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Again, this is NOT related to StarCraft at all. This post WILL come off as ignorant, naive, and etc., so I apologize to everyone and especially the Koreans if I sound "offensive" or anything. Oh, and first blog post ;D.
Everything I am about to write is PURELY based on experiences of OTHER people (specifically YouTube vloggers in Korea and Japan). Also, this post will be mainly on LIVING in Korea, not just visiting.
It was always my dream to move to Asia. More recently, I really thought about my future and moving to Korea or Japan. I've watched vloggers on YouTube who live in Korea and Japan, and I will be beginning to learn either language (once I decide where I will decide to live). I am pretty set on moving to either country, I really do love both cultures (and from what I've seen, it's what really lacks in NA).
I've heard really really good things about both countries. A lot of generalizations and negativity, but generally very good. Both countries have a great nightlife, a lot of culture, great food, and really (I mean really beautiful women, but I made this blog post for a reason.
Foreigner treatment.
There will always be warm, friendly people, as well as cold and nasty ones. Yes, I WILL be generalizing a bit, and if I sound offensive, I'm really sorry, but this is all based on what I've heard, and getting information about this (especially from you Koreans here on TL!) is really important to me (kind of dictates where I will be moving in the future  ).
Japan.
A very nice country. LOVE the culture. The society seems to be very group-oriented, but not very excluding. Japanese people tend to be very very nice and welcoming overall to foreigners (I repeat once again; everything in this blog post is based on others' experiences). There really isn't too much to write or rant about here.
Korea.
Also a very nice country. The culture is there, but from what I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the most "Westernized". Now, HERE is where I get a lot of mixed information. From what I've heard, Korean people can be either very friendy or very hostile/un-welcoming. I've mostly heard the ranting, though. The experiences from the YouTube vloggers [who are quite old (e.g. BusanKevin has lived in Korea for about 4-5 years before moving to Japan) tells me that Koreans don't really like foreigners living in their country. I've heard about a LOT of discrimination (for example; before your contract ends for your ESL teaching, they would (uncommonly) abruptly end the contract and give you a very questionable reason like "the children thought you were mean", or something like that). You can't go to some bars or general areas of attraction because they restrict foreigners from doing so. People will stare at you (especially if you're in a smaller city/town), give you dirty looks, or even go completely hostile and attack you (again, this occurs very rarely, but it does happen). I've even heard that Korean men will verbally (or even physically) abuse you if you are seen with your Korean girlfriend. The list can go on, but all this honestly just frightens me,
Again, I really do love the cultures of both countries, but lately, I've been leading over to Japan a little more. Korea seems more appealing at first because of the culture being easier to get into and the language being much much easier to learn (no need to learn 328947289754 kanji)., but if you are going to be treated like this, what's the point?
Anyways, I really created this post for the Koreans here. Is all this true? I know EVERYONE'S experiences will be different, but is this the general treatment of foreigners in Korea? Should I still be hesitant to go there?
Thanks.
  
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it's just the city-dwellers that are aggressive iirc -- xenophobia is present in both countries but seem to mainly be restricted to dense urban areas
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
Heres my question, What are you planning to work as over there as the job market is quite competitive given the population density of both countries?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan)
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On May 27 2011 09:58 amazingxkcd wrote:
Heres my question, What are you planning to work as over there as the job market is quite competitive given the population density of both countries?
Well, as of now, the majority of foreigners living in both Korea and Japan teach English. I'm probably going to have to teach English, but I've also been interested in being a game developer (probably more likely in Japan than Korea, though).
On May 27 2011 09:59 Kipsate wrote:
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan)
Haha, I guess it does. I am an Egyptian, but apparently I look nothing like one. Everyone says I look white, and more recently; German (quite random, but okay!). Also, I've heard it is really easy to get into Japan. All you need is a Bachelor's degree (in anything) and you get a working visa from a work sponsor (which apparently is very easy to get because they recruit any english-speaking person to teach; especially in Korean I believe, where demand is higher).
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I'm considering doing study abroad in Korea for a year and I've been looking into some of these things myself. My first advice would be to worry more about things that will directly affect you such as living conditions, food, transport. No matter what country you go to you will face some kind of discrimination. Subtle things like odd looks and talking behind your back happen even in your own country. The most important thing is to not make a scene, your the foreigner so people will always judge you more than the neitzen. As far as I know you won't be attacked for being a foreigner (Kipsate is right though, your race does matter) but if you don't do anything to make yourself hated then people will very hesitant to do something racial to you in public as people care about their image. Areas where G.I.'s have caused problems tend to be the least trusting of foreigners. If you can try to find areas where there aren't military personal stationed. Your Canadian so you will often get grouped in as an American so just be sure to follow social norms. If your alone in a random neighborhood at 3am then there is a chance you could be attacked (especially if you have been drinking) but that will happen in pretty much every country. Korean is much easier to learn so if you want to be able to adapt to the culture easier then Korea will be the better choice. Both have plenty of opportunities to experience new things. People seem to be split on if its ok for foreigners to talk to Korean woman as it seems like certain cities are more traditional than others. I would get to know some of the locals of whatever country you chose and have them explain customs that you may not be aware of. They will also let you know things you can and can't do because your a foreigner. The more important thing though is how you plan on getting food, transportation, living, job, phone, insurance, etc.
