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On July 23 2011 03:12 Ingebrigtsen wrote:
wrong, and more wrong
slasher has said this forever.
1.
It was the middle of the night when the news broke, people were sleeping...
18 hours isn't that long in the world of announcments.
18 hours is HUGE in the world of announcements. Because you know why? Judging by how fast the TL thread grew, it wasn't the middle of the night for large amounts of people. It'd be one thing if EG maintained total radio silence during that time. Instead, SirScoots and Incontrol were obviously aware of the thread due to their light hearted tweets referencing the Korean articles during that 18 hours.
EG screwed the pooch on PR on this one. A simple statement like "We did not contact Coach Lee because Puma requested that he talk to Coach Lee first" would have quelled a large portion of the firestorm.
Instead, they let it grow and then complained on Weapon of Choice that no one reached out to them for comment. Uh, sure, that's true. But why should someone need to reach out when they obviously already knew about the thread and were joking about it?
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On July 23 2011 02:00 Beyonder wrote:
Oh man the best part about the whole EG-Puma debate was Milkis (a neutral party, translator) being attacked by the EG's Executive director on Weapon of Choice for not contacting EG about their stance, while all he did was translate (and provide an opinion on his own twitter). The hilarity in this situation is AMAZING. EG did not contact coach lee, EG did not try to explain anything, EG did literally nothing. So a translator should be responsible for EG public relations. Fail...
And remember what EG said last time with the TL-EG drama about participation in the EG team league? An official representative of EG made a thread on the tourney and simply said that TeamLiquid did not want to participate. When accused of providing misinformation, EG said "That is not our responsibility! Teamliquid should tell that themselves." And that was an official topic on their own tournament...
Hypocrits.
Haha thanks for the perspective beyonder, its quite good.
I don't think its a huge deal, however it seems like with alot of these esports crises, its the management of them that causes more controversy. (I.E. like attacking milkis, completely uncalled for.) Hopefully EG improves in crisis management and we can have less e-sports drama.
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Well, it's either adapt or perish and the western scene is just growing larger and larger, it comes down to natural selection, the Korean style of running eSport with all it's regulations and incest like mentality doesn't function when it goes to a global scale and I thought people knew this, but I guess the majority haven't followed other global eSport games.
I'd guess a lot of people like to cling onto how it was in SC:BW, but SC2 is a whole new ballgame.
Just trying to keep it real, flame on.
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ya they have double standards.... scoot is sly...idra is cry baby, incontrol is stupid ( said total biscuit came to starcraft just for money....) ..they r very unprofessional themselves....
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On July 23 2011 03:32 Zlasher wrote:
...to show that when someone hears one side of an argument, their mind has subconsciously made up their mind on the story. Whatever EG or AG says from then on will be seen only in the shadow of the original argument and it will become a secondary, and thus side note. When you allow something to blow up like that the mob mentality comes out once again.
Anyone who does that is no better than a sheep. :/
This applies to practically everything.
Let's leave out the name calling please.
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On July 23 2011 03:43 thedz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 03:12 Ingebrigtsen wrote:
wrong, and more wrong
slasher has said this forever.
1.
It was the middle of the night when the news broke, people were sleeping...
18 hours isn't that long in the world of announcments.
18 hours is HUGE in the world of announcements. Because you know why? Judging by how fast the TL thread grew, it wasn't the middle of the night for large amounts of people. It'd be one thing if EG maintained total radio silence during that time. Instead, SirScoots and Incontrol were obviously aware of the thread due to their light hearted tweets referencing the Korean articles during that 18 hours. EG screwed the pooch on PR on this one. A simple statement like "We did not contact Coach Lee because Puma requested that he talk to Coach Lee first" would have quelled a large portion of the firestorm. Instead, they let it grow and then complained on Weapon of Choice that no one reached out to them for comment. Uh, sure, that's true. But why should someone need to reach out when they obviously already knew about the thread and were joking about it?
So you don't want TL to be treated as a source requiring journalistic integrity, but you expect EG to treat it as a source to determine when they need to provide an answer based on how large the thread on the topic gets?
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On July 23 2011 03:35 QuasarStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 03:18 Arkan wrote:
Why is this such an issue, obiously running on "trust and faith" is a completely flawed system and I dont see how for the life of me TSL thought this could at all be viable in the long run. Even if there is no salary, there should always be some sort of contract/agreement outlining rules of entry and departure of the clan/organization.
