|
Thanks for the discussions regarding the proposed changes. We hear your feedback and we want to make a few adjustments to the list of changes for the next balance update occurring on the week of December 18th.
Protoss
After reviewing the recent feedback, we are reducing the number of changes for Protoss. We still think the current Chrono Boost does help Protoss players reach a unit or upgrade too quickly, so we are going to reduce the strength of Chrono Boost but increase the duration of the ability. At the same time, the Oracle’s build time will be reduced as well since the effects of Chrono Boost were reduced.
Next, the Stalker strength will remain the same for now. We’ve heard feedback that nerfing it, in addition to Chrono Boost, may be too many changes for Protoss currently. We will continue to evaluate high level games going forward. For the Disruptor we are going to keep the cooldown the same as currently, but will be introducing a delay before each Purification Nova fires. This should give players more time to try evading or counter attacking the Disruptor when fighting at close range, as the damage will not be quite so sudden.
Nexus
Chrono Boost strength reduced from 100% to 50% and duration per cast increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
Oracle
Build time reduced from 43 to 37 seconds.
Disruptor
Purification Nova has a 1 second charge up time before launch.
Terran
We would still like to try increasing the Raven’s strength to make the unit more viable in matchups. Also, the Widow Mine’s build time will be reduced a bit to open up more opportunities for the unit.
Raven
Anti-Armor Missile lock time reduced from 2.14 to 1.43.
Anti-Armor Missile energy cost reduced from 125 to 100.
Interference Matrix range increased from 8 to 9.
Interference Matrix missile speed increased by 50%.
Widow Mine
Build time reduced from 28.6 to 21.4 seconds.
Multiplayer Maps
Blackpink LE – Added a jumpable platform to provide Terran players with an additional entry or exit for scouting.
Catalyst LE – Decals and doodads were added to help highlight the Reaper jump location near the main base.
Future Changes
The game is constantly changing as high level players develop new strategies. Some areas we are keeping in mind are Stalker/Disruptor strength vs Terran, overall effectiveness of Terran Bio, diversity of Protoss openings, Zerg overall strength, and Overlord transport strength vs Protoss.
Again, thanks to everyone for all the continued feedback and please let us know your thoughts. Lastly, since the end of the year is approaching, we want to wish everyone Happy Holidays and a wonderful New Years!
|
Pretty happy about these changes. The areas they are keeping an eye on seem spot on too.
|
Austria24416 Posts
Very glad they listened to the community on stalkers. Still think Raven abilities are just kind of bad and more could be done for the unit. Also think there's room for a marauder buff. But let's wait and see how chronoboost affects the state of the game, and then we'll go from there.
|
Blizzard, revert the marauder and widow mine to HOTS values and let the game develops for itself. GG.
|
While I understand the disruptor change, it'll just feel like you're playing with 1000 ping
|
I think a big part of the reason for current Terran struggles revolves around some less tangible things than simply Stalkers vs. Marines.
1. Early offense & defense:
- Terran cannot gain early map control in TvP or TvZ. It's not that they don't want to pay for the investment. There's nothing to invest in. Any unit that once gave map control (early BF hellions/reapers/bunker rushing) was nerfed to the point that it no longer can offer map control without an investment so high that losing it means losing the game.
- Bunker defense has been largely negated by Ravager/mass numbers of banelings/stalkers, etc.
- The Cyclone was originally designed to be a defensive powerhouse, but then when the redesign came around they were made into very expensive tanky/all around sorts of units. The biggest drawback to the current Cyclone is its cost vs. its utility, with a close second being its build time. This unit is a poor investment in most circumstances.
Point 1: Terran needs better options for map control and/or better early offensive capabilities.
There are 2 ideas I have for this.
A. Replace the bunker with a very slow mobile attack transport from the campaign. It could move, units could be loaded into it, it could be repairable and even gain the upgrade from the engineering bay for more units or better armor, making use out of a few different things that have very little utility right now. This would also allow for some micro capability against Ravagers.
B. Allow multiple SCV's to build a building simultaneously(up to 3 or something), so that Terran could leverage the early game for offensive and not just macro purposes.
2. Terran lacks Harassment you can believe in:
There is without a doubt no unit that is comparable in the Terran arsenal to the risk vs. reward the Protoss can get out of the Oracle and Zerg can get out of Zerglings. The marine was once a unit that could hold its own in packs against a lot of different things. That is not the case anymore. Consider the harass units that have been nerfed for Terran in the past:
- Widow mine nerf
- Liberator nerf/queen buff
- Banshee/queen buff
- Raven redesign
- MMM drops have been dramatically effected by the economy changes in LOTV. The acceleration to the midgame means much more creep/overlords/observers/pheonixes, etc., to take map control. Drops came in at a time in the past where Terran could begin the drop phase and leverage it for a win. More common at this point is losing a medivac or two for nothing and being dramatically behind because of it. For instance, opening 2-1-1 in HOTS gave you 16 marines and 2 medivacs vs. a 2 base zerg with around 40-45 drones that could have 2 base muta coming out soon. Opening 2-1-1 in LOTV gives you 16 marines vs. a Zerg with 55-60 drones and 5-6 queens and about 30 zerglings to hold you off with.
