EPTSure most of us would want White-Ra to win, but he got outplayed badly in the last game by a "cheesy" strat that was a brilliant move by MC. I really feel sorry for MC. Sure he puts up his cocky act and a lot of people don't like that, but he is the most succesful SC2 player and probably the most skilled one as of now. Poor MC, he did not deserve such an reaction..
*DreamHack Spoilers* I am so mad - Page 11
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Clearout
Norway1060 Posts
Sure most of us would want White-Ra to win, but he got outplayed badly in the last game by a "cheesy" strat that was a brilliant move by MC. I really feel sorry for MC. Sure he puts up his cocky act and a lot of people don't like that, but he is the most succesful SC2 player and probably the most skilled one as of now. Poor MC, he did not deserve such an reaction.. | ||
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RifleCow
Canada637 Posts
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether he's "playing to win." What matters is whether the competition is entertaining and engaging enough to warrant watching. Personally, I can't even be bothered to watch MC's games. I just click on the results and see whether he won or lost - his games are so boring, predictable and limited in scope that they completely suck all the fun out of watching them. So yes, they may not be "entertainers" by nature, but if they're consistently boring then nobody is going to want to watch them play. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On April 15 2011 04:29 PanzerKing wrote: This is such a moot argument. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether he's "playing to win." What matters is whether the competition is entertaining and engaging enough to warrant watching. Personally, I can't even be bothered to watch MC's games. I just click on the results and see whether he won or lost - his games are so boring, predictable and limited in scope that they completely suck all the fun out of watching them. So yes, they may not be "entertainers" by nature, but if they're consistently boring then nobody is going to want to watch them play. Yeah man it's such a shame he doesn't use the same build 5 games in a row and mass Colossus. So boring. | ||
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On April 15 2011 04:42 Southlight wrote: Yeah man it's such a shame he doesn't use the same build 5 games in a row and mass Colossus. So boring. See, there's your problem right there. You don't even understand the nature of the criticism that I'm making. It's not JUST that he does the same builds over and over. It's not just that he masses a ton of gateway units every game. It's that he's shrunk the space of the game by essentially choosing to do a one-base or a two-base all-in every single game. That goes beyond army composition and opening build orders - MC has essentially cut out late-game macro, army control and late-game strategy completely out any Starcraft 2 game that he plays. All of those things are irrelevant when he plays. He doesn't have to practice them himself, and it doesn't matter how capable his opponent is at those things. The game will be won or lost when he makes his all-in attack, every single game. That's why he's so boring. You're not watching the full breadth of Starcraft gameplay and player skill, and you never will in an ogsMC game. You're watching a truncated, dumbed-down version of the game where most of the units don't exist, most of the higher strategic concepts are irrelevant or nonexistant, and half the skillset in the game is irrelevant. That's just boring to watch. I'd watch a Protoss like Incontrol over MC any day, any time. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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DeckOneBell
United States526 Posts
On April 15 2011 05:14 PanzerKing wrote: See, there's your problem right there. You don't even understand the nature of the criticism that I'm making. It's not JUST that he does the same builds over and over. It's not just that he masses a ton of gateway units every game. It's that he's shrunk the space of the game by essentially choosing to do a one-base or a two-base all-in every single game. That goes beyond army composition and opening build orders - MC has essentially cut out late-game macro, army control and late-game strategy completely out any Starcraft 2 game that he plays. All of those things are irrelevant when he plays. He doesn't have to practice them himself, and it doesn't matter how capable his opponent is at those things. The game will be won or lost when he makes his all-in attack, every single game. That's why he's so boring. You're not watching the full breadth of Starcraft gameplay and player skill, and you never will in an ogsMC game. You're watching a truncated, dumbed-down version of the game where most of the units don't exist, most of the higher strategic concepts are irrelevant or nonexistant, and half the skillset in the game is irrelevant. That's just boring to watch. I'd watch a Protoss like Incontrol over MC any day, any time. I'm really, really bothered by this mentality. It's pretty much bullshit. Clearly, MC shouldn't take advantage of the difference between his and his opponent's micro