Manager Lee states that he respects the players decision, but then releases statements showing his disappointment with everything. If he truly feels that TSL is losing out by releasing Puma then why didnt he make a counter-offer to possibly sway the decision? Im sorry folks, but TSL has no one to blame but their managment. Simply having players on teams based on "trust and faith" is not possible in any other professional sport and doesnt make it applicable in esports either. I seriously hope the Korean SC2 overhaul their recruitment process so we dont have to see any of this drama in the future. I don't see why more people don't see it this way. We have rules and regulations because "trust and faith" doesn't work.
It doesn't work only because people are dicks.
The ideal solution is for people to not be dicks.
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5 out of 5, would read again. This blog is about one of the various reasons why I stand where I stand. Too bad for EG, spin is the last thing you need on this ride.
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On July 23 2011 03:59 NightAngel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 03:43 thedz wrote:On July 23 2011 03:12 Ingebrigtsen wrote:
wrong, and more wrong
slasher has said this forever.
1.
It was the middle of the night when the news broke, people were sleeping...
18 hours isn't that long in the world of announcments.
18 hours is HUGE in the world of announcements. Because you know why? Judging by how fast the TL thread grew, it wasn't the middle of the night for large amounts of people. It'd be one thing if EG maintained total radio silence during that time. Instead, SirScoots and Incontrol were obviously aware of the thread due to their light hearted tweets referencing the Korean articles during that 18 hours. EG screwed the pooch on PR on this one. A simple statement like "We did not contact Coach Lee because Puma requested that he talk to Coach Lee first" would have quelled a large portion of the firestorm. Instead, they let it grow and then complained on Weapon of Choice that no one reached out to them for comment. Uh, sure, that's true. But why should someone need to reach out when they obviously already knew about the thread and were joking about it? So you don't want TL to be treated as a source requiring journalistic integrity, but you expect EG to treat it as a source to determine when they need to provide an answer based on how large the thread on the topic gets?
All he's saying is that its EG's fault for letting this situation blow up in their face, they could have presented all the information about their interactions with puma earlier, but didn't. As a result you have all these people who read TSL's reaction without hearing EG's response and its hurting EG. If EG didn't want all this fallout, they should have responded sooner.
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On July 23 2011 03:42 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 03:36 Saechiis wrote:
It's obvious TSL didn't want to get rid PuMa. It's obvious that signing TSL's top player without contacting the manager is sneaky and immoral. It's obvious that the possibility to cheaply sign one of the best players in the world was more important to EG than the, again, obvious backlash it would cause. ...I'm so glad the TL community actually reads and finds out what happened before jumping to conclusions. Puma has not been signed with EG. There is nothing signed between Puma and EG. Puma is the one who requested that EG does not contact his coach.Again here is to the best of my knowledge how everthing went down based off of the 2 translated interviews, AGs statements on WoC and Xeris comments about EGs recruitment at NASL.
Saying PuMa hasn't "officially" signed yet is as relevant to the discussion as the notion that EG "strictly" didn't do anything illegal. Integrity isn't measurable by paper rules.
Blaming PuMa is even funnier, seriously, EG is a professional organisation, they know damn well they have the moral obligation to create a smooth transition. Pretending they thought PuMa would just go tell his coach he'd be joining EG after having talked to them in a foreign tournament and think there'd be no hard feelings is hilarious. Don't know how you can pretend EG has no part in this.
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On July 23 2011 04:02 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 03:59 NightAngel wrote:On July 23 2011 03:43 thedz wrote:On July 23 2011 03:12 Ingebrigtsen wrote:
wrong, and more wrong
slasher has said this forever.
1.
It was the middle of the night when the news broke, people were sleeping...
18 hours isn't that long in the world of announcments.
18 hours is HUGE in the world of announcements. Because you know why? Judging by how fast the TL thread grew, it wasn't the middle of the night for large amounts of people. It'd be one thing if EG maintained total radio silence during that time. Instead, SirScoots and Incontrol were obviously aware of the thread due to their light hearted tweets referencing the Korean articles during that 18 hours. EG screwed the pooch on PR on this one. A simple statement like "We did not contact Coach Lee because Puma requested that he talk to Coach Lee first" would have quelled a large portion of the firestorm. Instead, they let it grow and then complained on Weapon of Choice that no one reached out to them for comment. Uh, sure, that's true. But why should someone need to reach out when they obviously already knew about the thread and were joking about it? So you don't want TL to be treated as a source requiring journalistic integrity, but you expect EG to treat it as a source to determine when they need to provide an answer based on how large the thread on the topic gets? All he's saying is that its EG's fault for letting this situation blow up in their face, they could have presented all the information about their interactions with puma earlier, but didn't. As a result you have all these people who read TSL's reaction without hearing EG's response and its hurting EG. If EG didn't want all this fallout, they should have responded sooner.
