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On February 12 2009 21:07 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 21:06 jpunshon wrote:On February 12 2009 21:02 IdrA wrote: not really, same base point. no one would question that free is better than me, no one would question that im better than him. if i cant make a point about free because hes better than me, he cant make a point about me cuz im better than him. lol i would question that you are better than him. by him i meant the random forum newbie, not free i assume you know that but just making it clear
yeah i know. i was just being lame
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The only thing is i am TIRED of seeing people who try to achieve something in this game(like you), talking bullshit about players who are 100 times better then himself..
I wouldnt care if a noone would say free sux, but i care if someone like you, who would actually NEED to learn to respect other FELLOW PROGAMERS , trash talks here, on the forums how a player needs to learn to micro. Go to his house, tell him that.. I thought they would teach you some respect down there..
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I think bm players are interesting, and that we could use a few more in the pro scene. It's too bad they restricted FBH's ceremonies with stupid rules.
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On February 12 2009 21:05 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 21:03 snapcrackle wrote:On February 12 2009 20:55 IdrA wrote:On February 12 2009 20:53 Samurai- wrote:On February 12 2009 20:49 IdrA wrote:On February 12 2009 20:47 benjammin wrote:On February 12 2009 20:46 IdrA wrote:On February 12 2009 20:45 benjammin wrote: wait what? forgg showing better micro than free? my world is collapsing not knowing when to not attack and getting lucky occasionally is not good micro he had pretty nice marine micro against those zealots was what i meant nono sorry i didnt word that well i mean its a misconception that free ever has good micro. hes just dumb enough to always attack, and he gets lucky once in a while and it looks like brilliance, when it fact hes terrible. Thats a complete bullshit.. Free is a great player, and maybe when you get on a television match and get stats like this -> http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/175_free[gm]/games (which you wont) , then maybe you could say something like that.. until then, go away. you cant beat the players i can, you havent accomplished whatever little i have therefore you dont know better than me and have no right to challenge my opinion pretty dumb argument isnt it? shut up i've become an accomplished player, i have a great record in starcraft, i've made it into the proscene in korea and done great for my team. but someone said i suck i micro therefore i do. i mean really idra... the argument goes both ways if someone says i suck in micro, explains why, and their explanation is valid then yes indeed. i didnt say free is bad because i say hes bad. i said hes bad because he made this bad decision, then explained why it was a bad decision, and the only person whos actually addressing that argument agreed with me.
But those things he did great you said it was LUCK ? Wow what an argument..
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On February 12 2009 21:09 snapcrackle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 21:06 darktreb wrote: You guys are seriously being retarded. Why is that basically anyone on this forum can criticize a progamer's play (we frequently call various progamers "terrible" or "awful") even though we understand very little about the game relative to them, and are probably frequently missing very important subtleties.
Yet, when Idra, who is waaaaaaaay more qualified to criticize a progamer's play does so, it's not ok because he's also a gamer? Seriously?
cuz everyone else doesn't know anything. when we see another gamer make a criticism we wanna know why and will flame at it. when FBH said savior sucks... he was flamed to hell. same thing. If a troll says it... he's ignored (or burned by the fanboys)
Look, I'm not a huge fan of Idra in general but this is really unfair. Basically here's what happened:
Idra: Free blindly moves Dragoons into minefields without knowing ahead of time how many there are. Two mines pop, he does hold position and gets lucky - everyone thinks his micro is amazing but he just got lucky and it was a terrible play.
Ok, so now here's what happens usually in the forums:
somebodyintheforums: <insert player> sucks, <timing was off/terrible micro/bad decision making/etc.>
I mean, come on.
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On a serious note Idra... Though your knowledge is probably more than mine. to say any progamers micro sucks is too harsh. Coming from a nobody then no one would care. To better explain this i'll draw two scenarios:
Mechanic A says about Mechanic B: You are aweful, you don't understand how to fix this error (when in fact Mechanic B does do it professionally)
Simpleton A says about Mechanic B: You are aweful, you don't understand how to fix this error. No one cares cuz Simpleton is merely ignorant.
You idra out of all of us aren't and shouldn't be ignorant. The rest have the right to be.
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On February 12 2009 21:10 Samurai- wrote: The only thing is i am TIRED of seeing people who try to achieve something in this game(like you), talking bullshit about players who are 100 times better then himself..
