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On April 13 2011 07:03 Zzoram wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 07:01 Warrice wrote:On April 13 2011 06:58 Belano wrote:On April 13 2011 06:55 Warrice wrote:
heh 75% of the best player in the worlds games revolve around timing attacks and all ins off 1 and 2 base, seeing mc get to a third base is pretty rare. i dont see why people think he is the best player int he world, yes, he wins alot, but that doesnt make him more skilled than nestea or MVP, he is just good at making builds. Well the whole point of SC2 is to win. Wouldn't that mean that the most skilled player is the player that wins the most? that depends on the definition of skill, and how id like to define skill is how good you are at all areas of the game. MC is good at all areas of the game. He played the better mind game. He had the better micro. He had excellent macro and late game play vs Idra. He's amazing at defense or setting the pace of the game with aggression. He wins, a lot, against every race. MC is skilled.
he didnt beat idra in a macro game, idra beat idra in a macro game, and like i said 75% of his wins are on one and two base and they are all timing attacks. Yes he also has good micro, ill give him that, but who cares if he wins vs every race is he does the same thing vs every race, 4 gate 6 gate void rays. all timing attacks.
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Also, People need to shut the fuck up about balance in every live report thread or I'm going to go insane reading this forums lol.
White-Ra vs MC series was exciting though. I've realized, after watching HuK's stream, that a lot of PvP is 4gate vs 4 gate, blink stalkers vs blink stalkers, and it goes down to micro. MC played it right by throwing White-Ra off, it was an amazing decision that shows just how smart MC is. However to the more childish spectators, they just see it as a cheese.
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United States11637 Posts
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"Maybe you should go watch WWE"
oh...my...god
That's perfect
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I think much of this has to do with it being MC, MVP would never have gotten all this negative response. MC has brought it to himself by being the kind of player that would never even think of getting a third unless absolutely forced to.
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Good post. What people fail to realise is that MC's game sense is incredible - until you posted about White-Ra's build and the spawn positions, I hadn't even thought of that. He knew what he was doing and it was a very intelligent build to do, so props to him. I didn't really like MC before today, but damn, that kid has got skills.
The fact that their was actual discussion in the Liveperson thread about whether MC 'cheated' is insanity, nothing short of insanity.
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On April 13 2011 07:07 Warrice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 07:03 Zzoram wrote:On April 13 2011 07:01 Warrice wrote:On April 13 2011 06:58 Belano wrote:On April 13 2011 06:55 Warrice wrote:
heh 75% of the best player in the worlds games revolve around timing attacks and all ins off 1 and 2 base, seeing mc get to a third base is pretty rare. i dont see why people think he is the best player int he world, yes, he wins alot, but that doesnt make him more skilled than nestea or MVP, he is just good at making builds. Well the whole point of SC2 is to win. Wouldn't that mean that the most skilled player is the player that wins the most? that depends on the definition of skill, and how id like to define skill is how good you are at all areas of the game. MC is good at all areas of the game. He played the better mind game. He had the better micro. He had excellent macro and late game play vs Idra. He's amazing at defense or setting the pace of the game with aggression. He wins, a lot, against every race. MC is skilled. he didnt beat idra in a macro game, idra beat idra in a macro game, and like i said 75% of his wins are on one and two base and they are all timing attacks. Yes he also has good micro, ill give him that, but who cares if he wins vs every race is he does the same thing vs every race, 4 gate 6 gate void rays. all timing attacks.
So if someone is playing greedy or bad and leaves an opening where they are weak to attack, MC should not attack and wait for 200/200? That's what you call skill? Attacking when you know you can win, due to scouting and superior control, that takes skill. Waiting around until 200/200 is the macro robot way, and certainly doesn't indicate more skill.
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United States11637 Posts
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the last game was hilarious, whitera didnt scout his own base, scouted the WRONG BASE on mlg shakuras, and did the same build he did the previous 4 games straight. i thought it was pretty funny watching mc take full advantage of his opponent's early game weakness
mc went straight for the jugular and exploited a huge weakness in his opponents play. if you watched that last game and thought whitera deserved to win, you have no concept of starcraft whatsoever. if a player goes for a strong lategame at the cost of a very VERY weak earlygame (not even scouting your base in pvp??) you would be a subpar player to not take advantage of it
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On April 13 2011 07:07 Warrice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 07:03 Zzoram wrote:On April 13 2011 07:01 Warrice wrote:On April 13 2011 06:58 Belano wrote:On April 13 2011 06:55 Warrice wrote:
heh 75% of the best player in the worlds games revolve around timing attacks and all ins off 1 and 2 base, seeing mc get to a third base is pretty rare. i dont see why people think he is the best player int he world, yes, he wins alot, but that doesnt make him more skilled than nestea or MVP, he is just good at making builds. Well the whole point of SC2 is to win. Wouldn't that mean that the most skilled player is the player that wins the most? that depends on the definition of skill, and how id like to define skill is how good you are at all areas of the game. MC is good at all areas of the game. He played the better mind game. He had the better micro. He had excellent macro and late game play vs Idra. He's amazing at defense or setting the pace of the game with aggression. He wins, a lot, against every race. MC is skilled. he didnt beat idra in a macro game, idra beat idra in a macro game, and like i said 75% of his wins are on one and two base and they are all timing attacks. Yes he also has good micro, ill give him that, but who cares if he wins vs every race is he does the same thing vs every race, 4 gate 6 gate void rays. all timing attacks.
