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On May 19 2009 08:28 Shikyo wrote:
Oh yeah, Jayme. What do you think about all the clues people are trying to link to you?
I'll address this right now.
What clues?
The only thing I have seen even remotely linked to me is the word "creep" and my pet zergling icon. I don't need to remind you that we have at least 8 players with zerg icons playing this game. You will be rather hard pressed to validate anything based solely on that.
This all being said I voted for JeeJee. His behavior analysis has always been pretty spot on and going through past games it should be blatantly obvious if he's not for the town... setting him up for a lynch down the road.
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On May 19 2009 11:46 Foolishness wrote:
Shikyo, just because I've only made a few posts has nothing to do with you getting elected or acting suspicious. Just because you have made the most posts doesn't make you a winner.
With that being said, I am running for sheriff.
Why? Because I am not Shikyo.
So far this game, Shikyo has done nothing but post a lot and write a very charismatic ballot. He has run uncontested, and none of the other candidates are willing to step up against him. There has hardly been any debate between him and the other candidates. We cannot let him gain control of an office position so easily like this.
There are many suspicious activities going on with his office running. He labeled out the scenario how mafia get 6 votes, and he chooses to obstain his vote, thereby gaining his chance of him getting into office. It is necessary to point out how the mafia would probably not all vote for the same person, but in the scenario where one person is dominating they clearly would.
Shikyo has been obtaining votes from the most random of people. People who have not backed up their reasoning and people who have not voted at all. In one case, someone clearly stated that they were voting for one of the other candidates (although this was prior to Shikyo's running), but then voted for Shikyo without saying a word about it (and then latter ignored this fact when he finally did post).
Shikyo has seemed like a good candidate until I raised possible suspicion about him. I clearly was not accusing him of anything, I just wanted to hear what he had to say. Instead he retorted almost angerily at me, implying that my posts meant nothing since I have only posted a few times. It is only natural for me to want to make sure we as a town are electing the best people into office. Someone who goes on the defensive when asked why the situation does not add up is not the person we want in office.
However I do not possess any qualities that would make me good candidate other than I am not Shikyo. This would be my first mafia game on TL, and none of you have any information about me. But this is all irrelevant. You can cast your vote and put a suspicious person into office or put your vote to better use. Just because he posts a lot does not make him the best choice.
You can vote for Shikyo and secure the fact that there will be suspicious happenings, or you can vote for me to ensure the town a victory. Even if you don't want to vote for me, pick someone else besides Shikyo.
The intention of your post seems swell enough but you have not said anything substantial to back it up. It's pretty obvious why he is running uncontested, because frankly his activity and his posts are a cut above the other candidates right now.
Your campaign message is: Run away from the bogeyman.
Well, that's not going to cut it. Where's your plan? How are we going to succeed? Where are the flaws in Shikyo's statements? Have you got any clues that might cast suspicion on him?
I do agree with Crate that confirming townies is a high priority for town. A confirmed vigi hit is the cleanest to do but a successful medic protection as outlined would definately be ideal. I am thinking of complications right now and will post more about it soon.
Jeejee, I had an eye on you ever since my preliminary clue search but these are so weak that I wanted to wait for one more day and wasn't putting it out. Now, after the echo chamber that you had with ilovektf and quiet support makes me more skeptical.
Meanwhile, downstairs, Qatol was using the Triumvirate Building's spacious archery range for target practice. As he looked down to reload, another figure crossed the room from the other side. The mafioso crept behind Qatol and took out his knife. Qatol never shot another arrow.
Fear is the strongest driving force in competition. Not fear of one's opponent, but of the skill and high standard he represents; fear, too, of not acquitting oneself well. In the achievement of higher performances, of beating formidable rivals, the athlete defeats fear and conquers himself. -Franz Stampfl
Your profile contains pretty much the only reference to athletic competition in the whole game. Franz Stampfl was a famous coach that had somewhat revolutionary ideas for how to train your body and practice for your sport, although he specialized in training runners he also trained other athletes in other fields. He was a noted olympic trainer, got his trainees many golds. The only place where archery is relevant today is athletic competition and the olympics.
Is this enough to say he is mafia, not even close. Is this enough to give you pause to vote for what appears to be the most important office for a mafia to gain, maybe.
Unfortunately, it would seem I am being self-serving. So in the end, it's up for the town to decide...
Of course, town, I do hope you give me your vote.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On May 19 2009 14:06 Jimtudor wrote:
The intention of your post seems swell enough but you have not said anything substantial to back it up. It's pretty obvious why he is running uncontested, because frankly his activity and his posts are a cut above the other candidates right now.
