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Active: 13150 users

Prop 8 upheld

Forum Index > Closed
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TheDarkSwarM
Profile Joined April 2009
United States4 Posts
May 29 2009 22:18 GMT
#1
So proposition 8 in California was challenged in the supreme court by all the Gay people in California and it was upheld and kept outlawing gay marriage for the foreseeable future

What you guys think about this?

personally i support prop 8 but i really wouldnt care either way im just not a fan of gay marriage what do you guys think about this supreme court decision?

2 in the pink 1 in the stink
ulszz
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
Jamaica1787 Posts
May 29 2009 22:21 GMT
#2
i rly think you're a troll.
i mean 2 in the pink 1 in the stink? srsly?

however, i believe anyone should have the right to marriage. and the whole "but god says marriage is between a man and woman" is utter bullshit. wut happend to division of church and state.

everliving, everfaithful, eversure
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15366 Posts
May 29 2009 22:23 GMT
#3
Valid topic, keep discussing.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
May 29 2009 22:29 GMT
#4
This is just funny...OP banned before even the 3rd response.

However, I am against prop 8. I just don't get why people are so concerned that the institution of marriage will somehow be corrupted if people of the same gender are allowed to marry. Luckily, in the future California should only become more liberal as the conservative christians become old and die off.
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
R3condite
Profile Joined August 2008
Korea (South)1541 Posts
May 29 2009 22:31 GMT
#5
well at least during that short interval of time ppl were allowed to marry rite? so i've heard anyways
ggyo...
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
May 29 2009 22:33 GMT
#6
OP wasn't banned for this thread though he was banned previously and was discovered again..

Discuss the subject perhaps not the banning.
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-29 22:35:34
May 29 2009 22:34 GMT
#7
It's important to note that the California Supreme Court had its hands tied somewhat in this case, because it makes its rulings based on the CA Constitution (and Prop 8 amends the CA Constitution to prohibit gay marriage). Here's the gist of the majority opinion:

In a sense, petitioners' and the attorney general's complaint is that it is just too easy to amend the California constitution through the initiative process. But it is not a proper function of this court to curtail that process; we are constitutionally bound to uphold it.

Basically, the Court was not in a position to rule for or against gay marriage per se, and thus their ruling should not be interpreted as the Court taking a position on gay marriage.

California's direct democracy measures are responsible for much more damage than Proposition 8 - there's an interesting article in last week's Economist that sums up how propositions and initiatives have led to legislative gridlock and massive budget problems in CA. It's recommended reading for any Californian and an interesting case study in the shortcomings of direct democracy.
✌
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
May 29 2009 22:41 GMT
#8
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alec-baldwin/why-childless-straight-co_b_208457.html

Alec Baldwin makes the case
+ Show Spoiler +

Why Childless Straight Couples Make the Case for Gay Marriage

I don't know what the best perspective is on the gay marriage issue. I don't know what to say to people to convince them that the issue of individual rights alone is enough to grant gay couples the right to marry. We live in a time when the idea of individual rights has been relegated to a quaint afterthought during the realignment of American values resulting from the current brawl between capitalism and democracy.

One perspective, however, keeps coming back at me. Fundamentalists believe that marriage is between a man and a woman and for the purpose of creating a family. A gay couple is incapable of having their own children, they assert, so they do not qualify to be married. But what of heterosexual couples who marry with no intention of having children. Beyond any issues of infertility or illness, there are men and women who are married in the eyes of the state, enjoying all of the legal benefits, who have no intention of having children. They seek only companionship and all of the entitlements that come with marriage. Sex, joy, partnership, caring. All of that is theirs, even though they will never bear children and willfully so. If the state says they are free to do that, why aren't gay couples, as well.

This country denies gay couples that right only by asserting that gay Americans do not have the exact same rights as those deliberately childless straight couples. And that is to say that homosexuality itself is illegal. Opponents would have to say that they do not want gay couples to enjoy the same lifestyle as straight couples who refuse to have children because gay Americans are not entitled to have the sex, joy, partnership and caring that their straight counterparts have. They would, therefore, have to outlaw homosexuality itself. Either that or outlaw every single marriage wherein that couple refuses to raise a family. One or the other. That's it. No other choice.

