, wellplayed.org and players twitter accounts to get that information as soon as possible. I don't want to wait for a true journalist to spin a story out. You know the old saying there are a million sides of the story and I want to see all of them. I'll decide who the good guy is or bad guy.


Thats up to you but we listen to news because 99 times out of 100 true journalists check their facts. If they don't they lose their job. I'm not bashing anyone here but to say that you would rather hear information than wait a bit and actually know what is going on is just silly. We have this thing called slander which basically means if you are reporting false information about me I can sue you


can you point out the things in the playxp article which are false information?


I'm not saying anything in any article is false I'm just saying that I would rather people take the time to write up correct facts and be sure that they are correct than just yelling out everything they hear the minute they hear it
#

As a general statement I can agree with this, however in this specific context Milkis got attacked for translating a correct statement from a reliable source (playxp) who themselves had a reliable source (Coach of TSL).


Thats what I'm saying as a general thing I understand that playxp did their work and Milkis did his too. Im just saying that if people just listen to everything anyone says for the sake of getting a story out as fast as they can its a terrible idea and it makes all news untrustworthy
"If it's worth killing it's worth overkilling" -My Roommate
Seicianto
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom9 Posts
July 22 2011 19:38 GMT
#416
On July 23 2011 04:34 Condor Hero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:29 Seicianto wrote:
Some may or may not disagree with me, but I don't feel like it is TLO's place to really comment on this situation, as being on a rival team to EG, it just doesn't seem right to me. I think that people are being extremely harsh to EG having the opinion that they are doing wrong and acting without morals and so forth, however I am of the firm belief that this is the fault of Korean teams own Naivety. It strikes me that the teams in Korea have an attitude along the lines of, "we don't need to contract players, nobody would ever take our players (as I'm guessing Korean find it "immoral" to take from other Korean teams) and why would a Korean player ever want to or think of joining a foreign team cuz the GSL is so super awesome." Well they just shot themselves in the foot as I see it, if there are no contracts, why should a team talk to the coach first, EG did the decent thing and suggested talking to the TSL coach. Also, creating an opinion as a lot of people did just off of the TSL's coach is extremely single-minded, as I'm sure the TSL coach is frustrated and had an outburst of sorts. EG do not need to apologise for trying to do business, I feel Alex on WoC made some very good comments while trying to remain profession. Btw, I have no preference of team, in case you are wondering.

hes not speaking as a spokesperson as liquid.
hes just the player and this is a public forum so he can say what he wants.
I think he was especially upset about milkis getting ambushed on WoP.
besides EG doesnt give a shit what other people think why shouldnt he make his opinion known?

personally, and i think i speak for a lot of people, i like it when pros speak their minds.


I agree on a level with you, you have a good point. Although he is still contracted to Team Liquid and every knows his affiliation with Team Liquid. In football (soccer), you wont get very often people from one team talking about something unprofessional on the business side of another rival team, as it would just start a slinging match that would last for existence. I do in a way feel sorry for Milkis, I don't think he really should have been on the show, I don't know how much he knows about business but he didn't seem too knowledgeable.
dere
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States153 Posts
July 22 2011 19:40 GMT
#417
On July 23 2011 04:20 QuasarStarcraft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:15 dere wrote:
On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:
Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports?


Not bashing you but communication moves entirely way to fast for that now-a-days. Why would we EVEN want a lesser standard? I want as much information as possible as soon as possible.

I visit, TL, Reddit, wellplayed.org and players twitter accounts to get that information as soon as possible. I don't want to wait for a true journalist to spin a story out. You know the old saying there are a million sides of the story and I want to see all of them. I'll decide who the good guy is or bad guy.


Thats up to you but we listen to news because 99 times out of 100 true journalists check their facts. If they don't they lose their job. I'm not bashing anyone here but to say that you would rather hear information than wait a bit and actually know what is going on is just silly. We have this thing called slander which basically means if you are reporting false information about me I can sue you


Its not silly at all. Let me guess you waited 18 hours for the PR release for EG? No you didn't. I think someone said it in this thread related to this PuMa stuff but if you're 1 hour behind on the internet you are a day behind in the real world.

eSports has been underground for so long its followers have learned how to get their own information through their own means which are much quicker and multi-faceted compared to the traditional sports media model that Zlasher was suggesting was a standard that we try to adopt.
Tennessee Regional Rankings: http://sc2ranks.com/c/8473/tennessee-region-division/
Oldern
Profile Joined February 2011
Hungary21 Posts
July 22 2011 19:41 GMT
#418
On July 23 2011 04:23 Antoine wrote:
Show nested quote +
1. EG wants a top level Korean player.
2. Top level Koreans come over to NASL finals.
3. EG hands out cards seeing if anyone is interested.
4. Puma is interested and talks to EG staff, when they find out he is open to the idea of working for them, has no contract and no salary they need to compete with they lay out what they are prepared to offer, Puma is interested but he wants to be the one to talk to his coach rather then EG, EG agrees.
5. Puma talks to his coach, coach isn't impressed and thinks that Puma and EG have gone and signed behind his back. (Please note that EG and Puma haven't signed or agreed to anything yet.)
6. Coach feels disrespected and starts this whole thing with his posts.
7. The standard drama fueled shitfest occurs.
8. EG finds out about all of this.
9. Coach clarifies what he meant / what happened as mis-communications start to get cleared up (hell he even throws Puma a goodbye party)
10. EG speaks out on Lo3, saying they didn't do anything wrong and they followed their potential new players wishs. (Again note that EG and Puma still haven't signed anything still.)
11. Dramallamas continue to frolic.
12. EG opens mouth and inserts foot re: what team liquid is for (while I agree partially with them this sure as hell wasn't the time).
13. Even more shit hits the fan as TL defends one of their own.

first of all the goodbye party was way before step 9, it was before step 6 from every indication.
Also despite the fact that no contract was signed, at least coach lee and likely puma felt it was concrete enough to go forward with this.