Point 2: Terran needs reliable harassment. Some of these units were problematic (Liberator), but nerfing each one down to its current state seems to have left Terran without reliable harassment. Not only does this mean you need more apm to accomplish damage and convert it into a reasonable push, it means most games will have little to no action for the first 6 or 8 minutes. People have complained about turtling with mech, but most of the turtling I see going on in SC2 right now is Zergs building 70 drones and then massing hydras.
Here are some ideas for this:
A. Retool the Cyclone a bit, increasing its speed to move with Hellions so that hellions are not absolutely shut down by armored units. This would require a lowering of the Cyclone's hit points and cost, as well as its build time.
B. Give Reapers a speed upgrade (75/75 cost or so) so that they equal Zerglings with speed. The micro battles would still be phenomenal, but battles could be won by micro rather than simply by bombs.
C. Give Reapers an upgrade to be able to attack air (75/75 cost or so)so that Hellion/Reaper openings are feasible and the game simply doesn't end if Zerg builds some Mutas or Protoss builds an Oracle.
D. Give the new Ghost, or an upgraded Reaper the ability to plant a bomb that would destroy or dramatically damage an opponent's tech building so that the explosion followed by a Reaper attack could flip the game on its side or something.
On the Current Changes:
I write all this because I don't think the issue with Terran is going to be solved by the current changes on Ravens or Widow mines. And I don't think the answer lies in nerfing Stalkers.
A. The Raven - The intangible issue with the Raven is that while you're making it you're not making Medivacs or Vikings or Liberators or Banshees, and nothing they are proposing is anywhere near the utility of those units. Moving the current Raven to the Factory is an idea that would shake things up.
B. Widow Mines - I understand the design dilemma behind Widow Mines, but anyone who has ever said "they're too much of a set it and forget it type unit" is forgetting that it's a land mine. The only future I see for the Widow Mine is even farther in the direction they're currently going. In its current design it is a single shot unit. It will shoot, then it will die. Reduce its supply cost, damage, and resource cost and make it a pure map control unit that needs to operate in groups. It no longer functions as any sort of effective harassment unit.
If anything TvP is going to continue to be extremely volatile while Zerg already has Early, Mid, and Late Game options for Offense, Defense, and Harassment, in addition to units that have been reworked to be reliable and flexible for the various stages of the game.
|
Finally they look the overlord drop...
|
I had just posted this post to the previous community update here, so respond to this one as I'm assuming this is where the discussion will move. 
|
>the widow mine has a non-integer build time
absolutely disgusting
|
Changes look like they will be good. Now if only blizzard would fix the damn issue where players cannot visibly see units/buildings being highlighted after being selected with the mouse that'd be great.
|
|
|
Still no Zerg changes despite PvZ being the most imbalanced match up in favor of Zerg...
|
Glad they wont touch the stalker, its always fun to see monobattles.
|
Hope they make changes to overlord drop their are some really stupid all ins zerg can do atm with droplords that are really hard to stop and pretty simple to execute. Other then that changes seem pretty good I would also recommend maybe decreasing the energy cost of halluncation to allow protoss to have a little bit better scouting in the early game in pvp and pvz.
|
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job
|
On December 15 2017 06:24 zelevin wrote:
>the widow mine has a non-integer build time
absolutely disgusting
Basically everything has non-integer build time since the engine still uses Blizzard time. In Blizzard time it translates to 'Build time reduced from 40 to 30 seconds'.
|
What's wrong with OL drops vs protoss?
|
Ling drops are Zerg's only way to put on early pressure without going allin. It shouldn't be nerfed.
|
On December 15 2017 06:23 Ransomstarcraft wrote:
I think a big part of the reason for current Terran struggles revolves around some less tangible things than simply Stalkers vs. Marines.
1. Early offense & defense:
- Terran cannot gain early map control in TvP or TvZ. It's not that they don't want to pay for the investment. There's nothing to invest in. Any unit that once gave map control (early BF hellions/reapers/bunker rushing) was nerfed to the point that it no longer can offer map control without an investment so high that losing it means losing the game.
- Bunker defense has been largely negated by Ravager/mass numbers of banelings/stalkers, etc.
