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Again, this is NOT related to StarCraft at all. This post WILL come off as ignorant, naive, and etc., so I apologize to everyone and especially the Koreans if I sound "offensive" or anything. Oh, and first blog post ;D.
Everything I am about to write is PURELY based on experiences of OTHER people (specifically YouTube vloggers in Korea and Japan). Also, this post will be mainly on LIVING in Korea, not just visiting.
It was always my dream to move to Asia. More recently, I really thought about my future and moving to Korea or Japan. I've watched vloggers on YouTube who live in Korea and Japan, and I will be beginning to learn either language (once I decide where I will decide to live). I am pretty set on moving to either country, I really do love both cultures (and from what I've seen, it's what really lacks in NA).
I've heard really really good things about both countries. A lot of generalizations and negativity, but generally very good. Both countries have a great nightlife, a lot of culture, great food, and really (I mean really beautiful women, but I made this blog post for a reason.
Foreigner treatment.
There will always be warm, friendly people, as well as cold and nasty ones. Yes, I WILL be generalizing a bit, and if I sound offensive, I'm really sorry, but this is all based on what I've heard, and getting information about this (especially from you Koreans here on TL!) is really important to me (kind of dictates where I will be moving in the future  ).
Japan.
A very nice country. LOVE the culture. The society seems to be very group-oriented, but not very excluding. Japanese people tend to be very very nice and welcoming overall to foreigners (I repeat once again; everything in this blog post is based on others' experiences). There really isn't too much to write or rant about here.
Korea.
Also a very nice country. The culture is there, but from what I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the most "Westernized". Now, HERE is where I get a lot of mixed information. From what I've heard, Korean people can be either very friendy or very hostile/un-welcoming. I've mostly heard the ranting, though. The experiences from the YouTube vloggers [who are quite old (e.g. BusanKevin has lived in Korea for about 4-5 years before moving to Japan) tells me that Koreans don't really like foreigners living in their country. I've heard about a LOT of discrimination (for example; before your contract ends for your ESL teaching, they would (uncommonly) abruptly end the contract and give you a very questionable reason like "the children thought you were mean", or something like that). You can't go to some bars or general areas of attraction because they restrict foreigners from doing so. People will stare at you (especially if you're in a smaller city/town), give you dirty looks, or even go completely hostile and attack you (again, this occurs very rarely, but it does happen). I've even heard that Korean men will verbally (or even physically) abuse you if you are seen with your Korean girlfriend. The list can go on, but all this honestly just frightens me,
Again, I really do love the cultures of both countries, but lately, I've been leading over to Japan a little more. Korea seems more appealing at first because of the culture being easier to get into and the language being much much easier to learn (no need to learn 328947289754 kanji)., but if you are going to be treated like this, what's the point?
Anyways, I really created this post for the Koreans here. Is all this true? I know EVERYONE'S experiences will be different, but is this the general treatment of foreigners in Korea? Should I still be hesitant to go there?
Thanks.
  
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it's just the city-dwellers that are aggressive iirc -- xenophobia is present in both countries but seem to mainly be restricted to dense urban areas
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
Heres my question, What are you planning to work as over there as the job market is quite competitive given the population density of both countries?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan)
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On May 27 2011 09:58 amazingxkcd wrote:
Heres my question, What are you planning to work as over there as the job market is quite competitive given the population density of both countries?
Well, as of now, the majority of foreigners living in both Korea and Japan teach English. I'm probably going to have to teach English, but I've also been interested in being a game developer (probably more likely in Japan than Korea, though).
On May 27 2011 09:59 Kipsate wrote:
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan)
Haha, I guess it does. I am an Egyptian, but apparently I look nothing like one. Everyone says I look white, and more recently; German (quite random, but okay!). Also, I've heard it is really easy to get into Japan. All you need is a Bachelor's degree (in anything) and you get a working visa from a work sponsor (which apparently is very easy to get because they recruit any english-speaking person to teach; especially in Korean I believe, where demand is higher).
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I'm considering doing study abroad in Korea for a year and I've been looking into some of these things myself. My first advice would be to worry more about things that will directly affect you such as living conditions, food, transport. No matter what country you go to you will face some kind of discrimination. Subtle things like odd looks and talking behind your back happen even in your own country. The most important thing is to not make a scene, your the foreigner so people will always judge you more than the neitzen. As far as I know you won't be attacked for being a foreigner (Kipsate is right though, your race does matter) but if you don't do anything to make yourself hated then people will very hesitant to do something racial to you in public as people care about their image. Areas where G.I.'s have caused problems tend to be the least trusting of foreigners. If you can try to find areas where there aren't military personal stationed. Your Canadian so you will often get grouped in as an American so just be sure to follow social norms. If your alone in a random neighborhood at 3am then there is a chance you could be attacked (especially if you have been drinking) but that will happen in pretty much every country. Korean is much easier to learn so if you want to be able to adapt to the culture easier then Korea will be the better choice. Both have plenty of opportunities to experience new things. People seem to be split on if its ok for foreigners to talk to Korean woman as it seems like certain cities are more traditional than others. I would get to know some of the locals of whatever country you chose and have them explain customs that you may not be aware of. They will also let you know things you can and can't do because your a foreigner. The more important thing though is how you plan on getting food, transportation, living, job, phone, insurance, etc.
EDIT: Also don't try to be the foreigner who things he is asian. I think they like it when people want to learn their culture but its annoying when people think they actually are a part of the culture. A common complaint seems to be that foreigners expect to be able to do anything and that the world should be more like them (this is mostly a sterotype with Americans but since your Canadian you will probably get grouped in with the Americans).
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On May 27 2011 09:59 Kipsate wrote:
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan)
Can you explain what happens with each race? I'm just curious
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On May 27 2011 10:25 hoot00 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 09:59 Kipsate wrote:
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan) Can you explain what happens with each race? I'm just curious
Its my understanding that a lot of older Koreans who are more traditional have a "dislike" of non white and asian people. Also a foreigner who looks Korean but doesn't speak Korean or know the customs is looked down on. I'm pretty sure caucasians are generally treated the best. The lighter the skin the more accepted it is. I think Koreans prize light skin.
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Korean is actually a tougher language to learn than Japanese. From English, Korean is considered a category 4 in difficulty, while Japanese is only a 3. This is based on the Defense Language Institute's categorization of languages. I spent a year and a half learning Korean and trust me, it's not really an easy thing to do. There are many homonyms and it borrows from Chinese much more readily than does Japanese.
I haven't really spent time in Japan, but did live in Korea for 2 years, so I can give you my experiences on that. It is a fairly xenophobic country, and there will be many times that you will be discriminated against. You can get over quite a bit of it by getting some Korean friends that you hang out with as well. Also, a lot of the discrimination comes from the strong U.S. military presence that exists in South Korea, especially Seoul. There's a bunch of ignorant people running around over there who don't try to learn the culture at all and do many things that are considered a spit in the face of their culture and beliefs.
You might have some hardships from time to time if you choose to go over there, but still it's a great country. Honestly, I think either country would be a great choice. While I was over in Korea a few of my American friends traveled over to Japan and they called it a cleaner, nicer Korea, so take that as you will. I thoroughly enjoyed my time over there, though.
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On May 27 2011 10:29 -swordguy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 10:25 hoot00 wrote:On May 27 2011 09:59 Kipsate wrote:
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan) Can you explain what happens with each race? I'm just curious Its my understanding that a lot of older Koreans who are more traditional have a "dislike" of non white and asian people. Also a foreigner who looks Korean but doesn't speak Korean or know the customs is looked down on. I'm pretty sure caucasians are generally treated the best. The lighter the skin the more accepted it is. I think Koreans prize light skin.
Yeah, you're right, but I've heard it both ways to be honest. You can never really know.\
On May 27 2011 10:32 Spell_Crafted wrote:
Korean is actually a tougher language to learn than Japanese. From English, Korean is considered a category 4 in difficulty, while Japanese is only a 3. This is based on the Defense Language Institute's categorization of languages. I spent a year and a half learning Korean and trust me, it's not really an easy thing to do. There are many homonyms and it borrows from Chinese much more readily than does Japanese.
I haven't really spent time in Japan, but did live in Korea for 2 years, so I can give you my experiences on that. It is a fairly xenophobic country, and there will be many times that you will be discriminated against. You can get over quite a bit of it by getting some Korean friends that you hang out with as well. Also, a lot of the discrimination comes from the strong U.S. military presence that exists in South Korea, especially Seoul. There's a bunch of ignorant people running around over there who don't try to learn the culture at all and do many things that are considered a spit in the face of their culture and beliefs.
You might have some hardships from time to time if you choose to go over there, but still it's a great country. Honestly, I think either country would be a great choice. While I was over in Korea a few of my American friends traveled over to Japan and they called it a cleaner, nicer Korea, so take that as you will. I thoroughly enjoyed my time over there, though.
Thanks for the reply. Is Korean really harder, though? I mean, it is definitely harder to speak, but reading/writing is much much easier. I am probably going to Japan for various reasons, but Korea is still a very open option that is out there but a lot of the things you talk about is what is holding me back. Of course there will be discrimination in Japan as well, but it's actually very minimal. From what I've seen, Japanese are much more quiet and not as blunt and "up-to-your-face" as Koreans are.
Also, I'd really love for a Korean TL'er to come and comment here because I really want an opinion of all this from a Korean's point of view as well.
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Osaka27146 Posts
On May 27 2011 10:32 Spell_Crafted wrote:
Korean is actually a tougher language to learn than Japanese. From English, Korean is considered a category 4 in difficulty, while Japanese is only a 3. This is based on the Defense Language Institute's categorization of languages. I spent a year and a half learning Korean and trust me, it's not really an easy thing to do. There are many homonyms and it borrows from Chinese much more readily than does Japanese.
I suggest you re-read the categorization. Japanese is a 2000 hour language, and is on the opposite end of the spectrum from English. It + Chinese are considered the least compatible languages with English. You can read about it on the CIA site where it talks about language training.
@OP, making life decisions about moving to another country based on vloggers on youtube is probably not the best idea. You are attempting to gain insight into a culture through a sliver of the population that may not best represent reality.
Instead, figure out what YOU want from living in another country. Bigots are everywhere, and so are welcoming people. Who you encounter will depend on who you are, not on society as a whole.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On a more pressing note, moving to another country is no joke, i'd spend atleast 2-3 months in the country of your choice , get to know it a bit before even attempting to go there. Mani is right btw, getting info from Vloggers is rather bad, their visions are skewed and they, like any media procure drama in order to draw more viewers to their channel, they will give you a wrong view of the society as a whole.