Your campaign message is: Run away from the bogeyman.
Well, that's not going to cut it. Where's your plan? How are we going to succeed? Where are the flaws in Shikyo's statements? Have you got any clues that might cast suspicion on him?
As I said, it seems to me the only reason his posts are above the other candidates is because he is posting more frequently, and because nobody has stood up against him.
I will try to summarize my suspicions against Shikyo. People are voting for him that have not said anything including someone who said he was going to vote for someone else (and then later avoided this fact when asked about it). More importantly, when I asked Shikyo about my suspicions, he retorted at me and implied in one of his comments that my facts were irrelevant because I have not posted much. His defensive outtake on my comments clearly indicates that something's up (even though I clearly did not accuse him of anything in my initial comments).
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I don't agree with lynching an inactive the first day. Since this is a newbie friendly game, those with blue roles might be more inclined to stay lurking since they know they have an important role and don't want to die so early. I remember when I was a medic (many times) all I thought about was staying alive so I can at least be able to contribute with protections each night - thus I stayed quiet and only communicated through PMs.
Also, with 30 players we have a much higher chance of lynching a poor blue this time around. I understand that there could be true green inactives, but to randomly pick someone imo is really dangerous. I suggest choosing someone that is both inactive and has somewhat of a clue pointing to that person.
Right now looking at all the platforms Shikyo has the most detailed and from first glance it does make him look the most trustworthy. Although the other candidates boast "experience", to me that really isn't the most important thing. It's the plan that the person comes up with that will attract my vote.
The problem is we really only have 3-4 real candidates running for mayor/sheriff. Shikyo seems like a shoe-in for sheriff with the mayor position up for grabs.
So with that said...
I'm going to be running for Mayor.
I've played in a couple mafia games previously. Didn't really say much or do much, but after much observation I am willing to use all that I understand for the town's benefit.
My plan:
1. Day 1 Lynch - I'd like for the town to vote for the day 1 lynch. Although if I get elected I have the choice, I am willing to let the town decide on who gets the axe day 1. This of course would only work if we collectively or majoritively agree on one person right now before the elections are over.
2. Town web -
a) Vigi Plan
I think Crate brought up a great point about the trouble of getting a confirmed towny. The vigi plan has some flaws though. The vigi can't roleclaim and announce his hit to the whole town because a mafia could just do the same. I noticed in the day post that the mafia don't have names. So we wouldn't really know if a new vigi has come out and performed his announced hit.
b) Medic plan
Nowhere does it say that the medic will know the role of the person he has saved. I agree that it is more likely for a medic to save a mafia hit than a vigi hit, but as a medic in previous games myself, it's pretty hard to judge who is going to get hit every night (that or I was a horrible medic lol). Also, in the less likely case of saving a mafia from a vigi - the medic may mistrust the saved mafia for a good guy. In the case that we do not get a successful block, then we should move on to another plan that I am suggesting: plan C.
c) Detective role-check
Depending on how far we get with the medic plan, we might have to consider the ultimatum which is to have a DT rolecheck someone - which would be the safest way, unless you manage to unluckily land on the godfather; then theres no way back. The chance of landing on the godfather is slim though, so I deem this the safest plan and most viable after using trying the medic plan.
If I do get elected, I will get 3 votes. I plan on voting on the basis of behavioural analysis and clues, with clues being 2nd most important (exceptions of course). I will try to share as much as I know with everybody to keep everyone out of the dark. As for the double-lynches, I hope that they will be used as soon as the town web gets rolling.
I hope I have said enough to convince you all to give me a chance, and I promise I will do my best to paint the walls of Fluidville bright red.
(I hope that wasn't bad for my first thread post)
Just realized theres a player named teks in this game - I hope you guys don't mistake me for him, my name is Zeks.
Thanks for reading!
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On May 19 2009 10:42 JeeJee wrote:
Also keep in mind, if a medic successfully protects X, this doesn't say anything about X's innocence. Sure, it's likely that X is a townie-aligned role that was hit by mafia, but it's also possible that it was a mafia hit by a vigi.
If Vigis do PM out their hits when they hit someone then we avoid that possible pitfall, so that sounds good.
The downside is that mafia can try to hide behind a PM wall here by PM'ing different people each night. This removes some suspicion from them and might make the entire game more difficult, particularly if we don't actually get the medic save that we're banking on for this plan to make sense.
