• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:51
CEST 14:51
KST 21:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll2Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension1Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone [Guide] MyStarcraft [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Porn and Stuff Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 555 users

Prop 8 upheld - Page 22

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 Next All
MuR)Ernu
Profile Joined September 2008
Finland768 Posts
May 30 2009 14:11 GMT
#421
A single parent can raise children right?

And two parents will do it better right?

If the gay parents just teach the children even from an early age that "some boys like boys and some like girls" etc. There should be no problem.

Not all kinds raised by straight parents are straight.


Gays should be able to marry. There is no real reason to NOT allow it.
Cali
Profile Joined May 2009
139 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-30 14:19:49
May 30 2009 14:18 GMT
#422
--- Nuked ---
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
May 30 2009 14:20 GMT
#423
On May 30 2009 22:43 HeadBangaa wrote:
The people overwhelmingly voted for prop 8, should it be overturned by a judge?


1. They didn't vote for it overwhelmingly

2. Judicial deference is a shitty philosophy that leads to unproper laws. If prop 8 had been determined to be a revision then yes the judges would have had no choice but to overturn it.


Everytime gay marriage goes before a popular vote, the people vote it down. The people have a right to self-determination above all else. Would you really trade democracy for oligarchy in order to win on a single issue? That is absolutely fucking retarded.

Prop 8/gay marriage brings out the stupidity and ignorance of the populace with respect to knowledge of government, like nothing I've ever seen.

If you really favor a small group of judges overturning an overwhelmingly popularly-voted piece of legislation, you are indeed subverting our democracy in favor of your single-issue obsession. Just remember, don't complain when the pendulum swings the other way, and democracy is subverted against your favorite political stance.

Self-determination is the most important liberty. Respect it or lose it,


Socrates became overwhelmingly disliked in Athens. They made him drink hemlock. Yay for democracy and self-determination...?
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9947 Posts
May 30 2009 14:43 GMT
#424
On May 30 2009 22:43 HeadBangaa wrote:
The people have spoken.

Look beyond the particular issue.

The people overwhelmingly voted for prop 8, should it be overturned by a judge?


Everytime gay marriage goes before a popular vote, the people vote it down. The people have a right to self-determination above all else. Would you really trade democracy for oligarchy in order to win on a single issue? That is absolutely fucking retarded.

Prop 8/gay marriage brings out the stupidity and ignorance of the populace with respect to knowledge of government, like nothing I've ever seen.

If you really favor a small group of judges overturning an overwhelmingly popularly-voted piece of legislation, you are indeed subverting our democracy in favor of your single-issue obsession. Just remember, don't complain when the pendulum swings the other way, and democracy is subverted against your favorite political stance.

Self-determination is the most important liberty. Respect it or lose it,


....

Are you retarded?

So you think if California had a ballot right now wether or not to make all black people slaves again and it would win, it would be a fair decision?

Remember, democracy was made to protect the rights of the people, not to give the people a way to violate other people's rights. Majority rules, but shouldn't be able to dominate the minority no matter what.

Direct democracy fails in a lot of aspects, that's why most political systems were built in a complex way to prevent abuse like this.
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
hubfub
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Australia352 Posts
May 30 2009 14:58 GMT
#425
On May 30 2009 07:29 Fontong wrote:
This is just funny...OP banned before even the 3rd response.

However, I am against prop 8. I just don't get why people are so concerned that the institution of marriage will somehow be corrupted if people of the same gender are allowed to marry. Luckily, in the future California should only become more liberal as the conservative christians become old and die off.



how can u tell some1 has been banned?
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
May 30 2009 14:59 GMT
#426
If you're looking at this as an instance of a group trying to exert normative force through the legal system in the face of a crushing majority consistently saying no, then no, this isn't an abuse.

Look at the history of the gay marriage issue in Canada: it was exclusively about the word marriage and not the legal status of the couples.

That said, I don't really see why people are fighting for strong families; the institution itself has been obliterated in the past 40 years for economic reasons. Government needs to step out of the marriage arena completely.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Amber[LighT]
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States5078 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-30 15:12:05
May 30 2009 15:02 GMT
#427
On May 30 2009 23:58 hubfub wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2009 07:29 Fontong wrote:
This is just funny...OP banned before even the 3rd response.

However, I am against prop 8. I just don't get why people are so concerned that the institution of marriage will somehow be corrupted if people of the same gender are allowed to marry. Luckily, in the future California should only become more liberal as the conservative christians become old and die off.



how can u tell some1 has been banned?


I believe the nuke icon indicates that

On May 30 2009 23:18 Cali wrote:
Court upheld it on the grounds of the lawsuit; that the voters have a right to change the Cali Constitution though a prop, which the lawsuits aimed at prop 8 was about.

Doesn't mean they upheld anti-gay marriage, doesn't mean prop 8 can still be upheld, only means prop 8 stands against that lawsuit. Also means it can be changed by another prop in the future, also means the prop can be overturned in another lawsuit that doesn't aim at revisions of the constitution though props.