And I believe that Korean is easier then Japanese, but I could be wrong.
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Japanese is a terribly difficult language to learn. I am fluent in speaking, reading and writing Chinese (Mandarin) and English, and learning Japanese was still very difficult for me.
I took three classes in undergrad, and then spent over a year in total living in Japan, and I was still very very far from fluent or comfortable speaking it for that matter.
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I definately agree with you both; Mani and Kipsate, but I think you guys are misinterpreting me a little bit. I am not basing my decision entirely on vloggers. For a long time now, I've been dreaming to move to Japan (and recently Korea) because I love their culture and everything about the country. I do know what I want and I do (kind-of) know what I am going to expect. I watch the vloggers because I just want to know their experiences, to perhaps take a second thought about all this. And yes, I definately think Japanese is harder than Korean
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OP, why the hell u r leaving canada for some asian country anyway... i mean it cant be because of higher life standarts.
what are you into really?
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Meh, I was gonna write a long detailed post but I think most of the other replies have already covered it. If there's one piece of advice I can give you, it's to take everything you hear/read about Korea with a grain of salt, including what you read on these forums and including what Koreans themselves say.
I've lived here for 1.5 years and none of the things you talked about in the OP have ever happened to me, in fact based on my experience I find it hard to believe that some of these stories are even real. But at the same time, if you ask some people then they will tell you that they see incidents like this every other week. My point is that what kind of experience you'll have depends on a lot of factors which are mostly related to what kind of person you are and how you deal with unfamiliar situations rather than the country you choose.
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On May 27 2011 10:29 -swordguy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 10:25 hoot00 wrote:On May 27 2011 09:59 Kipsate wrote:
This is going to sound rather blunt but
Are you Asian, Caucasian or black?
It matters.
Edit: I left latin and stuff somewhere there, but you get the point.
Also I think Japan has like the worst Immigartion policy ever, its like impossible to get there unless you have like a high-tier job.
Look at your possibilities too. Even if you like country A better then B that does not mean that country A will accept you.(Like I said about Japan) Can you explain what happens with each race? I'm just curious Its my understanding that a lot of older Koreans who are more traditional have a "dislike" of non white and asian people. Also a foreigner who looks Korean but doesn't speak Korean or know the customs is looked down on. I'm pretty sure caucasians are generally treated the best. The lighter the skin the more accepted it is. I think Koreans prize light skin.
What he says is pretty much true, the worst is when you are actually Korean and can't speak Korean. The lighter the skin the more accepted sounds about right.
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Thanks for the response FuRong. I was expecting a response like that because, like I said, everyone's experience in a foreign country will always be different, no matter what. Generally though, I've heard a lot of negativity from foreigners living in Korea. I understand that there are some very ignorant foreigners that do not even try to become integrated into their culture, but some do and still are having negative experiences. I'm still waiting for a Korean to respond to all this, but I will take your advice. All I can do (if I choose to go to Korea) is hope for the best, I guess.
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not trying to be rude or anything, but do you actually know much about korea or japan, apart from the culture? have you considered important shit like job opportunities, education, cost of living, healthcare, rent/housing?
i always laugh when i see a serious blog about korea/japan and OP mentions their really beautiful women. there's beautiful women in every country, i really hope this isnt a really important factor in your decision to move overseas >.<
im pretty happy living in australia. if i were to move overseas, the country would have to have at least the same level of quality of life and opportunities. not saying korea and japan dont have this, but thats probably one of the first things id consider, and then all the other things like culture, technology etc etc
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On May 27 2011 11:03 Reyis wrote:
OP, why the hell u r leaving canada for some asian country anyway... i mean it cant be because of higher life standarts.
what are you into really?
Culture?
Can't speak for Seoul because I've only stayed there for four days, but Tokyo is a city like no other, and I choose it over Toronto, NYC, and SF any day.
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Agreed. If youre going to come to Korea, you better stay the hell away from our women. And yes, its some of your business, but for the good of our country these kind of contacts must be limited.
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On May 27 2011 11:31 Legatus Lanius wrote:
not trying to be rude or anything, but do you actually know much about korea or japan, apart from the culture? have you considered important shit like job opportunities, education, cost of living, healthcare, rent/housing?
i always laugh when i see a serious blog about korea/japan and OP mentions their really beautiful women. there's beautiful women in every country, i really hope this isnt a really important factor in your decision to move overseas >.<
im pretty happy living in australia. if i were to move overseas, the country would have to have at least the same level of quality of life and opportunities. not saying korea and japan dont have this, but thats probably one of the first things id consider, and then all the other things like culture, technology etc etc
Lool, it's okay. I'm still fairly young so I'm still quite naive. I do know quite a bit about both. Japan is a bit more expensive than Korea in general, but you don't HAVE to like in Tokyo/Seoul. You could live in Nagoya/Busan or something, where housing and cost of living is cheaper in general. And no, the women aren't really a big factor, haha. I do realize the reality. Japan is not going only be the Otaku's dream, and Korea isn't all about StarCraft and gaming (I still think it's pretty sad that people think that is so). I am generally bored here in North America. Canada/US is nice and all, but there isn't really something that interests me really (other than maybe California or something ). I've been to NYC, it's really not all that great. Downtown Toronto is boring (in my opinion). My whole life I've been immersed in the asian culture. I'm still kind of hesitant in moving, but my heart wants to go (I know that sounds REALLY cheesy but it is true. lol).
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On May 27 2011 11:38 xVoiid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 11:31 Legatus Lanius wrote:
not trying to be rude or anything, but do you actually know much about korea or japan, apart from the culture? have you considered important shit like job opportunities, education, cost of living, healthcare, rent/housing?
i always laugh when i see a serious blog about korea/japan and OP mentions their really beautiful women. there's beautiful women in every country, i really hope this isnt a really important factor in your decision to move overseas >.<
im pretty happy living in australia. if i were to move overseas, the country would have to have at least the same level of quality of life and opportunities. not saying korea and japan dont have this, but thats probably one of the first things id consider, and then all the other things like culture, technology etc etc Lool, it's okay. I'm still fairly young so I'm still quite naive. I do know quite a bit about both. Japan is a bit more expensive than Korea in general, but you don't HAVE to like in Tokyo/Seoul. You could live in Nagoya/Busan or something, where housing and cost of living is cheaper in general. And no, the women aren't really a big factor, haha. I do realize the reality. Japan is not going only be the Otaku's dream, and Korea isn't all about StarCraft and gaming (I still think it's pretty sad that people think that is so). I am generally bored here in North America. Canada/US is nice and all, but there isn't really something that interests me really (other than maybe California or something ). I've been to NYC, it's really not all that great. Downtown Toronto is boring (in my opinion). My whole life I've been immersed in the asian culture. I'm still kind of hesitant in moving, but my heart wants to go (I know that sounds REALLY cheesy but it is true. lol).
I wholeheartedly support your move, but what are you going to do there? Do you plan on living there forever?
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On May 27 2011 11:43 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 11:38 xVoiid wrote:On May 27 2011 11:31 Legatus Lanius wrote:
not trying to be rude or anything, but do you actually know much about korea or japan, apart from the culture? have you considered important shit like job opportunities, education, cost of living, healthcare, rent/housing?
i always laugh when i see a serious blog about korea/japan and OP mentions their really beautiful women. there's beautiful women in every country, i really hope this isnt a really important factor in your decision to move overseas >.<
im pretty happy living in australia. if i were to move overseas, the country would have to have at least the same level of quality of life and opportunities. not saying korea and japan dont have this, but thats probably one of the first things id consider, and then all the other things like culture, technology etc etc Lool, it's okay. I'm still fairly young so I'm still quite naive. I do know quite a bit about both. Japan is a bit more expensive than Korea in general, but you don't HAVE to like in Tokyo/Seoul. You could live in Nagoya/Busan or something, where housing and cost of living is cheaper in general. And no, the women aren't really a big factor, haha. I do realize the reality. Japan is not going only be the Otaku's dream, and Korea isn't all about StarCraft and gaming (I still think it's pretty sad that people think that is so). I am generally bored here in North America. Canada/US is nice and all, but there isn't really something that interests me really (other than maybe California or something ). I've been to NYC, it's really not all that great. Downtown Toronto is boring (in my opinion). My whole life I've been immersed in the asian culture. I'm still kind of hesitant in moving, but my heart wants to go (I know that sounds REALLY cheesy but it is true. lol). I wholeheartedly support your move, but what are you going to do there? Do you plan on living there forever?
I also ask this question to myself many times. Most foreigners teach English in both countries; that is a fact. Job selections are much more limited in Korea, but even with broader selection in Japan, it is still hard to get a job that is not ESL-teaching. I don't mind teaching, I still much prefer being a developer but we'll see how things go. Also, I'm not entirely sure whether I'm going to live there forever. It's a really hard thing to think about. It's kind of like relationships (lol). I'm not entirely sure if I'm "infatuated" with Japan/Korea or entirely in love. I do imagine living there for a very long time though. If I get married there, I will probably stay there forever, though. As long as I travel too, it won't be too bad I think.
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have you been there before? maybe for a holiday, or an extended living period?
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
It's completely up to the individual in my experience. I've met people from both ends of the scale (lovely Koreans who will go out of their way to help you even if you're complete strangers to those who think it's fun to mock/treat foreigners badly.) The most amusing thing to me has been the treatment of my Mom. Korea is still pretty much homogenous, and you generally don't see much in terms of 'alternative' fashion etc here (except for in university areas.)
My Mom has bright red dyed hair, 15 tattoos (on her neck, hands, arms etc.) and tonnes of ear piercings. However, her attitude is very respectful of Korean culture (she nods acknowledgement to older Koreans, uses formal language even if she only speaks a tiny bit of Korean and is super polite.) I was expecting her to get dirty looks due to her strange appearance, but instead she gets welcomed over to the 'senior' seats by grannies, and people treat her really nicely.
My best advice to people who want to live in Korea is - do your research. Ending up in a bad school, or without the correct and legal paperwork will only provide you with a bad experience. Also, lol @ people who think Korea is filled with beauties - I see maybe 1-2 girls a day in Seoul on my normal commute who would be considered 'above average.' Obviously, when you go to the richer districts such as Gangnam or Apgujeong this figure rises due to the amount of aspiring starlets and shop ladies wandering around, but these 'beautiful' girls aren't the only women in Korea.