I'm not sure what the best answer to this is. Perhaps it might work out best if Vigis just claim their own hits in this thread if this situation arises (Vigi hit blocked by medic)? We can lynch the player claiming Vigi that night to confirm his role.... We lose a lynch and a town-aligned player but it saves the plan, and this situation shouldn't happen in the first place so maybe this is ok. On the other hand, if it does arise, we're left pretty screwed in my analysis (town loses an entire lynch and a Vigi for essentially nothing; we can't afford to throw that away if the mafia plays well).
Both plans have merits, I think. I'm leaning toward the second since it makes the game easier if we don't get a medic save leading to a confirmed towny. The penalty for blocking a Vigi hit is giant but the chance of that happening should be small.
Leaving aside that situation for now--we only need a solution for Night 2 anyway since Vigis can't hit Night 1--let's assume we get a medic blocking a non-Vigi hit. Here's my proposed plan, with events in order (important!):
Player A takes a hit, protected by Medic B.
A claims the hit publicly.
We figure out it's not a Vigi hit (however we plan to do that)
B confirms the save.
Sheriff incarcerates A (we need to protect him for the night)
Now the town has to confirm B's role. I suggest lynching B to do that since it's quick and time is of the essence. We lose a medic and a lynch but we confirm A's innocence and get our mouth. My guess is this is worth it.
(In this scenario, A will only speak up if he is towny and did take a hit or if he is mafia. If A is mafia, B will only speak up if he is also mafia. If B flips red, we lynch A the day after).
We do for sure want B to speak up only after we confirm the hit was not a Vigi hit--otherwise, if it does end up being a Vigi hit, we've just had a medic roleclaim to the mafia and that's not good. I don't see any benefits to having B speak up before we determine it's not a Vigi hit that got blocked.
Hm.
One other thing I thought of: what if multiple players claim to have saved A? Either all of those players claiming to have saved are mafia and A is also mafia (way to throw the game, reds!), or A is town, one of the players claiming medic is a medic, and the rest are mafia. In this case, I guess we lynch all the players claiming to have saved A. Sheriff does not incarcerate A, and we probably end up losing A (to a mafia hit ... unless medics save him again?) and a medic (to being lynched), but we do lynch at least one mafia. Still looks good to me on paper.
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I don't want to take the focus too much off the election, by the way--the election is important. I'm trying mainly to spark discussion from the candidates (and the rest of the players--more talk usually only helps the town) to let the useful ones show the town they're useful and to give us more information about all of them regardless.
If I post in this topic again tonight it'll be right before I go to bed, but I might not post any more tonight. In the morning I will cast my initial vote in the election. If I were to vote right now I would vote either JeeJee or Jimtudor.
As I looked at the topic just before posting I notice that Zeks has posted his candidacy. I haven't had time to read it much, so no comments on it from me yet.
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One other quick comment (brought up by iLoveKTF): a medic protection list might make sense; I'm assuming here that the mafia as a whole is better at determining who the dangerous players in the game are than individual medics are. Couple this with the inactivity we've seen from a lot of players so far and we'll be able to at least lessen the chance of our admittedly few good contributors biting the dust right away. We have three medics, so somewhere around six players seems the right number to put on a potential list: few enough that the players on the list get some protection that the mafia has to take into account, but not so few that the mafia will just ignore the list entirely and hit only players not on the list.
If people start coming out of the woodwork tomorrow this might change. I'll think about who should go on the list tomorrow, and if we agree that the list is a good idea then I'll post my ideas.
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CANDIDATES: If it looks like there is any chance at all that you may end up as Mayor, make sure you send me your choice for the Day 1 lynch prior to the end of Day 1. Day 1 will end Tuesday night, probably between 8 pm and 12 midnight. If you think you might not be able to PM late tomorrow, send me your PM early and you can change it before Day 1 ends if you are able to make it back online. We don't want to have to wait half a day for someone to wake up or something so we can move to the night phase. In fact, why don't we say that your first lynch choice is due by 8PM PST Tuesday, May 19, and if I don't have your choice by the time I'm ready to post Night 1 I will choose the lynch myself by a super-secret method you might not like.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
I like how most of you are trying to lay out plans, especially crate's idea. However I think we should worry about the election first, then get down to the business of killing and saving those in need. Planning ahead is good though 
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Just a thought, if we get a succesful towny identification through a medic save, could the medic saving him go ahead and role claim, and then call for another medic to protect him, while he continues to protect the player he saved? Could be a way to start forming a town hall and swing the game against the reds.
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I do not know what to post, but since everyone is saying how much random people should post I shall give it a shot and perhaps something magical will come out of my mouth (although, it's too bad it won't do anyone any good because no one will hear it :D). What follows is mostly [probably] meaningless, but will perhaps someone feels like reading another post.