I wonder what would have happened if, instead of going to Twitter during an emotional moment, Coach Lee had waited to contact EG and discuss this behind the scenes.
It seems like everyone wants to have management treat TL as a source for journalism, but not anyone else...
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On July 23 2011 03:38 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 03:35 QuasarStarcraft wrote:On July 23 2011 03:18 Arkan wrote:
Why is this such an issue, obiously running on "trust and faith" is a completely flawed system and I dont see how for the life of me TSL thought this could at all be viable in the long run. Even if there is no salary, there should always be some sort of contract/agreement outlining rules of entry and departure of the clan/organization.
Manager Lee states that he respects the players decision, but then releases statements showing his disappointment with everything. If he truly feels that TSL is losing out by releasing Puma then why didnt he make a counter-offer to possibly sway the decision? Im sorry folks, but TSL has no one to blame but their managment. Simply having players on teams based on "trust and faith" is not possible in any other professional sport and doesnt make it applicable in esports either. I seriously hope the Korean SC2 overhaul their recruitment process so we dont have to see any of this drama in the future. I don't see why more people don't see it this way. We have rules and regulations because "trust and faith" doesn't work. It did work 100% perfect, everyone respected the way korea did things, until EG came along.
I don't think its 100% perfect when a player who is not under a contract must ask permission to discuss possibly getting a better deal for himself. Don't some Korean players already have contracts??
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Thank you TLO for posting what a lot of people are thinking. Great job and I wish u good luck in the future 
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After reading the whole thread I only get 1 thing clear, and is that big names in form of players, should be contained when they talk about stuff that might cause trouble in the relations betwheen their team and other teams. Because TLO uninformed blog, and Tyler's hate towards EG funeled in calling people stupid for standing with them to my ears sound really bad. And I will guess a lot others too.
Guys, you should shut up your mouths when talking in public and creating opinion, because I would not be surprised ig EG management is very angry with Team Liquid.
And I thought I had enough hearing about Fabregas every single day <.<
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On July 23 2011 04:05 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 03:42 TheButtonmen wrote:On July 23 2011 03:36 Saechiis wrote:
It's obvious TSL didn't want to get rid PuMa. It's obvious that signing TSL's top player without contacting the manager is sneaky and immoral. It's obvious that the possibility to cheaply sign one of the best players in the world was more important to EG than the, again, obvious backlash it would cause. ...I'm so glad the TL community actually reads and finds out what happened before jumping to conclusions. Puma has not been signed with EG. There is nothing signed between Puma and EG. Puma is the one who requested that EG does not contact his coach.Again here is to the best of my knowledge how everthing went down based off of the 2 translated interviews, AGs statements on WoC and Xeris comments about EGs recruitment at NASL. Saying PuMa hasn't "officially" signed yet is as relevant to the discussion as the notion that EG "strictly" didn't do anything illegal. Integrity isn't measurable by paper rules. Blaming PuMa is even funnier, seriously, EG is a professional organisation, they know damn well they have the moral obligation to create a smooth transition. Pretending they thought PuMa would just go tell his coach he'd be joining EG after having talked to them in a foreign tournament and think there'd be no hard feelings is hilarious. Don't know how you can pretend EG has no part in this.
So in other words you didn't actually read what I linked and you just want to show how angry you are?
Gotcha, don't care, either disagree with the facts I laid out at the link or ignore but don't throw baseless comments about me blaming Puma around.
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On July 23 2011 04:05 NightAngel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 04:02 Fulgrim wrote:On July 23 2011 03:59 NightAngel wrote:On July 23 2011 03:43 thedz wrote:On July 23 2011 03:12 Ingebrigtsen wrote:
wrong, and more wrong
slasher has said this forever.
1.
It was the middle of the night when the news broke, people were sleeping...
18 hours isn't that long in the world of announcments.
