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Let me preface this thread by saying two things; first I am not sure if this is the correct sub-section of TL to post this in (if it is not, mod's use your discretion to relocate it please), and second I want it to be clear that I have nothing but admiration and appreciation for this community and the staff/volunteers who make it a reality.
That being said, I have a relatively long-standing problem with the consistency with which TL message boards are moderated. My perception has always been that some threads of a certain type get closed quickly and flippantly while others of the same type remain open and free of moderation. Along the same lines I notice frequently reply posts of one nature being tagged with the familiar "user was warned for this post" and "user was banned for this post," and other reply posts of the same nature free of warnings or bans. Seeing as how these are just my feelings and I have not provided any concrete evidence I will explain what the substance of this post is about.
I being a dedicated Diablo 3 fan (100+ hours total played time since release, furthest progression being end of Inferno Act II, AceRockolla#1858) posted a thread in the Diablo 3 sub-forums last night looking for people interested in forming a powerleveling group for alts. I awoke this morning to the disappointment of it being closed by a TL moderator who shall remain nameless. The cited reason for closing was "not enough content."
And so here is the essence of my complaint: my thread was closed for not containing enough content, but there exist many other threads in the D3 sub-forum with nearly identical amounts of content, that remain open!
Here are some examples of threads currently in the D3 sub-forum that are at this moment, open. (I have edited the posts of usernames and battletag id #'s for anonymity's sake)
1. "As the name implies, i'm trying to find some people who are down to do some inferno farming runs. Mostly going to be farming Act 1 elite mobs. Whisper me in game or post your info here if you're interested."
2. "Looking to start one, if possible. Its prob the fastest way to level.
Anyone else interested??
Im gonna be 54 in a moment, gonna try for a lil bit stronger by the time i can find 3 others to do it with, though...
lookin to farm him (its between 200k & 800k each person as will as decent gold) each set of runs takes about 15 min"
3. "So I just hit Hell difficulty. I am a barb and noticed that the jump in difficulty was substantial and therefore decided to start doing some MF runs in Nightmare, to equip myself, or get enough gold to equip myself.
I was wondering if anyone has a good run order for doing an MF run? I was thinking of doing the last quest in Act 3, killing Azmodan, as there are a couple of rare/elite groups on the way as well, but was wondering if anyone else had a better area as to where running would be good?"
Here is my OP for reference and comparison purposes: "Hi,
I'm a level 60 Demon Hunter (currently near the end of Act II inferno in terms of progression). I am looking for 2-3 level 60 Demon Hunters, or Wizards that would be interested in exchanging help powerleveling alts.
A friend and I have successfully got the trip down to under 2.5 minutes bringing in about 1-2 million xp/hour and 75-150k gold/hr depending on how many people are in the group. AceRockolla#1858 in game if you are interested.
Thanks!"
Does anyone have any input they would like to share about this phenomenon? Does anyone have similar experiences to share? Does anyone have an explanation for this seemingly inconsistent moderation behavior?
I am asking you, the reader, for your thoughts on this topic with the hope of opening a general discourse about forum moderation consistency on TL.
Thank you for your time.
tl;dr My thread was closed for no reason and I'm upset 
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I feel that this is more appropriate for website feedback.
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read the ten commandments
this is their house, and this belongs on website feedback if anywhere.
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Hmm you raise a valid point, but wouldn't it be a better idea to simply PM the mod who closed your thread with your case?
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Germany2896 Posts
Mods can't be everywhere at once. Just report bad posts/threads. I guess several of those threads would get closed shortly after you report them. Your account is over a year old, so you should be able to report posts.
In particular bad posts in fast growing threads are often only moderated when they get reported.
As for threads, sometimes it's because just a single thread of a type is enough, and sometimes no mod has read the thread yet, especially in exotic subforums like D3.
On May 26 2012 03:00 Jaaaaasper wrote:
read the ten commandments
this is their house
I hate people using that as an argument in threads like this. Consistent and understandable moderation is a goal of teamliquid, and trying to understand certain moderator actions is certainly a valid concern. This rule is more against people who create a shitty post/thread or are generally idiots, but claim they didn't break any specific rule. It's not a blanket statement used to ban people "because we can".