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how about studying abroad in korea or japan? lesser commitment than immigrating over there and it will probably give you the best experience since you will have a lot more networking due to school and such.
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I don't know about Japan but in Korea it's basically like this.
If you actually try to learn Korean (unlike 95% of foreigners here), learn about life here and adapt then people will treat you with respect (and not that 'fake' respect reserved for white foreigners).
Old Korean men and women will rib you, you'll just have to learn to live with it, when I'm out with my girlfriend we get weird looks all the time but we speak in Korean, when those kinds of people hear me speaking Korean they usually mellow out. Invest the time in learning Korean, it is more than worth it, it opens a LOT of doors to you. Don't be one of those foreigners who only hangs out with other foreigners, it's important to make an effort.
I'm 24 and Irish, lived here for 3 years now and I still think it's amazing. But a lot of my foreign friends always complain about this and that and whatever. (The ones who don't are the ones who make an effort to adapt). If you want any advice feel free to PM me : )
Edit: I just want to make clear that if you come here with an open mind then living here can be a very very rewarding experience.
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From these posts, I surmise that White>Non-Korean (or Non-Japanese) Asians? Can someone explain that? I haven't found much perspective from a Asian(choose your ethnicity/nationality)-American or Asian-Canadian on Korea or Japan.
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I can't give you solid advice since everyone's experience seems to be differing, but I guess I'll throw in my experiences/what I've seen.
First, some background. My experience is, understandably, going to be different from your experience simply because I'm Korean by blood despite being born in the United States. I can read, write, and speak Korean fluently (well reading/writing not too fantastic but enough to live here). I've been living in a rural area of Korea for 15 months now.
I was obviously never met with any blatant racism since I look and speak like a Korean. As a gyopo, most people are intrigued when they find out that I was born/lived all of my life in the States rather than hostile. Every once in a while some friends of friends will throw a harsh remark at me because I don't have to serve in the military but that's about it. I conformed with Korean culture really easily as I grew up seeing it.
I have a white friend here who has been living here for 9 months now (yes, I have one white friend. I usually don't chill with foreigners ever so I don't really know any more). He fucking loves it. He even plans on settling down here. He has a Korean girlfriend, teaches English, attends college classes for Korean, and takes special cultural classes on the weekends to learn random shit like Korean traditional painting.
The way I see it there are two different types of foreigners. There's the one type that gives foreigners a bad name. It's easy to spot this type of foreigner. They'll get drunk everyday, hit on every woman in the street, refuse to learn any Korean, and flat out ignore Korean customs because they're entitled to act like they're in whatever country their passport says. There's a running joke here that with the English card (much like the black card) you can get out of anything. I'm ashamed to say, but I've pulled this card quite a few times getting out of tickets, fines, and even getting all of my hospital bills paid for when I was hit by a truck lols. Most Koreans don't want to go through the hassle of dealing with English speakers because they are either too incompetent at the English language or are too shy to even attempt to speak. Consequently, they simply let you do whatever you want. So, it's understandable to some degree why the first type of foreigner acts they way they do.
My white friend is the second type of foreigner. This type of foreigner is usually the type that did their homework before coming to the country and view their job/study in Korea as a privilege and not a right. They'll be the first to apologize and attempt at every moment to fit into Korea instead of trying to get Korea to fit in with them. This second type of foreigner is rarely looked down upon. Instead of trying to use simplified English in shops, he/she will use their broken-ass Korean and at least elicit some form of sympathy from the shop keepers. I used to take this white kid around to meet with my Korean buddies for dinner and drinks and he used to try so hard to speak Korean with them and really just viewed it all as a learning experience. My Korean buddies could see that and were eager to help. Koreans, even if they have a disdain for foreigners, still can see if you are earnestly trying to benefit Korea or are simply there to get your own. Don't worry so much about it.
Dunno how much help this will be but yeah.
edit: and I'm glad you realize that Korea is not starcraft and Japan is not anime. After living here for so long and socializing with so many Korean uni students, I have yet to meet anyone who plays starcraft or watches it. EVER (though, I did drag two of my close Korean American friends to the MSL and OSL finals last year. lost $300 betting on jaedong in MSL against kids who have never watched starcraft before. FML). In the pc bangs it's mostly just random old ajushi's playing every once in a while or a few uni kids playing a 3v3 on hunters.
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On May 27 2011 15:41 misclick wrote:
I can't give you solid advice since everyone's experience seems to be differing, but I guess I'll throw in my experiences/what I've seen.
First, some background. My experience is, understandably, going to be different from your experience simply because I'm Korean by blood despite being born in the United States. I can read, write, and speak Korean fluently (well reading/writing not too fantastic but enough to live here). I've been living in a rural area of Korea for 15 months now.
I was obviously never met with any blatant racism since I look and speak like a Korean. As a gyopo, most people are intrigued when they find out that I was born/lived all of my life in the States rather than hostile. Every once in a while some friends of friends will throw a harsh remark at me because I don't have to serve in the military but that's about it. I conformed with Korean culture really easily as I grew up seeing it.
I have a white friend here who has been living here for 9 months now (yes, I have one white friend. I usually don't chill with foreigners ever so I don't really know any more). He fucking loves it. He even plans on settling down here. He has a Korean girlfriend, teaches English, attends college classes for Korean, and takes special cultural classes on the weekends to learn random shit like Korean traditional painting.
The way I see it there are two different types of foreigners. There's the one type that gives foreigners a bad name. It's easy to spot this type of foreigner. They'll get drunk everyday, hit on every woman in the street, refuse to learn any Korean, and flat out ignore Korean customs because they're entitled to act like they're in whatever country their passport says. There's a running joke here that with the English card (much like the black card) you can get out of anything. I'm ashamed to say, but I've pulled this card quite a few times getting out of tickets, fines, and even getting all of my hospital bills paid for when I was hit by a truck lols. Most Koreans don't want to go through the hassle of dealing with English speakers because they are either too incompetent at the English language or are too shy to even attempt to speak. Consequently, they simply let you do whatever you want. So, it's understandable to some degree why the first type of foreigner acts they way they do.
My white friend is the second type of foreigner. This type of foreigner is usually the type that did their homework before coming to the country and view their job/study in Korea as a privilege and not a right. They'll be the first to apologize and attempt at every moment to fit into Korea instead of trying to get Korea to fit in with them. This second type of foreigner is rarely looked down upon. Instead of trying to use simplified English in shops, he/she will use their broken-ass Korean and at least elicit some form of sympathy from the shop keepers. I used to take this white kid around to meet with my Korean buddies for dinner and drinks and he used to try so hard to speak Korean with them and really just viewed it all as a learning experience. My Korean buddies could see that and were eager to help. Koreans, even if they have a disdain for foreigners, still can see if you are earnestly trying to benefit Korea or are simply there to get your own. Don't worry so much about it.
Dunno how much help this will be but yeah.
edit: and I'm glad you realize that Korea is not starcraft and Japan is not anime. After living here for so long and socializing with so many Korean uni students, I have yet to meet anyone who plays starcraft or watches it. EVER (though, I did drag two of my close Korean American friends to the MSL and OSL finals last year. lost $300 betting on jaedong in MSL against kids who have never watched starcraft before. FML). In the pc bangs it's mostly just random old ajushi's playing every once in a while or a few uni kids playing a 3v3 on hunters.
very good post
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Korea.
Also a very nice country. The culture is there, but from what I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the most "Westernized". Now, HERE is where I get a lot of mixed information. From what I've heard, Korean people can be either very friendy or very hostile/un-welcoming. I've mostly heard the ranting, though. The experiences from the YouTube vloggers [who are quite old (e.g. BusanKevin has lived in Korea for about 4-5 years before moving to Japan) tells me that Koreans don't really like foreigners living in their country. I've heard about a LOT of discrimination (for example; before your contract ends for your ESL teaching, they would (uncommonly) abruptly end the contract and give you a very questionable reason like "the children thought you were mean", or something like that). You can't go to some bars or general areas of attraction because they restrict foreigners from doing so. People will stare at you (especially if you're in a smaller city/town), give you dirty looks, or even go completely hostile and attack you (again, this occurs very rarely, but it does happen). I've even heard that Korean men will verbally (or even physically) abuse you if you are seen with your Korean girlfriend. The list can go on, but all this honestly just frightens me,
You left out the fact you need a korean citizenship to use the internet over there.
Anyway , just goes to show how racist some countries are in comparison to most western nations.
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On May 27 2011 10:48 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 10:32 Spell_Crafted wrote:
Korean is actually a tougher language to learn than Japanese. From English, Korean is considered a category 4 in difficulty, while Japanese is only a 3. This is based on the Defense Language Institute's categorization of languages. I spent a year and a half learning Korean and trust me, it's not really an easy thing to do. There are many homonyms and it borrows from Chinese much more readily than does Japanese. I suggest you re-read the categorization. Japanese is a 2000 hour language, and is on the opposite end of the spectrum from English. It + Chinese are considered the least compatible languages with English. You can read about it on the CIA site where it talks about language training.
That's fine and I'm not trying to argue, but I actually studied Korean at the defense language institute and know it's a category 4 language. Yes, reading is probably tougher for Chinese but the grammar patterns are incredibly simple. The problem with Korean is they occasionally use Chinese characters but will also use them just writing them in hangul without giving you the meaning through the various homonyms. Context is very important and can be easily lost in a conversation.
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On May 27 2011 16:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +
Korea.
Also a very nice country. The culture is there, but from what I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the most "Westernized". Now, HERE is where I get a lot of mixed information. From what I've heard, Korean people can be either very friendy or very hostile/un-welcoming. I've mostly heard the ranting, though. The experiences from the YouTube vloggers [who are quite old (e.g. BusanKevin has lived in Korea for about 4-5 years before moving to Japan) tells me that Koreans don't really like foreigners living in their country. I've heard about a LOT of discrimination (for example; before your contract ends for your ESL teaching, they would (uncommonly) abruptly end the contract and give you a very questionable reason like "the children thought you were mean", or something like that). You can't go to some bars or general areas of attraction because they restrict foreigners from doing so. People will stare at you (especially if you're in a smaller city/town), give you dirty looks, or even go completely hostile and attack you (again, this occurs very rarely, but it does happen). I've even heard that Korean men will verbally (or even physically) abuse you if you are seen with your Korean girlfriend. The list can go on, but all this honestly just frightens me,
You left out the fact you need a korean citizenship to use the internet over there. Anyway , just goes to show how racist some countries are in comparison to most western nations.