You must not watch oGs MC play. There's a reason he does timing attacks, it's to take command of the flow of the game. He makes the opponent respond to what he does and not the other way around.
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On April 13 2011 06:37 RoieTRS wrote:
I don't like how esports is becoming an industry.
Dude, e-sports is an industry since 10 years. The first Western player contracts were signed in 2003.
I agree with the OP – MC did nothing wrong, it would be stupid to limit the game to macro-oriented strategies –, just with one key difference: I don't mind people bashing on MC. That's basically what he gets for playing such a risky, not long-term oriented strategy that might have been anti-climatic for most spectators. Anyone who doesn't like MC now, may feel free to do so. Actually you may even feel free to dislike MC just because he's Korean and White-Ra is a cooler guy – you're entitled to do that as a spectator. Nothing wrong about being mad at MC for using proxygates in the final match, noone should force you to think that the winner deserves it. Emotions are okay, even important for e-sports to work.
I'd only disagree with people not respecting MC because he did that – because it's clearly his right to do so, and it worked out perfectly, thus it was the right decision without a doubt. Just because someone isn't extraordinarily entertaining, it doesn't mean his playstyle should be discouraged or anything. He won another title, he won it in a fair manner, he is by no means a noob because of this. If you don't like him because of it – fine. Just don't pretend that what he did was wrong.
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I can somewhat understand that people are unhappy about White-Ra losing, but what puts me off is that they bash MC for taking a calculated risk in game 5, while White-Ra himself took far more risks in the other games, especially the second one. Expanding + building more probes + robo bay in game 2 did put him ahead and let him defeat MC's smaller army in the end, but if it had been scouted he would have been dead.
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Anyone else think that if White-Ra had proxy gated and won that there would be no whining ?
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Did I root for WR? Yeah I did.
Did I get sad, seeing WR lose? Yeah, of course I did (see statement above:should be pretty obvious).
Did I enjoy the finals? I definitely did, I've never had as short finger nails as I have now.
Do I rage at MC for winning? Hell no, why should I. He won, plain and simple.
Unfortunately there will always be whiners and ragers, they're in every sport amongst supporters.
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so many crybabies wanting to inject their own stipulations on how sc2 should be played. it's ridiculous. if you're going to take credit away from mc, you're taking even more credit away from the people he's beating.
"wahhh timing attacks, wahhh cheese" aka if only your favorite players were smart enough to defend or scout these simple attacks, they'd beat this dishonorable korean cheeser easily, but they aren't.
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100% agree with the OP. One of the first things I thought to myself upon seeing MC throw that first pylon down was "oh man are people on the forums[TL] gonna be pissed". People freak out over stuff like this, but the fact is it makes the game more exciting to watch, especially in a controlled tournament setting where players are more likely to use strategies like the one MC did.
And as far as respect goes, if you don't have respect for a player, how about you show some self-respect and stop looking like a child whining on a forum about it. People are so quick to attack others, when the reality is if you knew as confidently as MC did you could walk away with $15,000 USD (I think that's how much they said 1st was) by proxy 2 gating, there'd be a lot less people throwing stones
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Well despite being mad you communicated better than I could after all that bullshit in there, thanks. I don't even remember the cheese from BW as you describe but seems genius to throw it in every so often when they least expect it because that's the only way it works against players of this caliber. Sometimes cheese is actually better than standard play IMO. Not IdrA's obvious rage cheese aginst Jinro or MC but like you said game 5 was genius because of WhiteRA predictability.
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Hey now, Mass Effect is a great game.
But please, ban as many people as you possibly can. The more, the better.
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Calgary26004 Posts
On April 13 2011 06:49 hugman wrote:
So I said this like twice already, but I think the tennis analogy of using an underhand serve on a match point is the perfect example. Is that respected in tennis? No.
MC can win like that but I'm not going to respect him for showing such a boring deciding game.
Congratulations, this is the worst analogy I have ever heard on this website. Impressive.
Edit: If players artificially created epic games, they wouldn't be epic. The thing that makes them epic is that they got to such a stalemated, drawn out situation, while trying to fucking murder each other every second of the match.
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How can people be mad at MC? Whitera needs to kick himself, he lost the game to not scouting in your own base in a PvP.
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EPT
