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KaveX
Germany59 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:15 ~_~ wrote: Anyone else think that if White-Ra had proxy gated and won that there would be no whining ? Even if that was true: So what? Spectators don't have to be impartial – actually it's better if they aren't. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:13 KaveX wrote: Dude, e-sports is an industry since 10 years. The first Western player contracts were signed in 2003. Other than that, I agree –MC did nothing wrong, it would be stupid to limit the game to macro-oriented strategies–, just with one key difference: I don't mind people bashing on MC. That's basically what he gets for playing such a risky, not long-term oriented strategy that might have been anti-climatic for most spectators. Anyone who doesn't like MC now, may feel free to do so. Actually you may also feel free to dislike MC just because he's Korean and White-Ra is a cooler guy – you're entitled to do that as a spectator. Nothing wrong about being mad at MC for using proxygates in the final match, noone should force you to think that the winner deserves to be the winner. Emotions are okay. Even important for e-sports to work. I'd only disagree with people not respecting MC because he did that – because it's clearly his right to do so, it worked out perfectly, thus it was the right decision without a doubt. Just because someone isn't extraordinarily entertaining, it doesn't mean his playstyle should be discouraged or anything. He won another title, he won it in a fair manner, he is by no means a noob because of this. If you don't like him because of it – fine. Just don't pretend that what he did was wrong. Nothing wrong with saying you don't like MC, his playstyle, or his personality. There IS something wrong with calling him a noob, a skill-less cheeser, and a f@g (which you will find plenty of in pages 500+ of the LR thread). I'm pretty sure boes limited his banhammer for the latter and not the former. I for one like the fact that TL tries to rise above the muckery that is battle.net (or any other | ||
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Alver
United States177 Posts
let me start by saying im a huge fan of whitera but he didint play safely at all. he tried to do a counterbuild to the 4gate stalker build that was based around cutting corners in many ways. it was honestly an incredible read by mc to figure out his gameplay alone between games and do a cheese that was almost zero risk because he completely read his opponent. if white-ra opened the way mc does (and is the most standard pvp opening in the gsl) that rush might have failed without even scouting it, it would have 100% failed if it was scouted. despite mc's HUUUGGGEEE confidence in his micro skills, he was willing to put 15k$ on a proxy because he knew how much white ra cut corners and turned an incredibly risky build that doesnt rely on micro (so completely not his style) into an incredibly safe one....for one game. | ||
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:15 ~_~ wrote: Anyone else think that if White-Ra had proxy gated and won that there would be no whining ? Would've been more like "SPECIAL TACKTICKS BEAST FROM THE EAST SO GOOD!". I understand why people can get so excited about a foreigner winning, but cmon now. | ||
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CaptainFwiffo
United States576 Posts
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KaveX
Germany59 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:22 red4ce wrote: Nothing wrong with saying you don't like MC, his playstyle, or his personality. There IS something wrong with calling him a noob, a skill-less cheeser, and a f@g (which you will find plenty of in pages 500+ of the LR thread). I'm pretty sure boes limited his banhammer for the latter and not the former. I for one like the fact that TL tries to rise above the muckery that is battle.net (or any other Exactly! (Of course, one might argue that people call him a skill-less cheeser because of emotions and not because they actually think so, but the point still stands.) | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:10 Piski wrote: I don't really understand this huge ass argument. I'm a Whitera fanboy and I'm hugely disappointed he lost and crying inside how badly I wanted MC to lose. I haven't posted any QQ posts here but I can understand people who did. Even Hotbid and Nazgul posted here asking why the hell people are reacting like they are but isn't them just supporting players? I mean lets take footballs world cup as a example. Lets say I'm supporting my favorite team to win it, I don't really care if there is better teams or some other team could/is providing me better games. I still want MY team to win. When my team isn't playing I totally just want to enjoy the game and I apperciete when teams play awesome skilled football, but when my team plays I just want them to win. I accept that MC outplayed Whitera in that last game, mindgames wise at least but that doesn't mean I will be "Oh MC so great, you're such a good player" :f No. I wanted him to lose. Even in other sports people go crazy and bm the other team. I'm not saying it's acceptable but it just shows they are super passioned about their favorite players. Why is it so bad that people cheer for their player to win even if the other player is playing better (sorta) Of course bm is not really tolerated here so I can understand the few bans but people shouldn't be surprised that people are biased towards their favorite player. I can and do appreciate good games/series but I still want my fav player to win. Why E-sports should only be us appreciating good games, we do but we want our favorite players to win ^^ I pulled this out of the live report thread, I can't say it any better than this. | ||
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