- The Cyclone was originally designed to be a defensive powerhouse, but then when the redesign came around they were made into very expensive tanky/all around sorts of units. The biggest drawback to the current Cyclone is its cost vs. its utility, with a close second being its build time. This unit is a poor investment in most circumstances.
Point 1: Terran needs better options for map control and/or better early offensive capabilities.
There are 2 ideas I have for this.
A. Replace the bunker with a very slow mobile attack transport from the campaign. It could move, units could be loaded into it, it could be repairable and even gain the upgrade from the engineering bay for more units or better armor, making use out of a few different things that have very little utility right now. This would also allow for some micro capability against Ravagers.
B. Allow multiple SCV's to build a building simultaneously(up to 3 or something), so that Terran could leverage the early game for offensive and not just macro purposes.
2. Terran lacks Harassment you can believe in:
There is without a doubt no unit that is comparable in the Terran arsenal to the risk vs. reward the Protoss can get out of the Oracle and Zerg can get out of Zerglings. The marine was once a unit that could hold its own in packs against a lot of different things. That is not the case anymore. Consider the harass units that have been nerfed for Terran in the past:
- Widow mine nerf
- Liberator nerf/queen buff
- Banshee/queen buff
- Raven redesign
- MMM drops have been dramatically effected by the economy changes in LOTV. The acceleration to the midgame means much more creep/overlords/observers/pheonixes, etc., to take map control. Drops came in at a time in the past where Terran could begin the drop phase and leverage it for a win. More common at this point is losing a medivac or two for nothing and being dramatically behind because of it. For instance, opening 2-1-1 in HOTS gave you 16 marines and 2 medivacs vs. a 2 base zerg with around 40-45 drones that could have 2 base muta coming out soon. Opening 2-1-1 in LOTV gives you 16 marines vs. a Zerg with 55-60 drones and 5-6 queens and about 30 zerglings to hold you off with.
Point 2: Terran needs reliable harassment. Some of these units were problematic (Liberator), but nerfing each one down to its current state seems to have left Terran without reliable harassment. Not only does this mean you need more apm to accomplish damage and convert it into a reasonable push, it means most games will have little to no action for the first 6 or 8 minutes. People have complained about turtling with mech, but most of the turtling I see going on in SC2 right now is Zergs building 70 drones and then massing hydras.
Here are some ideas for this:
A. Retool the Cyclone a bit, increasing its speed to move with Hellions so that hellions are not absolutely shut down by armored units. This would require a lowering of the Cyclone's hit points and cost, as well as its build time.
B. Give Reapers a speed upgrade (75/75 cost or so) so that they equal Zerglings with speed. The micro battles would still be phenomenal, but battles could be won by micro rather than simply by bombs.
C. Give Reapers an upgrade to be able to attack air (75/75 cost or so)so that Hellion/Reaper openings are feasible and the game simply doesn't end if Zerg builds some Mutas or Protoss builds an Oracle.
D. Give the new Ghost, or an upgraded Reaper the ability to plant a bomb that would destroy or dramatically damage an opponent's tech building so that the explosion followed by a Reaper attack could flip the game on its side or something.
I have no input about TvZ but I do think you are slightly off the mark in regards to TvP. TvP has evolved a lot in the last couple weeks and I actually think Terran has a lot of strength in the early game right now. Hellions, Reapers and Cyclones are all quite good in different ways (particular the former two, although Cyclones are actually so good against aggressive Protoss openings). Hellions run-bys are seriously hard to deal with right now when coupled with a drop in the main, and when it first started getting popular, it literally just killed 90% of Protoss players. Now that it's become more of a meta-standard, it's not quite as brutal but it still puts a lot of pressure on the Protoss player to defend well (Stats for example, really struggled against Gumiho). Multiple reapers is good again with the removal of Photon overcharge and there's a variety of builds such as 2 rax reaper into a macro game, or more aggressive proxy reaper openings. Cyclones have always been good in the very early game, and there are some cool builds popping up like Marauder/Cyclone, which seems pretty good (TY showcased this). Protoss has great map control once blink finishes, but before that it's actually quite a scary game atm with a bunch of aggressive options for terran. A lot of the very aggressive Protoss openers that were killing Terrans a lot when the patch first hit don't match up that well against the openings I just mentioned (the exception being the hellion one but having a factory early allows you to change it up and rush out a Cyclone).
I do agree that they need to at least revert the +shields nerf on the WM, and maybe revert the other nerfs. I think your proposed ideas are a bit ridiculous and would make Reapers way too good and very massable (which most people have been fighting against for the entirety of LotV)
|
On December 15 2017 06:20 StarscreamG1 wrote:
Blizzard, revert the marauder and widow mine to HOTS values and let the game develops for itself. GG.
The Widow Mine was broken.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM809rKWoAAiV0C.jpg)