??? What's that supposed to mean?
Korea is more racist than, say, the US?
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On May 27 2011 16:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +
Korea.
Also a very nice country. The culture is there, but from what I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the most "Westernized". Now, HERE is where I get a lot of mixed information. From what I've heard, Korean people can be either very friendy or very hostile/un-welcoming. I've mostly heard the ranting, though. The experiences from the YouTube vloggers [who are quite old (e.g. BusanKevin has lived in Korea for about 4-5 years before moving to Japan) tells me that Koreans don't really like foreigners living in their country. I've heard about a LOT of discrimination (for example; before your contract ends for your ESL teaching, they would (uncommonly) abruptly end the contract and give you a very questionable reason like "the children thought you were mean", or something like that). You can't go to some bars or general areas of attraction because they restrict foreigners from doing so. People will stare at you (especially if you're in a smaller city/town), give you dirty looks, or even go completely hostile and attack you (again, this occurs very rarely, but it does happen). I've even heard that Korean men will verbally (or even physically) abuse you if you are seen with your Korean girlfriend. The list can go on, but all this honestly just frightens me,
You left out the fact you need a korean citizenship to use the internet over there. Anyway , just goes to show how racist some countries are in comparison to most western nations.
You need korean citizenship to use the internet? What?
At face value, you're saying that a foreigner can't even access an internet browser which is... bullshit.
Maybe you're trying to say that you need a Korean social security number to register with most online/free games? If so, that's only partly true. Any foreigner who plans on staying for an extended period of time (i.e. not on a tourist visa) will receive an alien registration card. On this card, you receive a temporary foreigner social security number. This number can be used to obtain health insurance, buy a car, rent an apartment, etc. Because Korea is currently experiencing a huge wave of foreigners entering the country on working or study visas, most game companies are attempting to broaden their horizons by offering separate registration for foreigners using their alien registration card social security number. You can also use this number to apply for internet/cable services.
I did all of the above using an alien registration card (I am a foreigner) so I don't know where you're pulling this shit from.
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i can't say anything definitively about korea as i only visited once, but my impression was that it was a more stand-offish and dirtier place than japan. i don't mean to sound rude at all, but this was my initial impression after living in japan for several months. i didn't feel the friendliness i felt here in japan and i think that was in part because of all the military guys i saw in seoul who came off as rather douchey and perhaps have left a bad impression of foreigners. i also noticed that people were taller and more bulky than people in japan and that nearly everyone had glasses and every girl had bangs heheh.
i really did like my time in korea, though. the subway system was fantastic and spacious, and things are indeed much cheaper in korea than japan. the food is better too imo (they actually have spicy food and great street vendors). but yeah, taxis/trains/food wayyy cheaper in korea than japan. oh yeah, and korea has heated floors whereas japan has very shitty insulation (which sucks when it's cold out).
as for japan itself, i have had a blast here so far (living here a bit under a year). people are very welcoming and people will tend to be interested in you just because you're a foreigner. you are almost guaranteed to pick up a japanese girlfriend if you want one within a month. there have been conflicting opinions in this thread about how difficult japanese is to learn, and i would just say you get what you put into it. some people complain that japanese is difficult but really never study, so of course they don't improve. that being said, i think speaking and communicating is much easier to learn than reading and writing once you have some basic grammar down. and if you teach english or live in japan then you'll have to use at least some japanese everyday (where writing/reading you'll barely have to use save for some name/address documents and the grocery store).
there's really a lot to say, but it depends on what you want to hear about (if you want to hear anything at all). feel free to inquire into whatever (i see there are other people living here like manifesto that would probably also be happy to correspond). i'm also from toronto ^^
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On May 27 2011 16:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +
Korea.
Also a very nice country. The culture is there, but from what I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the most "Westernized". Now, HERE is where I get a lot of mixed information. From what I've heard, Korean people can be either very friendy or very hostile/un-welcoming. I've mostly heard the ranting, though. The experiences from the YouTube vloggers [who are quite old (e.g. BusanKevin has lived in Korea for about 4-5 years before moving to Japan) tells me that Koreans don't really like foreigners living in their country. I've heard about a LOT of discrimination (for example; before your contract ends for your ESL teaching, they would (uncommonly) abruptly end the contract and give you a very questionable reason like "the children thought you were mean", or something like that). You can't go to some bars or general areas of attraction because they restrict foreigners from doing so. People will stare at you (especially if you're in a smaller city/town), give you dirty looks, or even go completely hostile and attack you (again, this occurs very rarely, but it does happen). I've even heard that Korean men will verbally (or even physically) abuse you if you are seen with your Korean girlfriend. The list can go on, but all this honestly just frightens me,
You left out the fact you need a korean citizenship to use the internet over there. Anyway , just goes to show how racist some countries are in comparison to most western nations.
What lol?What is this even supposed to mean?.
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On May 27 2011 16:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +
Korea.
Also a very nice country. The culture is there, but from what I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the most "Westernized". Now, HERE is where I get a lot of mixed information. From what I've heard, Korean people can be either very friendy or very hostile/un-welcoming. I've mostly heard the ranting, though. The experiences from the YouTube vloggers [who are quite old (e.g. BusanKevin has lived in Korea for about 4-5 years before moving to Japan) tells me that Koreans don't really like foreigners living in their country. I've heard about a LOT of discrimination (for example; before your contract ends for your ESL teaching, they would (uncommonly) abruptly end the contract and give you a very questionable reason like "the children thought you were mean", or something like that). You can't go to some bars or general areas of attraction because they restrict foreigners from doing so. People will stare at you (especially if you're in a smaller city/town), give you dirty looks, or even go completely hostile and attack you (again, this occurs very rarely, but it does happen). I've even heard that Korean men will verbally (or even physically) abuse you if you are seen with your Korean girlfriend. The list can go on, but all this honestly just frightens me,
You left out the fact you need a korean citizenship to use the internet over there. Anyway , just goes to show how racist some countries are in comparison to most western nations.
im not korean and im posting this from korea. if posting on team liquid isnt using internet in korea, i dont know what is.
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OK sorry the card i am referring to is "Korean Alien registration card"
http://www.eslsouthkorea.net/alien-registration-card.html
Your Alien Registration Card is your national identification card that proves you are legally allowed to work and live in the Korea. It provides you with special privileges such as opening a bank account (though it is possible to open an account with just a passport as well) or registering for medical insurance. Things that you can't do when on a tourist visa.
The Alien Card contains your Alien Registration number which is the foreigner's version of a Korean's government-issued ID number. The Alien Registration number serves the same purpose as a Social Security number in the States, or a National ID Number in South Africa.
Alien Cards are issued by the Korean Immigration service and you'll need your card within 90 days after you've landed in Korea to avoid becoming a illegal alien. The card application process is normally something your employer will help you with and entails visiting a Korean Immigration office in your city with the following documents:
- Your Passport
- 2x Passport Photos
- 10,000 Administration Fee
- Your employers company registration certificate. Your school will provide this.
Alien Cards should be kept on your person at all times during your stay in Korea, since they serve as as identification documents. Alien cards are surrendered to customs when you leave Korea at the end of your contract.
Limitations of the Alien Card
Unfortunetaly, there are certain limitations you'll encounter with an Alien card and despite the fact that it's supposed to be the Foreigners' version of a Korean ID card, certain government initiated restrictions are imposed upon the Alien card.
The most obvious of these will manifest when you need to enter your Alien Registrations number to use a service on a Korean website. Since Korea is a digitally charged country with an Internet literate population, everything from movie tickets to Pizzas are booked and paid for online. Makes life very convenient, but there's a hiccup. Any Korean using these online services need to enter their 13 digit National ID number (in compliance with Korean Internet-anonymity laws). But when a foreigner does the same with his number, it doesn't work...
It's almost never accepted and usually rejected as unrecognized or erroneous. The reason for this is found in the difference between the final digits of the numbers. A Korean's registration number ends in 1 or 2 (to indicate male of female), but a foreigners number ends in 5 or 6.
Korean Immigration Service
Korean ID numbers are still required on most websites, even for services targeting foreign residents and visitors. A few sites do, however, now accept foreign ID numbers or have eliminated the requirement.
A simple issue that the Korean Government could easily address and fix. It'll make life easier for the thousands of English Teachers and US Military personnel in Korea. They just haven't got to it yet :-(
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Whenever I have run into any problem with the alien registration card number not being recognized, I simply called in and explained my problem. I've never been denied a service. Most companies acknowledge this fault and are beginning to take steps to fix this. It's definitely an inconvenience compared to just typing in your number and getting it over with, but it's hardly a valid point to reject the notion of moving to Korea. Calling it in and even pulling the English card (see earlier post) will expedite any issue.
Anyways ordering food (including pizza) is still largely done over the phone and not through the internet (similar to the states imo). Most of the smaller chains don't even have the option to order online.
Movie tickets... eh... majority still buys in person at the box office though I admit more and more people are beginning to reserve their tickets online.
My main issues with this problem is trying to post on Korean cafes and register for certain smaller websites.
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Woooow, thank you all for the replies (especially YOU misclick o_o). You've all given me various perspectives on this issue, and it helps a lot. Misclick, you mostly talked about the attitude of foreigners. I understand that foreigners who don't even attempt to "immersify" into the Korean culture are giving foreigners in general a bad look. I, for one, am not like that. I DO (or I guess, will) learn about the cultures, and I definately will learn (either) language, once I decide where to go. I will also be even more encouraged to learn the language once I live in whatever country, because no one would want the feeling of being alone in a foreign country. GG_NO_RE, your response is exactly what I've heard about Japan mainly, but I completely understand why many Koreans (moreso the old and traditional ones) frown upon many foreigners. And again, everyone's experiences will differ.