Posting this because it's sort of relevant, and hilarious I don't see why people get so worked up when someone cheeses. It's fucking hilarious and awesome when it works in a pro-level match. | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:19 Chill wrote: Congratulations, this is the worst analogy I have ever heard on this website. Impressive. Its not also bad, the premise is also wrong. Chang vs Lendl, French Open Ro16, 5th set -- on Chang's serve, 15-30 while a break up. Lose the point and be down 2 break points, win the point and take back the momentum. If not match point, it was pretty damn close to one. The choice to serve underhand was brilliant, and its probably one of the more remarkable sets in tennis history for this very reason. Anyways, Boes fighting ~ | ||
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:49 hugman wrote: So I said this like twice already, but I think the tennis analogy of using an underhand serve on a match point is the perfect example. Is that respected in tennis? No. MC can win like that but I'm not going to respect him for showing such a boring deciding game. It was intense up until I realized white-ra wasn't going to scout inside his main on a map with effectively 2 spawn positions. MC read WR like a book (same build 5 times in a row) and wrecked him in the last game. The reason it was boring was because WR wasn't going to have a chance to fight back because HE didn't scout HIS own main. I can't believe people are blaming MC for taken advantage of mistakes and tendencies of his opponent in a strategy game. Even if you're rooting for WR you have to admit he lost that last game by not knowing the map, being predictable, and that MC won because he took advantage of those faults. Edit: And I don't even like MC, | ||
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Nomadic
United Kingdom312 Posts
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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Tuneful
United States327 Posts
Your blog reminds me of this Herm Edwards speech: | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:33 Zzoram wrote: Saying bm is good because it's in football is also not really a good reason for bm. Football bm is awful and out of control. People riot when their team loses, destroying cars and property. Modelling the Starcraft community on the football community isn't something to aspire to. Yup nerds are supposed to be smarter than that. Use logic not emotion and stuff. I often wish you could rate manner on the ladder to exclude these dicks, they wise up real quick like with an F rating and not get games. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:55 Warrice wrote: heh 75% of the best player in the worlds games revolve around timing attacks and all ins off 1 and 2 base, seeing mc get to a third base is pretty rare. i dont see why people think he is the best player int he world, yes, he wins alot, but that doesnt make him more skilled than nestea or MVP, he is just good at making builds. The thing is that MC has the ability to have a strong macro game after transitioning out of his famous timing attacks. Jinro himself once posted here that MC has strong macro play, except most people don't even see it because the opponent usually dies to his timing attacks. In fact, MC has usually wins when he takes a 3rd base. MC vs Marineking from GSL3 on Blistering Sands. MC vs Rain from GSL3 on Lost Temple. MC vs Byun from GSL5 on Terminus Re. In fact, the ability to transition out of all-ins and timing attacks is what sets most Koreans apart from non-Koreans, including MC himself. Leenock easily transitioned out of a 6pool against Guinea Pig back in GSL3 and won in an intense macro game. MC's timing attacks are strong openers but are not always all-in, especially stuff like his 6gate PvZ push or his MC-style PvT pushes. Unlike Idra, who would GG at the first sign of his build failing, MC doesn't auto-lose when his timing attacks fail, and most of his losses come from him being counter-attacked during the transitional phase if the he didn't deal enough damage. Plus, the best players in the world aren't necessarily going to please the audience with 100% macro games all the time. Jaedong wasn't afraid to 4pool or do zergling run-bys, even against Flash in an OSL finals. Stork wasn't afraid to 4 gate against Flash with 2 of the gates being proxied. Flash bunker rushes against greedy FEs all the time. On the other end of the spectrum is Canata, who is almost too much of a macro player and is often criticized for being boring, predictable, and thus a weaker player than the top BW players who aren't afraid to mix in cheese into their builds for wins. As others have said before me, MC is a great player for actually having the balls to use cheese in a BoX situation. MKP isn't only feared for his tempo-based, aggressive Bio play. He is also feared for his unpredictability in throwing in cheese or extremely risky decisions into his play, any of which can easily take out anyone when not scouted. Like it or not, cheese is an essential part of being a top, well-rounded player in addition to being able to play normal games. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14165 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:37 sermokala wrote: didn't boxer have bad macro in the old days and became so famous for chese and winning in onebaseish wins? Technically, all players back in Boxer's day had bad macro, so one-base wins and cheese were commonplace back then and not as hated as nowadays where we are so accustomed to epic macro games. Boxer cheese was quite appreciated since it was so well thought-out sometimes and so ludicrously risky at other times that it would actually be entertaining to watch him cheese since it would be so action-packed and tense and not necessarily an auto-win. Of course, he also could easily win in straight-up games, especially since it's kinda hard to cheese with Dropships, which he was most famous for using. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On April 13 2011 07:37 sermokala wrote: didn't boxer have bad macro in the old days and became so famous for chese and winning in onebaseish wins? The difference is that MC is excellent at macro games but his games usually don't make it that long because people die to him too early. Once people start surviving his push, he can then be a dominating macro player and people will still hate him. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32280 Posts
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