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United States7481 Posts
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Keep in mind that moderators simply cannot check every post in every thread to see if it meets the guidelines for that subforum. They rely on user reports to effectively moderate; therefore, if two similarly bad posts are made in a thread, and one is reported and the other is not, that second post may never be acted upon. That also means that you can't use the "He did this too, so why am I the one being punished?!" excuse to justify your bad post/thread.
Regrettably, situations like these are unavoidable on a website like TeamLiquid, where a few dozen mods are tasked with regulating tens of thousands of users. The fact is, mods can't be everywhere. You've been registered for a year, so use that report button to let the mods know about any offending posts/threads you may find that haven't been acted upon. For those without the button, you can PM a moderator about said posts.
EDIT: Dammit, MoC! Ninja'd my points.
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United States22154 Posts
This boils down to this: I don't actually read the d3 section, although I do handle reports from it, your thread was reported, the others weren't so I didn't see them, in the future its easier for you to PM me than start a thread, I do strive to be consistent even if I sometimes fail.
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On May 26 2012 02:57 reesTHEman wrote:Here is my OP for reference and comparison purposes: "Hi,
I'm a level 60 Demon Hunter (currently near the end of Act II inferno in terms of progression). I am looking for 2-3 level 60 Demon Hunters, or Wizards that would be interested in exchanging help powerleveling alts.
A friend and I have successfully got the trip down to under 2.5 minutes bringing in about 1-2 million xp/hour and 75-150k gold/hr depending on how many people are in the group. AceRockolla#1858 in game if you are interested.
Thanks!"tl;dr My thread was closed for no reason and I'm upset
I just want to say, it bugs the crap out of me when people use TL as their own personal Facebook/Craigslist. People do this all the time in Tech Support, they make their own thread for assisting with a computer build or upgrade question, despite the fact that one of the largest threads on TL exists specifically for that purpose.
TL has tens of thousands of regularly active users, why do you deserve your own thread? If you are allowed one, then everyone should be, and pretty soon the entire D3 forum is overrun with 300 threads for people looking to form individual groups. So no, your thread wasn't closed for no reason.
Now I haven't spent much time in the D3 forum, but if no "looking for a partner" thread exists; maybe you should create one? Likelyyou're not the only one with this issue. By creating a proper thread for people to utilize you are actually contributing and giving back to TL rather than just using it as your own personal forum. Don't you think that's a much better idea?
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Calgary25998 Posts
Something being unmoderated doesn't mean TL necessarily approves of it. There are a shitload of posts and threads - often times we just haven't read a bad post or thread.
Your thread was bad and deserved to be closed. It reads as a D3 craigslist ad and doesn't serve anyone but yourself. If other bad threads exist then they will probably be closed as well when a mod bumps into them.
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On May 26 2012 04:59 TheToast wrote:
Now I haven't spent much time in the D3 forum, but if no "looking for a partner" thread exists; maybe you should create one? Likelyyou're not the only one with this issue. By creating a proper thread for people to utilize you are actually contributing and giving back to TL rather than just using it as your own personal forum. Don't you think that's a much better idea?
Okay? So my thread satisfied the criteria you outline here. Albeit my thread was soliciting to a specific subgroup of the D3 population it was in essesnce a "looking for group" thread with the potential to facilitate activities in-game that would be mutually beneficial to myself as well as others. My thread wasn't "please help me out with X activity in-game for free." It was "Hey, are there any X that would be interested in partnering in-game to complete tasks that benefit everyone involved?" How is this only serving myself any more than a more general "looking for group" thread?
p.s. To everyone who has responded to this I appreciate your feedback, so thank you. I think nearly all of my questions have been answered very well. I'll try to be a more productive member on the TL forums from here on out.