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you said all in a few words, its up to personal experience, but it is true that some korean men dont like the idea of a korean girl going physical with a western man.
about color, like in many places in the world, a fair skin(for woman) and a light tanned skin (for men) is the ideal of beauty, while going darker than that specially for girls, is seen with bad eyes by older people. But its not a reason to carry the fear of racism feeling when travelling to these countries, i would say that latin americans(mostly south) due to their european-native amerindian mixed nature, and european pure white people are the ones who experience less xenophoby or racism indeed and the ones who experience most west-east relationships, like - the huge ammount of brazilian-japanese marriages , and chinese-american, korean-western~
but i wouldnt say that the racism in asia is bigger than the racism in west, the later one seems bigger
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I've been living in Korea for slightly over 3 weeks. I love this place so far. Unfortunately, I can't really give you much advice as I am still a novice here myself, but I'll tell you that teaching English is ridiculously easy. By the way, I tried applying to teach English in Japan before deciding on Korea and I got turned down. There are way more people applying for jobs to Japan than there are jobs, mostly due to anime. If you want a job teaching English in Korea, you are guaranteed a position. There are more Hagwon jobs than there are people applying. Good luck with your decision!
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On May 27 2011 22:24 Cull wrote:
I've been living in Korea for slightly over 3 weeks. I love this place so far. Unfortunately, I can't really give you much advice as I am still a novice here myself, but I'll tell you that teaching English is ridiculously easy. By the way, I tried applying to teach English in Japan before deciding on Korea and I got turned down. There are way more people applying for jobs to Japan than there are jobs, mostly due to anime. If you want a job teaching English in Korea, you are guaranteed a position. There are more Hagwon jobs than there are people applying. Good luck with your decision!
do you speak korean?
how does one lecture normally go and what is expected of you as a teacher?
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I was interested in moving to either of those countries too when I was younger mainly because the culture is so different an fascinating and partly because I liked asian women(which changed totally now). I don't know if you have watched BBC's Japanorama but it is quite interesting. While I still like a lot of it's cultural aspects there are also quite a few that I disagree with, like the already mentioned racism, the ungodly job hours or the growing importance of status and materialism that lead to an estimate of 1/3 of all school girls prostituting themselfs to buy designer cloths(wtf?). I find both countries obsession with youth and beauty quite disturbing and incredible shallow(korea highest rate of plastic surgery in the world or a pop music industry that produces plastic dolls - assembly line style). Also I would never want my kid to go through their educational systems and sit in school til 9pm.
This post sounded so negative right now, but yeah it is usually quite easy to see the good qualities of somethings but you have to dig to find the ugly ones.
Also what I would consider when moving there:
1) Natural disasters especially in Japan, which could fuck your whole life up.
2) Geopolitical situation. Dispute over land between Korea, Japan and Russia for example over the Kuril Islands. Korea got a scary neighbour with North Korea and they are both close to China who isn't the nicest kid on the playground too.
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Also a very nice country. The culture is there, but from what I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the most "Westernized". Now, HERE is where I get a lot of mixed information. From what I've heard, Korean people can be either very friendy or very hostile/un-welcoming.
Koreans do not throw stones at white people, please do not be alarmed. Infact I don't think there are alot people around the world who throws stones at foreigners in their own countries.
I'm pretty sure even the KKK don't stone people anymore.
I've mostly heard the ranting, though. The experiences from the YouTube vloggers [who are quite old (e.g. BusanKevin has lived in Korea for about 4-5 years before moving to Japan) tells me that Koreans don't really like foreigners living in their country. I've heard about a LOT of discrimination (for example; before your contract ends for your ESL teaching, they would (uncommonly) abruptly end the contract and give you a very questionable reason like "the children thought you were mean", or something like that).
Hawk-wons (non school institutions for teaching english) are trash. It is a dirty business and nothing 'noble' about it. Foreigners are NOT the only people who get the short stick.
My best friend (who is korean born, not Korean American) who goes to UCLA once taught at a Hawk-won. The director gave him a fake diploma with UPENN written on it. She also asked him if he had any havard friends so they can get some college flags to post on their walls.
Yes this is a retarded business but nobody questions it when you're earning 50-100 dollars (per kid) an hour teaching 4 grade engrish to a bunch of kids.
You can't go to some bars or general areas of attraction because they restrict foreigners from doing so. People will stare at you (especially if you're in a smaller city/town), give you dirty looks, or even go completely hostile and attack you (again, this occurs very rarely, but it does happen). I've even heard that Korean men will verbally (or even physically) abuse you if you are seen with your Korean girlfriend. The list can go on, but all this honestly just frightens me,
Oh my god you know what pisses me off? Foreigners describe every asian country/city aside from HongKong and Japan a total racist poorass cesspool. Seriously what the hell man?
Again, I really do love the cultures of both countries, but lately, I've been leading over to Japan a little more. Korea seems more appealing at first because of the culture being easier to get into and the language being much much easier to learn (no need to learn 328947289754 kanji)., but if you are going to be treated like this, what's the point?
nobody treats you like that my god.
Who in the world would treat you like that during this time of day
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Don't let racial discrimination affect your decision to go or not. Obviously there are pricks and racist people in every country. Growing up I was made fun of and discriminated for being Asian in America and heck I often get dirty looks for having a White girlfriend even in an extremely liberal college. But the good out ways the bad you will find more people friendly then not and your experiences better than bad.
And my White friends who actually visited and went to Korea have said they were treated very nicely and even kinda like rock stars among Korean children for being American/White. Only thing is the humidity in the summer will make you want to shoot yourself haha unless you have AC on 24/7 which my relatives refused to do ever 
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On May 28 2011 01:25 Konamix wrote:Show nested quote +Also a very nice country. The culture is there, but from what I've seen (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems to be the most "Westernized". Now, HERE is where I get a lot of mixed information. From what I've heard, Korean people can be either very friendy or very hostile/un-welcoming. Koreans do not throw stones at white people, please do not be alarmed. Infact I don't think there are alot people around the world who throws stones at foreigners in their own countries. I'm pretty sure even the KKK don't stone people anymore. Show nested quote + I've mostly heard the ranting, though. The experiences from the YouTube vloggers [who are quite old (e.g. BusanKevin has lived in Korea for about 4-5 years before moving to Japan) tells me that Koreans don't really like foreigners living in their country. I've heard about a LOT of discrimination (for example; before your contract ends for your ESL teaching, they would (uncommonly) abruptly end the contract and give you a very questionable reason like "the children thought you were mean", or something like that). Hawk-wons (non school institutions for teaching english) are trash. It is a dirty business and nothing 'noble' about it. Foreigners are NOT the only people who get the short stick. My best friend (who is korean born, not Korean American) who goes to UCLA once taught at a Hawk-won. The director gave him a fake diploma with UPENN written on it. She also asked him if he had any havard friends so they can get some college flags to post on their walls. Yes this is a retarded business but nobody questions it when you're earning 50-100 dollars (per kid) an hour teaching 4 grade engrish to a bunch of kids. Show nested quote + You can't go to some bars or general areas of attraction because they restrict foreigners from doing so. People will stare at you (especially if you're in a smaller city/town), give you dirty looks, or even go completely hostile and attack you (again, this occurs very rarely, but it does happen). I've even heard that Korean men will verbally (or even physically) abuse you if you are seen with your Korean girlfriend. The list can go on, but all this honestly just frightens me, Oh my god you know what pisses me off? Foreigners describe every asian country/city aside from HongKong and Japan a total racist poorass cesspool. Seriously what the hell man? Show nested quote +Again, I really do love the cultures of both countries, but lately, I've been leading over to Japan a little more. Korea seems more appealing at first because of the culture being easier to get into and the language being much much easier to learn (no need to learn 328947289754 kanji)., but if you are going to be treated like this, what's the point? nobody treats you like that my god. Who in the world would treat you like that during this time of day
Never did I say they were gonna throw stones at foreigners, that's not what I meant. I also didn't say that Korea is a completely racist country. I understand that there is discrimination everywhere. Do you honestly think I wouldn't expect to me discriminated in some way at all? I'm simply asking about the degree of the discrimination. I know that there will be people that will hand things to you on a silver platter, and I know that there are some that will treat you like dirt. I'm talking about the GENERAL attitude/perspectives of the majority of Koreans. And I'll repeat for the 12379th time, everything I wrote is based off of experiences of others, not mine. These are all accounts of foreigners living in Korea (and Japan), and some will get unlucky.
On May 28 2011 02:22 Rokusha wrote:Don't let racial discrimination affect your decision to go or not. Obviously there are pricks and racist people in every country. Growing up I was made fun of and discriminated for being Asian in America and heck I often get dirty looks for having a White girlfriend even in an extremely liberal college. But the good out ways the bad you will find more people friendly then not and your experiences better than bad. And my White friends who actually visited and went to Korea have said they were treated very nicely and even kinda like rock stars among Korean children for being American/White. Only thing is the humidity in the summer will make you want to shoot yourself haha unless you have AC on 24/7 which my relatives refused to do ever
Thanks. You're right, I shouldn't let the experiences of others determine whether or not I should go. I don't have to live there forever. If I really don't have a good time, I'll emigrate. What others have been through will not necessarily account for me.
I guess there doesn't needs to be any more posts, unless you want to contribute more or something.
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Calgary25980 Posts
Never had any of the issues referenced in the OP.
Edit: I actually went there, but I didn't make a Youtube Vlog so maybe that's why.
Edit 2: I didn't live there either! Was in Korea for 70 days and Japan for 4.
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Just wanted to add a few little thing that may or may not be helpful. First, background: I'm Chinese-American, don't know either Korean or Japanese (and my Chinese is elementary at best--don't know if that's a factor in my later discussion on the languages), and I just recently came back from a vacation to both Japan and Korea. (If you recall the "WTB Friend in Seoul" thread, that was me.)
I know I wasn't there for very long at all and can't offer a good idea of the living experience, but for what it's worth during my trip Japan was more foreign-friendly. A big thing was the fact that my 10-word or so Japanese vocabulary went a LOT further than my equivalent Korean vocabulary. I feel like it's because English speech translates well into Japanese speech, whereas Korean requires a different inflection (it's more "nasally," for lack of a better term).
An example with cab drivers: when I said "Cheongdam-dong" to a taxi driver, they would have no idea what I was saying 3 out of 4 times, although I tried my best to mimic the natives. But with Japanese cab drivers, I say "Akihabara" once as I would if I were speaking English and off we go. I even sort of realized this before my trip when I was just looking at romanized song lyrics for kpop and jpop--with jpop it's just a lot easier to follow along, but with kpop I would always think, "that's how they pronounce it?"
There may be hidden factors and this is a mistaken attribution to a relationship with English--it may be due to the fact that, like you, I was interested in Japanese culture long before I was in Korean culture and have thus subconsciously acclimated to their speech just from watching anime/jdrama (ha), or a closer relationship of Japanese to Chinese than Korean to Chinese, which, due to my background, made Japanese seem more natural (they both seem pretty far from Chinese in speech though). So take my experience with a grain of salt.
