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On March 12 2011 05:16 Jermstuddog wrote:
For sure all races have major losses. Obviously, the OP is contrived to make Zerg look like they're miles behind when, honestly, everybody lost something compared to BW.
I do feel that Zerg did lose more though, pretty much everything they have got weaker across the board. The ONLY solid up-trade Zerg got was the Queen.
Everything else has either seen a reduction in effectiveness or an increase in cost. Or in the case of one unnamed unit, both.
Oh wells. Guess we'll have to wait till HotS to see what unit they decide to make for us.
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T got changed from a 200/200 blob race to a multitasking rootin' tootin dropfest race, I couldnt be happier.
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On March 12 2011 05:14 Bill Murray wrote:
at least banelings dont have to be burrowed to kill
but that can still do that
i always found lurkers to be gimmicky and mainly useless
I also disagree when you said mutas are the carryover
micro in sc1 vs micro in sc2.... hmmm i wonder
wtf mate! Lurkers were a staple of zerg play in broodwar. No way were they gimmicky and mainly useless! I do really miss them in sc2. zerg in bw just had a better feeling than playing zerg in sc2 imo 
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On March 12 2011 04:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
Defiler vs infestor is actually somewhat fair. I'd take the defiler over the infestor, though, to be completely honest.
EDIT: A lot of these arguments can be made for Protoss too (and, to a lesser extent, Terran. Terran air and infantry is better but mech is worse)
The reaver>colossus, storm got nerfed, carriers are useless, no arbiters, speed zeals are gone, stalkers are comparatively weaker than dragoons, warp prisms are weaker, DTs more expensive, etc. etc.
Defilers aren't infestors though. Defilers are gone. Infestors are queens.
Carriers would probably be good if mech TvP happened more regularly. Jinro said MC's carrier response from GSL January worked in practice, at least.
Honestly overall I don't think there's that much of a reason to go back to the BW analogues to find problems with zerg units. The zerg units are just bad. They're all kind of shitty for one reason or another and you can tell just by looking at how they work in SC2.
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On March 12 2011 05:35 Turgid wrote:
Honestly overall I don't think there's that much of a reason to go back to the BW analogues to find problems with zerg units. The zerg units are just bad. They're all kind of shitty for one reason or another and you can tell just by looking at how they work in SC2.
I would agree with this for the most part. Looking at Zerg in SC2 you can see that something is wrong, you don't need to compare to BW to see that.
But when you do... it is just like pulling up a magnifying glass, showing you all the glaring flaws in glorious detail.
Zerg wasn't always this way... In past games, their units were actually good.
Looking at things this way actually makes me want to give every Zerg player out there who wins anything a super-huge kudos for just making things work...
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another thread comparing bw to sc2?
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On March 12 2011 05:07 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 05:05 LoLAdriankat wrote:Humans and Protoss evolve, Zerg devolves.  I don't know. Scivessels and goliaths were a pretty big loss for T, and arbiters/goons/reavers were pretty damn pimp.
But you still got some decent units out of it. The Raven is pretty damn sweet as a replacement for a Scivessel and the Viking is a nice Goliath/Valkyrie replacement.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
i strongly agree with everything, though i do like sc2 mutas. maybe even more than the bw muta, but still - most changes to zerg from bw leave me wondering what kerrigan has been doing all this time.
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On March 12 2011 05:19 Catch]22 wrote:
T got changed from a 200/200 blob race to a multitasking rootin' tootin dropfest race, I couldnt be happier.
oO
Nice terran hate, but it looks like you've never watched a TvZ in BW, and probably neither a TvT between good players. And that you have a distorted vision of TvP... Though on the design plan, terran is the race that got out the best I feel.