This thread is pointless to that extent as that it talks nothing about that.



This is typical of a TL thread about gay marriage. The Europeans come in bitching at why they "think gay marriage is acceptable and America is stupid for not allowing it" and then people come in trying to explain why gay's can raise children like single parents can, and then someone brings up the sacrament of marriage and it gets challenged by predating events, and then the discussion goes absolutely nowhere, and then the state goes against every "valid" argument posted in this thread as to why gay marriage is acceptable and upholds current policy or makes slight adjustments to accommodate gay marriage, without actually calling it that, or in some cases inhibiting abilities to obtain gay marriage rights.

Here's a cool little timeline about gay marriage around the world if people want to view it:
(looks like it dates from last Tuesday to the 1960's, as well as one entry from 1885)
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/05/26/f-same-sex-timeline.html
"We have unfinished business, I and he."
Diomedes
Profile Joined March 2009
464 Posts
May 30 2009 15:13 GMT
#428
But the US constitution prevents the refusal of gay marriage. It's not about Europeans bitching. It's about Americans violating their 'holy' constitution.
Culture
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada488 Posts
May 30 2009 17:46 GMT
#429
Twenty years from now the absurdity of the validness of gay marriage will seem as silly as a discussion about interracial marriage would seem now.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9617 Posts
May 30 2009 18:05 GMT
#430
On May 31 2009 00:13 Diomedes wrote:
But the US constitution prevents the refusal of gay marriage. It's not about Europeans bitching. It's about Americans violating their 'holy' constitution.


yeah i dont really see where equal protection to citizens is ambiguous.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-30 18:12:02
May 30 2009 18:06 GMT
#431
On May 31 2009 02:46 Culture wrote:
Twenty years from now the absurdity of the validness of gay marriage will seem as silly as a discussion about interracial marriage would seem now.



It really is.


If you have an grandparent from the south ask them what it was like living with segregation. Youll be surprised at how similar the thinking was to anti-gay marriage rhetoric. It wasnt that they hated blacks it was just that this was how it had always been done and if you integrated there might be adverse consequences. Turns out integrating blacks did not lead to the destruction of American society.


It is hopeful to think that there was a time when a black president was as far fetched an idea as a gay president is now. Im betting I will live to see it happen.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
jkillashark
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States5262 Posts
May 30 2009 18:14 GMT
#432
Why do gay people need to use a Biblical term (marriage) for a union for something so un-Biblical (Bible says homosexuality is an abomination)?

Personally, I don't feel the need to bash gay people. I do have a few friends who are gay and I do respect them. Yes, they are people too. Yet I do not understand why they need to use marriage as the official term between their partner? I feel that it's like WASP people going to a Islamic mosque and having a Muslim wedding? How would those in the mosque feel? Yeah, it would be okay for them if they lead a Muslim lifestyle afterward, but if they know they're just abusing the culture and religion obviously the Muslims are gonna have a problem with that?

I feel that it's the same way for me. I as a Christian, maybe a very selfish Christian, feel that marriage was and still is a Christian way of expressing a union between a man and a woman. I'm totally fine if gay people would like to register their partnership or union, but stay away from my freaking religion and come up with your own damn term for a union.
Do your best, God will do the rest.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-30 18:19:55
May 30 2009 18:18 GMT
#433
On May 31 2009 03:14 jkillashark wrote:
Why do gay people need to use a Biblical term (marriage) for a union for something so un-Biblical (Bible says homosexuality is an abomination)?



Did you read the 11 times this has aready been addressed in this thread.


A) Civil union and marriage are not the same thing in terms of federal benifits, state recognition, health insurance etc..

B) Even if they were exactly the same it would still be seperate but equal which as we all know is not equal.

C) Marriage is not a biblical term
"The word 'marriage' originates from 1297, from Old French mariage (12c.), from Vulgar Latin *maritaticum, from Latin maritatus, pp. of maritatre "to wed, marry, give in marriage". "
Source: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081003094736AAOmExq

D) Bible says allot of things. Anyway you dice it two people loving each other is the farthest thing you can have from an abomination.

http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9617 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-30 18:22:11
May 30 2009 18:19 GMT
#434
the word marriage is no longer strictly biblical thanks to those trying to put it into federal and state constitutions.

or it seems never was
sweet

lol separate but equal. how apropros
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9617 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-30 18:26:19
May 30 2009 18:25 GMT
#435
can someone break down to me unbiasedly the argument that this is not blatantly legalized discrmination?

Is it going to rely on the fact that sexual orientation is not a protected class?
Idle
Profile Joined May 2009
Korea (South)124 Posts
May 30 2009 19:11 GMT
#436
On May 31 2009 03:14 jkillashark wrote:
I as a Christian, maybe a very selfish Christian, feel that marriage was and still is a Christian way of expressing a union between a man and a woman.


