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On December 15 2017 06:50 BigRedDog wrote:
What's wrong with OL drops vs protoss?
They're really really strong. There's a ton of variation in ling drops (8 ling drop, 16 ling drop with ling flood, 3 baneling 2 ling drops, ling flood with queen drops), and many of them can cripple or kill Protoss outright as well as delay when Protoss can take a third. They also severely restrict Protoss openings, since there's only one or two Protoss openings that don't die to ling drops if scouted.
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i think Nony's speech about Stalkers really helped. I'm glad they are keeping Stalkers strong.
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I like that stalkers are staying strong but I doubt the chrono nerf will be enough to restore the balance. I expected them to nerf something else (collossus?) if they revert the stalker nerf.
Wm and marauder reverts would be good too.
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There really needs to be significant changes that actually help terran to help TvP. It is really sad that blizzard does not seem to agree with that
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On December 15 2017 06:13 ArtyK wrote:
Multiplayer Maps
Blackpink LE – Added a jumpable platform to provide Terran players with an additional entry or exit for scouting.
Catalyst LE – Decals and doodads were added to help highlight the Reaper jump location near the main base.
this is a very subtle but great change. thanks Mr. Blizzard.
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PROTOSS TEARS FINALLY WORK.
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ITT Terran whine after Protoss manages to barely avoid getting dad-dicked by Blizzard again.
In all seriousness, I think that the Chrono change will make early Protoss pressure a little less vicious allowing Terran to stabilize in the mid-game.
Has anyone else noticed an increase in Terran one-base all-ins? I can see why with so many Protoss cheeses out there; provides the T with defensive units if needed or a strong push otherwise.
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So IEM and GSL qualifiers will be played on this """balance""". I dont know what to say, there are 3 tournaments/year in Korea, and one will be unplayable.
I think some players are going to retire, GSL is important, and it will be played on an experimental patch.
I'm not whining or what so no warning please, but it's not really serious from blizzard.
With Warchest money, they could have done a sort of an online pre season between November and December , so it would have been easier to know what to change.
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On December 15 2017 07:23 DieuCure wrote:With Warchest money, they could have done a sort of an online pre season between November and December , so it would have been easier to know what to change.
They could have started it all the way back in September after WCS Montreal or October after GSL Super Tournament 2. Sure, you'd have lost out on WCS Global Finals players, but you can still see some of the issues without the top of the top players. (see Homestory Cup for an example)
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On December 15 2017 07:23 DieuCure wrote:
So IEM and GSL qualifiers will be played on this """balance""". I dont know what to say, there are 3 tournaments/year in Korea, and one will be unplayable.
let's "pay attention to outcomes" and see just how "unplayable" it is.
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Oracle
Build time reduced from 43 to 37 seconds.
Plz no, exactly zero sane, logical people think the oracle is a well designed unit, don't promote it's usage.
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Well, I thought the balance team had learned from its mistakes in 3.8 and was moving decisively to avoid prolonged imbalance this year. I had some hope that the game was nearing a better equilibrium under a better team.
I expected a quick followup regarding PvZ after PvT was fixed. Instead the balance team is opting to prolong the imbalance in both matchups. Incremental changes make sense if the meta is already close to stable. This meta is still uncertain at best after the major changes of 4.0 and the window before big tournaments start rolling is nearly gone. Major design changes like removing the MSC are all well and good, but only if the balance problems that inevitably accompany such major changes are addressed swiftly and firmly. Imo this is the exact opposite direction the balance team should be moving.
Rolling back the scale of changes is a move I'd approve of if GSL was currently in full swing, but the offseason is the time for drastic moves, not timid ones. Disappointed that the balance team seems to be making the same mistakes it did last year.
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On December 15 2017 07:41 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Plz no, exactly zero sane, logical people think the oracle is a well designed unit, don't promote it's usage.
Well call me insane and illogical, but I don't mind the oracle with it's reduced damage. Previously it killed things way too fast, but now that it doesn't evaporate workers and marines I think it's a reasonable unit with good utility.
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Yeah so stalker will still be 3 shotting marines and SCVs, and KR pro terran players will still be trying to blow up BLs with widow mine drops because terran late game anti air is so shitty.
But at least they're considering looking at bio's viability. Nothing about tempest still screwing mech play due to the lack of PDD, but hey, at least they're "looking into x" (tm).
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On December 15 2017 08:33 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 07:41 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Oracle
Build time reduced from 43 to 37 seconds. Plz no, exactly zero sane, logical people think the oracle is a well designed unit, don't promote it's usage. Well call me insane and illogical, but I don't mind the oracle with it's reduced damage. Previously it killed things way too fast, but now that it doesn't evaporate workers and marines I think it's a reasonable unit with good utility.
It still evaporates drones at the exact same speed it did before, but now you have to get your spore even faster. At least it isn't as massable as it used to be.
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On December 15 2017 08:40 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 08:33 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 07:41 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Oracle
Build time reduced from 43 to 37 seconds. Plz no, exactly zero sane, logical people think the oracle is a well designed unit, don't promote it's usage. Well call me insane and illogical, but I don't mind the oracle with it's reduced damage. Previously it killed things way too fast, but now that it doesn't evaporate workers and marines I think it's a reasonable unit with good utility. It still evaporates drones at the exact same speed it did before, but now you have to get your spore even faster. At least it isn't as massable as it used to be.
Oracle was 37 seconds for the entirety of lotv until 4.0, they put it at 43 because of the chrono buff but now that's it's 50% boost i don't think reverting the oracle build time is a problem, especially with the damage reduction which does make it worse vs hydras
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On December 15 2017 08:40 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 08:33 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 07:41 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Oracle
Build time reduced from 43 to 37 seconds. Plz no, exactly zero sane, logical people think the oracle is a well designed unit, don't promote it's usage. Well call me insane and illogical, but I don't mind the oracle with it's reduced damage. Previously it killed things way too fast, but now that it doesn't evaporate workers and marines I think it's a reasonable unit with good utility. It still evaporates drones at the exact same speed it did before, but now you have to get your spore even faster. At least it isn't as massable as it used to be.
You don't have to get the spore as fast due to the chrono nerf.
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I'm not a fan of raven as a spellcaster. Now if the raven was equipped with a double-gauss rifle that would rock.
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On December 15 2017 08:40 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 08:33 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 07:41 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Oracle
Build time reduced from 43 to 37 seconds. Plz no, exactly zero sane, logical people think the oracle is a well designed unit, don't promote it's usage. Well call me insane and illogical, but I don't mind the oracle with it's reduced damage. Previously it killed things way too fast, but now that it doesn't evaporate workers and marines I think it's a reasonable unit with good utility. It still evaporates drones at the exact same speed it did before, but now you have to get your spore even faster. At least it isn't as massable as it used to be.
Oh yeah true, I forgot they still 2 shots probes and drones. I thought they felt weaker when I last used them against P or Z, but I haven't been building them as often lately.
How do they fair 1v1 vs a queen at the moment?
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I fully agree that the previous proposal was overkill for protoss. The chrono change is major and will change a lot about how units will perform on the field. By adding a stalker nerf on top of that could possibly result in protoss being too weak again. If the stalker does need toning down it will be best to see after the chrono change and not before.
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EPT