I wouldnt care if a noone would say free sux, but i care if someone like you, who would actually NEED to learn to respect other FELLOW PROGAMERS , trash talks here, on the forums how a player needs to learn to micro. Go to his house, tell him that.. I thought they would teach you some respect down there..
believe it or not, cj entus is not a finishing school i can see how you could make that mistake though
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On February 12 2009 21:13 Samurai- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 21:05 IdrA wrote:On February 12 2009 21:03 snapcrackle wrote:On February 12 2009 20:55 IdrA wrote:On February 12 2009 20:53 Samurai- wrote:On February 12 2009 20:49 IdrA wrote:On February 12 2009 20:47 benjammin wrote:On February 12 2009 20:46 IdrA wrote:On February 12 2009 20:45 benjammin wrote: wait what? forgg showing better micro than free? my world is collapsing not knowing when to not attack and getting lucky occasionally is not good micro he had pretty nice marine micro against those zealots was what i meant nono sorry i didnt word that well i mean its a misconception that free ever has good micro. hes just dumb enough to always attack, and he gets lucky once in a while and it looks like brilliance, when it fact hes terrible. Thats a complete bullshit.. Free is a great player, and maybe when you get on a television match and get stats like this -> http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/players/175_free[gm]/games (which you wont) , then maybe you could say something like that.. until then, go away. you cant beat the players i can, you havent accomplished whatever little i have therefore you dont know better than me and have no right to challenge my opinion pretty dumb argument isnt it? shut up i've become an accomplished player, i have a great record in starcraft, i've made it into the proscene in korea and done great for my team. but someone said i suck i micro therefore i do. i mean really idra... the argument goes both ways if someone says i suck in micro, explains why, and their explanation is valid then yes indeed. i didnt say free is bad because i say hes bad. i said hes bad because he made this bad decision, then explained why it was a bad decision, and the only person whos actually addressing that argument agreed with me. But those things he did great you said it was LUCK ? Wow what an argument.. did you not even bother to read my posts or something
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On February 12 2009 21:13 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 21:09 snapcrackle wrote:On February 12 2009 21:06 darktreb wrote: You guys are seriously being retarded. Why is that basically anyone on this forum can criticize a progamer's play (we frequently call various progamers "terrible" or "awful") even though we understand very little about the game relative to them, and are probably frequently missing very important subtleties.
Yet, when Idra, who is waaaaaaaay more qualified to criticize a progamer's play does so, it's not ok because he's also a gamer? Seriously?
cuz everyone else doesn't know anything. when we see another gamer make a criticism we wanna know why and will flame at it. when FBH said savior sucks... he was flamed to hell. same thing. If a troll says it... he's ignored (or burned by the fanboys) Look, I'm not a huge fan of Idra in general but this is really unfair. Basically here's what happened: Idra: Free blindly moves Dragoons into minefields without knowing ahead of time how many there are. Two mines pop, he does hold position and gets lucky - everyone thinks his micro is amazing but he just got lucky and it was a terrible play. Ok, so now here's what happens usually in the forums: somebodyintheforums: <insert player> sucks, <timing was off/terrible micro/bad decision making/etc.> I mean, come on. this part here is what got me... him calling a fellow proleaguer dumb
On February 12 2009 20:49 IdrA wrote: nono sorry i didnt word that well i mean its a misconception that free ever has good micro. hes just dumb enough to always attack, and he gets lucky once in a while and it looks like brilliance, when it fact hes terrible.
From anyone elses mouth it just goes away.. but seeing this was posted by Idra (a post which hardly unnoticed... was just shocking
Oh and also that he's terrible
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On February 12 2009 20:46 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 20:45 benjammin wrote: wait what? forgg showing better micro than free? my world is collapsing not knowing when to not attack and getting lucky occasionally is not good micro So you didnt say this..
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On February 12 2009 21:14 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 21:10 Samurai- wrote: The only thing is i am TIRED of seeing people who try to achieve something in this game(like you), talking bullshit about players who are 100 times better then himself..
I wouldnt care if a noone would say free sux, but i care if someone like you, who would actually NEED to learn to respect other FELLOW PROGAMERS , trash talks here, on the forums how a player needs to learn to micro. Go to his house, tell him that.. I thought they would teach you some respect down there..
believe it or not, cj entus is not a finishing school i can see how you could make that mistake though
lol Idra, sometimes you are classic.