I'm curious how you would account for the fact that non-christian cultures all over the world have marriages. Not to mention if your argument is for the word itself, it did not even have christian origins.
I'd turn gay for Baby.... wait, that came out wrong.
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
May 30 2009 19:12 GMT
#437
On May 31 2009 03:25 Gene wrote:
can someone break down to me unbiasedly the argument that this is not blatantly legalized discrmination?

Is it going to rely on the fact that sexual orientation is not a protected class?


The only real argument against same sex marriage is that there are a lot of people who think its wrong, many of those church goers with lot of influence, the worst group to buy a political beef with because they are zealots, and they think their enemies are the enemies of god.
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
May 30 2009 19:24 GMT
#438
Someone should start a religion founded on the tenets of love and acceptancing others.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
May 30 2009 19:34 GMT
#439
On May 31 2009 04:24 Archerofaiur wrote:
Someone should start a religion founded on the tenets of love and acceptancing others.


Spiritualism - Background

Spiritualism in its modern incarnation started in the mid-19th century in the United States, a syncretic adjunct of largely Christian population. It is often described as Christian due to an essentially Christian moral system, a perceived belief in the Judeo-Christian God and an afterlife similar to the concept of Heaven. Liturgical practices such as Sunday services and the singing of hymns are also evidence of a largely Christian influence.

Traditional Spiritualists state that they are not necessarily Christians. While they view Jesus as a great teacher and likely a medium, they do not see belief in his teachings as required in order to enter the afterlife. (I kinda disagree on that he, but yea you necessarily need to treat him as something outwordly)

Traditional Spiritualist beliefs are not generally viewed as orthodox Christian, and many people from other traditions and religions take the title Spiritualist. In the United Kingdom there are many Spiritualist Churches that are non-denominational and welcome anyone from any religion. However, Spiritualism is distinct from Spiritism and its offshoots, New Age movements that practise otherwise similar mediumship as channeling, and the broader concept of spirituality.

Spiritualism also draws from the spiritual sects of Islam (Sufi), Judaism (Kabbalah) and Buddism. Some Spiritualists follow one distinct religion's practices while others pull elements from any or all of the three religions in addition to Buddism to formulate their beliefs. Some Spiritualist believe in the idea of the universe as the creator, and don't necessarily follow any specific religion. In any case, meditation usually play a large role in practices' of Spiritualists.

Another major belief is that of spiritual guides that help the Spiritualist live a more moral life as well as to make everyday decisions. The guides are not necessarily angels though sometimes angels may be consulted, generally the guide is believed to be someone that was once human at least once and is now on the other side. The Kabbalists use the term maggid which means "teacher."

The related word "Spiritism" has various usages:

* Kardecist Spiritism — the specific body of spiritualist beliefs, especially significant in Brazil, originated by Allan Kardec
* a pejorative synonym for Spiritualism used by its opponents such as some Christian churches
* a largely archaic general term for belief systems involving

In any aspect of Spiritualism, there is the core tenets of charity, accepting others and love.
Science is also very much respected inside this philosophy as many of its practicioners and the founder are scientists
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
DrTJEckleburg
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1080 Posts
May 30 2009 19:37 GMT
#440
Main opponents of gay marriage - Christians(the real hardcore ones are the LDS).

Strangely enough, the Romans, Greeks, and Sumerians even had marriage practices before the advent of Christianity.
Im pretty good at whistling with my hands, especially when Im holding a whistle.
Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#44
WardiTV1103
OGKoka 882
CranKy Ducklings139
Rex134
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 882
Harstem 381
Rex 134
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 10436
Rush 2972
Sea 2723
JulyZerg 1408
Zeus 1159
Larva 670
EffOrt 614
Stork 442
PianO 376
firebathero 313
[ Show more ]
Pusan 178
Mind 157
ToSsGirL 105
Sharp 61
Barracks 54
soO 52
sSak 38
Shine 35
Shinee 34
Movie 34
sorry 31
Terrorterran 21
IntoTheRainbow 11
SilentControl 9
Bale 9
zelot 0
Dota 2
qojqva3564
XcaliburYe626
syndereN194
League of Legends
Dendi1129
Counter-Strike
x6flipin817
flusha599
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King122
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor213
Other Games
singsing2065
B2W.Neo1339
hiko706
crisheroes433
Fuzer 304
Happy256
Lowko191
SortOf184
ArmadaUGS61
QueenE24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick4941
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1372
League of Legends
• Nemesis4343
Upcoming Events
RotterdaM Event
3h 9m
Replay Cast
21h 9m
WardiTV European League
1d 3h
ShoWTimE vs sebesdes
Percival vs NightPhoenix
Shameless vs Nicoract
Krystianer vs Scarlett
ByuN vs uThermal
Harstem vs HeRoMaRinE
PiGosaur Monday
1d 11h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Online Event
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.