Since this is my first game ever, I don't feel like I have anything too important to contribute and can probably be led fairly easily. I will make a conscious effort to avoid bandwagoning, although I will also have to make sure I don't not bandwagon just for the sake of not bandwagoning (if you catch my drift). That said, I hope I don't make a fool of myself and do something I will look back on and think "That was incredibly stupid."
Anyway, the point of this post was to post. Perhaps someday I'll say something useful, but unless I said something deep and profound which somehow translated into this post subconsciously (which would be great) I do not have anything more to say.
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Let me begin with saying my posts will normally be spread out, and I'll try and be as brief but informative as possible in them, unlike my posts this morning. I've got 3 broken fingers so typing is never fun. Also know that, even though I'm east coast USA, I'm pretty much a night owl. I'll often post after midnight est.
Anyways, onto the game.
I voted for jimtudor as my first choice because I felt he brought a bit more to the table than Shikyo/iLoveKTF. iLoveKTF's only thing was lynching an inactive, no end game plan, and Shikyo's inexperience didn't play to my fancy. Shikyo is the stronger of the two for sure, but compared to jimtudor, with the minimal complete inactivity we have thus far, I think clue analysis is going to be a required skill, and Shikyo even admitted that this wasn't his strong point. It's not mine either, but I'm not running for mayor/sheriff.
Due to the influx of new candidates, I'm going to change to abstaining until I see more info.
We do have a few inactives, and some who voted. I'd like to see them post why they did.
RaYnE - why did you vote for Shikyo? You haven't echoed off in here yet, so I'm definitely curious. Looks like bandwagoning here, but it could be honest.
epicdoom - why abstain right off the bat? Again, you have yet to sound off in here, but this strikes me as peculiar.
Shikyo, I hate to echo everyone, but the seemingly bandwagon voting so far does raise some suspicions, as you probably even realized. You do seem to have a good grasp of things, but you've also resorted to insulting the one person who raised a question about you. Not the way to win the hearts of people. We should be objective about everyone we are considering for elected offices, these hold a lot of power.
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First of all it's nice to wake up and see a lot of good usefull posts have been made. Reading through the thread quickly this in particular stood out to me:
On May 19 2009 13:29 Jayme wrote:
I'll address this right now.
What clues?
The only thing I have seen even remotely linked to me is the word "creep" and my pet zergling icon. I don't need to remind you that we have at least 8 players with zerg icons playing this game. You will be rather hard pressed to validate anything based solely on that.
The clue pointing towards Jayme has ben quoted and written several times, and it is the following done by softer which i personally think is a pretty good start of day 1 clues.
On May 18 2009 20:32 softer wrote:
But we have to start somewhere and get some discussion going. The wording "eerily crepuscular" stood out to me. The cat is a crepuscular animal, and Jayme has a picture of a cat thats definitely eerie in his profile.
In short crepuscular animal is a animal most active at dawn and dusk like cats, and eerie has something to do with fear.
_____________________________________________________________________________
As for the general discussion in the thread i can see i am probably one of those who haven't explained my vote other then with a brief sentence.
But at the time i voted Shikyo seemed like the most serious and active candidate, and in general he tried to start some good and contructive discussion going which is always usefull, and the only thing i found a little fishy about him to begin with was his opening post being to serious if that's possible. But seeing how he continued posting i think he is the best chioce for now.
About the plans people have come up with, i don't like the medic plan that much, as it simply seems to risky to me. Because i assume the protected and the medic doesn't get the message until the day post goes up, and if the mafia is quick to notice a missed hit, they can claim to have protected the person, who wasn't killed by their hit.
There's of course always the chance they have hit a vet but i still think this is to much of a risk, and we should forget that idea for now, as we would also get a medic stuck on protecting another medic leaving the rest of the town open to hits, as mafia will know two medics are protecting eachother.
The vigi plan is probably the best way to make sure we get a town circle centered arround a blue, all we have to do is just have the vigi call out his hit, link the clues on the hit to him (If he doesn't hit mafia that is), and we should have a guy, we can trust. There is of course always the chance the mafia will claim to be the vigi, but that would be stupid of them considering they'll then have to argue with another about who the clues point to, and raise a ton of suspicion to themselves.
I will come back later with more once i have fully awoken from my slumber, but these are just my general thoughts about what has happened so far.
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All right, good morning. Time to read through this, even if, sadly, there isn't much.
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On May 19 2009 11:46 Foolishness wrote:
Shikyo, just because I've only made a few posts has nothing to do with you getting elected or acting suspicious. Just because you have made the most posts doesn't make you a winner.