Do you think this society is prepared to outlaw homosexuality? Even with all the fear and hatred of homosexuals that some groups promulgate today? Think about that. Think about the effort and cost involved to argue that case. To write and manifest those laws. To prosecute them and punish the "transgressors." Will our society similarly outlaw childless heterosexual marriage? Of course not. That is ridiculous in the extreme. Ridiculous and wrong.

Once you embrace this basic idea, the rest of the argument falls into place. Gay couples are free not only to marry, but to create families in every way that heterosexual couples who cannot bear their own children do. Adoption, surrogacy, etc.

One does not have to possess one molecule of identification with the gay cultural or political experience in this country to believe that gay Americans have the right to marry. Such a stance is not similar to saying, "I always wanted to play the piano so I favor government scholarships for music study." You do not need to have one ounce of affinity for gay people in our society whatsoever to recognize that they are being shamefully wronged every day we allow this to continue.
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
InToTheWannaB
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4770 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-29 22:44:33
May 29 2009 22:42 GMT
#9
I personally think that gay marriage is fine. Its not hurting anyone if two gay people get hitched. What always surprises me is how fiercely people with fight over gay marriage, but no one talks about gay adoption.

I don't think having gay parents will make a child gay or anything silly like that. Still your going to take a crap load of verbal abuse with gay parents. I'm not sure its right to put a child threw that. I guess the alternative is having no parents at all, but the point is gay adoption seems like a better issuse to debate then gay marriage.
When the spirit is not altogether slain, great loss teaches men and women to desire greatly, both for themselves and for others.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
May 29 2009 22:44 GMT
#10
On May 30 2009 07:18 TheDarkSwarM wrote:
So proposition 8 in California was challenged in the supreme court by all the Gay people in California and it was upheld and kept outlawing gay marriage for the foreseeable future

What you guys think about this?

personally i support prop 8 but i really wouldnt care either way im just not a fan of gay marriage what do you guys think about this supreme court decision?



Why aren't you a fan of gay marriage?

They deserve to suffer like everyone else.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
koOl
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada254 Posts
May 29 2009 22:46 GMT
#11
like someone said in a thread that was similar to this one - one day ppl are going to be ashamed to tell there grand kids they voted yes on prop 8
hihi
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7579 Posts
May 29 2009 22:47 GMT
#12
I can't believe gay marriage keeps getting denied =(. Its so embarassing for me. I am very proud of where I'm from but if the most liberal state can't even treat people as equals what hope do all the crappy-redneck states in the bible belt have.

I am not educated enough to really discuss all the court related stuff. I simply have voted 2 times in four years to try and legalize gay marriage and it hasn't worked out =(.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
May 29 2009 22:50 GMT
#13
On May 30 2009 07:34 JWD wrote:
California's direct democracy measures are responsible for much more damage than Proposition 8 - there's an interesting article in last week's Economist that sums up how propositions and initiatives have led to legislative gridlock and massive budget problems in CA. It's recommended reading for any Californian and an interesting case study in the shortcomings of direct democracy.


This problem may be most obvious in California, but it is by no means unique to California; every single year I see fucking stupid garbage get put on my state's ballots.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
selboN
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States2523 Posts
May 29 2009 22:51 GMT
#14
On May 30 2009 07:47 AttackZerg wrote:
I can't believe gay marriage keeps getting denied =(. Its so embarassing for me. I am very proud of where I'm from but if the most liberal state can't even treat people as equals what hope do all the crappy-redneck states in the bible belt have.

I am not educated enough to really discuss all the court related stuff. I simply have voted 2 times in four years to try and legalize gay marriage and it hasn't worked out =(.

So, what "crappy-redneck states" are you referring to? I think your lack of education goes deeper than just your ignorance to the legal system.
"That's what happens when you're using a mouse made out of glass!" -Tasteless (Referring to ZergBong)
Railz
Profile Joined July 2008
United States1449 Posts
May 29 2009 22:52 GMT
#15
On May 30 2009 07:31 R3condite wrote:
well at least during that short interval of time ppl were allowed to marry rite? so i've heard anyways


Short? There are a ton of pre-married gay couples in California. This banning idea is new to this year. Bullshit I say, when a state like Iowa somehow manages to get more more morales then California where gay rights first were even heard of.
Did the whole world just get a lot smaller and go whooosh?_-` Number 0ne By.Fantasy Fanatic!
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9950 Posts
May 29 2009 22:53 GMT
#16
On May 30 2009 07:42 InToTheWannaB wrote:
I personally think that gay marriage is fine. Its not hurting anyone if two gay people get hitched. What always surprises me is how fiercely people with fight over gay marriage, but no one talks about gay adoption.

