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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
On January 26 2011 00:53 POiNTx wrote: Portal 2 will actually feature cross console play. Its only in coop mode tough so it doesn`t really matter who is the best player. Coop mode between these platforms seem to be an unnecessary health risk for the console users. | ||
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DND_Enkil
Sweden598 Posts
On January 26 2011 00:47 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: I personally don't think this thread needed a bump just for a long-ass article explaining in so many words the specific adjustments attempted in order to balance consoleVSpc in a game that most of us won't have played. I mean the whole thread was both console + PC gamers going "yeah it's obvious PC offers more precise control" and some console gamers getting defensive and saying "console still has its merits what with playing with people in the same room and being social n shit" and then hardcore and/or antisocial PC gamers attempting to shit on them for being "casuals" and then a bunch of other console vs PC arguments. What are we gaining out of this, exactly? I found the link really interesting and going in on detail, from a developers point of wiev, what changes and difficulties they encountered when porting from console to PC. Long ass articles win everyday against short assed opinions.... Not that you had one but pretty good bump for me at least  | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
Maybe its something about aroundmidnight that makes it so I just can't walk away from threads ;_; ugh. | ||
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ishboh
United States954 Posts
really, the keyboard has like 50 buttons, how would it NOT be easier to play a game with more buttons (simpler games can still use 4 or less buttons on the keyboard anyway) | ||
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Eluadyl
Turkey364 Posts
The only problem started when they started to make the same game for all platforms and got worse with cross platform play. It doesn't only dumb down PC games, it takes away from the consoles to imho. A console FPS could have a whole bunch of acrobatics/movement gimmicks if it did not need to be ported to PC also. Doing those stunts on keyboard+mouse is sluggish at best. They need to get rid of cross platform play except fighting or mainstream sports games I think. | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
On January 26 2011 00:24 Boblion wrote: So now they are giving handicaps to PC gamers because they would rape the console guys otherwise. That's like cutting one leg to Usain Bolt to make him run with crippled guys. Sad times. What about giving a mouse and a keyboard to those lazy bums ? Oh and tell them to not play on a couch too. When i study or play a game i'm at my desk not on a couch. Couch is for TV not for playing competitive games. Is that too hard to understand ? FPS and RTS should be banned on console. I mean they are degenerating the genres and now pretty much all the new AAA games will be bastardized ( multi-platform ) thanks to console gamers who want to play on a couch. Just wanted to clarify that they aren't handicapping the PC gamers, b/c PC gamers are not playing against the console gamers. These are the changes being made to balance PC gamers against other PC gamers so that the classes are equal. | ||
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RumTalk
Jamaica135 Posts
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lololol
5198 Posts
On January 26 2011 01:24 rastaban wrote: Just wanted to clarify that they aren't handicapping the PC gamers, b/c PC gamers are not playing against the console gamers. These are the changes being made to balance PC gamers against other PC gamers so that the classes are equal. Lots of people are replying to the OP without reading the new posts and that's why they are posting about cross-platform play. | ||
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
90% of the pc gamers are just as terrible as 90% of the console gamers, but most terrible pc gamers consider themselves good because they play on the pc. as for cross platform, I think the only game that had this was shadowrun where console gamers dominated in it's short life span. Unfortunately that game is a poor example since it died off pretty quickly and most pc gamers didn't hear of it/thought it looked dumb. Plus you couldn't even take advantage of having more buttons on a keyboard, so it was kind of whatever. (I had the pc version myself, but I used my controller.) edit: as for mouse and keyboard vs controller... people like what they are the most accustomed with. This is pretty straight forward. I like my controller for shooters. It feels right to me. The keyboard feels like a joke to use. In terms of raw accuracy the mouse is obviously better since you can't hope to be as good with a controller, but that's counter acted by ever so slight aim magnetism. When pc gamers hear about aim magnetism they're like, LOLNOSKILLCONSOLEGAMERS or something of the sort... but in reality the skill gap in just the aiming department of games like halo is pretty gigantic. (enough so, that no pc only gamer is going to jump on halo and manage to get a single kill on me.) | ||
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aike
United States1629 Posts