and early game management, and instead play to the strengths of his opponent. Also, your statements are completely wrong, anyway. MC has proven himself capable of playing extended games, but only, only, only when his opponents don't succumb to his aggression early game. It's all-in in the sense that, yeah, sure, if it doesn't do damage, he'll lose. So is just about anything else in SC2. If he does only a decent amount of damage, the game continues. MC is not cutting probes so hard that he'll be put incredibly far behind. Yeah, it's kind of annoying when a game ends at 7 or 8 minutes in, sure. But the entire point of "safe" builds or even builds at all is to respond to every option. There's nothing wrong with preferring to watch Incontrol to MC, sure. But if you think MC is boring, I think you don't understand why his play is so spectacular. If his play was really as one-dimensional as you thought, he would've been "figured out" a long time ago. A good example is BitByBitPrime or Rain. But MC has incredible game sense, INCLUDING strategy for a BoX series. It's been said before, I think a lot by Chill, but to reiterate: macro games can't just exist, they come into existence because both players are inches away from completely destroying the other player, and stay that way for an extended period of time. On April 15 2011 05:27 koreasilver wrote: This thread is like the SC2 version of "Flash is a boring turtle I have no idea what I'm talking about". It's so true. | ||
boesthius
United States11637 Posts
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
On April 15 2011 06:03 Turgid wrote: MC loves warpgate-centric builds but he also helped re-popularize Void Ray and Phoenix openers against Terran and has definitely done 2base colossus in several games, not that that's particularly commendable. He also does blink and dts and always incorporates HTs late game, where they belong. No idea what he should be doing differently. Stop playing the game, duh (jk). As long as he keeps playing, people will hate on him. The one thing I will never understand about this whole cheese-debate is the fact that fanboys ignore that their favorite players employ the same strategies as the players they hate on. <sarcasm> White-Ra's 4-Gate variations were sooooooooooo great. His amazing micro with those...and the beautiful warp-in on the high-ground...soooo good. MC is such a noob. And MC strikes back. Noooooooo, don't 4-gate you skillless faggot, how dare you defeat White-Ra!!! Nooooo, Blink-Stalkers are so unfair, it's cheese, fucking korean, you think you're so smart. And how dare you exploit the glaring weakness of your opponent? That's sooooooo BM. You should tell him in the chat that he's vulnerable right now and that he should check his base. ... </sarcasm> >_< MC won. Because he made the right decision. Because he had the perfect plan. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On April 15 2011 02:00 Kennigit wrote: Why don't you calm down and ask around if thats the real idra first? By the looks of the format of the "quote," it seems to be pulled off of Reddit, and I do know for a fact that there are no known real Idra accounts on Reddit. That EGIdra is just a fake novelty account. | ||
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tehplank
977 Posts
On April 15 2011 05:14 PanzerKing wrote: See, there's your problem right there. You don't even understand the nature of the criticism that I'm making. It's not JUST that he does the same builds over and over. It's not just that he masses a ton of gateway units every game. It's that he's shrunk the space of the game by essentially choosing to do a one-base or a two-base all-in every single game. That goes beyond army composition and opening build orders - MC has essentially cut out late-game macro, army control and late-game strategy completely out any Starcraft 2 game that he plays. All of those things are irrelevant when he plays. He doesn't have to practice them himself, and it doesn't matter how capable his opponent is at those things. The game will be won or lost when he makes his all-in attack, every single game. That's why he's so boring. You're not watching the full breadth of Starcraft gameplay and player skill, and you never will in an ogsMC game. You're watching a truncated, dumbed-down version of the game where most of the units don't exist, most of the higher strategic concepts are irrelevant or nonexistant, and half the skillset in the game is irrelevant. That's just boring to watch. I'd watch a Protoss like Incontrol over MC any day, any time. MC is perfectly capable of playing macro games. It's not his fault if his opponent immediately succumbs to his initial harassment. | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On April 15 2011 05:14 PanzerKing wrote: See, there's your problem right there. You don't even understand the nature of the criticism that I'm making. It's not JUST that he does the same builds over and over. It's not just that he masses a ton of gateway units every game. It's that he's shrunk the space of the game by essentially choosing to do a one-base or a two-base all-in every single game. That goes beyond army composition and opening build orders - MC has essentially cut out late-game macro, army control and