With that being said, I am running for sheriff.
Why? Because I am not Shikyo.
So far this game, Shikyo has done nothing but post a lot and write a very charismatic ballot. He has run uncontested, and none of the other candidates are willing to step up against him. There has hardly been any debate between him and the other candidates. We cannot let him gain control of an office position so easily like this.
There are many suspicious activities going on with his office running. He labeled out the scenario how mafia get 6 votes, and he chooses to obstain his vote, thereby gaining his chance of him getting into office. It is necessary to point out how the mafia would probably not all vote for the same person, but in the scenario where one person is dominating they clearly would.
Shikyo has been obtaining votes from the most random of people. People who have not backed up their reasoning and people who have not voted at all. In one case, someone clearly stated that they were voting for one of the other candidates (although this was prior to Shikyo's running), but then voted for Shikyo without saying a word about it (and then latter ignored this fact when he finally did post).
Shikyo has seemed like a good candidate until I raised possible suspicion about him. I clearly was not accusing him of anything, I just wanted to hear what he had to say. Instead he retorted almost angerily at me, implying that my posts meant nothing since I have only posted a few times. It is only natural for me to want to make sure we as a town are electing the best people into office. Someone who goes on the defensive when asked why the situation does not add up is not the person we want in office.
However I do not possess any qualities that would make me good candidate other than I am not Shikyo. This would be my first mafia game on TL, and none of you have any information about me. But this is all irrelevant. You can cast your vote and put a suspicious person into office or put your vote to better use. Just because he posts a lot does not make him the best choice.
You can vote for Shikyo and secure the fact that there will be suspicious happenings, or you can vote for me to ensure the town a victory. Even if you don't want to vote for me, pick someone else besides Shikyo.
Angrily? You should see me angry, since I was completely calm. Tired? That's possible.
It had nothing to do with your little amount of posts. It has something to do with you being against lynching inactives, which by itself is generally bad play and a bad train of thought, especially early on when there isn't much to go by. Even if it might not be the most desirable play, being against it isn't something any townie should do. If there are no good targets, inactives should be the first to go.
Actually, there's nothing wrong with the amount of posts you made, and I thought what I meant was apparent from my post. I guess not, but I hope I managed to clarify this. Defensive? What... You can always find suspicion anywhere you wish, so I guess I was defensive(which I wasn't), and that's suspicious to you.
But why have you, always, been so strongly against me? You keep talking about my flaws and suspicious behavior, but basically back that up with me being defensive without pinpointing it more accurately.
Now what I'm curious about is if you have ever thought of this scenario: You're a mafia who thinks I am a good mayor candidate, so you try to stop people from voting me and cast suspicion on me, in addition with advocating incorrect play like avoiding lynching mafia. Even though I don't exactly believe this right now, it all seems to make sense to me if that indeed is the case. As you can see, It's not that difficult to make anyone seem suspicious, if you want them to. If you think of this as being defensive, maybe that's the kind of a person I am, then.
I definitely would prefer people to post something as they vote and give some kind of a reasoning for their vote when they indeed do vote. However, there's really not much you can do about it besides openly asking them why they were voting for who they were.
On May 19 2009 14:27 crate wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 10:42 JeeJee wrote:
Also keep in mind, if a medic successfully protects X, this doesn't say anything about X's innocence. Sure, it's likely that X is a townie-aligned role that was hit by mafia, but it's also possible that it was a mafia hit by a vigi. too much stuff
What a gigantic post...
Hmmm... if a vigi announces their hit in the thread and then hits a green or blue, nothing happens, no one sends them any roles, and they'll essentially be a normal townie, and thus not important for mafia to kill. If vigi hits a red, then he'd become the confirmed townie. There's just the problem of mafia killing him the same night, right after he kills the red... So maybe this plan needs some work. Maybe if he just announced he was going to hit someone that night, and if a red is hit, we should still know who that was. That way mafia doesn't know if he's worth lynching, and his vigi hit would still get through, assuming he sent it before announcing, and assuming that the earlier an action is sent, the more priority it gets. Also, vigis should be hitting only prime suspects, so I doubt that a medic would protect anyone they were supposed to hit. I'm still kind of unsure about this, though.
About multiple people claiming to have saved A, we don't necessarily have to kill all those people. I'm sure we could use some behavioral analysis or even clue analysis to narrow it down, and maybe have DTs check each of them rather than just killing everyone.
Now, with zeks joining the running for office as well, we finally have quite a few people running for office. I hope I'll be able to decide for someone to vote for today.
