I hope you guys might go so far as to bring down warnings/ the banhammer on some of the people who QQed with ad hominem attacks and curse words, because it really just spoils the entire atmosphere as a whole.
In the Dreamhack thread, I had to post this because I got so frustrated:
After such an amazing tournament, I really can't believe how much whining we're getting about MC winning, especially since he was the huge favorite anyway. I love White-Ra, and he played incredibly well overall, but the fact that he was unable to scout his own base made him lose the game, and MC was just plain ballsy with that last move.
Cheesing isn't cheating, and you play to win. Period. If you don't like the fact that a player's top priority is to win instead of entertain you, then you probably shouldn't be watching any tournament with a prize pool. When money is on the line, players use strategies that they're comfortable with. You're not always going to see amazing games or crazy builds.
If you don't like the fact that MC tricked White-Ra in the last game, then just talk about something not related to MC. Or don't post at all. The QQ regarding MC's strategy doesn't need to be included. Post about how awesome White-Ra played overall, or how Dreamhack was an amazing tournament.
Don't post bullshit about how MC needs to cheese to win, or how he doesn't have real skill, because his achievements have already proven that he's one of the best SC2 players in the world.
Seriously, the day people WOULDN'T be upset about seeing their favorite player knocked out by silly cheese is the day I'd be worried about e-sport as a concept. Stop whining about whining already, it's healthy and crucial to the scene that people actually do care.
On April 13 2011 06:27 boesthius wrote: Have you forgotten about boxer's bunker rushes vs yellow? Jaedong's 6pool vs Flash? Julyzerg's 5pool game 1 and then 9pool drone drill game 2 vs best in the OSL finals? MC's proxy 2 gates in game 5 were smart. SMART.
For some reason, i think 95% of the people bitching in the LR thread don't even know about these games.
Anyway, i didn't watch the games, since i really don't follow Sc2, but based on what you described white-ra deserved to lose. Opening the same build five games in a row is stupid, and something that should be punished.
On April 13 2011 07:47 Longshank wrote: Seriously, the day people WOULDN'T be upset about seeing their favorite player knocked out by silly cheese is the day I'd be worried about e-sport as a concept. Stop whining about whining already, it's healthy and crucial to the scene that people actually do care.
Except there's a difference between people merely being upset/ disappointed that their favorite player lost, and people accusing the winner of being a skill-less noob who only cheeses (or cheats) and is some sort of low-life idiot who should be throwing games because it's occasionally more entertaining to lose than it is to win.
The difference, of course, is that there is a level of tact, intelligence, and thought that goes into the posts of someone who may be disappointed but understands the situation, whereas there isn't for the latter group of people.
On April 13 2011 07:37 sermokala wrote: didn't boxer have bad macro in the old days and became so famous for chese and winning in onebaseish wins?
Nobody had good macro when Boxer made a name for himself really. Go check out some really old school BW VODs for some fun. It's like watching a totally different game. The things people do make your head hurt, and they have half of the units/tech that they should at any given time, but they work. Because the other guy is doing the same thing.
On April 13 2011 07:47 Longshank wrote: Seriously, the day people WOULDN'T be upset about seeing their favorite player knocked out by silly cheese is the day I'd be worried about e-sport as a concept. Stop whining about whining already, it's healthy and crucial to the scene that people actually do care.
There's a difference between getting upset about your favorite player losing and expressing it, and then calling someone a faggot who doesn't deserve to win on top of making remarks towards the game that are just simply untrue.
I'm all for people being upset about stuff like their favorite player being knocked out - I was livid and then verrrrry sad when stork got 3-0'd by Fantasy in the latest OSL finals. I'm upset whenever nony loses a match/tourney/etc. I, however, understand why they lost and the reasons being are the player's fault for losing.
So that was 2 or 3 out of thousands browsing the LR thread. Way to make a hen of a feather.
boesthius actually it's not as simple as"they play to win". As i've said before, the money for the prizes come from viewers. The players are actually entertainers, in a way like comedians, singers, etc, and thats why all of these have "fans". The reason why TLO seems to always be the fan favourite is because he deviates from boring play. Players like him keep more viewers coming by making them interested, expecting what crazy new stuff will TLO do this time, instead, "oh look standard play. I'll come back in 5mins to see who wins," Ofc i'm exageratting, but this is to say, yes they play to win, but also to entertain otherwise, no viewers, no money, and with no money at stake, they lose their job.
Still, part of this entertaining job, a big part, is the game itself. If boring standard play is more effective, ofc it will be seen more often. That's why it's also on blizzards hand to make it as appealing as possible to players to be able to have exciting games, to attract viewers --> money --> players.
Do you normally read the LR threads? Because this isn't too uncommon. I look at the LR threads when I'm at work and am not able to catch the games live, and there are a fuckton of shitty posts.
I never thought I could get angry reading something on the internet.
I'm kinda surprised you're 'mad' honestly. I mean stupid people say stupid shit all the time and that stupid minority** generally gets (and generally should get) banned for saying that stupid shit.