EDIT: Also don't try to be the foreigner who things he is asian. I think they like it when people want to learn their culture but its annoying when people think they actually are a part of the culture. A common complaint seems to be that foreigners expect to be able to do anything and that the world should be more like them (this is mostly a sterotype with Americans but since your Canadian you will probably get grouped in with the Americans).
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On May 27 2011 09:59 Kipsate wrote:
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan)
Can you explain what happens with each race? I'm just curious
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On May 27 2011 10:25 hoot00 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 09:59 Kipsate wrote:
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan) Can you explain what happens with each race? I'm just curious
Its my understanding that a lot of older Koreans who are more traditional have a "dislike" of non white and asian people. Also a foreigner who looks Korean but doesn't speak Korean or know the customs is looked down on. I'm pretty sure caucasians are generally treated the best. The lighter the skin the more accepted it is. I think Koreans prize light skin.
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Korean is actually a tougher language to learn than Japanese. From English, Korean is considered a category 4 in difficulty, while Japanese is only a 3. This is based on the Defense Language Institute's categorization of languages. I spent a year and a half learning Korean and trust me, it's not really an easy thing to do. There are many homonyms and it borrows from Chinese much more readily than does Japanese.
I haven't really spent time in Japan, but did live in Korea for 2 years, so I can give you my experiences on that. It is a fairly xenophobic country, and there will be many times that you will be discriminated against. You can get over quite a bit of it by getting some Korean friends that you hang out with as well. Also, a lot of the discrimination comes from the strong U.S. military presence that exists in South Korea, especially Seoul. There's a bunch of ignorant people running around over there who don't try to learn the culture at all and do many things that are considered a spit in the face of their culture and beliefs.
You might have some hardships from time to time if you choose to go over there, but still it's a great country. Honestly, I think either country would be a great choice. While I was over in Korea a few of my American friends traveled over to Japan and they called it a cleaner, nicer Korea, so take that as you will. I thoroughly enjoyed my time over there, though.
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On May 27 2011 10:29 -swordguy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 10:25 hoot00 wrote:On May 27 2011 09:59 Kipsate wrote:
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan) Can you explain what happens with each race? I'm just curious Its my understanding that a lot of older Koreans who are more traditional have a "dislike" of non white and asian people. Also a foreigner who looks Korean but doesn't speak Korean or know the customs is looked down on. I'm pretty sure caucasians are generally treated the best. The lighter the skin the more accepted it is. I think Koreans prize light skin.
Yeah, you're right, but I've heard it both ways to be honest. You can never really know.\
On May 27 2011 10:32 Spell_Crafted wrote:
Korean is actually a tougher language to learn than Japanese. From English, Korean is considered a category 4 in difficulty, while Japanese is only a 3. This is based on the Defense Language Institute's categorization of languages. I spent a year and a half learning Korean and trust me, it's not really an easy thing to do. There are many homonyms and it borrows from Chinese much more readily than does Japanese.
I haven't really spent time in Japan, but did live in Korea for 2 years, so I can give you my experiences on that. It is a fairly xenophobic country, and there will be many times that you will be discriminated against. You can get over quite a bit of it by getting some Korean friends that you hang out with as well. Also, a lot of the discrimination comes from the strong U.S. military presence that exists in South Korea, especially Seoul. There's a bunch of ignorant people running around over there who don't try to learn the culture at all and do many things that are considered a spit in the face of their culture and beliefs.
You might have some hardships from time to time if you choose to go over there, but still it's a great country. Honestly, I think either country would be a great choice. While I was over in Korea a few of my American friends traveled over to Japan and they called it a cleaner, nicer Korea, so take that as you will. I thoroughly enjoyed my time over there, though.
Thanks for the reply. Is Korean really harder, though? I mean, it is definitely harder to speak, but reading/writing is much much easier. I am probably going to Japan for various reasons, but Korea is still a very open option that is out there but a lot of the things you talk about is what is holding me back. Of course there will be discrimination in Japan as well, but it's actually very minimal. From what I've seen, Japanese are much more quiet and not as blunt and "up-to-your-face" as Koreans are.