In terms of writing and reading though I definitely agree that Japanese should be harder. Also once you add in honorifics and whatnot to the mix, Japanese can be crazy confusing. As a foreigner though, and a "white" one, I don't think anyone will expect you to know anything, and will be comically impressed when you do.
That's another point I wanted to touch upon--since you are a "white" foreigner, you appear obviously foreign, which I believe (backed with the opinions and experiences of the friends I met who live in Japan/Korea) will make them treat you nicer than someone like me, who could be Korean/Japanese and is spoken to in said language, to which I have to profess ignorance. There's psychological and cultural forces at work there, but it ends up in your favor.
Also, even in the high-density tourist areas I visited, more Japanese on average seemed to know English when compared to Koreans. In Korea I had to apply my full repertoire of hand gestures. Of course, you plan on knowing the language when you get there so this may not be a concern for you, but if you ever have a lapse or lack the vocabulary, it's good to know.
Lastly, and for me this was a very important practical concern, Japan and Korea have some of the cleanest public bathrooms I have ever seen. Haha you probably think this is a bit weird to say but I was coming from China and China....@.@ So at least don't worry about that!
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Calgary25980 Posts
On cabs: I think the average Korean has never heard a foreigner speak Korean. So it's either perfect Korean or they can't understand what the fuck you're saying. "anamdong euro ga juseyo" got me taken to hannam or gangnam once each. Sometimes the cab just said "ne?" "ne?" "NEEEE?" until I got out.
It goes both ways. I've had a few foreigner (Korean/Japanese) friends so I can understand broken English pretty easily. But when my Canadian friends talk to them they can't understand anything. It's nothing conscious, it's just exposure to hearing a broken version of your language.
I had the exact reverse experience from you, but it was purely a language thing. I felt insanely isolated and useless in Japan, but I felt pretty comfortable in Korea.
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:O Chill! I am honoured. xP haha
Thanks for the long response twelveapm. o_o I agree with you, Japanese seems much easier just because of the fact that I am more experienced and exposed to it, much more than Korean. Sure, it IS hard and you will learn kanji for basically the majority of your whole life, but if you're determined at achieving something, anything is possible.
I understand your point of view. Because of visiting, you won't need to learn the language, really, but when you live there, being isolated/alone will just encourage you more to learn the language, I think.
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Yeah I have liven in Korea for about 2 years now, a lot of positives and negatives. Learning the language helps. Speaking of which, any of you guys working over here also? I want to meet some people over here who are into SC that are not Korean. Also, if any of you wanna check out the GSL 목동 that'd be awesome.
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There is always bias towards the negative side of things, when you are reading online reviews. I think this is much the same. People are more likely to warn others about a negative experience, while there can be a huge number of people who have had positive experiences, but the only people they tell are family/friends.
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You'd be absollutely insane to wanna be a minority in a society. Especially in such homogenized as japan/korea. But if you're white american, I guess it will be a good experience and a lesson. Its not often you get to be a minority.
Japanese is romanized better. For english speaker, it will be much easier to speak and read romanized japanese. Its quite the opposite when it comes to reading actual native text though. Japanese has 3 different writing format and one of them is based on chinese character which you'll find difficult unless you're asian.
Korean writing on the other hand is pretty simple. And they rarely use chinese character system anymore. You might see it in newspaper to clarify homonyms or. Some high academic papers.
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On May 27 2011 23:03 Skilledblob wrote:
do you speak korean?
how does one lecture normally go and what is expected of you as a teacher?
I don't speak Korean at all. Lectures are normally either 25 or 50 minutes long, and very easy. I just go over whatever is in the book. I am very impressed by the level of English most of my students have, other than the youngest ones who are like kindergarten age.
As for the guy above who said all the bad things about Hagwons, I wouldn't believe him. Yes, there are definitely shady businesses. And in the past, it was pretty bad. But the Korean government has done a lot to help foreigners employed by these people. You now have legal recourse if your job screws you over, and are more than likely (90%?) to get everything that is owed to you. If you choose to find a job at a Hagwon, make sure you go through a good recruiter and ask the right questions when it is interview time. Make sure you talk to a current foreign employee there. They will give you the truth of the situation. I would say pretty much no Hagwons will ask you to teach with a fake college degree anymore, though years ago they would. The government is just so much stricter on this kind of thing now.
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On May 28 2011 08:21 dl_usf wrote:
Yeah I have liven in Korea for about 2 years now, a lot of positives and negatives. Learning the language helps. Speaking of which, any of you guys working over here also? I want to meet some people over here who are into SC that are not Korean. Also, if any of you wanna check out the GSL 목동 that'd be awesome.
I'm teaching English down south in Pohang. Where are you?
Long post incoming...
Okay, OP, first rule when reading/watching those comments on South Korea is that people often only talk about that stuff to blow off steam so it's often very skewed in the negative. Way back in 2004/5 when I was leading up to my first trip to Korea, I had the same reaction. I had read so much stuff on Korea (eslcafe.com is a good resource for general Korean living questions) that I almost changed my mind. You read a lot of negative things (and in your case watch) because how many people really go on and post with regularity about how great their Korean experience is? Not many. So it begins to look more and more bleak. But that's simply not true.
I've been here 4 years now (non-consecutive, I went home for awhile and came back) and my experience (as a white person) has been 98% positive. But, let's address some of your specific issues.
Foreigner treatment:
Almost without exception, you will be treated as you treat others. I've had some black friends who have been on the wrong end of discrimination and that sucks, but I've never seen a black person regret coming here or have such a miserable experience that they wouldn't come back. A good buddy of mine, a black guy, got a job at a uni in Dajeon a few months ago and is having the time of his life. He loves it here. He gets the discrimination from time to time, but he seems to accept it as just part of doing business in Korea.
If you show respect then you will be respected in return. And if they see you speaking Korean, they will practically gush on you. I had dinner with a friend of mine last night at a korean meat place and I ordered in Korean, asked questions about the menu in Korean, etc. and the adjummas (korean for older woman/married woman) were so tickled that I spoke Korean and understood them that they took turns cooking all our food as we sat and talked. No one else in the restaurant got that service. And my friend is from Staten Island but is of Indian descent and has very dark skin. If he stays out in the sun too long, he'd pass for black.
As for getting attacked, unless your a douche bag, I can say with authority that you will never be attacked. Every so often a korean adjosshi (counter to adjumma, means older Korean man) will get shit-faced and want to get a bug up his ass about some foreigner with a Korean woman but it is extremely rare. I've dated Korean women exclusively since I came here and I've gotten a couple of looks, mostly from the adjosshis, but it's never escalated. I just laugh about it and so does the girl I'm with. I've been in bars where drunk adjosshis get angry that the bartenders (always beautiful girls) because they pay so much attention to foreigners, but the adjosshis are in foreigner bars (not exclusive to foreigners, for sure, but largely frequented by them) and that's their primary business. Foreigner bars, as a rule, don't like Korean men coming in and getting drunk because after a couple of hours, when they're nodding into their beer mug and trying not to sick up, they want to start shit. I've heard stories of adjosshis getting in the face of some poor Korean girl out with her boyfriend or of some foreigner getting yelled at and poked but it's always second/third/fourth hand and I've never known anyone that's experienced it. Even my black friend. He's a straight up player and while he draws more looks than I do if he's out with a girl, he doesn't have that kind of trouble either.
There are places that won't deal with foreigners. Some friends and I wanted to go to a Korean night club once and we were turned down because we weren't Korean and we had no Koreans with us. We went back again later with a Korean friend and we got in. If you're a fan of the ladies of the night (read: hookers) some of them won't do business with foreigners either. And, as someone said, where you live makes a big difference. A few bad soldiers can spoil it for everyone else. However, if you don't look like a soldier, sometimes they'll let it slide. Places like Daegu, Soul, Busan or Ulsan, where there are a lot of Army, Navy and Marines running around, you can run in to more resistance because they have developed a bad reputation over the years. Sometimes it's not always deserved, but other times it's very deserved.
To sum up, I'd say don't let this bother you. It's not something you'll likely ever experience. Assuming you're not a douche bag, that is. 
The Language:
Should you learn it? Yes. Is it easy? Hell-to-the-frelling-no! Korean is a bitch. Reading it, easy. You can learn to read it in a couple of days and, assuming you practice, you will pick up speed over a few months. Understanding it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort. But the rewards are incalculable. Whether it's more difficult than Japanese or not is irrelevant. If you want to come here, your experience would be vastly improved, the more Korean you speak. The same is true for Japan, I'm sure. That being said, you actually don't have to learn it at all. You'll need some stock phrases of course, but I've known foreigners that have been here for years and never got beyond those stock phrases and they do just fine. I don't think much of them myself, but it's not really my business. Koreans don't think much of them either, but they leave them alone.
I have studied off and on in my four years here but it was never a concerted effort. This year I decided to really put the time in and I've improved a lot. I still have miles to go, but every time I recognize a new word, it makes it worth it. I'm at the point now where I'm able to date a girl that speaks almost no English. We can't talk about politics and things like that, and it is a struggle at times, but we are able to communicate. At this point, I speak more Korean than almost any foreigner I have ever met in Korea. And the Koreans that deal with foreigners recognize that and I get a lot of respect for it or, as in the case of the restaurant last night, a little extra service. Last saturday I was at a bar and I was speaking Korean to the bartenders and they went to the other end of the bar to tell the other people how good my Korean was. They love it! And it made me feel good. And I could tell that the bartender was impressed and if I wasn't with my girl, I could have been with her.
Koreans are very nationalistic and they're very proud of their country, their language and their heritage. So when you show that you appreciate it, respect it and want to learn more about it, race for most of them almost becomes a non-issue (if it even was before, which it's not for most Koreans.) They want outsiders to love Korea as much as they do and they want to share it with you. The language is the first step.
Someone above me mentioned taxis and the difficulty in Korea. That, unfortunately, can be a reality. But if it makes you feel better, it's not only foreigners that that happens to. Koreans have that problem, too! The Korean language does not tolerate accents very well. And Korean accents can be very thick and unintelligible to other Koreans. I was actually just talking to one of my adult students yesterday and she said when her and her husband travel to Seoul, she has to do most of the talking when it's time to conduct some kind of transaction, because the people in Seoul can't understand his thick accent. And he's Korean!