I don't think having gay parents will make a child gay or anything silly like that. Still your going to take a crap load of verbal abuse with gay parents. I'm not sure its right to put a child threw that. I guess the alternative is having no parents at all, but the point is gay adoption seems like a better issuse to debate then gay marriage.


I think alot of people that are against gay marriage should actually just be against gay adoption. Their arguments mostly only apply for religious marriage or adoption.

I have not come across any real argument against gay marriage yet, and can't imagine there being any to be honest. I'm always in utter disbelief when people say "it just feels wrong" and think that's enough of an argument. Have you ever heard that in any other debate as a valid argument?
Some people are just too narrow-minded. No gay marriage is pure discrimination.
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
Railz
Profile Joined July 2008
United States1449 Posts
May 29 2009 22:54 GMT
#17
On May 30 2009 07:51 selboN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2009 07:47 AttackZerg wrote:
I can't believe gay marriage keeps getting denied =(. Its so embarassing for me. I am very proud of where I'm from but if the most liberal state can't even treat people as equals what hope do all the crappy-redneck states in the bible belt have.

I am not educated enough to really discuss all the court related stuff. I simply have voted 2 times in four years to try and legalize gay marriage and it hasn't worked out =(.

So, what "crappy-redneck states" are you referring to? I think your lack of education goes deeper than just your ignorance to the legal system.



Bullshit. Education has nothing to do with culturing. Anyone who has traveled the USA can attest to what the difference in cultural differences between a state like New York and a state like Tennessee.

He is absolutely correct, if not a bit harsh. Nothing but the courts is stopping Gay Marriage in California - only thing stopping them is the monetary support coming in from the Mormons in Utah.
Did the whole world just get a lot smaller and go whooosh?_-` Number 0ne By.Fantasy Fanatic!
AlTheCake
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada1071 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-29 22:56:46
May 29 2009 22:55 GMT
#18
Being Gay myself I (obviously) support gay marriage. I do live in Canada, however, which means that I can get married any time I want.

I hope gay people in the U.S. can marry soon, though. And kudos to all the people who voting against prop 8.
houseurmusic
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States544 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-29 23:03:16
May 29 2009 22:56 GMT
#19
Although I am very liberal I am concerned about the institution of marraige. Marraige is the foundation to a proper family. Almost all these sacred bonds between a man and a women yield children. These children will have the best chance for survival if their parents are in love and don't stray. This is true from a Darwinian point of view, being in love means there is less chance of straying to another partner because of chemical reactions tricking our minds into believing the one we are with is the best possible choice. However, this chemical reaction isn't enough. Humans are a very social species and even in the most primitive cultures there was the idea of this sacred bond between men and women. People who loved, and cultures that had this bond were the groups that had the best chance of survival, and thus went on reproducing to lead to us.

This sacred bond has then been passed on as a meme for thousands of years now. We call this bond marraige. This bond is understood universally since every culture has a form of it. It is also the same word that connects us to our most primitive ancestors.

Do I care about gays being together? Hell no, but should we call a union between two of them marraige? The answer is simple. No.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
May 29 2009 22:58 GMT
#20
On May 30 2009 07:51 selboN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2009 07:47 AttackZerg wrote:
I can't believe gay marriage keeps getting denied =(. Its so embarassing for me. I am very proud of where I'm from but if the most liberal state can't even treat people as equals what hope do all the crappy-redneck states in the bible belt have.

I am not educated enough to really discuss all the court related stuff. I simply have voted 2 times in four years to try and legalize gay marriage and it hasn't worked out =(.

So, what "crappy-redneck states" are you referring to? I think your lack of education goes deeper than just your ignorance to the legal system.


Everything south of Missouri.

Don't try to pretend it isn't true.. because it is. I know, i've lived in Texas for 17 years.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
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