I couldn't care less about the outcome of that match because WhiteRa showed he can post some good results over MC. I can say I think it was a little anticlimactic for game 5 to be over before WhiteRa's pylon started (queued his probe back rather than scouting main). I understand people's frustration at seeing the white hope get knocked out like that but I don't think the majority of people believe MC was undeserving.
I find it hard to believe you take the Internet this seriously; just ban the idiots and move on.
PS: I do find it funny that the only person who got redtexted in your OP (others could have been banned since your quoting, I concede that) was by far the most tame, he just had the bad sense to reply to Nazgul. If I had my way I'd drop the hammer on the "faggot" posters first. Alas...
**edit: Oh god, I said stupid minority, ahahaha. Clearly I should mean stupid majority.
+1 for this post, it is silly how many people just go blindly flame when someone makes a good judgment call that may happen to be all in. In general i think it is because people really wanted a foreigner to win (as did i), but you can't just bash the other player if he preforms well. I just think way to many people got all worked up after the quick 2-0 and then were disappointed, but either way good thread dood.
Anyone who can´t understand why Game 5 was smart by MC and that it was 100% Whiteras fault that he lost that game does not understand what e-sports is about.
On April 13 2011 08:03 Apolo wrote: boesthius actually it's not as simple as"they play to win". As i've said before, the money for the prizes come from viewers. The players are actually entertainers, in a way like comedians, singers, etc, and thats why all of these have "fans". The reason why TLO seems to always be the fan favourite is because he deviates from boring play. Players like him keep more viewers coming by making them interested, expecting what crazy new stuff will TLO do this time, instead, "oh look standard play. I'll come back in 5mins to see who wins," Ofc i'm exageratting, but this is to say, yes they play to win, but also to entertain otherwise, no viewers, no money, and with no money at stake, they lose their job.
In a tournament format, where there's a prize pool, the money goes to the winner... not the most creative player.
I do think it would be interesting if there were contests and showmatches that showed off innovation, but tournaments are all about who's the best. And players will therefore do whatever it takes to win, even it means playing standard or repeating builds.
Personally, I pay to see the best play possible. For me, innovation is fun but I understand that they need to make a living.
On April 13 2011 07:47 Longshank wrote: Seriously, the day people WOULDN'T be upset about seeing their favorite player knocked out by silly cheese is the day I'd be worried about e-sport as a concept. Stop whining about whining already, it's healthy and crucial to the scene that people actually do care.
There's a difference between getting upset about your favorite player losing and expressing it, and then calling someone a faggot who doesn't deserve to win on top of making remarks towards the game that are just simply untrue.
I'm all for people being upset about stuff like their favorite player being knocked out - I was livid and then verrrrry sad when stork got 3-0'd by Fantasy in the latest OSL finals. I'm upset whenever nony loses a match/tourney/etc. I, however, understand why they lost and the reasons being are the player's fault for losing.
So that was 2 or 3 out of thousands browsing the LR thread. Way to make a hen of a feather.
Way, way more than 2 or 3 dude. More like 2 or 3 per page.
On April 13 2011 08:09 dapanman wrote: I'm kinda surprised you're 'mad' honestly. I mean stupid people say stupid shit all the time and that stupid minority generally gets (and generally should get) banned for saying that stupid shit.
I couldn't care less about the outcome of that match because WhiteRa showed he can post some good results over MC. I can say I think it was a little anticlimactic for game 5 to be over before WhiteRa's pylon started (queued his probe back rather than scouting main). I understand people's frustration at seeing the white hope get knocked out like that but I don't think the majority of people believe MC was undeserving.
I find it hard to believe you take the Internet this seriously; just ban the idiots and move on.
PS: I do find it funny that the only person who got redtexted in your OP (others could have been banned since your quoting, I concede that) was by far the most tame, he just had the bad sense to reply to Nazgul. If I had my way I'd drop the hammer on the "faggot" posters first. Alas...
Nah I'm not really that angry to be honest, just disappointed that I have to spend the time to ban such drivel. The posts that I quoted were all from people I had banned from the LR thread, the last one had the red text because I just straight direct quoted it instead of c/p it.
It's just really disheartening to see this community that I love begin to turn towards this mindless posting; albeit it's not the entire community of course.
Well that's good to hear, your OP just kinda seemed like preaching to the choir to me is all. Alternatively as: "Stupid people still stupid, more at eleven."
On April 13 2011 08:03 Apolo wrote: boesthius actually it's not as simple as"they play to win". As i've said before, the money for the prizes come from viewers. The players are actually entertainers, in a way like comedians, singers, etc, and thats why all of these have "fans". The reason why TLO seems to always be the fan favourite is because he deviates from boring play. Players like him keep more viewers coming by making them interested, expecting what crazy new stuff will TLO do this time, instead, "oh look standard play. I'll come back in 5mins to see who wins," Ofc i'm exageratting, but this is to say, yes they play to win, but also to entertain otherwise, no viewers, no money, and with no money at stake, they lose their job.
Still, part of this entertaining job, a big part, is the game itself. If boring standard play is more effective, ofc it will be seen more often. That's why it's also on blizzards hand to make it as appealing as possible to players to be able to have exciting games, to attract viewers --> money --> players.
They players are not entertainers. sorry. not sure where you got that from.
EPT
