EPT
Originally written and edited by Lee Sora
In the spirit of the Fantasy interview, here's another one of the Daily E-Sports relay interviews. This one is older, from June 15th, and features fan favourite Savior. It is part of a series on five Zerg players: JulyZerg, Savior, Jaedong, Yarnc, and Luxury. The format is not standard, edited to be different from a typical Q&A style.
Meticulously proofread and edited by FrozenArbiter.
It's impossible to talk about Zerg as a race without mentioning Savior - his contributions to Zerg play are simply too great. He changed the paradigms of ZvT and ZvP, becoming famous as a perfect "management style" zerg. (Translator's note: "Management" is a rough translation of a term widely used in Korea to describe a style of play. It is more defensive than aggressive, more passive than active, more strategic than tactical. At its best, it means a very fluid and flexible style.)
What does Zerg mean to Savior?
Savior: Zerg is more difficult than the other races. Overall management and unit control is very difficult. Turning your larva into the wrong units can give you an instant disadvantage. You have to be more careful than with the other races.
I think good micro is a given these days, and that management ability is what swings games.
The rediscovery of mutalisks (through stacking) was very nice when it was new. But Terran and Protoss have caught up to Zerg's mutalisk micro, and I think they are on even footing now.
In one of our previous interviews with Leta and UpMagic, they mentioned that "changing the paradigm of a race is by far the most important thing," emphasizing the need to be on the frontier of strategizing. Savior agreed with this point of view, saying "You can't emphasize enough how much you need to be a paradigm shifter."
Savior: When I think about the days I crushed Terran with my three hatchery builds, I realize how important it was to be the first to change the paradigm of a matchup. When someone succesfully develops a good strategy/paradigm for a matchup, it takes much longer than one would think for other players to understand it, and remake it within their own framework.
Being the first to develop and use a strategy is to be several steps ahead of the competition. The present style of ZvP of using building five hatcheries, using scourge to counter corsairs, and then mass producing drones is the same kind of play I used when I was called "The Protoss Catastrophe."
You could understand Bisu's corsair and dark templar strategy in the same way. The reason he's been able to stay at the top so long is because he was a paradigm changer for Protoss. Other players try to imitate his play, but they simply can't copy his unique intuition and know-how.
The better player wins. If you're not the best at micro, management, multi-tasking, mini-map reactions, and so many other things, then you can't become a Bonjwa in this day and age.
Many people have blamed the recent faltering of older players, including Savior, on their inability to adjust to recent trends. Savior says this is simply not true. According to him "If you're watching recent games and trying to practice according to them, and yet cannot follow the new trends, that just says you're lazy."
As a long time progamer, and one of the very best at that, Savior had confident answers to even difficult questions. On the topic of falling performance of older progamers, he also said "You end up having to deal with things outside of gaming, and your hands just don't move like they used to."
What does he think of his own slump as of late? He has been doing well during practice, but has been unable to show his skill during televised games. Many fans have been wondering about the reason behind this.
Savior: I wouldn't be this frustrated if I was doing poorly in practice, too. I don't know the reason myself right now. True, the environment at the practice room and on TV are different. But every player faces that difference, so I don't have any excuse for that. But in any case, I think comparing oneself to other players and thinking "why can't I play as well on stage?" is just a way to ruin your confidence.
There's no easy answer. I just have to do better.
Honestly, I have a lot of things on my mind lately. I have some concerns, and some things that I have to give some careful thought. I haven't cleared everything up yet, but I think I'll be able to come to a conclusion on my dilemmas soon.
These complicated thoughts have left me mentally unstable as of late. I think this is a very bad period for me. Not just because I haven't been doing well at Starcraft. I'll tell you when I'm done resolving them. I hope that my fans won't jump to any conclusions, and I ask them to believe in me and be patient.
Troubled by so many things, Savior had an expression of determination. Having started his career at an early age, and having been active for so long now, it seemed natural that Savior would have more things to worry about than teenage players who have the luxury of thinking only about Starcraft. Perhaps that affected his decision to cut his hair short?
Said Savior "I debated whether to cut my hair or not. It was summer anyway, and I thought cutting my hair would help me work through my problems. It's not like it was because of some severe distress (laughs)."
People tend to divide Zerg into an aggresive style, including Yellow, JulyZerg, and Jaedong, and into Management style Zerg, beginning with Chojja and perfected by Savior. Aggressive zergs seem to be doing better at present, what does Savior think of this?
Savior: Both styles have their advantages and disadvantages. The reason people think aggressive style is so good these days is because Jaedong is doing so well. When I was doing well, they were saying management style was better.
The advantage aggressive zergs have is that they hold the initiative, and they can define the terms of the game up to a point. However, if their attacks are stopped without any gain, they will lose.
Management style zerg requires much more finesse in its play. You have to defend very well. Zerg isn't naturally a good race for defense, which is what makes it so difficult. Also, multi-tasking is extremely important. In general, if you don't excel at everything, you can't do well using management style zerg. But if you can play management style zerg perfectly, then you can play with an aura of invincibility, and can make your opponents feel pressure from your mere presense.