I would say that the point at which eg should have contacted coach lee is after step 3 and before step 4, before laying out their offer.


I would say that it is not a realistic expectation to have. Feel free to do it in the business world, but if you want to hire someone from the competition, you do not go to their bosses and ask them for permission. Sometimes, rival companies are willing to pay the potential lawsuit that comes from breaching a contract when departing from the previous company.

If Puma was not even under a strict contact, you can be the nicest person in the world and inform everyone about your intentions, but that does not make doing the opposite (just simply seeking the player itself, obviously) anything bad.
crackcc
Profile Joined April 2011
114 Posts
July 22 2011 19:41 GMT
#419
Once again the teddy bears fight about why the bad man did a no-no ! As Ive said before they are all a little to blame but no biggy. No one did anything really bad no need to go into the depths of your imaginations with the what ifs, they should/shouldnt, why etc etc ... Dont forget this is the TL forum and Team liquid is a rival team and although they try to be pretty unbiased its hard for the players/ active team staff not to have a negative view on EG. Especially since they have been long time rivals !
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
July 22 2011 19:44 GMT
#420
On July 23 2011 04:08 TheButtonmen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2011 04:05 Saechiis wrote:
On July 23 2011 03:42 TheButtonmen wrote:
On July 23 2011 03:36 Saechiis wrote:
It's obvious TSL didn't want to get rid PuMa. It's obvious that signing TSL's top player without contacting the manager is sneaky and immoral. It's obvious that the possibility to cheaply sign one of the best players in the world was more important to EG than the, again, obvious backlash it would cause.


...I'm so glad the TL community actually reads and finds out what happened before jumping to conclusions.

Puma has not been signed with EG.
There is nothing signed between Puma and EG.
Puma is the one who requested that EG does not contact his coach.

Again here is to the best of my knowledge how everthing went down based off of the 2 translated interviews, AGs statements on WoC and Xeris comments about EGs recruitment at NASL.


Saying PuMa hasn't "officially" signed yet is as relevant to the discussion as the notion that EG "strictly" didn't do anything illegal. Integrity isn't measurable by paper rules.

Blaming PuMa is even funnier, seriously, EG is a professional organisation, they know damn well they have the moral obligation to create a smooth transition. Pretending they thought PuMa would just go tell his coach he'd be joining EG after having talked to them in a foreign tournament and think there'd be no hard feelings is hilarious. Don't know how you can pretend EG has no part in this.

So in other words you didn't actually read what I linked and you just want to show how angry you are?

Gotcha, don't care, either disagree with the facts I laid out at the link or ignore but don't throw baseless comments about me blaming Puma around.


Classy, claiming I didn't read the link, suggessting I'm spouting (irrational) anger and am either disagreeing or ignoring the "facts" as far as you "interpreted" them while taking the moral high ground by claiming you don't care and avoiding any direct response to my post ... all in one condensed ad-hominem package

I'll quote myself so I can sleep with a clean conscience:

"Blaming PuMa is even funnier, seriously, EG is a professional organisation, they know damn well they have the moral obligation to create a smooth transition. "


Seems pretty clear that I'm blaming EG for lacking/ non-existant contact with the TSL management; referring to the claim that "Puma is the one who requested that EG does not contact his coach" , which is a silly excuse.

I have clearly been stating EG as the subject of my posts, so I don't know where you got the idea I was making "baseless comments" about you blaming PuMa.


I think esports is pretty nice.
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 29 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
01:00
#67
RotterdaM1055
TKL 496
TaKeTV 346
IndyStarCraft 254
SteadfastSC156
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1055
TKL 496
IndyStarCraft 254
SteadfastSC 156
UpATreeSC 82
JuggernautJason70
Railgan 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 16437
Calm 1654
Shuttle 896
Horang2 316
Soulkey 205
BeSt 180
ProTech123
firebathero 104
Dewaltoss 93
Zeus 52
[ Show more ]
Sexy 30
ToSsGirL 19
Hm[arnc] 14
Sacsri 6
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1733
shoxiejesuss1085
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby4015
Liquid`Hasu490
Other Games
FrodaN979
Beastyqt743
ceh9687
B2W.Neo637
mouzStarbuck285
KnowMe215
C9.Mang0157
Pyrionflax137
Chillindude21
MindelVK7
fpsfer 1
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 198
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV788
League of Legends
• Nemesis4704
• TFBlade812
Other Games
• imaqtpie1311
• Shiphtur1118
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
15h 27m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 4h
The PondCast
1d 14h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 15h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.