Restreaming GSL - Page 2

On September 07 2010 21:51 Kaolla wrote:
i think it would be rather strange to stop restreaming gom while practically anything else can be restreamed... when msl/osl were complaining at other channels (such as youtube) no action was taken either... If gom would make it's stream more accessible and working well, then i could see the point in this, but at rignt now i don't see why you would make an exception for gom...

Also it's not as if they are totally unaware of the number of ppl watching it through streams here. Since it's 100% sure that they do know this, I think it should be very clear to them that their own stream obviously sucks compared to other free streaming services -_- Their arguments seem rather weak to me.

On September 07 2010 22:36 sleepingdog wrote:
the only real problem is - why the hell would GOMTV think that anybody would watch the re-stream if their stream worked just fine? I mean, seriously, this doesn't make any sense at all, people are not "that" dumb in general

if maybe 10% are too layz to register, but the rest I guess is just - like me - unable to watch the stream due to crashing gom-player or lag-issues

On September 07 2010 21:56 Cider wrote:


But the point is, action was taken this time. They requested that restreamers stop and the people not watch restreams and pointed out that it was illegal. A Gom official also posted in the GSL thread asking people to not restream. Anyone restreaming GSL or watching a restream is thus ignoring their wishes and being disrespectful to GomTV.

I wish someone would justify their "well the free stream sucks so therefore i'm justified in watching a restream" argument. This argument is popping up all over the forums with absolutely no backing or reasoning behind it whatsoever. The fact that it is streamed on the internet does not mean you are entitled to watch it.

On September 07 2010 22:44 ithree wrote:


Furthermore TL complied when MLG and IEM requested it, whats with this double standard ?

Isn't free English casting of Korean games what TL always wanted ? isn't this the holy grail ?

Instead the mods are supporting copyright infringement through illegal streams. You have zero right to watch the GSL, if they reach capacity you can't watch, tough shit. They are the copyright holders and have the right to decide how the content is dealt with.

Technically TL pro-league streams have always been illegal, the WTO has already ruled that even where language support or intent to sell to a region doesn't exist it remains illegal, just look to Japanese Anime. Its generally turned a blind eye to, but this, they are providing directly for and to the world, facilitating access and providing support. It is not perfect, people are having problems but it is far from the whole and again irrelevant.


Why do they care?
Well doesn't really matter tbh, whine about 'fairness' all you like it means nothing, there is not an atom of it in universe and no law on the planet will help you in such an abstract thing.

But if you must know advertising on the internet is different than offline; they expect all kinds of information about the people they're reaching, in this case geographic and pure view count seems to be their primary concern.
So be bypassing the offical stream you are denying the advertiser and GOM the real information about their success or failure and can only serve to attract litigation or cut backs in service. Is that what you want ?



If you have paid for HQ on the other hand, then you do and feel free to bitch and warn others, but do so primarily on the Gom site/email where something can be done about it.

tl;dr take your self righteous entitlement and shove it.

Everyone can get access (sheer number of streams)
More people can see SC2
Support ProLeauge, kill Gretch (Gom is using foreigners as evidence and funds to fight Kespa, so give HQ away for free etc)

They're illegal (no ifs not buts, pure and simple)
Impossible to let everyone see it (someone will always have problems getting access)
Hurts the GSL
TL becomes enemy of Blizz/Gom (though we're too big to kill/fight atm, didn't kespa say that ?)
|- - -> TL supports pirates

On September 07 2010 23:56 Zona wrote:
What about the Korean stream - is it freely available too?

On September 07 2010 23:59 ithree wrote:

My understanding is that the Korean stream is available for free in HQ, haven't heard of any region locks, just the language barrier.

Edit: sorry I cant find the offical notice of this,
heres a TL post on stream qualities and there's been at least one re-stream of it here on TL.

To be clear: Koreans get a better deal than everyone else.