Also, I'd really love for a Korean TL'er to come and comment here because I really want an opinion of all this from a Korean's point of view as well.
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Osaka27105 Posts
On May 27 2011 10:32 Spell_Crafted wrote:
Korean is actually a tougher language to learn than Japanese. From English, Korean is considered a category 4 in difficulty, while Japanese is only a 3. This is based on the Defense Language Institute's categorization of languages. I spent a year and a half learning Korean and trust me, it's not really an easy thing to do. There are many homonyms and it borrows from Chinese much more readily than does Japanese.
I suggest you re-read the categorization. Japanese is a 2000 hour language, and is on the opposite end of the spectrum from English. It + Chinese are considered the least compatible languages with English. You can read about it on the CIA site where it talks about language training.
@OP, making life decisions about moving to another country based on vloggers on youtube is probably not the best idea. You are attempting to gain insight into a culture through a sliver of the population that may not best represent reality.
Instead, figure out what YOU want from living in another country. Bigots are everywhere, and so are welcoming people. Who you encounter will depend on who you are, not on society as a whole.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On a more pressing note, moving to another country is no joke, i'd spend atleast 2-3 months in the country of your choice , get to know it a bit before even attempting to go there. Mani is right btw, getting info from Vloggers is rather bad, their visions are skewed and they, like any media procure drama in order to draw more viewers to their channel, they will give you a wrong view of the society as a whole.
And I believe that Korean is easier then Japanese, but I could be wrong.
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Japanese is a terribly difficult language to learn. I am fluent in speaking, reading and writing Chinese (Mandarin) and English, and learning Japanese was still very difficult for me.
I took three classes in undergrad, and then spent over a year in total living in Japan, and I was still very very far from fluent or comfortable speaking it for that matter.
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I definately agree with you both; Mani and Kipsate, but I think you guys are misinterpreting me a little bit. I am not basing my decision entirely on vloggers. For a long time now, I've been dreaming to move to Japan (and recently Korea) because I love their culture and everything about the country. I do know what I want and I do (kind-of) know what I am going to expect. I watch the vloggers because I just want to know their experiences, to perhaps take a second thought about all this. And yes, I definately think Japanese is harder than Korean
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OP, why the hell u r leaving canada for some asian country anyway... i mean it cant be because of higher life standarts.
what are you into really?
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Meh, I was gonna write a long detailed post but I think most of the other replies have already covered it. If there's one piece of advice I can give you, it's to take everything you hear/read about Korea with a grain of salt, including what you read on these forums and including what Koreans themselves say.
I've lived here for 1.5 years and none of the things you talked about in the OP have ever happened to me, in fact based on my experience I find it hard to believe that some of these stories are even real. But at the same time, if you ask some people then they will tell you that they see incidents like this every other week. My point is that what kind of experience you'll have depends on a lot of factors which are mostly related to what kind of person you are and how you deal with unfamiliar situations rather than the country you choose.
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On May 27 2011 10:29 -swordguy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 10:25 hoot00 wrote:On May 27 2011 09:59 Kipsate wrote:
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan) Can you explain what happens with each race? I'm just curious Its my understanding that a lot of older Koreans who are more traditional have a "dislike" of non white and asian people. Also a foreigner who looks Korean but doesn't speak Korean or know the customs is looked down on. I'm pretty sure caucasians are generally treated the best. The lighter the skin the more accepted it is. I think Koreans prize light skin.
What he says is pretty much true, the worst is when you are actually Korean and can't speak Korean. The lighter the skin the more accepted sounds about right.
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Thanks for the response FuRong. I was expecting a response like that because, like I said, everyone's experience in a foreign country will always be different, no matter what. Generally though, I've heard a lot of negativity from foreigners living in Korea. I understand that there are some very ignorant foreigners that do not even try to become integrated into their culture, but some do and still are having negative experiences. I'm still waiting for a Korean to respond to all this, but I will take your advice. All I can do (if I choose to go to Korea) is hope for the best, I guess.
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not trying to be rude or anything, but do you actually know much about korea or japan, apart from the culture? have you considered important shit like job opportunities, education, cost of living, healthcare, rent/housing?
i always laugh when i see a serious blog about korea/japan and OP mentions their really beautiful women. there's beautiful women in every country, i really hope this isnt a really important factor in your decision to move overseas >.<
im pretty happy living in australia. if i were to move overseas, the country would have to have at least the same level of quality of life and opportunities. not saying korea and japan dont have this, but thats probably one of the first things id consider, and then all the other things like culture, technology etc etc
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EPT