In our interview with TheMarine, we asked him about "TaekBaeng-RiSsang" (refers to Stork-Bisu // Jaedong-Flash). He expressed his concerns over zergs lack of stability, and said "Even when Jaedong plays against terran, he doesn't have that invincible feeling where you know he won't lose." According to TheMarine, Zerg would always be imperfect because of Terran.
He also said "That's why Savior's Bonjwa era was so impressive, because he would just beat terrans to death," and "to be invincible vs terran, you must play management style zerg." What is Savior's opinion?
Savior: It's very hard to have an aura of invincibility against Terran. If you play management style perfectly, it's possible.
Jaedong is extremely good at ZvT, but the reasons thoughts of "He could still lose" linger in your mind is probably because he is so aggressive. It's not just the announcers, but the players that think as they watch his games 'If terran could just stop this one attack, then he'll have the advantage.' If that's true, then Terrans should just focus on finding out how to stop those attacks, and eventually there will be a solution.
Management style zergs defend against all of Terran's attacks, and then finish the game through defiler use later, which makes them feel more stable. So I think aggressive zergs can't avoid looking risky against terran.
When we asked Savior what his dreams are, he gave us a shocking response. His goal itself seemed fairly obvious, but it was what he said afterwards that surprised us.
Savior: Right now, the thing I want the most is to win the Proleague under the CJ Entus name. Oddly enough, during the period that I was responsible for the team's performance, we could never win the Proleague trophy. It's still something I regret a lot.
On the other hand, if I had won the Proleague during the "Bonjwa" phase of my career, I might have been retired by now. I might have thought that I had achieved everything I could as a progamer, and made a rash decision. The reason I'm still playing now is because I hadn't won the Proleague.
So right now, I want to win at Gwanganri (the beach in Busan that is the location of the Proleague finals). Not somewhere else, it must be at Gwanganri. Every progamer wants to step on the stage at Gwanganri.
This season is so important to me for that reason. I truly want to win at the stage at Gwanganri.
We were shocked to hear the word 'retirement' come from Savior's mouth. Coach ForU, who was sitting next to us, was also very surprised. Looking around and seeing our reactions, Savior gave us an embarrassed laugh saying "It was just a thought I had, don't get the wrong idea," and laughed again.
Proleague asides, Savior also told us of his desire to win WCG. During the 2007 tournament, Savior suffered a 1-2 defeat at the hands of the Chinese player PJ, which was a shock to Korean fans. How did he feel then?
Savior: It was the first time in my life I had ever thought "I wish this was all just a bad dream." Even when I lost other important games, finals matches, or even after my 0-3 loss to Bisu, I had never felt that terrible.
I fell into a state of panic after the losses, and I couldn't do anything. I was so exhausted, and just wished I could get up from this dream. Thinking about it now, it still makes me feel faint.
I prepared far too little, and underestimated my opponent, which lead to my loss. If I ever get the chance to represent Korea at WCG again, I won't repeat that mistake.
Not long ago, Guillaume Patry (Note: Grrr..., Giyom, whatever) posted on a website that he had met Savior. We asked Savior the reason behind this meeting.
Savior: I didn't know he had written anything (laughs). I was meeting a hyung of mine, when he suddenly called someone on the phone and said "I've got somewhere here who can beat you at Starcraft, so hurry on out." I thought he was just joking around with a friend, but after a while Giyom came in.
That was the first time I had seen him, but he knew a lot about me. I was surprised! We competed in completely different periods, and he had already retired by the time I was starting to draw attention. I thought he wouldn't know about me at all.
I'm very cautious around strangers, but Giyom was comfortable around me and was very nice for someone I had met for the first time. The most interesting thing was that he wasn't just good at Korean, he was so fluent that I would have believed he was a Korean himself. We had no problems communicating (laughs).
Since we were on the topic of Giyom, we decided to ask him about his friends in general. We asked him about his friendships with players outside his guild, such as Hwasin, Bisu and Ruby.
Savior: Well in the case of Bisu, we dropped using respective form of Korean (Note: Korean has different forms depending on how respective one is, going from very casual to very respective. By default, one is respective with strangers of the same age, and it is a sign of familiarity and friendship to start using casual form) after we had an interview with a certain media outlet. After that, we met a lot at various tournaments, so we became more familiar with each other. As for Hwasin, I don't remember exactly when, but he approached me on battle.net one day, and I found out he was my dongsaeng (younger than him). We played a lot of games, and we got closer after that.
Still, I don't meet either of them personally or anything. It's just that I'm very particular about my friends, so I almost never talk to players on other teams. So if I just talk to someone, people think that "Oh, he must be really close with him!" (laughs).
Ruby I meet up with occasionally for fun, together with Shark. Ruby would always follow me around saying "Hyung, hyung!" so I guess we became friends naturally. Because I don't speak much, not many players approach me. But Ruby took the initiative so it worked out well. He joined Air Force Ace recently, so I hope he adjusts to that life well.
Savior has some celebrity connections outside of progaming. There was an incident where Ye Seong from Super Junior (Korean boy band) called up Savior during a radio show, and there is a picture of Savior with the actor Ryu Shi-Won. What is there to these acquaintances?