late-game strategy completely out any Starcraft 2 game that he plays. All of those things are irrelevant when he plays. He doesn't have to practice them himself, and it doesn't matter how capable his opponent is at those things. The game will be won or lost when he makes his all-in attack, every single game. That's why he's so boring. You're not watching the full breadth of Starcraft gameplay and player skill, and you never will in an ogsMC game. You're watching a truncated, dumbed-down version of the game where most of the units don't exist, most of the higher strategic concepts are irrelevant or nonexistant, and half the skillset in the game is irrelevant. That's just boring to watch. I'd watch a Protoss like Incontrol over MC any day, any time. Let me say this Herman Edwards quote again: YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME! If one/two base all ins are so powerful that MC has to use them to win most consistently, then it's the game's fault, not his. Either players will adapt to that style and force a late game, or, if they can't for months, it will be patches in some way. | ||
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AyeH
United States534 Posts
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SirJolt
the Dagon Knight4009 Posts
Maybe just me, but I'm an edge-of-my-seat cheese viewer. | ||
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
 Also us dudes that have been here for a few years understand why boes is mad, it's because of the name calling. If people were only civilized with their criticism then they shouldn't have been banned. You nerds should watch WWE (like what he said) for mindless fun of epic proportions if you think MC isn't a thinking man. | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
Considering that fact plus the fact that he wins a tournament every other week now, I don't think he really cares how people judge his playstyle. | ||
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AyeH
United States534 Posts
On April 15 2011 10:23 Rekrul wrote: I drank with MC a few days before he went to DH and I must say, his new GF is really fkin hot. Considering that fact plus the fact that he wins a tournament every other week now, I don't think he really cares how people judge his playstyle. pics?!  i like players who win (without cheating) and don't care about what the audience thinks. god, i wish i had his forcefield skills.. | ||
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PanzerKing
United States483 Posts
On April 15 2011 05:50 boesthius wrote: You do realize that he went a different build in every single game of his in the finals, right? Did you even watch the finals? Probably not, since you already have this assuming disposition. Again, you're talking about builds, which completely misses my point. The fact is, he does a one-base or two-base all-in, every single game. He might make one gateway 10 seconds faster in one game, or build a robo and 3 gates instead of a 4-gate in another, but the end result is always the same - it's like watching Goundhog Day. His entire playstyle truncates the game and shrinks it down to a handful of specific decisions and micro contests. It reduces the scope of the game to something fundamentally less complex, less interesting and ultimately, less exciting to watch for many people. People who care about large army control, late-game macro and late-game composition and strategic decision-making have absolutely no reason to watch any game MC plays, ever, because he'll either win or lose long before any of those skills become relevant. PvP is already pretty fucked to begin with, but you notice it most in his PvZ and PvT. And no, I didn't watch the finals, but I don't really have to, because I guessed how they went, looked up the results thread, and I was exactly right, just like I've been right about every series MC has played for as long as I can remember. | ||
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On April 15 2011 10:50 PanzerKing wrote: Again, you're talking about builds, which completely misses my point. The fact is, he does a one-base or two-base all-in, every single game. He might make one gateway 10 seconds faster in one game, or build a robo and 3 gates instead of a 4-gate in another, but the end result is always the same - it's like watching Goundhog Day. His entire playstyle truncates the game and shrinks it down to a handful of specific decisions and micro contests. It reduces the scope of the game to something fundamentally less complex, less interesting and ultimately, less exciting to watch for many people. People who care about large army control, late-game macro and late-game composition and strategic decision-making have absolutely no reason to watch any game MC plays, ever, because he'll either win or lose long before any of those skills become relevant. PvP is already pretty fucked to begin with, but you notice it most in his PvZ and PvT. And no, I didn't watch the finals, but I don't really have to, because I guessed how they went, looked up the results thread, and I was exactly right, just like I've been right about every series MC has played for as long as I can remember. In that case blame Blizzard not MC. | ||
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