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Just finished checking up on the thread, unfortunately I have finals in an hour. So I don't have the time right now to reply to Shikyo. Will do so when I get back.
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On May 19 2009 19:27 Shikyo wrote:
Now what I'm curious about is if you have ever thought of this scenario: You're a mafia who thinks I am a good mayor candidate, so you try to stop people from voting me and cast suspicion on me, in addition with advocating incorrect play like avoiding lynching mafia. Even though I don't exactly believe this right now, it all seems to make sense to me if that indeed is the case. As you can see, It's not that difficult to make anyone seem suspicious, if you want them to. If you think of this as being defensive, maybe that's the kind of a person I am, then.
I don't think you're being defensive, I got the same feeling when I read his post as well. I think it's likely that he is mafia, as it would be a very weird way to play for a townie.
Shikyo wrote:
Hmmm... if a vigi announces their hit in the thread and then hits a green or blue, nothing happens, no one sends them any roles, and they'll essentially be a normal townie, and thus not important for mafia to kill. If vigi hits a red, then he'd become the confirmed townie. There's just the problem of mafia killing him the same night, right after he kills the red... So maybe this plan needs some work. Maybe if he just announced he was going to hit someone that night, and if a red is hit, we should still know who that was. That way mafia doesn't know if he's worth lynching, and his vigi hit would still get through, assuming he sent it before announcing, and assuming that the earlier an action is sent, the more priority it gets. Also, vigis should be hitting only prime suspects, so I doubt that a medic would protect anyone they were supposed to hit. I'm still kind of unsure about this, though.
I don't think this is the best way to do it. In my opinion it would be better to do it like Fishball did in Mafia V, where the Vigi announces his hit to 3-4 people via PM, the people he sees as most likely being blue/green. There is a SMALL chance that he will PM a mafia, but atleast the chances are smaller than if he were to post it openly in the thread, where the mafia WILL know who he is hitting, and he will be taken down the same night. After the hit is done, the Vigi can go public and call for support from the ones he PM-ed before the hit was done. This should be enough to warrant public trust, as long as the target that he hit was a mafia (since the mafia can't hit each other).
There is one problem with this plan too, though, which is the fact that the mafia can forge this event by taking out a townie and roleclaiming Vigi, by using the support of other mafia's to confirm their story. I don't think this is very likely though, as all it takes is one rolecheck from a DT on the "vigi" to bust their cover, then all the supporters of the fake vigi would be revealed as well.
There is also the possibility that a mafia roleclaims as vigi in PM to townies, hits a green/blue, and tries to gain their support the following day, to act as a confirmed townie.
So the way I see it there are only two ways to do this:
1) The vigi claims his target in PM the night before, and hits a red, this is not something mafia can do, so he can be trusted. As long as the people noticed are not mafia, he should be safe (unless the mafia randomly selects the vigi as their target that night), and can be placed in jail the night after.
2) The vigi claims his target in PM, but hits a green/blue. This scenario will be harder, since we will need a rolecheck on the vigi to confirm his status. How will the DT alert people? He can always convey his message via someone he has rolechecked before, but how can we trust them when they say the message comes from a DT? I'm lost.
The vigi better hit a red. That would make things that much easier. I think the best we can do is to get 1 or 2 prime suspects before night 2, urge the vigi's to take him/them out, and pray that they are mafia. If we wait any longer there's an increasing chance we won't have any vigi's left to use, so we better work fast in the clue/behavior section.
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On May 19 2009 17:12 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote:
I've got 3 broken fingers so typing is never fun.
It's a well known fact mafia breaks fingers as punishment. GET A ROPE ITS LYNCHING TIME.
Haha jk dude.
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Shikyo wrote:
Hmmm... if a vigi announces their hit in the thread and then hits a green or blue, nothing happens, no one sends them any roles, and they'll essentially be a normal townie, and thus not important for mafia to kill. If vigi hits a red, then he'd become the confirmed townie. There's just the problem of mafia killing him the same night, right after he kills the red... So maybe this plan needs some work. Maybe if he just announced he was going to hit someone that night, and if a red is hit, we should still know who that was. That way mafia doesn't know if he's worth lynching, and his vigi hit would still get through, assuming he sent it before announcing, and assuming that the earlier an action is sent, the more priority it gets. Also, vigis should be hitting only prime suspects, so I doubt that a medic would protect anyone they were supposed to hit. I'm still kind of unsure about this, though.
I think the biggest problem with this is, if the vigi doesn't hit a red, we're screwed. We used our vigi and then we also didn't get a confirmed townie, and we really can't without using rolechecks and dts. Every plan is going to have holes, we just need to figure out how to patch them up.