Savior: Ryu Shiwon I came to know through a hyung of mine. Ye Seong I just became friends with by random chance. As for the phone call, I was working out at the gym when he called me and said "I'm going to call you on the radio in a few minutes, so pick up!" So I ended up taking that call at the gym.
When you're a top progamer, you get a lot of opportunities to meet celebrities. Asides from getting to know them, you actually have more chances to see some celebrities than other progamers, so I think that's why you make some celebrity friends.
You can tell, since Boxer, Nada, and Bisu all have some of their own celebrity friends.
Speaking of celebrities, we simply had to come onto the topic of what his ideal woman was. Both Savior and Jaedong say the actress Lee Yeon Hee is their kind of girl. A little while ago, Jaedong revealed he had gotten a video message from Lee Yeon Hee cheering him on for the OSL final. What was Savior's reaction?
Savior: I don't have the connections to get a video message from Lee Yeon Hee. How sad.
If I get to the finals in the future, I won't stop at a video message, and I want to get a picture with her. I won't be satisfied with just a video. (laughs)
I like her because she has an image of purity, and she seems kind. A lot of celebrities are pretty, but I think I like Lee Yeon Hee in particular because of her innocent look.
And now, fan questions!
Q: Past and present, what player in CJ taunts you the most? (And I am not baiting you into saying Memory).
Savior: No one really does that to me. Some players are quite insolent though. These days, SkyHigh is really a handful. On TV he manages to put on a stoic facade, but that couldn't be further from the truth. You have no idea how insolent that kid is.
Q: Memory retired a few days ago, your thoughts?
Savior: I think that the fact that he was doing poorly even though he was practicing very hard, and that SkyHigh was doing so well, became a very big concern for him. He must have felt so stressed out, and feeling that his position in the team had fallen, he probably decided to retire.
It's not like we're that young, so we have to make our own decisions. He said he would quit progaming and take up school again. I really hope he does well!
Q: The MSL group selections are coming up (Note: This question is dated June 3rd, while this article was published on the 15th). I guess you'll answer this question after it's over? 1: How was the group selection ceremony (Stuff like you were happy to meet your gamer friends’ again etc lol)? 2: Are you happy with the brackets? 3: What match do you think will be the most interesting, besides your own? Sorry I had so many questions!
Savior: I wanted to play in the group with three Protoss players, but I ended up in the three Terran group instead. Protoss is a lot easier than terran, so I had hoped for that group because I really wanted to get into the top 16.
At least I only have to practice ZvT though. I'll prepare hard, and make it through. I've got some confidence, so maybe I'll get through?
Q: What does Coach Cho mean to you? How about CJ Entus? Be honest!
Savior: Since I'm the only player to win a title after CJ was founded, I still think of Ma Jae Yoon (Note:himself) when I think of CJ. Through all those leagues, foreign tournaments, superfights, etc, I was always wearing the CJ uniform.
It's like a pillar (Note: the Korean connotation here is something he can really rely on for stability) for me, the team. I hope a lot of winners come from this team after me.
Q: What do you think of your many, many nicknames (Note: Story for another day, suffice to say he has a lot)? Which nicknames do you like the most, and which do you dislike?
Savior: There are a lot of other players who are doing well and get a lot of air time, so I don't know why I get so many nicknames. I manage to pick up new nicknames after single games, or even if I do something as mundane as cutting my hair.
Well, that's a good thing for me. It means that people still care that much about me. It's something to be very happy about.
Personally I like Maestro, and Ma Bonjwa the best. I think it represents who I am the best, and they are names only the best players can have.
As we end the interview, Savior asked why we included him in our series of interviews with five top zergs. We told him it was because his combined wins in individual leagues, and his performance in Proleague were the reasons. Savior replied "Honestly, I really didn't want to do today's interview."
"The relay interviews seem to revolve around players who are doing well lately, and I don't want to be interviewed with my recent performance. I wanted to do it after I had shown people something worth seeing. But as a way to talk to my fans about how I'm doing lately, I thought it was really fun and now I'm sad it's over."
Savior read over the fan questions, and saw how his fans still thought highly of him and cheered him on. "I'm a really happy progamer" he said "I have some personal issues, but I hope to get through them soon and move ahead."
To finish, we asked him for messages to the other four Zerg interviewees.
To JulyZerg: I know we're not that close, and I still use respectful form with you, but I think you're a really great player. I have real repsect for players who have won individual leagues. I hope you keep representing Zerg in the future.
To Jaedong: You're doing so well lately, and I know you're going to keep doing great. I'm learning a lot lately, so it's too bad I haven't gotten to see you that often backstage. Let's try to share strategies when we can.
To Luxury and Yarnc: We were friendly as amateurs, and I'm proud that we could become pros together. We used to talk a lot about strategies in the past, so it's unfortunate that being on different teams prevents us from meeting, talking or sharing ideas. I hope we can have some strategic exchanges later, and talk about current Zerg trends.
Excerpt from interview
Savior:
"Whatever you are doing, the finish is the most important thing.
From the position I have been put in, I will do my best to become a progamer who will be remembered fondly in his last days.
Please have faith, and stay tuned."
