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On May 30 2009 09:34 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:33 Aegraen wrote:On May 30 2009 09:32 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 30 2009 09:13 Aegraen wrote:
Please, homosexuals stop trying to impose your ideology onto others. It's getting a tad ridiculous. LOL I like this arguement. Make the gay people seem oppressive. Its the Pro-marriage (btw the name is ridiculos for a group that wants less marriage) bloc that is being wronged. We should have used this with slavery (stop trying to impose your "free" ideology on me). Do you realize that Gay couples HAVE THE SAME BENEFITS DERIVED FROM THE STATE AS THOSE MARRIED? Do you even know this? Aegraen please reply, from where do you derive the definition of marriage ?
Way to sidetrack the issue. Anyways, previous to 2003 (That's when Merriam changed the definition), there was no such thing as 'same-sex' marriage. It's pretty absurd in the first place to put 'same-sex' infront of marriage, if marriage defines this all ready. From this point on I never want to see people put, 'same-sex', 'gay', etc. infront of marriage if you believe that marriage all ready means this. It just goes to show the hypocrisy.
Marriage as always been only between a man and a woman throughout all of history.
Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that.
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United States12607 Posts
On May 30 2009 09:37 Archerofaiur wrote: How warped has religion become that it now precludes love? I see where you're coming from, but please don't give the opposition fodder by introducing religion. I can just see the anti-gay-marriage posters in this thread reading your post and then salivating uncontrollably as they write a response like: "show me where i said religion precludes love. marraige does not equal love, gays can have civil unions and be in love".
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On May 30 2009 09:37 Archerofaiur wrote: How warped has religion become that it now precludes love?
The religious institution of marriage has never had anything to do with love. For thousands of years people have married their daughters off in exchange for debts, property, and social standing. Love, unfortunately, has little to do with it as long as they have different sets of genitalia.
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United States24483 Posts
On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote: Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that. I think any major issue has tons of this shit and you are just cherry picking anyway.
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On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:34 travis wrote:On May 30 2009 09:33 Aegraen wrote:On May 30 2009 09:32 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 30 2009 09:13 Aegraen wrote:
Please, homosexuals stop trying to impose your ideology onto others. It's getting a tad ridiculous. LOL I like this arguement. Make the gay people seem oppressive. Its the Pro-marriage (btw the name is ridiculos for a group that wants less marriage) bloc that is being wronged. We should have used this with slavery (stop trying to impose your "free" ideology on me). Do you realize that Gay couples HAVE THE SAME BENEFITS DERIVED FROM THE STATE AS THOSE MARRIED? Do you even know this? Aegraen please reply, from where do you derive the definition of marriage ? Way to sidetrack the issue. Anyways, previous to 2003 (That's when Merriam changed the definition), there was no such thing as 'same-sex' marriage. It's pretty absurd in the first place to put 'same-sex' infront of marriage, if marriage defines this all ready. From this point on I never want to see people put, 'same-sex', 'gay', etc. infront of marriage if you believe that marriage all ready means this. It just goes to show the hypocrisy. Marriage as always been only between a man and a woman throughout all of history. Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that.
so?? if its been between a man and a woman in the past, why should it still be like that now? Can't things change? if the only basis for not allowing it is...."well...they always dun' it that way!!" then thats ridiculous
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marriage is the sacred bond between a man and a woman
*gets divorced 3 times*
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United States12607 Posts
lol, I wonder how many times Aegrean is going to compare gay marriage supporters to the Gestapo in this thread.
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On May 30 2009 09:41 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote: Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that. I think any major issue has tons of this shit and you are just cherry picking anyway.
Wrong. Prop 8 supporters never did any of this.
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Really? Figuring out what "marriage" means is sidetracking the issue? What do you think this topic is about?
Marriage is matrimony. It is a display of love and/or devotion between 2 individuals. If 2 men(or 2 women) love each other why should they not be allowed to do this, if not for reasons of religious agenda ?
How does what has happened in the past matter at all? In the past no one flew to the moon. In the past, all groups have kept slaves. In the past, murder was commonplace. In the past - eh, do I really need to continue on with this list?
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On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote:
Marriage as always been only between a man and a woman throughout all of history.
If I can provide you an example will you admit your definition is wrong?
On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote: Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that.
Remember when those black people were being oppressive and doing all those things. Good thing we didnt cave and give them equal rights. Otherwise everyone would want them.
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The problem with this debate is that it has been masqueraded by stupid Christian conservatives like it has something to do with religion. And we all know that religion and politcs don't combine. The result of this is that advocates of gay marrIAge lable people with legitimate reasons on why gay marrIAge shouldn't be as haters of gays, and idiot Christians.
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United States12607 Posts
On May 30 2009 09:43 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:41 micronesia wrote:On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote: Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that. I think any major issue has tons of this shit and you are just cherry picking anyway. Wrong. Prop 8 supporters never did any of this. That does not mean they are right about Proposition 8. Stop trying to disguise the fact that there is no rational basis for your beliefs by dropping random facts about a small minority of the opposition.
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On May 30 2009 09:42 JWD wrote: lol, I wonder how many times Aegrean is going to compare gay marriage supporters to the Gestapo in this thread.