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On May 26 2012 12:39 reesTHEman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 04:59 TheToast wrote:
Now I haven't spent much time in the D3 forum, but if no "looking for a partner" thread exists; maybe you should create one? Likelyyou're not the only one with this issue. By creating a proper thread for people to utilize you are actually contributing and giving back to TL rather than just using it as your own personal forum. Don't you think that's a much better idea? Okay? So my thread satisfied the criteria you outline here. Albeit my thread was soliciting to a specific subgroup of the D3 population it was in essesnce a "looking for group" thread with the potential to facilitate activities in-game that would be mutually beneficial to myself as well as others. My thread wasn't "please help me out with X activity in-game for free." It was "Hey, are there any X that would be interested in partnering in-game to complete tasks that benefit everyone involved?" How is this only serving myself any more than a more general "looking for group" thread?
"mutually beneficial to myself as well as others". That's a ridiculous overstatement.
Honestly, you're delusional. No, your thread was not providing a community service, and if you honestly believe that you need to get your head examined. It was a craigs list style ad trying to solicit a few partners for a few hours of gameplay. That's all, nothing more. TL is not your personal craigs list, and you do not deserve your own thread. TL does not need 10,000 individual threads all asking for a few partners for a few hours. There are enough shitty threads clogging the boards as it is. That's not a hard concept to understand.
Step up and contribute by creating a "looking for partners" thread if there is need for it. Put actual effort into it, not just a one sentence OP. Define a format and keep it updated. That's how things are done on TL.
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United States8476 Posts
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On May 26 2012 12:48 TheToast wrote:
Honestly, you're delusional. No, your thread was not providing a community service, and if you honestly believe that you need to get your head examined.
I post a thread lacking in content and low in community added value and follow it up by asking for genuine input on the experience in hopes of learning and understanding the process better for future reference, and this is the response I get? Where do you get off talking to me like this? If being a loyal reader of this message board for a year before venturing out and trying to make a contribution garners this sort of a reaction from the community leaders then I was grossly mistaken about this place.
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On May 26 2012 17:54 reesTHEman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 12:48 TheToast wrote:
Honestly, you're delusional. No, your thread was not providing a community service, and if you honestly believe that you need to get your head examined. I post a thread lacking in content and low in community added value and follow it up by asking for genuine input on the experience in hopes of learning and understanding the process better for future reference, and this is the response I get? Where do you get off talking to me like this? If being a loyal reader of this message board for a year before venturing out and trying to make a contribution garners this sort of a reaction from the community leaders then I was grossly mistaken about this place.
You have a full page of people, even mods trying to help you out, and then you pick out this one sentence to complain about? Seems to me you didn't want to be part of this place in the first place.
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[B]On May 26 2012 18:26 solidbebe wrote:
You have a full page of people, even mods trying to help you out, and then you pick out this one sentence to complain about? Seems to me you didn't want to be part of this place in the first place.
Did you read this thread? About 5 posts up I already specifically expressed my thanks to everyone who gave constructive criticism and guidance.
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On May 26 2012 21:00 reesTHEman wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On May 26 2012 18:26 solidbebe wrote:
You have a full page of people, even mods trying to help you out, and then you pick out this one sentence to complain about? Seems to me you didn't want to be part of this place in the first place. Did you read this thread? About 5 posts up I already specifically expressed my thanks to everyone who gave constructive criticism and guidance.
So why are you acting like you just had 20 people tell you you should die in a hole when it's only 1 person who wasn't super nice to you.
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This seems pretty simple, MoC and a few other people already told you why your thread was closed, and why GMarshal in particular may have missed the other thread, and if you find any other threads to be below standards, you could report them/PM a mod. I don't think it makes sense for mods to intentionally close your thread and ignore another one that was just as sub-par in terms of quality, it's in all likelihood a simple failure to detect the other thread, and nothing to question further.
Oh toast, so funny~
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completely agree with OP
NrGmonk is extremely inconsistant, and actually hurts the community more than he helps.
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On May 28 2012 17:13 Fogetaboudit wrote:
completely agree with OP
NrGmonk is extremely inconsistant, and actually hurts the community more than he helps.