Also, I think Zeks is a solid platform for mayor, especially with Shikyo being a virtual shoe-in for Sheriff.
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Well, time's-a-tickin, we're still missing a fair amount of votes, but let's talk a little bit about the roles, and how they should act for the next little while.
First up, everyone's expected to vote. That's obvious. If you haven't voted, and are reading this, go and vote right now, even if it's just to abstain.
Now let's go down the list.
First up, about half this game is townies. When I started, I used to dislike the townie role, because of "damn i don't have any powers, noo", but also because a lot of the earlier games had silly self-confirming roles like elder which left townies out of the loop. That is, unless you put effort in. Townie is my favorite role now, for several reasons. First up, and most relevant to this game, it's quite a bit easier to start learning. You can be as outspoken as you like, without having to worry "oh, would this post hint i'm a medic/dt/vigi? maybe i shouldn't post. crap why am i being lynched for being inactive?? maybe i should roleclaim? wait they're lynching me anyway, WTF". Nevermind choosing whether and who to hit/prot/check. Seriously, if you're a townie, start posting everything you're thinking of, any links you can see. You'll be getting PMs from people who agree or disagree, chat with them, based on the impression they make, you may conclude whether they're town-aligned or not, etc. It's significantly easier to analyze when you have someone to bounce ideas off of. Likewise, if you find someone in the thread that comes off as an innocent, or guilty, PM them, see how they react, etc. Experiment, it's a great learning experience! The key is to start and continue posting. This actually also applies to other roles too.
Next up, we have 2 detectives (aka DTs). Let's look at the role description:
Detective
You are a super sleuth. Once per night phase, you may PM me to ask one of the following, which I will answer:
1. Does X contain a clue? (Where X is part of a Day post) (called a "Clue Check")
2. Does X contain a clue that points to Y? (Where X is part of a Day post and Y is a player's name) (called a "Clue Check")
3. What is Y's role? (Where Y is a player's role) (called a "Role Check")
X can be no larger than one sentence.
A Role Check cannot be done during Night 1. Only 3 Role Checks may be performed per DT per game. The 3rd Role Check cannot be done before Night 5.
What should you do during night 1? First of all, you should act. You have unlimited clue checks (c/c1 and c/c2), and can start during night 1. You also don't have to decide whether to rolecheck (r/c) someone , since you don't have that option. So, pick something that stands out to you, give it a shot. Chances are, you won't get much, given that it's day 1. What are the outcomes?
You do c/c1 or c/c2 and you miss. Tough luck, try again next night.
You do c/c1 and you hit. This is interesting. But probably not worth going indepth about.
If you happen to strike gold with c/c2, this is probably your hardest decision. On one hand, you've nailed a mafia. However, telling us pretty much compromises you in every possible way. First of all, if you post in the thread during day saying "i'm a DT, i c/c2'd this guy and he came up red" (since he can't be vig until night2), we have no choice but to lynch you. Saccing a DT for a mafia? Early on, not the greatest of trades. Of course, that also means if you flip DT, a vigi can claim that they will hit the mafia the next night, we will see the mafia die and get a confirmed townie, incarc, and have something going. Now the trade is a DT for a mafia and another confirmed townie, plus a medic web for the next night. A little more interesting. I would like more feedback on this course of action (this assumes day1/2, not any later days. Those days have the added complication of your c/c2 revealing a vigi instead of a mafia).
If you say this during night, first of all, don't. If you mention this during the night, it only tells the mafia your role, and really tells us nothing. Our medics have no reason to protect you, we gain nothing from the info since vigis can't hit night1. So don't.
For the next nights, how should you structure your R/C's? You have 3 of them, that's actually a lot. Most mafia games don't last too many nights. Just don't waste this on any elected officials (maybe pyrr might let this slide given that we have beginner DTs) because they would just show up as mayor or sheriff. However, I wouldn't just go ahead and use them all up as fast as possible. But, you probably should r/c someone on night 2 or 3. If you hit a townie-aligned role, remember that's no real reason to give away your role. In fact, you never really have a reason to give away any role. If you think it'll help them trusting you though, could be worth it (especially if your r/c reveals another DT)
Next, we got 3 medics. Let's look at the description.
Medic (From Mafia VIII rule writers)
You have the ability to prevent one hit on a player of your choice during the night. Each paramedic can only stop one hit and as such if the number of mafia is greater than the number of paramedics on a player then that player will die. You will know if you saved the person. The person will know if he was saved. If you are protecting a veteran, and they are hit, your ability supercedes theirs. You cannot protect yourself. You can protect people starting Night 1.