On July 24 2010 03:50 Zapperkhan wrote: Sounds pretty bullshit that they researched this, since they have games that are live now that do cross platform play. Mainly being Shadowrun. Sounds ridiculous that this was semi recent. I think this article is talking about a real shooter game. Not something IGN describes like this... "Since this is a cross-platform game, the shooting is wildly imprecise when compared to games like Counter-Strike. If it were a matter of pinpoint reticule positioning, the PC gamers would undoubtedly dominate. As it's set up, the Xbox 360 gamers get an abundance of aim assists and sticky targeting and the weapons aren't particularly accurate. Unless you're using a sniper rifle, it seems somewhat random if your shots hit someone in the head, arm, or miss altogether, even with Smartlink enabling reticule tracking on PC. Unlike the generally well-balanced magic and tech abilities, the inaccuracies of the weapons make this aspect of your offensive arsenal less enjoyable. Weapon controls have been diluted to the point where PC and X360 gamers are on relatively the same footing, making the whole cross-platform competition more of a non-issue. " | ||
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CmdrMoozy
United States9 Posts
On July 24 2010 04:06 barbsq wrote: its soo easy to code for unix (for mac and linux), then convert to windows based systems, versus coding for windows then converting to unix. What makes you say that? IMO, this should be restated as "it's so easy to port code if you write standards-compliant code / use cross-platform libraries in the first place." What people really need to do is start using libraries that are cross-platform like OpenGL instead of DirectX or Qt instead of Cocoa/Win32/etc. On July 24 2010 04:12 Ace wrote: You are kidding yourself if you think it's "easier to code for the PC than for console". It's not that simple because there are numerous things to take into account for both machines. At the end of the day you'd sound a bit more believable if you knew that a console is literally just a dedicated graphics hog of a computer. It's very much true that it's easier to code for the PC than the console. Consoles often have different architectures than PC's (pretty much every console other than the XBox uses a non-x86 CPU), and consoles often don't have the same libraries/API's available due to the fact that they aren't actually running Windows itself. So basically, when you want to write for a brand new console, you basically have to learn to code for a brand new platform. Then, to port it back to the PC (or even to another console), you have to modify ALL of that platform-specific code you had to use for your original platform. And the best part? A few years later, the next generation of consoles will be released, and you'll have to learn yet ANOTHER new platform. | ||
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Frigo
Hungary1023 Posts
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
It's not that one control scheme is better than the other. Games need to be designed with what control schemes will be used. For example, racing games are TERRIBLE on the PC because a mouse and keyboard has 0 analog buttons for gas/brake or even turning. To rememdy this you either buy a driving kit or a Xbox Windows controller. On January 26 2011 01:59 CmdrMoozy wrote: What makes you say that? IMO, this should be restated as "it's so easy to port code if you write standards-compliant code / use cross-platform libraries in the first place." What people really need to do is start using libraries that are cross-platform like OpenGL instead of DirectX or Qt instead of Cocoa/Win32/etc. It's very much true that it's easier to code for the PC than the console. Consoles often have different architectures than PC's (pretty much every console other than the XBox uses a non-x86 CPU), and consoles often don't have the same libraries/API's available due to the fact that they aren't actually running Windows itself. So basically, when you want to write for a brand new console, you basically have to learn to code for a brand new platform. Then, to port it back to the PC (or even to another console), you have to modify ALL of that platform-specific code you had to use for your original platform. And the best part? A few years later, the next generation of consoles will be released, and you'll have to learn yet ANOTHER new platform. Yeah, it's "harder" in that you have to retrain your staff every 5 years or so. Language and API/libraries are a non-issue unless it's so wildly different to be completely asanine (Apple). Gabe Newell said the PS3 "was a waste of time" likely referring to the difference in developing for it compared to PC. XBox games are done in C#, a PC language that's very Java like, which is likely why you see so many XBox/PC ports. | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On January 26 2011 01:37 Let it Raine wrote: as for cross platform, I think the only game that had this was shadowrun where console gamers dominated in it's short life span. Unfortunately that game is a poor example since it died off pretty quickly and most pc gamers didn't hear of it/thought it looked dumb. Plus you couldn't even take advantage of having more buttons on a keyboard, so it was kind of whatever. (I had the pc version myself, but I used my controller.) You mean the game which had aimbots for consoles? And different recoil patterns for pc/console versions (PC sprayed more). Not to mention unaccurate weapons/hitboxes in the first place? I wont even mention the artificial (or just badly coded) input lag, where the character continued to move a bit after releasing the key (though I think console players had the same problem). On January 26 2011 01:37 Let it Raine wrote: people like what they are the most accustomed with. This is pretty straight forward. I like my controller for shooters. It feels right to