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On February 12 2009 21:13 snapcrackle wrote: on a serious note... Though your knowledge is probably more than mine. to say any progamers micro sucks is too harsh. Coming from a nobody then no one would care. To better explain this i'll draw two scenarios:
Mechanic A says about Mechanic B: You are aweful, you don't understand how to fix this error (when in fact Mechanic B does do it professionally)
Simpleton A says about Mechanic B: You are aweful, you don't understand how to fix this error. No one cares cuz Simpleton is merely ignorant.
You idra out of all of us aren't and shouldn't be ignorant. The rest have the right to be obviously i dont mean hes a D- newbie but the fact is.... exactly what i said. that famous goon micro clip was actually bad micro with a fortunate turn. and that is pretty representative of his general play. theres a reason hes always been really inconsistant (before the whole 6 dragons medusa destination etc era). he makes attacks and takes gambles where most pros wouldnt take the risk. sometimes he looks brilliant, sometimes he looks horrible. i dont really think making bad decisions is something to be admired. buuuuuuut maybe im wrong.
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On February 12 2009 21:16 snapcrackle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 21:13 darktreb wrote:On February 12 2009 21:09 snapcrackle wrote:On February 12 2009 21:06 darktreb wrote: You guys are seriously being retarded. Why is that basically anyone on this forum can criticize a progamer's play (we frequently call various progamers "terrible" or "awful") even though we understand very little about the game relative to them, and are probably frequently missing very important subtleties.
Yet, when Idra, who is waaaaaaaay more qualified to criticize a progamer's play does so, it's not ok because he's also a gamer? Seriously?
cuz everyone else doesn't know anything. when we see another gamer make a criticism we wanna know why and will flame at it. when FBH said savior sucks... he was flamed to hell. same thing. If a troll says it... he's ignored (or burned by the fanboys) Look, I'm not a huge fan of Idra in general but this is really unfair. Basically here's what happened: Idra: Free blindly moves Dragoons into minefields without knowing ahead of time how many there are. Two mines pop, he does hold position and gets lucky - everyone thinks his micro is amazing but he just got lucky and it was a terrible play. Ok, so now here's what happens usually in the forums: somebodyintheforums: <insert player> sucks, <timing was off/terrible micro/bad decision making/etc.> I mean, come on. this part here is what got me... him calling a fellow proleaguer dumb Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 20:49 IdrA wrote: nono sorry i didnt word that well i mean its a misconception that free ever has good micro. hes just dumb enough to always attack, and he gets lucky once in a while and it looks like brilliance, when it fact hes terrible.
From anyone elses mouth it just goes away.. but seeing this was posted by Idra (a post which hardly unnoticed... was just shocking Oh and also that he's terrible ...................................... it is dumb to attack into multiple mines, all clumped, with 4 goons, with no observers. is there something im missing here?
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On February 12 2009 21:16 Samurai- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 20:46 IdrA wrote:On February 12 2009 20:45 benjammin wrote: wait what? forgg showing better micro than free? my world is collapsing not knowing when to not attack and getting lucky occasionally is not good micro So you didnt say this.. i did say that and in a later post i explained exactly what i meant and how it was luck and it was indeed luck
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On February 12 2009 21:17 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 21:13 snapcrackle wrote: on a serious note... Though your knowledge is probably more than mine. to say any progamers micro sucks is too harsh. Coming from a nobody then no one would care. To better explain this i'll draw two scenarios:
Mechanic A says about Mechanic B: You are aweful, you don't understand how to fix this error (when in fact Mechanic B does do it professionally)
Simpleton A says about Mechanic B: You are aweful, you don't understand how to fix this error. No one cares cuz Simpleton is merely ignorant.