As an English speaker, this is hard for us to grasp. Idioms aside, someone from Canada can understand someone from the U.S., South Africa, Australia, etc. and vice versa. And not only that, we can understand non-native speakers from other countries who speak heavily accented English. Koreans have trouble understanding each other even when they're separated by only a few hours drive. The best way to get around this is try to mimic the accent of whatever area you live in. My Korean most likely has the Gyungsan Bukdo accent (where I have lived in my time here) but my Korean teacher speaks with a Seoul accent (a recognized accent, and considered standard) so that's helping. I'm not good enough yet to really distinguish accents though, this is just want I'm told.
So there will be bumps on the road. If you're just patient and repeat it a few times, usually the cabby will know what you're talking about. One time I ran in to a group of Marines getting out of a taxi after having circled downtown for 20 minutes, trying to tell the cab driver TGI Fridays when they were only three blocks away. It was funny and sad.
The Job
The debate between hagwons vs. public schools is as old as the debate between which country has the hotter girls. Both have their pros and cons. I personally like hagwons because I've found a great boss and I like the small class sizes. My biggest class is 8 students and I have a good relationship with some of them. I've been teaching some of these same kids for 2 years and I get to kind of watch them grow up. You won't get that kind of thing in a public school. Not to mention the class sizes, which can range from 20 to 40 students. But public school teachers get a lot of vacation time in the winter and summer. Standard hagwon vacation is three days and a weekend in summer (total of 5 days) and the same in winter.
And yes, there are bad hagwons out there. You might not be paid on time, your apartment might be a shit-hole (my first one was), they will make outrageous demands, want you to work overtime, change your schedule without notice, try to hold your passport (never give it up except for when absolutely necessary, which is sometimes is, but always demand it back!), put restrictions on what you can do when you're off the clock... The list goes on. But these situations are easily avoidable if you do your homework. Rule number one is never trust a recruiter. Rule number two is always always talk to the last teacher that worked there. If the hagwon says they aren't available or they don't have contact information, whatever, pass immediately. The school might be awesome but there's no sense in risking it. Following those two rules will eliminate 80% of your problems. After that it just comes down to the management skills and people skills of your boss and coworkers. But that's no different than in the West.
Living in Korea has been very rewarding and I really like it here. If you are polite and friendly and take the time to learn a few things, Korea will welcome you. From the way you talk, that doesn't seem like it will be a problem for you. I can't offer any advice on Japan because I've only gone there once or twice for a visa run. It was cleaner than Korea though, that much I can say. Korea can be dirty.
Sorry for the length, but if you have any other specific questions fire away. And I hope this was helpful.
-S-
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 28 2011 13:19 SojuSeed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 08:21 dl_usf wrote:
Yeah I have liven in Korea for about 2 years now, a lot of positives and negatives. Learning the language helps. Speaking of which, any of you guys working over here also? I want to meet some people over here who are into SC that are not Korean. Also, if any of you wanna check out the GSL 목동 that'd be awesome.
I'm teaching English down south in Pohang. Where are you? Long post incoming... Okay, OP, first rule when reading/watching those comments on South Korea is that people often only talk about that stuff to blow off steam so it's often very skewed in the negative. Way back in 2004/5 when I was leading up to my first trip to Korea, I had the same reaction. I had read so much stuff on Korea (eslcafe.com is a good resource for general Korean living questions) that I almost changed my mind. You read a lot of negative things (and in your case watch) because how many people really go on and post with regularity about how great their Korean experience is? Not many. So it begins to look more and more bleak. But that's simply not true. I've been here 4 years now (non-consecutive, I went home for awhile and came back) and my experience (as a white person) has been 98% positive. But, let's address some of your specific issues. Foreigner treatment: Almost without exception, you will be treated as you treat others. I've had some black friends who have been on the wrong end of discrimination and that sucks, but I've never seen a black person regret coming here or have such a miserable experience that they wouldn't come back. A good buddy of mine, a black guy, got a job at a uni in Dajeon a few months ago and is having the time of his life. He loves it here. He gets the discrimination from time to time, but he seems to accept it as just part of doing business in Korea. If you show respect then you will be respected in return. And if they see you speaking Korean, they will practically gush on you. I had dinner with a friend of mine last night at a korean meat place and I ordered in Korean, asked questions about the menu in Korean, etc. and the adjummas (korean for older woman/married woman) were so tickled that I spoke Korean and understood them that they took turns cooking all our food as we sat and talked. No one else in the restaurant got that service. And my friend is from Staten Island but is of Indian descent and has very dark skin. If he stays out in the sun too long, he'd pass for black. As for getting attacked, unless your a douche bag, I can say with authority that you will never be attacked. Every so often a korean adjosshi (counter to adjumma, means older Korean man) will get shit-faced and want to get a bug up his ass about some foreigner with a Korean woman but it is extremely rare. I've dated Korean women exclusively since I came here and I've gotten a couple of looks, mostly from the adjosshis, but it's never escalated. I just laugh about it and so does the girl I'm with. I've been in bars where drunk adjosshis get angry that the bartenders (always beautiful girls) because they pay so much attention to foreigners, but the adjosshis are in foreigner bars (not exclusive to foreigners, for sure, but largely frequented by them) and that's their primary business. Foreigner bars, as a rule, don't like Korean men coming in and getting drunk because after a couple of hours, when they're nodding into their beer mug and trying not to sick up, they want to start shit. I've heard stories of adjosshis getting in the face of some poor Korean girl out with her boyfriend or of some foreigner getting yelled at and poked but it's always second/third/fourth hand and I've never known anyone that's experienced it. Even my black friend. He's a straight up player and while he draws more looks than I do if he's out with a girl, he doesn't have that kind of trouble either. There are places that won't deal with foreigners. Some friends and I wanted to go to a Korean night club once and we were turned down because we weren't Korean and we had no Koreans with us. We went back again later with a Korean friend and we got in. If you're a fan of the ladies of the night (read: hookers) some of them won't do business with foreigners either. And, as someone said, where you live makes a big difference. A few bad soldiers can spoil it for everyone else. However, if you don't look like a soldier, sometimes they'll let it slide. Places like Daegu, Soul, Busan or Ulsan, where there are a lot of Army, Navy and Marines running around, you can run in to more resistance because they have developed a bad reputation over the years. Sometimes it's not always deserved, but other times it's very deserved. To sum up, I'd say don't let this bother you. It's not something you'll likely ever experience. Assuming you're not a douche bag, that is. The Language: Should you learn it? Yes. Is it easy? Hell-to-the-frelling-no! Korean is a bitch. Reading it, easy. You can learn to read it in a couple of days and, assuming you practice, you will pick up speed over a few months. Understanding it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort. But the rewards are incalculable. Whether it's more difficult than Japanese or not is irrelevant. If you want to come here, your experience would be vastly improved, the more Korean you speak. The same is true for Japan, I'm sure. That being said, you actually don't have to learn it at all. You'll need some stock phrases of course, but I've known foreigners that have been here for years and never got beyond those stock phrases and they do just fine. I don't think much of them myself, but it's not really my business. Koreans don't think much of them either, but they leave them alone. I have studied off and on in my four years here but it was never a concerted effort. This year I decided to really put the time in and I've improved a lot. I still have miles to go, but every time I recognize a new word, it makes it worth it. I'm at the point now where I'm able to date a girl that speaks almost no English. We can't talk about politics and things like that, and it is a struggle at times, but we are able to communicate. At this point, I speak more Korean than almost any foreigner I have ever met in Korea. And the Koreans that deal with foreigners recognize that and I get a lot of respect for it or, as in the case of the restaurant last night, a little extra service. Last saturday I was at a bar and I was speaking Korean to the bartenders and they went to the other end of the bar to tell the other people how good my Korean was. They love it! And it made me feel good. And I could tell that the bartender was impressed and if I wasn't with my girl, I could have been with her. Koreans are very nationalistic and they're very proud of their country, their language and their heritage. So when you show that you appreciate it, respect it and want to learn more about it, race for most of them almost becomes a non-issue (if it even was before, which it's not for most Koreans.) They want outsiders to love Korea as much as they do and they want to share it with you. The language is the first step. Someone above me mentioned taxis and the difficulty in Korea. That, unfortunately, can be a reality. But if it makes you feel better, it's not only foreigners that that happens to. Koreans have that problem, too! The Korean language does not tolerate accents very well. And Korean accents can be very thick and unintelligible to other Koreans. I was actually just talking to one of my adult students yesterday and she said when her and her husband travel to Seoul, she has to do most of the talking when it's time to conduct some kind of transaction, because the people in Seoul can't understand his thick accent. And he's Korean! As an English speaker, this is hard for us to grasp. Idioms aside, someone from Canada can understand someone from the U.S., South Africa, Australia, etc. and vice versa. And not only that, we can understand non-native speakers from other countries who speak heavily accented English. Koreans have trouble understanding each other even when they're separated by only a few hours drive. The best way to get around this is try to mimic the accent of whatever area you live in. My Korean most likely has the Gyungsan Bukdo accent (where I have lived in my time here) but my Korean teacher speaks with a Seoul accent (a recognized accent, and considered standard) so that's helping. I'm not good enough yet to really distinguish accents though, this is just want I'm told. So there will be bumps on the road. If you're just patient and repeat it a few times, usually the cabby will know what you're talking about. One time I ran in to a group of Marines getting out of a taxi after having circled downtown for 20 minutes, trying to tell the cab driver TGI Fridays when they were only three blocks away. It was funny and sad. The JobThe debate between hagwons vs. public schools is as old as the debate between which country has the hotter girls. Both have their pros and cons. I personally like hagwons because I've found a great boss and I like the small class sizes. My biggest class is 8 students and I have a good relationship with some of them. I've been teaching some of these same kids for 2 years and I get to kind of watch them grow up. You won't get that kind of thing in a public school. Not to mention the class sizes, which can range from 20 to 40 students. But public school teachers get a lot of vacation time in the winter and summer. Standard hagwon vacation is three days and a weekend in summer (total of 5 days) and the same in winter. And yes, there are bad hagwons out there. You might not be paid on time, your apartment might be a shit-hole (my first one was), they will make outrageous demands, want you to work overtime, change your schedule without notice, try to hold your passport (never give it up except for when absolutely necessary, which is sometimes is, but always demand it back!), put restrictions on what you can do when you're off the clock... The list goes on. But these situations are easily avoidable if you do your homework. Rule number one is never trust a recruiter. Rule number two is always always talk to the last teacher that worked there. If the hagwon says they aren't available or they don't have contact information, whatever, pass immediately. The school might be awesome but there's no sense in risking it. Following those two rules will eliminate 80% of your problems. After that it just comes down to the management skills and people skills of your boss and coworkers. But that's no different than in the West. Living in Korea has been very rewarding and I really like it here. If you are polite and friendly and take the time to learn a few things, Korea will welcome you. From the way you talk, that doesn't seem like it will be a problem for you. I can't offer any advice on Japan because I've only gone there once or twice for a visa run. It was cleaner than Korea though, that much I can say. Korea can be dirty. Sorry for the length, but if you have any other specific questions fire away. And I hope this was helpful. -S-
Holy sh*t, were you helpful. You just heavily impacted my decision and probably changed my mind a little bit. Thank you so much! (As well as everyone else who commented!)  I honestly don't think any other forum members would put this much time, though, and effort into these comments. o_o Really.