On September 07 2010 22:43 st3roids wrote:
Lets ban free speech as well

Hello people at GOMTV.net. Please read through this post, and give us some sort of reply. It is also important to note that this is only in regards to SD restreams.

On Day 2, the English commentators were instructed to tell us not to watch restreams. On Day 3, they restated this, saying that it was illegal, stopped sponsors from getting correct data on the amount of exposure, and stopped GOMTV.net from knowing how successful the streams are, and whether any technical changes needed to be made.

Now, let me tell you how I ended up watching restreams:

On Day 1, right off the bat, the GOM Player would not load the stream. Then, when it did, the stream usually did not last more than 15 minutes; it would just close, retuning me to the orange screen. Trying to start up the stream again took several tries, where sometimes the GOM Player didn't respond at all, sometimes GOM Player froze, and sometimes it told me that I was missing something,error 0x00000071. It took up to ten minutes to fix the stream each time, and it seems as if it was time, and not anything I was doing that actually fixed the stream. Consider how this happened at least twelve times during Day 1. How could you expect anyone to stay on GOM Player after that? I went to watch a restream.

On Day 2, someone had posted a direct url that, when put into the GOM Player, would (allegedly) play better than if the stream were actually launched from the website. Whether this was true, or you fixed up some of the technical problems, I do not know. What I do know is that the stream for Day 2 worked a lot better for me. I am sure that you do not want me copy the url, as it may do bad for the servers, but it works. I had perhaps four times, significantly less, where the GOM Player just stopped. Keep in mind that you can't just restart the GOM Player. It gives you all sorts of errors, and by the time it is actually fixed, you have no idea what actually fixed it. Typically, it takes 15 minutes for it to fix itself, when not immediately. What did I do during the times that it was down? I watched a restream of course.

On Day 3, I used to same link. It worked out fine in the beginning, then started to die again, by the time cellawerra took the stage. I wanted to see this match, and I knew how difficult it would be for me to restart the stream. Tell me, what option do I have at this point but to watch a restream? I think the stream started working again 20 minutes towards the end, but do you expect me to constantly check to see if my stream will start working again? I respect your concerns, so I will try to watch my own stream if possible, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I have a restream on and muted in the background every day, for when my stream crashes.

Now, let's take a look at some other people's concerns. Some complain that the stream doesn't support Chrome. This is not a valid argument. Other browsers are free, so one should download the free browser and watch under GOMTV.net's rules. That said, you can see why people don't want to do that, right? Other's say that there is no mac support. Do you expect them to buy a new computer in order to watch the streams?

Restreams are also a part of the community. This is not something that legitimizes them, but I did want to point it out. When I watched my own stream, I had a restream open because I wanted to chat with the people also watching that stream. There were about 4500 people in there. How many were actually there for the chatting only, like me, I do not know.

Also, it is to my understanding that, when streams did not work for some people, you sent them over to the TeamLiquid restreams. Now, you are calling it illegal (and I'm not saying it's not), but telling people to go there at the same time? Could you please explain this, and I apologize if I have my information incorrect.


My final point is this. No one wants to watch restreams. Personal streams have higher quality and flexibility. The only reason we are watching restreams is because we are forced to, some way or another. You have stated that you need people to watch your streams in order for you to know of any lag, server overloads, and other technical issues. Well guess what? You already have them. That's why the restreams are there! You don't expect people to sit with a broken GOM Player in front of them, its orange screen shining, and not doing anything, do you? Do you think anyone will just sit there and be content that you may or may not be getting the information that their stream is not working, when they can easily go watch a restream? Some people's streams lag so bad that they have to watch restreams. Others don't have the right "equipment" to watch their own streams.

The point is this: you are not losing any viewers because of restreams. People who are watching restreams would not be watching through the GOM Player if the restreams were stopped, because it simply doesn't work. If you want more viewers, you need to fix your technical problems. When I press that "launch stream" button, a stream has to actually show.

I sincerely appreciate the fact that you are providing free streams for everybody. However, if it doesn't work, it might as well not be there.