I could change it around, you never know, but the tactics are pulled straight from their playbook. I followed each side seeing how it unfolded in the most liberal state in the country. Frankly, let california do what it wants to do, but don't hold me responsible for their decisions like the stimulus crapola. They'll be bankrupt soon enough anyways.
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On May 30 2009 09:43 travis wrote: How does what has happened in the past matter at all?
It's shows that the people that claim: "Marriage is fundamentally something between two people, and god/church/state." are wrong.
I am sure no one tries to claim that because it was like that throughout history that means it should be that way now because it is better for exactly that reason.
Ok, Aegraen is an idiot even when he is on the same side of the argument. Makes sense..
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On May 30 2009 09:43 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote:
Marriage as always been only between a man and a woman throughout all of history. If I can provide you an example will you admit your definition is wrong? Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote: Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that. Remember when those black people were being oppressive and doing all those things. Good thing we didnt cave and give them equal rights. Otherwise everyone would want them.
I addressed this, gay couples have the same benefits as married couples. What 'rights' do they not have?
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United States12607 Posts
On May 30 2009 09:43 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:41 micronesia wrote:On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote: Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that. I think any major issue has tons of this shit and you are just cherry picking anyway. Wrong. Prop 8 supporters never did any of this.
http://vimeo.com/2053489
lol
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On May 30 2009 09:45 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:43 Aegraen wrote:On May 30 2009 09:41 micronesia wrote:On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote: Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that. I think any major issue has tons of this shit and you are just cherry picking anyway. Wrong. Prop 8 supporters never did any of this. That does not mean they are right about Proposition 8. Stop trying to disguise the fact that there is no rational basis for your beliefs by dropping random facts about a small minority of the opposition.
One, its not a small minority. It's the vast majority. Secondly, so because you believe their 'plight' is so moral and they are losing out on all these 'rights' (Again, those in marriage, and civil unions have the same benefits. I'll make this easy. You believe benefits = rights), they're above being civil?
Have mercy on all of us if this behavior is condoned.
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On May 30 2009 09:43 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:41 micronesia wrote:On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote: Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that. I think any major issue has tons of this shit and you are just cherry picking anyway. Wrong. Prop 8 supporters never did any of this.
really? here....read a report from APA
+ Show Spoiler + In January 2009, the American Psychological Association (APA) released three separate studies that described the psychological distress associated with anti same-sex marriage amendments. One study using national survey responses of LGBTI individuals found that those who live in states that have passed marriage amendments experienced increased psychological stress not due to other pre-existing conditions but as “a direct result of the negative images and messages associated with the ballot campaign and the passage of the amendment.” Furthermore, participants reported feeling “alienated from their community, fearful they would lose their children, and concerned they would become victims of anti-gay violence.” These studies also reported that this harm extends to Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Intersex (LGBTI) family members and straight allies who experience a form of “secondary minority stress.” Finally, “although many participants displayed resiliency and effective coping with this stress, some experienced strong negative consequences to their mental and physical health.”
Marriage Equality USA, through a series of town halls held across California and a national on-line survey of over 3,100 respondents, collected community input regarding the homophobia and other harm experienced through initiative campaigns, like Proposition 8, and received personal stories that mirror these APA findings. In our report “Prop 8 Hurt My Family – Ask Me How,” we collected almost 1,200 individual experiences which illustrate how:
LGBTI people experience increased verbal abuse, homophobia, physical harm and other discrimination associated with or resulting from the Prop 8 campaign; Children of same-sex couples express fear due to direct exposure to homophobia and hate and concerns that the passage of Prop 8 means they could be taken from their families and targeted for further violence; LGBTI youth and their supporters experience increased bullying at schools as Prop 8’s passage fosters a supportive environment for homophobic acts of physical and emotional violence; Straight allies experience the impact of homophobia firsthand and express shock and fear for their LGBTI family members and friends and the danger they may experience if they were perceived as gay or an ally; Families are torn apart as relatives divide on Prop 8; and Communities are destroyed from the aftermath of abusive behavior towards them during local street demonstrations, neighborhood divisions, and the impact of “knowing your neighbor” voted against your family.
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On May 30 2009 09:47 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:43 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote:
Marriage as always been only between a man and a woman throughout all of history. If I can provide you an example will you admit your definition is wrong? On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote: Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that. Remember when those black people were being oppressive and doing all those things. Good thing we didnt cave and give them equal rights. Otherwise everyone would want them. I addressed this, gay couples have the same benefits as married couples. What 'rights' do they not have?
And you've been shown several times as being wrong. Many, in fact most, states do not give civil unions, and of those that do several do not give equal benefits to married couples.
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United States12607 Posts
On May 30 2009 09:47 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2009 09:43 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote:
Marriage as always been only between a man and a woman throughout all of history. If I can provide you an example will you admit your definition is wrong? On May 30 2009 09:39 Aegraen wrote: Anyways, anti-prop 8 supporters are oppressive. Vandalizing property, threatening peoples lives, assault and battery, runs the gamut. Reminds me of the gestapo. Calling up businesses and threatening them with violence, etc. This is all documented immensely, and if you want me to link for you, I'll gladly do that. Remember when those black people were being oppressive and doing all those things. Good thing we didnt cave and give them equal rights. Otherwise everyone would want them. I addressed this, gay couples have the same benefits as married couples. ...except being able to marry.
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