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On May 28 2011 13:53 xVoiid wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 28 2011 13:19 SojuSeed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2011 08:21 dl_usf wrote:
Yeah I have liven in Korea for about 2 years now, a lot of positives and negatives. Learning the language helps. Speaking of which, any of you guys working over here also? I want to meet some people over here who are into SC that are not Korean. Also, if any of you wanna check out the GSL 목동 that'd be awesome.
I'm teaching English down south in Pohang. Where are you? Long post incoming... Okay, OP, first rule when reading/watching those comments on South Korea is that people often only talk about that stuff to blow off steam so it's often very skewed in the negative. Way back in 2004/5 when I was leading up to my first trip to Korea, I had the same reaction. I had read so much stuff on Korea (eslcafe.com is a good resource for general Korean living questions) that I almost changed my mind. You read a lot of negative things (and in your case watch) because how many people really go on and post with regularity about how great their Korean experience is? Not many. So it begins to look more and more bleak. But that's simply not true. I've been here 4 years now (non-consecutive, I went home for awhile and came back) and my experience (as a white person) has been 98% positive. But, let's address some of your specific issues. Foreigner treatment: Almost without exception, you will be treated as you treat others. I've had some black friends who have been on the wrong end of discrimination and that sucks, but I've never seen a black person regret coming here or have such a miserable experience that they wouldn't come back. A good buddy of mine, a black guy, got a job at a uni in Dajeon a few months ago and is having the time of his life. He loves it here. He gets the discrimination from time to time, but he seems to accept it as just part of doing business in Korea. If you show respect then you will be respected in return. And if they see you speaking Korean, they will practically gush on you. I had dinner with a friend of mine last night at a korean meat place and I ordered in Korean, asked questions about the menu in Korean, etc. and the adjummas (korean for older woman/married woman) were so tickled that I spoke Korean and understood them that they took turns cooking all our food as we sat and talked. No one else in the restaurant got that service. And my friend is from Staten Island but is of Indian descent and has very dark skin. If he stays out in the sun too long, he'd pass for black. As for getting attacked, unless your a douche bag, I can say with authority that you will never be attacked. Every so often a korean adjosshi (counter to adjumma, means older Korean man) will get shit-faced and want to get a bug up his ass about some foreigner with a Korean woman but it is extremely rare. I've dated Korean women exclusively since I came here and I've gotten a couple of looks, mostly from the adjosshis, but it's never escalated. I just laugh about it and so does the girl I'm with. I've been in bars where drunk adjosshis get angry that the bartenders (always beautiful girls) because they pay so much attention to foreigners, but the adjosshis are in foreigner bars (not exclusive to foreigners, for sure, but largely frequented by them) and that's their primary business. Foreigner bars, as a rule, don't like Korean men coming in and getting drunk because after a couple of hours, when they're nodding into their beer mug and trying not to sick up, they want to start shit. I've heard stories of adjosshis getting in the face of some poor Korean girl out with her boyfriend or of some foreigner getting yelled at and poked but it's always second/third/fourth hand and I've never known anyone that's experienced it. Even my black friend. He's a straight up player and while he draws more looks than I do if he's out with a girl, he doesn't have that kind of trouble either. There are places that won't deal with foreigners. Some friends and I wanted to go to a Korean night club once and we were turned down because we weren't Korean and we had no Koreans with us. We went back again later with a Korean friend and we got in. If you're a fan of the ladies of the night (read: hookers) some of them won't do business with foreigners either. And, as someone said, where you live makes a big difference. A few bad soldiers can spoil it for everyone else. However, if you don't look like a soldier, sometimes they'll let it slide. Places like Daegu, Soul, Busan or Ulsan, where there are a lot of Army, Navy and Marines running around, you can run in to more resistance because they have developed a bad reputation over the years. Sometimes it's not always deserved, but other times it's very deserved. To sum up, I'd say don't let this bother you. It's not something you'll likely ever experience. Assuming you're not a douche bag, that is. The Language: Should you learn it? Yes. Is it easy? Hell-to-the-frelling-no! Korean is a bitch. Reading it, easy. You can learn to read it in a couple of days and, assuming you practice, you will pick up speed over a few months. Understanding it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort. But the rewards are incalculable. Whether it's more difficult than Japanese or not is irrelevant. If you want to come here, your experience would be vastly improved, the more Korean you speak. The same is true for Japan, I'm sure. That being said, you actually don't have to learn it at all. You'll need some stock phrases of course, but I've known foreigners that have been here for years and never got beyond those stock phrases and they do just fine. I don't think much of them myself, but it's not really my business. Koreans don't think much of them either, but they leave them alone. I have studied off and on in my four years here but it was never a concerted effort. This year I decided to really put the time in and I've improved a lot. I still have miles to go, but every time I recognize a new word, it makes it worth it. I'm at the point now where I'm able to date a girl that speaks almost no English. We can't talk about politics and things like that, and it is a struggle at times, but we are able to communicate. At this point, I speak more Korean than almost any foreigner I have ever met in Korea. And the Koreans that deal with foreigners recognize that and I get a lot of respect for it or, as in the case of the restaurant last night, a little extra service. Last saturday I was at a bar and I was speaking Korean to the bartenders and they went to the other end of the bar to tell the other people how good my Korean was. They love it! And it made me feel good. And I could tell that the bartender was impressed and if I wasn't with my girl, I could have been with her. Koreans are very nationalistic and they're very proud of their country, their language and their heritage. So when you show that you appreciate it, respect it and want to learn more about it, race for most of them almost becomes a non-issue (if it even was before, which it's not for most Koreans.) They want outsiders to love Korea as much as they do and they want to share it with you. The language is the first step. Someone above me mentioned taxis and the difficulty in Korea. That, unfortunately, can be a reality. But if it makes you feel better, it's not only foreigners that that happens to. Koreans have that problem, too! The Korean language does not tolerate accents very well. And Korean accents can be very thick and unintelligible to other Koreans. I was actually just talking to one of my adult students yesterday and she said when her and her husband travel to Seoul, she has to do most of the talking when it's time to conduct some kind of transaction, because the people in Seoul can't understand his thick accent. And he's Korean! As an English speaker, this is hard for us to grasp. Idioms aside, someone from Canada can understand someone from the U.S., South Africa, Australia, etc. and vice versa. And not only that, we can understand non-native speakers from other countries who speak heavily accented English. Koreans have trouble understanding each other even when they're separated by only a few hours drive. The best way to get around this is try to mimic the accent of whatever area you live in. My Korean most likely has the Gyungsan Bukdo accent (where I have lived in my time here) but my Korean teacher speaks with a Seoul accent (a recognized accent, and considered standard) so that's helping. I'm not good enough yet to really distinguish accents though, this is just want I'm told. So there will be bumps on the road. If you're just patient and repeat it a few times, usually the cabby will know what you're talking about. One time I ran in to a group of Marines getting out of a taxi after having circled downtown for 20 minutes, trying to tell the cab driver TGI Fridays when they were only three blocks away. It was funny and sad. The JobThe debate between hagwons vs. public schools is as old as the debate between which country has the hotter girls. Both have their pros and cons. I personally like hagwons because I've found a great boss and I like the small class sizes. My biggest class is 8 students and I have a good relationship with some of them. I've been teaching some of these same kids for 2 years and I get to kind of watch them grow up. You won't get that kind of thing in a public school. Not to mention the class sizes, which can range from 20 to 40 students. But public school teachers get a lot of vacation time in the winter and summer. Standard hagwon vacation is three days and a weekend in summer (total of 5 days) and the same in winter. And yes, there are bad hagwons out there. You might not be paid on time, your apartment might be a shit-hole (my first one was), they will make outrageous demands, want you to work overtime, change your schedule without notice, try to hold your passport (never give it up except for when absolutely necessary, which is sometimes is, but always demand it back!), put restrictions on what you can do when you're off the clock... The list goes on. But these situations are easily avoidable if you do your homework. Rule number one is never trust a recruiter. Rule number two is always always talk to the last teacher that worked there. If the hagwon says they aren't available or they don't have contact information, whatever, pass immediately. The school might be awesome but there's no sense in risking it. Following those two rules will eliminate 80% of your problems. After that it just comes down to the management skills and people skills of your boss and coworkers. But that's no different than in the West. Living in Korea has been very rewarding and I really like it here. If you are polite and friendly and take the time to learn a few things, Korea will welcome you. From the way you talk, that doesn't seem like it will be a problem for you. I can't offer any advice on Japan because I've only gone there once or twice for a visa run. It was cleaner than Korea though, that much I can say. Korea can be dirty. Sorry for the length, but if you have any other specific questions fire away. And I hope this was helpful. -S- Holy sh*t, were you helpful. You just heavily impacted my decision and probably changed my mind a little bit. Thank you so much! (As well as everyone else who commented!) I honestly don't think any other forum members would put this much time, though, and effort into these comments. o_o Really.
I'm glad your happy. Because of this I didn't have time to get in a little porn before I head out to teach a private lesson. 
It's all good though, seeing the girlfriend tonight. As I said, let me know if you have any other questions. I've been here awhile so I know the lay of the land pretty well and have a pretty good bead on things.
-S-
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SojuSeed is spot on.
Anyways im out in 인천, not very close to you man ㅠㅠ
Send me your SC2 info would be fun to play sometime
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On May 28 2011 16:52 dl_usf wrote:
SojuSeed is spot on.
Anyways im out in 인천, not very close to you man ㅠㅠ
Send me your SC2 info would be fun to play sometime
SojuSeed.513
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EPT