me. The keyboard feels like a joke to use. In terms of raw accuracy the mouse is obviously better since you can't hope to be as good with a controller, but that's counter acted by ever so slight aim magnetism. When pc gamers hear about aim magnetism they're like, LOLNOSKILLCONSOLEGAMERS or something of the sort... but in reality the skill gap in just the aiming department of games like halo is pretty gigantic. (enough so, that no pc only gamer is going to jump on halo and manage to get a single kill on me.) No one here is saying that it takes no skill to be great in a console shooter. But you're incapable of doing flick-shots which would put you behind in a game where you play with a controller and your opponent plays with keyboard & mouse (of course a good console player would beat a pc gamer noob). I also think (dont know, your opinion would be nice) just looking at console play (ignoring PC) that the aimbot is bad for competetive play at the top level. If one player would be as good as the aimbot with his controller he wouldnt need it. But the aimbot being present enables his opponent to do stuff which they normally would not be able to do. So his "skill" to do some insane shots doesnt give him any advantages. Which imho is just bad for competition. On January 26 2011 01:59 CmdrMoozy wrote: It's very much true that it's easier to code for the PC than the console. Consoles often have different architectures than PC's (pretty much every console other than the XBox uses a non-x86 CPU), and consoles often don't have the same libraries/API's available due to the fact that they aren't actually running Windows itself. So basically, when you want to write for a brand new console, you basically have to learn to code for a brand new platform. Then, to port it back to the PC (or even to another console), you have to modify ALL of that platform-specific code you had to use for your original platform. And the best part? A few years later, the next generation of consoles will be released, and you'll have to learn yet ANOTHER new platform. To quote John Carmack: "We're having to work twice as hard on the PS3 to bring it up to spec but in the end it's going to be 60fps and it's going to wind up looking excatly as on the 360." With the similiar architecture of PC and XBox I think it's pretty safe to assume that it's easier to code on PC compared to "Consoles" (non Xbox). | ||
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Prinny-tai
United States71 Posts
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2011/1/24/ A tl;dr of it is(but you should read it), one of the biggest differences between PC and console design of shooters is the time it takes to aim, for a console you can't possibly lower it to zero, but on a PC it can be lowered to nearly 0 through sheer skill, so consoles implement systems that help reduce the time, aim assist and the like. On the console version of MNC, the sniper had 10 shots, but on the PC it has 4. This forces the sniper to reload more since his shots are going to be more accurate(there is also talk of making the PC sniper bolt action instead of semi-auto, since there is no kickback on it). Tanks charge ability is a 1 hit kill more or less in console MNC, this is OP on the PC because players can steer the charge around corners and through multiple players, a PC gamer can nail 3 or 4 kills with it at high damage, so it had to be nerfed. Turrets could never set up on PCs b/c players can kill them within the small window before they deploy, so they needed more hp. | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On January 26 2011 00:51 StayPhrosty wrote: i enjoy many console games, there have been many fantastic ones over the past few years. still, the only reason i do is because greedy videogame companies make more money by selling you an overpriced, under-powered, DRM-locked computer for your tv. there is no reason that they couldn't have designed AC: Brotherhood with the PC instead of the PS3 in mind, but they didn't because they know the ps3 will net them more cash. i do not lock myself, but i pity those who think that handicapping themselves is a preferable alternative. Did you really just say that? PC gaming costs relatively far more. And for the most part have caught up in the graphics department. Console machines are sold at a loss. | ||
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Ation
Finland102 Posts
Not so hard to find an intense and exceptionally skilltastic shooting game on PC  | ||
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Zombo Joe
Canada850 Posts
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On January 26 2011 03:30 Zombo Joe wrote: PC gaming being more expensive is a misconception. Now days you can build a mid-range custom computer for roughly the same price as an Xbox 360. Which will likely run better on the Xbox. Show me a PC build that is <= $200 that can run MW2 in 1080. | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
On January 26 2011 03:33 Ownos wrote: Which will likely run better on the Xbox. Show me a PC build that is <= $200 that can run MW2 in 1080. Show me a console that prefers gameplay over graphics. You can run MW2 on a PC just fine, its doesn't have to be in 1080p. Most pro pc gamers play with the settings as low as possible so their screen isn't cluttered by stuff that has no impact on gameplay. on xbox its like "ooh look at the lovely flowers everywhere" on PC its "show me who to shoot" Pc games are built with gameplay in mind, they add the nice graphics for those who can afford the gfx cards to use them, but they aren't important to the game | ||
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