This is by far the hardest role to play well. Let's break it down, first of all, you can and should act every night. Who should you prot after the elections? I would read through the thread from a mafia's point of view. Ask yourself -- who would you like to die? Who seems like a good candidate to be hit? Make a list, order them by likelyhood of being hit. Then prot someone you like, base it on your gut feeling, or sense of star, or whatever else. Night 1 prots are very hard, but they can also be very critical.
What should you do during the following day? 2 outcomes:
Your target didn't get hit. That's good and bad. Good because he was a target that's valuable to town and desirable for mafia to kill (hopefully that's why you decided to prot him), and he lived. Bad because you didn't decrease mafia KP for the night. Either way, don't sweat, start thinking about the next night.
Your target did get hit. During night 1, you have a confirmed innocent. Vigis cannot hit during night 1, and mafia may not hit each other, so you're 100% safe in chatting with them. You don't have to necessarily tell them your role (although if you PM them out of the blue (pun intended) with confidence, I'm sure they will figure it out anyway), but use them as another person to bounce ideas off of, knowing that their interests and yours are aligned.
Next, we have 2 vigilantes (aka vigis). Here's the description
Vigilante (Thanks to Mafia VII rule writers)
You may, only once during the game, kill a player of your choice during the night. A clue will be left behind just like a mafia killing pointing to you. If your hit overlaps with mafia or another vigilante then I will cancel it and they will kill the person instead. In the case of overlapping vigilantes, the hit that was sent first is the one that goes through. In both cases you will not know who caused your hit to be canceled and you will be able to use your hit anytime after that during the game. You may not use this ability on Night 1. Medic protection may block your hit, and, if it does, you will have used your killing ability.
You can't hit during night1, so sit tight (this doesn't mean sit quiet, like I said earlier, each and every single one of you should be active in the thread).
We also have one veteran (aka vet). You're a townie, really. Just be active, be outspoken, chat with people in and out of the thread. What happens if you get hit? First of all, should you say something? It's a harder decision than it may seem, because think of it from mafia's point of view: they don't know if you're a vet or were protted by medic. So they don't know what happens if they hit you again -- do they waste another hit because you're medic'd, should they stack hits? But then they might waste the stacked hits if you were just a vet. It keeps the mafia guessing, and it's good. On the other hand, if we're trying to reconstruct a kill list, this could be a critical piece of info (a piece of info also easily faked by mafia of course, so limited in its use). Use your judgment, but i wouldn't go around saying that you were hit just yet.
A note on millers: We got 2 of them. You don't know who you are, you just see yourselves as townie. I can't give any advice to you specifically, for obvious reasons. However, this is a note more to the DTs. Keep in mind that millers do exist. r/c'ing someone and flipping mafia isn't guaranteed to make them mafia. Millers are on town's side.
A note on bodyguards (aka BGs): after election, you might get randomly awarded a BG role if you're a townie. Let's look at the description.
Bodyguard
Bodyguards are the protectors of the elected roles. As long as they remain alive the Mayor and Sheriff are both immune to all hits during the night. Bodyguards will not know who each other are, the elected roles will not know who they are, and they will be chosen from Townies after the Mayor chooses who to lynch. You show up as Townie for all Rolechecks.
You won't get a list of BGs, the elected officials won't get a list of BGs, you're on your own. You're now a more critical townie but this does not mean you should suddenly be quiet especially if you were active before. That's one of the worst things you can do (being quiet is one of the worst things anyone can do, aside from like, a vigi hitting a medic that would've protted a DT but didn't). You don't really have any power decisions to make, and I wouldn't alter any way you were playing at all.
And finally, we have the 6 mafias and their godfather, for a total of 7 non-town aligned roles. It's fairly easy to play as red, just PM me and mention you're mafia. Obviously I'm going to require proof, and the only way I can think of is to list your teammates (if you think of another way, go for it).
And I guess I will be just as active as everyone else (probably more) after all. TL isn't blocked at work :-) So scratch my earlier statement about that, and perhaps I might become a better candidate in your eyes.
Remember, follow the gold chain of justice to town victory! Vote Now!
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Hi guys, just chiming in here so I don't get killed for inactiveness. This is my first mafia game besides playing with about 15 friends around 2 years ago so I'm probably not going to be saying anything too profound. I haven't really been swayed by any of the potential sheriff's speech's so far, they sound reasonably intelligent but don't state anything that's beyond just general knowledge or logic. If I dunno who to vote for should I just abstain or should I take a shot in the dark?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7507/campaigny.jpg)