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I'll do protoss version:
Arbiters -> Mothership
The only lore they could make up for this to make sense is that the Mothership is old technology that wasn't meant for combat lol ( im serious). Does the same as an arbiter but is far far slower, costs more, and you can only have 1! Vortex isn't nearly as good as stasis even though it fills the same roll (archon toilet removed). It breaks my heart to have a hero unit in sc2
Reavers -> Collosus
One is fun to use, and one is not. Collosus solely defines Protoss because you would be a fool not to go it every game of every matchup ( unless u like to 4gate).
corsair -> Phoenix
In Soviet Russia, units micro for you. AGAIN another unit that has the same role and almost the same abilities but just worse and less interesting.
Carrier -> Sc2 Carrier
Double the damage, over 9000 times as boring without micro.
Voidray -> Was an interesting unit until it got changed to work well with a death ball instead of using tactics.
The biggest one of all that breaks my heart every time i scout the terran early.
Probuu AKA meow -> Sc2 probe
You gotta wait for your shields to recharge and no ranged attack. It even loses to a drone in a fight. No manner pylon and scvs hide in buildings. How else am I suppose to win by the 4 minute mark?!?
I am too sad to finish TT
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On March 12 2011 06:30 MuTT wrote:
corsair -> Phoenix
In Soviet Russia, units micro for you.
Best part of the whole post IMO.
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so, they actually changed stuff? i was expecting sc1 with better graphics DUUUH
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On March 12 2011 06:51 qwaykee wrote:
so, they actually changed stuff? i was expecting sc1 with better graphics DUUUH
Posts like this one are so clever...
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Relax people. I think the OP is just comparing the actual look/power of zerg units, not comparing BW to SC2 as games themselves. SC2-strict fanboys are even worse than BW fanboys when it comes to defending their game imo :S
I do agree with the op though, zerg does need some diversity, or at least giving some zerg units more creativity/interesting factor. Perhaps another unit or some tech tree changes.
edit:
On March 12 2011 05:14 Bill Murray wrote:
at least banelings dont have to be burrowed to kill
but that can still do that
i always found lurkers to be gimmicky and mainly useless
I also disagree when you said mutas are the carryover
micro in sc1 vs micro in sc2.... hmmm i wonder
I was surprised to see this view based on your post-count
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On March 12 2011 06:51 qwaykee wrote:
so, they actually changed stuff? i was expecting sc1 with better graphics DUUUH
A lot of us would have enjoyed that a lot. Change for the sake of change without improvement is useless. The old units units + micro tricks is what made BW a great game. A collosus will never give the same oooh as a reaver firing a shot. The swarmness of zerg with plague and dark swarm will never be lived up to by the infester poop they throw on the enemy. No more excitement of some idiot walking into a lot of spider mines. These days its just blob against blob.
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On March 12 2011 07:03 Marradron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 06:51 qwaykee wrote:
so, they actually changed stuff? i was expecting sc1 with better graphics DUUUH A lot of us would have enjoyed that a lot. Change for the sake of change without improvement is useless. The old units units + micro tricks is what made BW a great game. A collosus will never give the same oooh as a reaver firing a shot. The swarmness of zerg with plague and dark swarm will never be lived up to by the infester poop they throw on the enemy. No more excitement of some idiot walking into a lot of spider mines. These days its just blob against blob.
Yeah, i agree with both what you say and the OP. It's just the seriousness of some of the posters i was "referring" to. I miss stuff from BW too, but it's a new game and i enjoy it.
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On March 12 2011 05:07 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 05:05 LoLAdriankat wrote:Humans and Protoss evolve, Zerg devolves. I don't know. Scivessels and goliaths were a pretty big loss for T, and arbiters/goons/reavers were pretty damn pimp.
goons got replaced by a unit that is actually capable of walking in a straight line
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Lol I had never seen that comic before, totally apt to this thread.
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Corrupter equivalent is the devourer. They basically deleted a zerg flyer (scourge) and bettered the terran dropship ><. Can you imagine zerg with scourge lol. Hard counter colossus void ray with em.
Baneling is awesome. It's an infested terran at tier 1!
Hydralisks make me want to cry. They were my favorite unit since I first started brood war(5hatch hydra was the best strategy ever). Now they spit tic tacs
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7469/69780026.jpg)