Could you provide a few examples of said inconsistansies instead of just stating that like it's a fact? Also did you read through the thread, there are plenty of reasons why some threads go unnoticed while others are closed in minutes.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 28 2012 17:13 Fogetaboudit wrote:
completely agree with OP
NrGmonk is extremely inconsistant, and actually hurts the community more than he helps.
Please point towards some examples before I write this off as you holding a grudge against him (he is responsible for 75% of your mod actions after all).
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United States8476 Posts
Lol, funny guy. Here's the warning he received:
Fogetaboudit was just warned by NrGmonk.
Reason: This is a Warning!
Show nested quote +
I'm high masters and routinely hold off aggression with no Robo (double Stargate)
Are you kidding me? I just warned you to not bring double stargate into every thread. Also, simple stories of what you do are now strictly forbidden. Also, don't post one liners with no explanation, evidence, or analysis. Last warning.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation,
NrGmonk
And here's our PM conversation:
Show nested quote +Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable. Show nested quote +Original Message From Fogetaboudit: show your work (or get off my dick) Original Message From NrGmonk: Even without my previous warning, your post violated at least two portions of the strategy forum guidelines. The rules are clearly there. Follow them or don't post here anymore. Original Message From Fogetaboudit:
as stated before, keep making up the rules as you see fit.
3 threads (2 of which are redundant) =/= every thread
I realize you probably take pleasure in this but its about time to get off my cock
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2 problems with that rule
1 - inconsistency - technically about half the posts violate this rule and there is no warning spam
2 - practicality - I could quote my entire OP as "proof" and then link to the thread, but I was downplaying it as per your request.
Issue number 1 can leads to people getting warned that the specific Mod doesn't like and/or agree with (me) Grudges play a role in warnings that use the "rule" to justify them. I'm not going to argue that I didn't give a basic answer (although the question was simple so it was appropriate), but don't act like there is any sort of consistancy.
Issue number 2 is just common sense.
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United States8476 Posts
So basically first you accuse me of making up rules. When I show you clearly what rules you broke, you start to accuse me of inconsistency without providing any actual examples of inconsistency.
If you look through the strategy forums, they are littered with warnings since the new strategy forum guidelines were posted. I'm fairly confident to say that there are no posts in the forums right now posted after this date, May 19th, that are worse than yours, which is:
- A one-liner
- No supporting evidence or analysis
- "A story of what I do" post
If there are indeed worse posts, it's because we can't look at every single post, even though I personally try to in the strategy forums. If you somehow truly believe there isn't consistency and aren't just trying to get back at me, then perhaps you don't understand the baseline at which we judge posts. If that is the case, post actual examples of posts which you think deserved a warning more than yours.
You've gotten 4 warnings/bans, all of which are completely justified. Instead of admitting you made mistakes, each time you have tried to rebuffed the warning and/or ban and don't admit you did anything wrong. Immediately after your first ban, you wrote a post complaining about moderation, which resulted you getting a ban because of matyring. After your second ban, you wrote me a series of scathing PMs. After your first warning, you denied any wrongdoing in the thread you were warned in. After your second warned, you posted in this thread complaining about inconsistency. Have you considered that you're getting so many warnings and bans, and not just from me, because you're a bad poster?
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I hope this doesn't come off as a hijacking of the thread, but I too have a problem with moderation inconsistency. We see over and over again that some bad threads are closed flippantly (as the OP accurately describes), while others are allowed to stay open.
In this thread, mods have stated that they can't look at every single post, but I am assuming that they can look at every reported post. Is that correct?
Why then, are threads like the below allowed to stay open when they had been reported immediately after their creation?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340515
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=338859 (didn't close until 6 pages in)
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
Sometimes, no one is handling reports and they get backed up.
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On May 29 2012 11:35 motbob wrote:
Sometimes, no one is handling reports and they get backed up.
Okay, thanks.
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NrGmonk is a really nice guy and pretty lenient. He definitely was fair with his ruling there, just heed his warnings and live and let live.
+ Show Spoiler +You were the one one HIS dick, son!
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EPT