You idra out of all of us aren't and shouldn't be ignorant. The rest have the right to be obviously i dont mean hes a D- newbie but the fact is.... exactly what i said. that famous goon micro clip was actually bad micro with a fortunate turn. and that is pretty representative of his general play. theres a reason hes always been really inconsistant (before the whole 6 dragons medusa destination etc era). he makes attacks and takes gambles where most pros wouldnt take the risk. sometimes he looks brilliant, sometimes he looks horrible. i dont really think making bad decisions is something to be admired. buuuuuuut maybe im wrong. this argument i like a lot better. I can read this and go ah yes... this makes sense. A lot of gamers gamble and sometimes it pays off... it shouldn't be called brilliance but rather luck (i notice this in games and get pissed off cuz it wasn't the play that was good just the luck at the moment). But to post extremely condescending words is something that shouldn't be stated (unless of course you have a grudge against the guy... in which fine go ahead cuz you hate him)
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9069 Posts
Idra vs rest of the world part 2
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On February 12 2009 21:20 snapcrackle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 21:17 IdrA wrote:On February 12 2009 21:13 snapcrackle wrote: on a serious note... Though your knowledge is probably more than mine. to say any progamers micro sucks is too harsh. Coming from a nobody then no one would care. To better explain this i'll draw two scenarios:
Mechanic A says about Mechanic B: You are aweful, you don't understand how to fix this error (when in fact Mechanic B does do it professionally)
Simpleton A says about Mechanic B: You are aweful, you don't understand how to fix this error. No one cares cuz Simpleton is merely ignorant.
You idra out of all of us aren't and shouldn't be ignorant. The rest have the right to be obviously i dont mean hes a D- newbie but the fact is.... exactly what i said. that famous goon micro clip was actually bad micro with a fortunate turn. and that is pretty representative of his general play. theres a reason hes always been really inconsistant (before the whole 6 dragons medusa destination etc era). he makes attacks and takes gambles where most pros wouldnt take the risk. sometimes he looks brilliant, sometimes he looks horrible. i dont really think making bad decisions is something to be admired. buuuuuuut maybe im wrong. this argument i like a lot better. I can read this and go ah yes... this makes sense. A lot of gamers gamble and sometimes it pays off... it shouldn't be called brilliance but rather luck (i notice this in games and get pissed off cuz it wasn't the play that was good just the luck at the moment). But to post extremely condescending words is something that shouldn't be stated (unless of course you have a grudge against the guy... in which fine go ahead cuz you hate him) never met him, hate his playstyle just cuz hes one of the cheesier protosses to make it big.
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On February 12 2009 21:16 snapcrackle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 21:13 darktreb wrote:On February 12 2009 21:09 snapcrackle wrote:On February 12 2009 21:06 darktreb wrote: You guys are seriously being retarded. Why is that basically anyone on this forum can criticize a progamer's play (we frequently call various progamers "terrible" or "awful") even though we understand very little about the game relative to them, and are probably frequently missing very important subtleties.
Yet, when Idra, who is waaaaaaaay more qualified to criticize a progamer's play does so, it's not ok because he's also a gamer? Seriously?
cuz everyone else doesn't know anything. when we see another gamer make a criticism we wanna know why and will flame at it. when FBH said savior sucks... he was flamed to hell. same thing. If a troll says it... he's ignored (or burned by the fanboys) Look, I'm not a huge fan of Idra in general but this is really unfair. Basically here's what happened: Idra: Free blindly moves Dragoons into minefields without knowing ahead of time how many there are. Two mines pop, he does hold position and gets lucky - everyone thinks his micro is amazing but he just got lucky and it was a terrible play. Ok, so now here's what happens usually in the forums: somebodyintheforums: <insert player> sucks, <timing was off/terrible micro/bad decision making/etc.> I mean, come on. this part here is what got me... him calling a fellow proleaguer dumb Show nested quote +On February 12 2009 20:49 IdrA wrote: nono sorry i didnt word that well i mean its a misconception that free ever has good micro. hes just dumb enough to always attack, and he gets lucky once in a while and it looks like brilliance, when it fact hes terrible.
From anyone elses mouth it just goes away.. but seeing this was posted by Idra (a post which hardly unnoticed... was just shocking
Well, that's a stupid double standard. When commentators (many of whom are former players/coaches) criticize players (whether it be Starcraft or the NBA or whatever) nobody says "well you're even worse so you shouldn't talk".
Now, I know Idra is not a commentator and it's not his job to criticize players. Yes, it would be all "nice and proper" if every B teamer just kissed the feet of every top pro. People always think "if you're not better than the other player, then you shouldn't talk until you are". But it's a really dumb thing to expect when you think about it.
Here's what it comes down to. Blindly moving Dragoons into an unknown number of mines is a terrible play at any level. Now is Free a terrible player? Of course not, he's almost certainly a top 10 player in the world right now. Does Idra really think Free is a "terrible" player? Of course not ... if anyone else said that we'd have applied this thing known as common sense and been like "oh that was just hyperbole" but since Idra said it everybody has to obsess over the exact wording.
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