18 hours is HUGE in the world of announcements. Because you know why? Judging by how fast the TL thread grew, it wasn't the middle of the night for large amounts of people. It'd be one thing if EG maintained total radio silence during that time. Instead, SirScoots and Incontrol were obviously aware of the thread due to their light hearted tweets referencing the Korean articles during that 18 hours. EG screwed the pooch on PR on this one. A simple statement like "We did not contact Coach Lee because Puma requested that he talk to Coach Lee first" would have quelled a large portion of the firestorm. Instead, they let it grow and then complained on Weapon of Choice that no one reached out to them for comment. Uh, sure, that's true. But why should someone need to reach out when they obviously already knew about the thread and were joking about it? So you don't want TL to be treated as a source requiring journalistic integrity, but you expect EG to treat it as a source to determine when they need to provide an answer based on how large the thread on the topic gets? All he's saying is that its EG's fault for letting this situation blow up in their face, they could have presented all the information about their interactions with puma earlier, but didn't. As a result you have all these people who read TSL's reaction without hearing EG's response and its hurting EG. If EG didn't want all this fallout, they should have responded sooner. I wonder what would have happened if, instead of going to Twitter during an emotional moment, Coach Lee had waited to contact EG and discuss this behind the scenes. It seems like everyone wants to have management treat TL as a source for journalism, but not anyone else...
EG had already approached his player as opposed to going to him first. Why should he go to the management before posting on twitter? I agree that it would have been better to talk to EG first, but you can't blame the manager for his perspective.
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eg seems to stand for excuses general!
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On July 23 2011 04:10 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 04:05 NightAngel wrote:On July 23 2011 04:02 Fulgrim wrote:On July 23 2011 03:59 NightAngel wrote:On July 23 2011 03:43 thedz wrote:On July 23 2011 03:12 Ingebrigtsen wrote:
wrong, and more wrong
slasher has said this forever.
1.
It was the middle of the night when the news broke, people were sleeping...
18 hours isn't that long in the world of announcments.
18 hours is HUGE in the world of announcements. Because you know why? Judging by how fast the TL thread grew, it wasn't the middle of the night for large amounts of people. It'd be one thing if EG maintained total radio silence during that time. Instead, SirScoots and Incontrol were obviously aware of the thread due to their light hearted tweets referencing the Korean articles during that 18 hours. EG screwed the pooch on PR on this one. A simple statement like "We did not contact Coach Lee because Puma requested that he talk to Coach Lee first" would have quelled a large portion of the firestorm. Instead, they let it grow and then complained on Weapon of Choice that no one reached out to them for comment. Uh, sure, that's true. But why should someone need to reach out when they obviously already knew about the thread and were joking about it? So you don't want TL to be treated as a source requiring journalistic integrity, but you expect EG to treat it as a source to determine when they need to provide an answer based on how large the thread on the topic gets? All he's saying is that its EG's fault for letting this situation blow up in their face, they could have presented all the information about their interactions with puma earlier, but didn't. As a result you have all these people who read TSL's reaction without hearing EG's response and its hurting EG. If EG didn't want all this fallout, they should have responded sooner. I wonder what would have happened if, instead of going to Twitter during an emotional moment, Coach Lee had waited to contact EG and discuss this behind the scenes. It seems like everyone wants to have management treat TL as a source for journalism, but not anyone else... EG had already approached his player as opposed to going to him first. Why should he go to the management before posting on twitter? I agree that it would have been better to talk to EG first, but you can't blame the manager for his perspective.
The "they did something bad, so I don't have to take the high ground and can do the same as them" is an immature approach, and I would hope that professionals can rise above it.
I see no reason that this needed to be handled the way it was. That is all I am saying. Two wrongs don't make a right, and the wrong have the choice to rise above and do things the right way.
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Another thing I don't understand is people looking to defend EG, what's in it for you and how would you know if you aren't part of the organization. Just look at how much community backlash and controversy occured, if you still agree with their decision while acknowledging what has resulted, then you are just plain naive.
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On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:
Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports?
Not bashing you but communication moves entirely way to fast for that now-a-days. Why would we EVEN want a lesser standard? I want as much information as possible as soon as possible.
I visit, TL, Reddit, wellplayed.org and players twitter accounts to get that information as soon as possible. I don't want to wait for a true journalist to spin a story out. You know the old saying there are a million sides of the story and I want to see all of them. I'll decide who the good guy is or bad guy.
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EPT
